I though I'd start a new thread for this one.  I did a little searching and found a lot of research on "Spin Polarizing Particles" like Argon, Helium, and Neon using laser optical pumping.  A lot of the language is way too scientific for me, but I think I can read between the lines a little.  

I found this thesis pdf from 1984 testing lasers for polarizing gases:
http://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/15899
I haven't read the whole thing, most of it gives me a head ache.:P

What I find interesting is a lot of similarities with Stan's ideas.  Other research I've seen they use laser optical pumping combined with a magnetic field.  Except they use a real laser saying that circular polarized light is necessary.  The magnetic field is aligned in the same linear direction as the pumping laser.  They also talk about polarized gasses that lasts for hours, as a long time.  We know Stan said permanent, specifically many times.  What is missing from the Optical Pumping is Stans electron extraction circuit.  I'm starting to wonder, based on the new Zealand video where he shows the argon and iron lattice, that maybe it is the argon gas that is magnetically polarized, and the iron is neutral.  Using the electron extraction to take off enough electrons to allow argon to bond with iron, the iron would align with it on its own. Since it is a molecular bond, it is now permanently magnetized.  With iron in the lattice, you wouldn't have to worry about repulsion of two like poles as much either.   Kind of like how two north poles of neo magnets won't stick together, but if you put a piece of non magnetized steel between them, they will.  

So my bets on the key to magnetized gas are the electron extraction circuit.  But I've been wrong before. lol:) Maybe someone else can understand the thesis better than I can.

Nate

Quote from firepinto on January 31st, 2012, 07:19 PM

I though I'd start a new thread for this one.  I did a little searching and found a lot of research on "Spin Polarizing Particles" like Argon, Helium, and Neon using laser optical pumping.  A lot of the language is way too scientific for me, but I think I can read between the lines a little.  

I found this thesis pdf from 1984 testing lasers for polarizing gases:
http://scholarship.rice.edu/handle/1911/15899
I haven't read the whole thing, most of it gives me a head ache.:P

What I find interesting is a lot of similarities with Stan's ideas.  Other research I've seen they use laser optical pumping combined with a magnetic field.  Except they use a real laser saying that circular polarized light is necessary.  The magnetic field is aligned in the same linear direction as the pumping laser.  They also talk about polarized gasses that lasts for hours, as a long time.  We know Stan said permanent, specifically many times.  What is missing from the Optical Pumping is Stans electron extraction circuit.  I'm starting to wonder, based on the new Zealand video where he shows the argon and iron lattice, that maybe it is the argon gas that is magnetically polarized, and the iron is neutral.  Using the electron extraction to take off enough electrons to allow argon to bond with iron, the iron would align with it on its own. Since it is a molecular bond, it is now permanently magnetized.  With iron in the lattice, you wouldn't have to worry about repulsion of two like poles as much either.   Kind of like how two north poles of neo magnets won't stick together, but if you put a piece of non magnetized steel between them, they will.  

So my bets on the key to magnetized gas are the electron extraction circuit.  But I've been wrong before. lol:) Maybe someone else can understand the thesis better than I can.

Nate

nice work Nate!! post that theory in the EPG thread as well ???

good stuff!!!
~Russ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPY98s7Jie0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcZRQDZdLec

(darn, apparently I deleted an earlier post of mine editing this one. I forgot what I said in it! lol)

Another PDF: http://www.princeton.edu/~romalis/PHYS312/Optical_pumping.pdf

All of these experiments seem to run about the same.  Each one seems to drop another hint here and there:

Quote

Sample Cell. The sample cell contains in natural abundance rubidium and a nitrogen buffer gas. The
purpose of the buffer gas is two-fold. First, it slows the diffusion of atoms, so they spend more time
interacting with the laser beam. Second, nitrogen in particular can “quench” atoms in the excited state, so
they decay to the ground state without emitting a photon. This is important because spontaneous emittion
photons are unpolarized. They can be absorbed by other atoms and lead to depolarization.

This one also talks about using a modern laser and just adding a quarter wave plate (what ever that is) to make circular polarized light.  Seems to me these lab optical pump devices have similar components as the hydrogen gas gun, but with major differences in positioning, alignment of magnetic fields and lighting paths.  Of course the optical pump is missing the high voltage field and electron extraction.:cool:  

It's interesting that they use an RF field to pretty much "shake out" the photon from the gas.  Which causes the electron to fall to a lower valence.  We just need the RF frequency that "shakes out" the electron instead of the photon.:cool: What would happen to the photon after electrons are stripped?  Ejected as well?

NateAnother PDF: http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~phylabs/adv/ReprintsPDF/OPT%20Reprints/02-Optical%20Pumping%20-%20Bloom.pdf

[attachment=797]

They seem to use a lot of large diameter coils to help align the particles.Found this nice animation of a quarter wave plate:

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~jmccullough/Applets/Flash/Optics/CircPol.swf

Since they are using an RF field, I would assume the "quarter wave plate" refers to a plate whose actual length is 1/4 of the wavelength of whatever frequency they are using.  For demonstration let's use CB radio frequencies, cause I am familiar with those.
Channel 19 on the CB is 27.185 mhz, or 27,185,000 hz.  Discovering wavelength is easy, as radio waves travel at lightspeed which is 186,000 miles per second.  to get wavelength you just use the speed of light, or C multiplied by a mile, or 5,280 ft.  Then divide by frequency: 186,000 x 5280 / 27,185,000 = 36.125 ft for a full wave antenna.  A quarter wave antenna would then be 36.125 / 4 = 9.014 ft long to resonate perfectly at channel 19.  A 1/4 wave antenna for a 100 mhz signal would be about 6 inches long.
In actual practice though, the material the antenna, or in this case the plate, would have some effect on the actual length due to the electrical resistance of the material from which it was constructed.

Quote from DNKXP on February 1st, 2012, 08:49 PM

Since they are using an RF field, I would assume the "quarter wave plate" refers to a plate whose actual length is 1/4 of the wavelength of whatever frequency they are using.  For demonstration let's use CB radio frequencies, cause I am familiar with those.
Channel 19 on the CB is 27.185 mhz, or 27,185,000 hz.  Discovering wavelength is easy, as radio waves travel at lightspeed which is 186,000 miles per second.  to get wavelength you just use the speed of light, or C multiplied by a mile, or 5,280 ft.  Then divide by frequency: 186,000 x 5280 / 27,185,000 = 36.125 ft for a full wave antenna.  A quarter wave antenna would then be 36.125 / 4 = 9.014 ft long to resonate perfectly at channel 19.  A 1/4 wave antenna for a 100 mhz signal would be about 6 inches long.
In actual practice though, the material the antenna, or in this case the plate, would have some effect on the actual length due to the electrical resistance of the material from which it was constructed.

They are using the quarter wave plate with the laser.  It is a clear lens cut that transforms linear light to circular polarized light.

 I did some searching on it and they are also used in cd rom drives.  The laser light originates from the laser, passes through some kind of wave splitting lens, then part of the light passes through the half wave plate, then a mirror, then to the cd.  When the light is reflected back from the cd, it passes back through the half wave plate.  When it does, the waves are 180 deg out of phase from the original light beam.  The reflected beam passes by the original beam, through the splitting lens, and to the optical receiver instead of back to the laser diode.  

To bad i smashed all the lenses in the last cd rom drive i took apart!:P

NateIt looks like quarter wave plates are easy to come by these days.:)  Found this cheap source designed for monitors: http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=304
Also looks like some 3D glasses may work.

Nate

Quote from firepinto on February 1st, 2012, 07:12 PM

It's interesting that they use an RF field to pretty much "shake out" the photon from the gas.  Which causes the electron to fall to a lower valence.  We just need the RF frequency that "shakes out" the electron instead of the photon.:cool: What would happen to the photon after electrons are stripped?  Ejected as well?

That... is VERY interesting! Nice find.  :cool: :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_polarization
"Spin polarization is the degree to which the spin, i.e., the intrinsic angular momentum of elementary particles, is aligned with a given direction. This property may pertain to the spin, hence to the magnetic moment, of conduction electrons :idea:in ferromagnetic metals, such as iron:idea:, giving rise to spin-polarized currents. It may refer to (static) spin waves, preferential correlation of spin orientation with ordered lattices (semiconductors or insulators)."
(maybe I was wrong about what goes in the EPG. :D  wouldn't be the first time.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer
"The common types of polarizers are linear polarizers and circular polarizers."
"Polarizers can also be made for other types of electromagnetic waves besides light, such as radio waves, microwaves, and X-rays."

"There are several ways to create circularly polarized light, the cheapest and most common involves placing a quarter-wave plate after a linear polarizer and directing unpolarized light through the linear polarizer. The linearly polarized light leaving the linear polarizer is transformed into circularly polarized light by the quarter wave plate. The transmission axis of the linear polarizer needs to be half way (45°) between the fast and slow axes of the quarter-wave plate."

It sounds like... as an example, I take sunlight, run it through a filter to get only light in one direction. (They have a nice picture showing this.)  Then I use a Quarter Wave Plate to make it spin.

Main Section Link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ligcon.html#c1

Methods for Polorizing:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/polar.html#c1
1) Scattering
2) Reflection
3) Birefringence

Types of Polarization:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/polclas.html
1) Linear
2) Circular
3) Elliptical



:exclamation: WAIT! PAUSE! THOUGHT! :exclamation:
"giving rise to spin-polarized currents"
Is this how Stan help reduce Lenz Law?

"It may refer to (static) spin waves, preferential correlation of spin orientation with ordered lattices"
This sounds like, to me, what Stan talked about with lattices.

anyone have any thoughts?

Quote from Ravenous Emu on February 2nd, 2012, 01:00 AM

Quote from firepinto on February 1st, 2012, 07:12 PM

It's interesting that they use an RF field to pretty much "shake out" the photon from the gas.  Which causes the electron to fall to a lower valence.  We just need the RF frequency that "shakes out" the electron instead of the photon.:cool: What would happen to the photon after electrons are stripped?  Ejected as well?

That... is VERY interesting! Nice find.  :cool: :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_polarization
"Spin polarization is the degree to which the spin, i.e., the intrinsic angular momentum of elementary particles, is aligned with a given direction. This property may pertain to the spin, hence to the magnetic moment, of conduction electrons :idea:in ferromagnetic metals, such as iron:idea:, giving rise to spin-polarized currents. It may refer to (static) spin waves, preferential correlation of spin orientation with ordered lattices (semiconductors or insulators)."
(maybe I was wrong about what goes in the EPG. :D  wouldn't be the first time.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer
"The common types of polarizers are linear polarizers and circular polarizers."
"Polarizers can also be made for other types of electromagnetic waves besides light, such as radio waves, microwaves, and X-rays."

"There are several ways to create circularly polarized light, the cheapest and most common involves placing a quarter-wave plate after a linear polarizer and directing unpolarized light through the linear polarizer. The linearly polarized light leaving the linear polarizer is transformed into circularly polarized light by the quarter wave plate. The transmission axis of the linear polarizer needs to be half way (45°) between the fast and slow axes of the quarter-wave plate."

It sounds like... as an example, I take sunlight, run it through a filter to get only light in one direction. (They have a nice picture showing this.)  Then I use a Quarter Wave Plate to make it spin.

Main Section Link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ligcon.html#c1

Methods for Polorizing:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/polar.html#c1
1) Scattering
2) Reflection
3) Birefringence

Types of Polarization:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/polclas.html
1) Linear
2) Circular
3) Elliptical



:exclamation: WAIT! PAUSE! THOUGHT! :exclamation:
"giving rise to spin-polarized currents"
Is this how Stan help reduce Lenz Law?

"It may refer to (static) spin waves, preferential correlation of spin orientation with ordered lattices"
This sounds like, to me, what Stan talked about with lattices.

anyone have any thoughts?

read this:

http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Patents/Stan%20Meyer%20Dealership%20Sales%20Manual%201986.pdf

PDF page 88-104

this is what im going to be going through in my upcoming videos...

mainly page 92 for this thread...

enjoy, ~Russ

Nice.  I have yet to read through the whole thing... I did notice something interesting.

Pg 98
Attenuating Gas-Field:
"in all cases, the field of the gas can be attenuated in ways to overcome emf opposition: horizontal to vertical deflection, rotational, compressional wave, and/or field balancing between different magnetic fields, as shown in Figure 26A."

Sure sounds like this rotational spin polarizing effect... and certainly sounds like it's a way to help eliminate Lenz's Law in the tubing.

This is gonna be slightly difficult to explain without a picture or something.
Lenz's Law essentially states that...
1) When you have a changing magnetic field...
2) You induce a Current, in a direction that creates another magnetic field...
3) that opposes the change of the original magnetic field.

So... Lets say there are 2 ways to "line up" the magnetic field.
1) Parallel with the tube (aimed down the length of the tube)
2) Perpendicular with the tube.  (rotated 90deg. so the magnetic field "falls outside" the tube)

This shows the Parallel way to set it up...
Stop it at 1:28 and 1:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU6NSh7hr7Q

So now, what if we rotated the magnet 90deg?  so that, the magnetic field came out of the sides of the tubing rather than the ends.  With that being said...
Now, when the magnet is running the length of the tube, Lenz's Law is inducing that current which creates that opposing magnetic field.  HOWEVER, instead of forcing the magnet through that opposing magnetic field (which would make the opposition more severe),  we force it through "sideways" or so that the 2 magnetic fields are parallel.

Does this make sense?  Then it makes Stan's mannerisms more understandable.

The magnetic fields that normally would oppose each other... now they're running parallel to each other.  Check it out 1:52-3:03.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Nq5S2c9LsYs

Man, I just just keep getting blown away with all of this.  
This post might be a little off topic in this thread... but still interesting nonetheless. :cool:

Quote from Ravenous Emu on February 2nd, 2012, 06:56 PM

Nice.  I have yet to read through the whole thing... I did notice something interesting.

Pg 98
Attenuating Gas-Field:
"in all cases, the field of the gas can be attenuated in ways to overcome emf opposition: horizontal to vertical deflection, rotational, compressional wave, and/or field balancing between different magnetic fields, as shown in Figure 26A."

Sure sounds like this rotational spin polarizing effect... and certainly sounds like it's a way to help eliminate Lenz's Law in the tubing.

This is gonna be slightly difficult to explain without a picture or something.
Lenz's Law essentially states that...
1) When you have a changing magnetic field...
2) You induce a Current, in a direction that creates another magnetic field...
3) that opposes the change of the original magnetic field.

So... Lets say there are 2 ways to "line up" the magnetic field.
1) Parallel with the tube (aimed down the length of the tube)
2) Perpendicular with the tube.  (rotated 90deg. so the magnetic field "falls outside" the tube)

This shows the Parallel way to set it up...
Stop it at 1:28 and 1:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU6NSh7hr7Q

So now, what if we rotated the magnet 90deg?  so that, the magnetic field came out of the sides of the tubing rather than the ends.  With that being said...
Now, when the magnet is running the length of the tube, Lenz's Law is inducing that current which creates that opposing magnetic field.  HOWEVER, instead of forcing the magnet through that opposing magnetic field (which would make the opposition more severe),  we force it through "sideways" or so that the 2 magnetic fields are parallel.

Does this make sense?  Then it makes Stan's mannerisms more understandable.

The magnetic fields that normally would oppose each other... now they're running parallel to each other.  Check it out 1:52-3:03.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Nq5S2c9LsYs

Man, I just just keep getting blown away with all of this.  
This post might be a little off topic in this thread... but still interesting nonetheless. :cool:

Wow .. lol ya grasping it faster than I am.  I'm focusing more on the light/photon part, and how to manufacture the magnetic gas.  I'm thinking a gas gun with a storage tank, rather than a flow through design.  Once the gas is made it is purged out into the EPG.

Quote from firepinto on February 2nd, 2012, 09:05 PM

Wow .. lol ya grasping it faster than I am.  I'm focusing more on the light/photon part, and how to manufacture the magnetic gas.  I'm thinking a gas gun with a storage tank, rather than a flow through design.  Once the gas is made it is purged out into the EPG.

Lol, I don't even know what I'm talking about half the time. :D
(I was thinking about my last post a little more... I'm assuming there are no coils around the copper tube... so, it may need to go in "parallel".  I don't really know, it's and educated guess. :D)
Your idea of purging a tank through the epg could be an interesting start. :)

You've proably thought more about this than I have... but here's my thought.
This circular light is "spinning"... does this spinning light make the electrons spin in the same direction?  If it does... then, there's your process for permantly magnetizing material.

Stan states that magnetic materials have electrons which spin in the same dircetion.  So, by that logic... what if we forced electrons to do it by this circular polarized light.  AKA "spin polarizing particles"

It's probably in the paper... I just haven't had time to sit down and read it yet. :D

Quote from Ravenous Emu on February 3rd, 2012, 09:00 AM

Quote from firepinto on February 2nd, 2012, 09:05 PM

Wow .. lol ya grasping it faster than I am.  I'm focusing more on the light/photon part, and how to manufacture the magnetic gas.  I'm thinking a gas gun with a storage tank, rather than a flow through design.  Once the gas is made it is purged out into the EPG.

Lol, I don't even know what I'm talking about half the time. :D
(I was thinking about my last post a little more... I'm assuming there are no coils around the copper tube... so, it may need to go in "parallel".  I don't really know, it's and educated guess. :D)
Your idea of purging a tank through the epg could be an interesting start. :)

You've proably thought more about this than I have... but here's my thought.
This circular light is "spinning"... does this spinning light make the electrons spin in the same direction?  If it does... then, there's your process for permantly magnetizing material.

Stan states that magnetic materials have electrons which spin in the same dircetion.  So, by that logic... what if we forced electrons to do it by this circular polarized light.  AKA "spin polarizing particles"

It's probably in the paper... I just haven't had time to sit down and read it yet. :D

I think the electron can be made to spin in the same direction.  If I remember right, there was something about that in the papers.  One of the coil sets are used to tweak alignments i think.

Nate

You know... I've never thought in a million years that I'd do what I'm doing right now.

Actually, trying to learn quantum physics... Whoo Hoo!!! :D

still reading and deciphering that paper. :dodgy:

Here are some links that I found may be useful: I've read through most, but not all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spintronics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_pumping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_Engineering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoemission
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_spin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetic_resonance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Zq7ya-Pis
http://www.physik.unizh.ch/groups/grouposterwalder/Spin_Lecture_Osterwalder_chapt_5.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_transfer_torque
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/qnenergy.html#c1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/atomstructcon.html#c1

I'm about half way through that paper... :dodgy:
anyways, I've got a physics text book instead... I've been reading through that.. and so happened across polarization, lasers, etc.

Textbook: Principles of Physics 3rd Edition - A calculus based text
Authors: Raymond A. Serway & John W. Jewett, Jr.

- Laser stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.
- Laser light is coherent. (each ray has the same phase in relation to each other.)
- Laser light is monochromatic. (the same frequency, in other words the same "color".)
- Laser light has a small divergence angle. (it stays in a narrow beam.)

In order to get Stimulated Emission we need:
- "population inversion". (more excited atoms than un-excited ones.  optical pumping and laser pumping are 2 examples.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_pumping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping
- a "metastable state". (the atoms need to stay excited.)
- photons emitted by the atoms need to remain in the system long enough to affect other atoms.

Here's a nice quick video showing a Neon-Helium Laser. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_J1tkB0RKE

I still have yet to understand how the "spinning" of light effects the laser.

If I had to guess... I'd say that the "quarter wave plate" can be varied in size/thickness to change the "crossectional area" or the spin characteristics of the polarized light.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/polclas.html#c1

I'll post more when I understand some more :D

Quote from Ravenous Emu on February 3rd, 2012, 08:44 PM

I'm about half way through that paper... :dodgy:
anyways, I've got a physics text book instead... I've been reading through that.. and so happened across polarization, lasers, etc.

Textbook: Principles of Physics 3rd Edition - A calculus based text
Authors: Raymond A. Serway & John W. Jewett, Jr.

- Laser stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.
- Laser light is coherent. (each ray has the same phase in relation to each other.)
- Laser light is monochromatic. (the same frequency, in other words the same "color".)
- Laser light has a small divergence angle. (it stays in a narrow beam.)

In order to get Stimulated Emission we need:
- "population inversion". (more excited atoms than un-excited ones.  optical pumping and laser pumping are 2 examples.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_pumping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping
- a "metastable state". (the atoms need to stay excited.)
- photons emitted by the atoms need to remain in the system long enough to affect other atoms.

Here's a nice quick video showing a Neon-Helium Laser. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_J1tkB0RKE

I still have yet to understand how the "spinning" of light effects the laser.

If I had to guess... I'd say that the "quarter wave plate" can be varied in size/thickness to change the "crossectional area" or the spin characteristics of the polarized light.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/polclas.html#c1

I'll post more when I understand some more :D

I cant get my head wrapped around cicular polarized light either.  I was always figuring that all wave forms were a helical wave that we just persieved in 2D, because we don't have the technology to measure it.

Here are a couple of links I've found that may be useful... not on circular light... but magnetizing fluids...

http://scitation.aip.org/vsearch/servlet/VerityServlet?KEY=FREESR&search=Search&smode=results&bool1=and&possible1zone=article&possible1=magnetic+fluids
http://jap.aip.org/resource/1/japiau/v107/i9/p09B304_s1?isAuthorized=no
http://proceedings.aip.org/resource/2/apcpcs/1387/1/208_1?isAuthorized=no
http://jap.aip.org/resource/1/japiau/v106/i4/p044905_s1?isAuthorized=no

Quote from firepinto on February 3rd, 2012, 10:12 PM

I cant get my head wrapped around cicular polarized light either.

No pun intended right? :D

:idea:  I think I've got it.  :idea:
Here are 2 good links and lets see if I can explain 'em... Pictures are worth 1000 words. :D
http://www.enzim.hu/~szia/cddemo/edemo8.htm
http://plc.cwru.edu/tutorial/enhanced/files/lc/light/light.htm
"Linear polarization is merely a special case of circularly polarized light."

Lets say I have a standard x-y graph in front of me. and the light goes into the page/graph.
The y axis is the vertically polarized light
The x axis is the horizontilly polarized light.

In order to get a circular polarized wave I need a "quarter wave plate" which offsets ,aka sliding one of the waves into/out of the page, one of your waves.  This gives you your circular motion.  And depending on how much you offset the two waves... you'll get anything from linear, circular, to elliptical.

Hope that helps!

I was thinking that it was just one wave in one direction.  it's two waves in two directions.  Which, WHEN COMBINED, creates one circularly polarized wave.

Next question for me is... how is it utilized?

Quote from Ravenous Emu on February 4th, 2012, 10:46 PM

Quote from firepinto on February 3rd, 2012, 10:12 PM

I cant get my head wrapped around cicular polarized light either.

No pun intended right? :D

:idea:  I think I've got it.  :idea:
Here are 2 good links and lets see if I can explain 'em... Pictures are worth 1000 words. :D
http://www.enzim.hu/~szia/cddemo/edemo8.htm
http://plc.cwru.edu/tutorial/enhanced/files/lc/light/light.htm
"Linear polarization is merely a special case of circularly polarized light."

Lets say I have a standard x-y graph in front of me. and the light goes into the page/graph.
The y axis is the vertically polarized light
The x axis is the horizontilly polarized light.

In order to get a circular polarized wave I need a "quarter wave plate" which offsets ,aka sliding one of the waves into/out of the page, one of your waves.  This gives you your circular motion.  And depending on how much you offset the two waves... you'll get anything from linear, circular, to elliptical.

Hope that helps!

I was thinking that it was just one wave in one direction.  it's two waves in two directions.  Which, WHEN COMBINED, creates one circularly polarized wave.

Next question for me is... how is it utilized?

Pun was an accident.:D lol I noticed it too after I posted.
So the wave plate has a delaying effect on the magnetic field wave, and not the electric field wave, portion of light?  
I haven't found anything explaining why circular polarization is needed, but they all use it.  Maybe it helps spin up the electrons in alignment better.:huh:  
Another thing I dont quite understand, light is photons, but light is also electric and magnetic waves..  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  My thoughts are the traveling photon creates those waves.  So perhaps the cirular wave is just the symptom.  Maybe the half wave plate actually gets the photon spinning?  What kind of effect would a spinning photon(at the speed of light?) have in a gas atom?

Nate
Did some searching on photon/light waves.  I didn't realize scientists really can't decide on what light is made of.  Everytime I read something that gets super complicated with formulas and equations, I think about Ed Leedskalnin's simple explination of "tiny magnets".  That could probably be applied to light waves too.  

I thought this was an interesting quote from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

Quote

Photons can also be absorbed by nuclei, atoms or molecules, provoking transitions between their energy levels. A classic example is the molecular transition of retinal C20H28O, which is responsible for vision, as discovered in 1958 by Nobel laureate biochemist George Wald and co-workers. The absorption provokes a cis-trans isomerization that, in combination with other such transitions, is transduced into nerve impulses.

It basically sounds like our vision is an electron extraction circuit! :P

Nate

Quote from firepinto on February 5th, 2012, 04:34 AM

Quote from Ravenous Emu on February 4th, 2012, 10:46 PM

Quote from firepinto on February 3rd, 2012, 10:12 PM

I cant get my head wrapped around cicular polarized light either.

No pun intended right? :D

:idea:  I think I've got it.  :idea:
Here are 2 good links and lets see if I can explain 'em... Pictures are worth 1000 words. :D
http://www.enzim.hu/~szia/cddemo/edemo8.htm
http://plc.cwru.edu/tutorial/enhanced/files/lc/light/light.htm
"Linear polarization is merely a special case of circularly polarized light."

Lets say I have a standard x-y graph in front of me. and the light goes into the page/graph.
The y axis is the vertically polarized light
The x axis is the horizontilly polarized light.

In order to get a circular polarized wave I need a "quarter wave plate" which offsets ,aka sliding one of the waves into/out of the page, one of your waves.  This gives you your circular motion.  And depending on how much you offset the two waves... you'll get anything from linear, circular, to elliptical.

Hope that helps!

I was thinking that it was just one wave in one direction.  it's two waves in two directions.  Which, WHEN COMBINED, creates one circularly polarized wave.

Next question for me is... how is it utilized?

Pun was an accident.:D lol I noticed it too after I posted.
So the wave plate has a delaying effect on the magnetic field wave, and not the electric field wave, portion of light?  
I haven't found anything explaining why circular polarization is needed, but they all use it.  Maybe it helps spin up the electrons in alignment better.:huh:  
Another thing I dont quite understand, light is photons, but light is also electric and magnetic waves..  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  My thoughts are the traveling photon creates those waves.  So perhaps the cirular wave is just the symptom.  Maybe the half wave plate actually gets the photon spinning?  What kind of effect would a spinning photon(at the speed of light?) have in a gas atom?

Nate

Did some searching on photon/light waves.  I didn't realize scientists really can't decide on what light is made of.  Everytime I read something that gets super complicated with formulas and equations, I think about Ed Leedskalnin's simple explination of "tiny magnets".  That could probably be applied to light waves too.  

I thought this was an interesting quote from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

Quote

Photons can also be absorbed by nuclei, atoms or molecules, provoking transitions between their energy levels. A classic example is the molecular transition of retinal C20H28O, which is responsible for vision, as discovered in 1958 by Nobel laureate biochemist George Wald and co-workers. The absorption provokes a cis-trans isomerization that, in combination with other such transitions, is transduced into nerve impulses.

It basically sounds like our vision is an electron extraction circuit! :P

Nate

As for most of mans inventions we have or had to observe creation all around us.

Quote from firepinto on February 5th, 2012, 04:34 AM

So the wave plate has a delaying effect on the magnetic field wave, and not the electric field wave, portion of light?  
light is photons, but light is also electric and magnetic waves...  
My thoughts are the traveling photon creates those waves.  So perhaps the cirular wave is just the symptom.
Maybe the half wave plate actually gets the photon spinning?  
What kind of effect would a spinning photon(at the speed of light?) have in a gas atom?

Yes and No to the magnetic field thing. (That's specific isn't it. :D) I asked the same question you did.  "does it delay the magnetic field?"
The Quest begins... (This is going to be a VERY long post.)

You are 100% correct about photons creating those waves.  However, that is only half of the picture.  Let me see if I can explain it... :s
Simply put, there are 2 ways to describe the same thing.  A Photon is the particle aspect, Electromagnetic Radiation describes the wave aspect.
(it's what they call the "wave-partical duality")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation
An electromagnetic wave's magentic field has the same "magnitude" as its electric field... except, it's perpendicular to that field.
"[Electro-Magnetic Radiation] has both electric and magnetic field components, which oscillate in phase perpendicular to each other and perpendicular to the direction of energy and wave [movement]."
Furthermore, a photon does correspond to an electromagnetic wave.
"electromagnetic energy is emitted and absorbed as discrete packets of energy, or quanta, called photons.  The energy of the photons is proportional to the frequency of the wave."

With that being said... THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME!!!
(Now that is cool :cool: and :@ frustrating at the same time! :D)

Alright, now that you've got the ground work. Lets go back to my last post.
http://plc.cwru.edu/tutorial/enhanced/files/lc/light/light.htm
Skip to "polarized light"
"Consider two light waves, one polarized in the YZ plane and the other in the XY plane."
I have 2 light sources.  one vertically and one horizontally.  Lets say I delay one of the 2 sources... now, when you combine the two you'll get circular polarized light.
In other words, one of the light sources is out of phase with the other.  Which, in turn, creates your circular pattern.

On to the Quarter Wave Plate...
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/phyopt/quarwv.html#c3
I didn't do a ton of digging into this... but, when you pass a linearly polarized light through a "quarter wave plate" you will get 2 linearly polarized light waves... However! they are out of phase with each other.
What happens when your light sources are out of phase with each other? :D

I like your last question... its similar to a question I had in regard to your earlier posts.
"What kind of effect would a spinning photon (at the speed of light?) have in a gas atom?"
After doing some digging in quantum physics/mechanics... (and not understanding half of it :D)
I did come across the fact that you could use it to make the electrons spin in the same direction.  (I'd have to go over it again to really see how it works.)

Moving on, this portion really needs to be in another thread... but it needs to be stated here, as well.
What happens when electrons spin in the same direction?
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/tutorials/magnetacademy/magnets/page2.html
"All magnetism comes down to electrons...  In the case of permanent magnets, it’s the spinning of the electrons that creates magnetism, not their movement through a conducting material."

Also,
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/tutorials/java/domains/index.html
"A permanent magnet is nothing more than a ferromagnetic object in which all the domains are aligned in the same direction."

And, (Stan talks about a stabilized magnetic gas, at room temperature...)
"There are only four elements in the world that are ferromagnetic at room temperature and can become permanently magnetized: iron, nickel, cobalt and gadolinium. (A fifth element, dysprosium, becomes ferromagnetic at low temperatures.)"

*whew*  done typing... if you have any questions, ask.  I'll do my best to see if I can clarify.  I am NOT a physicist!  so, I'm in the same boat as you guys... I'm learning and re-learning as I go. :D

I think this applies here. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB64dEuWSNs&

That is... interesting... :)
(I don't necessarily think the same thing... but, what's wrong with being open-minded?  Other than your brain could fall out. :D)

Don't quote me on this... but, I think he's describing what are called "bosons".
I'll have to research it.Still diggin... but here's what I've dug up so far.

(go to "boson" section) http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/spinc.html
(scroll down to "photon") http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/expar.html
(go to "exchange forces") http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/exchg.html#c1

http://particleadventure.org/fermibos.html

Still learnin... will post more later as I read through as much material as I can find :D

I haven't read fully through this... but figured I'd post it and come back to it later. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_bosons

I would recomend reading this because it is very easy to understand... (I like it better than the text book I was reading... Calculus... Bleh!) :D
P.S. I'm pulling all of the information from the same article.
http://particleadventure.org/standard-model.html
http://particleadventure.org/inter_summary.html
This link shows what particles interact with a particular force carrier.

Here are some quotes I've dug out... and I think it may be helpful to understand what's happening.
http://particleadventure.org/quarks.html
"Quarks are one type of matter particle. Most of the matter we see around us is made from protons and neutrons, which are composed of quarks."

http://particleadventure.org/hadrons.html
"Composite particles made of quarks are called [Hadrons]."
"There are two classes of hadrons. [ Baryons and Mesons]."

http://particleadventure.org/leptons.html
"The other type of matter particles are the leptons."
"The best known lepton is the electron. The other two charged leptons are the muon and the tau, which are charged like electrons but have a lot more mass."

http://particleadventure.org/unseen.html
"It is when we approach the deeper question, 'How can two objects affect one another without touching?' that we propose that the invisible force could be an exchange of force carrier particles. Particle physicists have found that we can explain the force of one particle acting on another to INCREDIBLE precision by the exchange of these force carrier particles.
One important thing to know about force carriers is that a particular force carrier particle can only be absorbed or produced by a matter particle which is affected by that particular force. For instance, electrons and protons have electric charge, so they can produce and absorb the electromagnetic force carrier, the photon."

http://particleadventure.org/residual_m.html
"Since [an atom is] neutral, what causes them to stick together to form stable molecules?"
"So the electromagnetic force is what allows atoms to bond and form molecules, allowing the world to stay together and create the matter you interact with all of the time."
(aka "residual electromagnetic force".)
*SIDE NOTE*
This sounds like Stan's " Q " and " Q' ". (aka covalent bonding.  Or as stan puts it... "covalent link-up".)

http://particleadventure.org/strong.html
"The strong force holds quarks together to form hadrons, so its carrier particles are whimsically called  gluons because they so tightly 'glue' quarks together"
http://particleadventure.org/residualstrong.html
"The strong force between the quarks in one proton and the quarks in another proton is strong enough to overwhelm the repulsive electromagnetic force."
(aka "residual strong force")

http://particleadventure.org/quantum_mech.html
"Physicists use the word "quantum," which means "broken into increments or parcels," to describe the physics of very small particles. This is because certain properties only take on discrete values."
"A few of the important quantum numbers of particles are:
Electric charge: Quarks may have 2/3 or 1/3 electron charges, but they only form composite particles with integer electric charge. All particles other than quarks have integer multiples of the electron's charge.
Color charge: A quark carries one of three color charges and a gluon carries one of eight color-anticolor charges. All other particles are color neutral.
Flavor: Flavor distinguishes quarks (and leptons) from one another.
Spin: Spin is a bizarre but important physical quantity. Large objects like planets or marbles may have angular momentum and a magnetic field because they spin. Since particles also to appear to have their own angular momentum and tiny magnetic moments, physicists called this particle property spin. This is a misleading term since particles are not actually "spinning." Spin is quantized to units of 0, 1/2, 1, 3/2 (times Planck's Constant, ) and so on."

Hope this helps.
This last thing about spin makes my head spin... :D
There is angular momentum about a point, known as Rotation. aka spin.
There is "angular momentum" that is an "intrinsic physical property".  aka spin.
I think I should've kept reading... slightly later it goes on and says.

http://particleadventure.org/fermibos.html
"All the force carrier particles are bosons, as are those composite particles with an even number of fermion particles (like mesons)."

Soooo, In other words...
The photon is the force carrier for the electromagnetic force.  photons are "bosons".
The "quantum spin" (not regular spin) determines whether or not a particle is a "fermion" or "boson".

bosons can occupy the same space.
fermions cannot occupy the same space.

So, what happens if you cross two lasers?  don't they keep on going, even right through another beam of light?
Can you not cross beams of light and they pass right through each other?  Yes, However, when they do cross each others paths there is "interference".  it is either "constructive" or "destructive" (light is also a wave remember. :D)

Ravenous Emu Wrote:  My theory of how it operates:
 Here are a few links to start this off:
 http://science.howstuffworks.com/laser.htm
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation
 http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/tuto...page2.html
 
Background Info:
 Atoms have 3 component parts. Electrons, Neutrons, & Protons.
 Atoms can be in a "ground state" or "excited state".
 Atoms can make a transition to an "excited state" by adding energy to them.
 Atoms can make a transition to a "ground state" by removing energy from them.
 When an atom moves from an "excited state" to a "ground state" it emits a photon
 Electromagnetic Radiation consists of photons which correspond to a specific frequency. (a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum is visible light.)
 
Magnetism:
 "A permanent magnet is nothing more than a ferromagnetic object in which all the domains are aligned in the same direction."
 "All magnetism comes down to electrons... In the case of permanent magnets, it’s the spinning of the electrons..."
 "There are only four elements... that are ferromagnetic at room temperature...iron, nickel, cobalt and gadolinium..."
 
Basic Laser Construction:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_J1tkB0RKE
 A gas filled tube full of your "lasing medium".
 A "discharge lamp" (aka, your light source).
 A couple of mirrors. (one is 100% reflective, the other only 99%).
 And of course your power source for your "discharge lamp".
 
Stan's Laser Construction:
 A gas filled tube full of a "lasing medium"
 A "discharge lamp"
 A "light guide"
 And of course, a power source.
 
Comparison:
 A few differences between the two lasers are...
 1) Stan's gas is magnetic
 2) Stan has coiled his gas tube.
 3) Stan has wrapped wire around his coiled gas tube.
 
My Thoughts and Theory:
 Let's take this gas filled tube and lay it out in a straight line for 299,792,458 meters.
 If I turn the "discharge lamp" on for a fraction of a second, it will emit a photon.
 after one second how far will that one photon travel? 299,792,458 meters. (the speed of light, right?)
 Okay, lets assume the gas is in a "ground state" configuration.
 When the photon hits the first atom it is absorbed and then re-emitted. (because the atom is not "metastable".)
 This means that the electrons around the atom have "jumped up" and "jumped down" very quickly.
 I would say at speed of light because the speed with which this transition happens.
 
Now, what if our gas was magnetic? What effect would that have?
 I'm inclined to think... based on what I've just outlined, you'll "move a magnetic field at the speed of light".
 
If this is possible... can we wrap coils around the tube and produce electricity?
 
Your Thoughts and Theories:
 What are your thoughts? Theories? Questions? Insights? I'd love to hear 'em.
 Shoot holes in my theory... that's the only way to see if it survives right?

Ravenous Emu Wrote:  My theory of how it operates:
 Here are a few links to start this off:
 http://science.howstuffworks.com/laser.htm
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation
 http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/tuto...page2.html
 
Background Info:
 Atoms have 3 component parts. Electrons, Neutrons, & Protons.
 Atoms can be in a "ground state" or "excited state".
 Atoms can make a transition to an "excited state" by adding energy to them.
 Atoms can make a transition to a "ground state" by removing energy from them.
 When an atom moves from an "excited state" to a "ground state" it emits a photon
 Electromagnetic Radiation consists of photons which correspond to a specific frequency. (a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum is visible light.)
 
Magnetism:
 "A permanent magnet is nothing more than a ferromagnetic object in which all the domains are aligned in the same direction."
 "All magnetism comes down to electrons... In the case of permanent magnets, it’s the spinning of the electrons..."
 "There are only four elements... that are ferromagnetic at room temperature...iron, nickel, cobalt and gadolinium..."
 
Basic Laser Construction:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_J1tkB0RKE
 A gas filled tube full of your "lasing medium".
 A "discharge lamp" (aka, your light source).
 A couple of mirrors. (one is 100% reflective, the other only 99%).
 And of course your power source for your "discharge lamp".
 
Stan's Laser Construction:
 A gas filled tube full of a "lasing medium"
 A "discharge lamp"
 A "light guide"
 And of course, a power source.
 
Comparison:
 A few differences between the two lasers are...
 1) Stan's gas is magnetic
 2) Stan has coiled his gas tube.
 3) Stan has wrapped wire around his coiled gas tube.
 
My Thoughts and Theory:
 Let's take this gas filled tube and lay it out in a straight line for 299,792,458 meters.
 If I turn the "discharge lamp" on for a fraction of a second, it will emit a photon.
 after one second how far will that one photon travel? 299,792,458 meters. (the speed of light, right?)
 Okay, lets assume the gas is in a "ground state" configuration.
 When the photon hits the first atom it is absorbed and then re-emitted. (because the atom is not "metastable".)
 This means that the electrons around the atom have "jumped up" and "jumped down" very quickly.
 I would say at speed of light because the speed with which this transition happens.
 
Now, what if our gas was magnetic? What effect would that have?
 I'm inclined to think... based on what I've just outlined, you'll "move a magnetic field at the speed of light".
 
If this is possible... can we wrap coils around the tube and produce electricity?
 
Your Thoughts and Theories:
 What are your thoughts? Theories? Questions? Insights? I'd love to hear 'em.
 Shoot holes in my theory... that's the only way to see if it survives right? Rally awesome advanced knwoeldge here
Can we Write a Summary off all this similar to Emu's post so we consolidate to summary
this way other can learn more quickly also

Post as Sumarry in same thread