Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric

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Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #1,  »
It is interesting to note in the patent that the water molecule's angle is changed from 104 degrees to 109.28 tetrahedral geometrical configuration in an earlier stage before the actual electrolysis takes place. Only the tips of the Electrodes are exposed to the ac carrier wave he uses. Stan's description of the elongation process is almost identical to Puharich's description but there is a difference in patents. Stan uses half rectified carrier waves but Puharich doesn't. Stan doesn't mention conditioning the molecule from 104 degree's to 109.28 degrees in a process that Puharich clearly states in the patent. If Puharich's design were placed in a Stan Meyer cell then the tubes would have a glass dielectric membrane between the inner and outer tube for 90% of their length then only 10% of the tubes exposed as a cathode and anode. The 90% being the process of the 109.28 tetrahedral geometrical configuration. This makes sense to me. Puharich states clearly in the patent that the process has two clear objectives, the first being to elongate the molecule with dielectric forces then the second is to apply voltage to the altered state of the molecule.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #2,  »
Stan has to be insulating a massive part of his tubes in order to create the unblocking of the barrier effect then use the uninstalled parts of the tubes to create electrolysis.

Lynx

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #3,  »
So would you say then that Stan's cell initially elongates the water molecules only to end up performing electrolysis on the, these now, elongated water molecules, that they're so much easier to split, I.E it takes less active electric power using conventional brute force electrolysis on such elongated water molecules as compared to "normal" ditos to actually split them into hydrogen and oxygen ions?

massive

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #4,  »
It should be noted that these patents are over 40 yrs old and its been proven by everyone on forums that Puharich, Horvath , Meyers ,Pacheco never released a circuit diagram . No one here has Stans circuit diagram . They all spent big money on patents to protect there invention in hope of establishing a bussiness .

Cycle

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #5,  »Last edited by Cycle
Quote from Lynx on June 17th, 2018, 12:08 PM
So would you say then that Stan's cell initially elongates the water molecules only to end up performing electrolysis on the, these now, elongated water molecules, that they're so much easier to split, I.E it takes less active electric power using conventional brute force electrolysis on such elongated water molecules as compared to "normal" ditos to actually split them into hydrogen and oxygen ions?
That makes sense... the restoring force of water's electric dipole moment is nonlinear. The farther you push the electron toward its ionization potential, the less energy it takes to push it further.

From a prior post of mine:
Quote from Cycle on October 22nd, 2017, 03:09 PM
Here's where it gets really weird... Meyer's WFC wasn't really a harmonic oscillator. It was an anharmonic oscillator (an oscillating system in which the restoring force opposing a displacement from the position of equilibrium is a nonlinear function of the displacement... basically a harmonic oscillator driven to the point of runaway). But he was using parametric resonance to keep the anharmonic oscillator oscillating. In fact, he had to use parametric resonance to pump the WFC... parametric coupling to the anharmonic oscillator was the only way to keep it oscillating. The water's electric dipole moment was one of the parameters which changed, necessitating parametric pumping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anharmonicity
Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anharmonicity
There are many systems throughout the physical world that can be modeled as anharmonic oscillators in addition to the nonlinear mass-spring system. For example, an atom, which consists of a positively charged nucleus surrounded by a negatively charged electronic cloud, experiences a displacement between the center of mass of the nucleus and the electronic cloud when an electric field is present. The amount of that displacement, called the electric dipole moment, is related linearly to the applied field for small fields, but as the magnitude of the field is increased, the field-dipole moment relationship becomes nonlinear, just as in the mechanical system.
The restoring force is no longer proportional to the square of the displacement from the equilibrium position, it is instead less than the square of the displacement from the equilibrium position. This is what pushes the WFC (capacitor) water (electrolyte) into runaway breakdown if voltage is not stepped up while watching current, then cutting back on the voltage when current flow rises.

This is also why a large enough tank with a wide low-conductivity neutral-pH region in the center will push the water over the autoionization energy threshold, because we can use a high enough voltage and keep the current low.
Quote from http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/magnetic_electric_effects.html
Very high field strengths (>2.5  ˣ 109 V ˣ m-1) cause water dissociation in liquid water...

A.M. Saitta , F. Saija and P. V. Giaquinta, Ab initio molecular dynamics study of dissociation of water under an electric field, Physical Review Letters 108 (2012) 207801.

Fields beyond a threshold of about 0.35 V / angstrom are able to dissociate molecules and sustain an ionic current via a series of correlated proton jumps. Upon applying even more intense fields (∼ 1.0 V / angstrom ), a 15%–20% fraction of molecules are instantaneously dissociated and the resulting ionic flow yields a conductance of about 7.8 Ω −1 cm −1, in good agreement with experimental values.
You'll note that it's the field strength alone that causes the water to dissociate in the quoted text above... while an ionic current is initially set up to segregate the water, once that's done, no current is necessary to force the water over the autoionization threshold.

Does that 7.8 Ω −1 cm −1 look familiar? Didn't Stan say his WFC had a water dielectric value of 78.54 Ohms?
Imagine a system that can instantaneously dissociate 15-20% of its water... that'd be a lot of gas being generated.

I'm thinking along the lines of a low-voltage in-tank set of electrodes to keep the water's OH- and H3O+ constituents separated (which would have very little current flow after the ionic current separation stage is complete), and a set of electrodes outside the tank which have a high voltage applied to them to push the water over its autoionization threshold.

haxar

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #6,  »
Quote from massive on June 17th, 2018, 06:36 PM
It should be noted that these patents are over 40 yrs old and its been proven by everyone on forums that Puharich, Horvath , Meyers ,Pacheco never released a circuit diagram . No one here has Stans circuit diagram . They all spent big money on patents to protect there invention in hope of establishing a bussiness .
I guess it's time to close up shop.

:cleaning:

securesupplies

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #7,  »
Interesting post would that be called a DBD Barrier?

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Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #8,  »Last edited by Matt Watts
Interesting post Cycle. When you look at Stan's resonant signal and the resonant signal that Puharich talks about even though one is half rectified and the other isn't, the signal is in actual fact exactly the same. I produced the same signal as Puharich produced in my own experiments. Stan uses the gate (or the 50% duty cycle)  to chop off the trailing edge of the sinusoidal waveform then rectifies the lower half of the signal into the upper half to form a DC bias. The + charge on B1 and the corresponding negative charge on B2 is not a linear function during resonance but the carrier wave is. It is not a linear function because the system produces two elements to the signal, the carrier wave and the resonance modulation within it. If you read the patent he goes on to explain that Unipolar signal is created which is driven by the capacitance of the negative charge of the Electrons in the H2O molecule. In other words, the negative charge on one side of the capacitor is formed by the The Electrons in the water themselves and not by the negative choke. The negative choke is part of the carrier wave signal.
When Stan says 'were tuning into the dielectric property of water' that's exactly what Puharich says, you modulate an AM carrier wave at 600hz which produces 4 harmonics which interfere with the 104 degree angle of the Electrons of H2O, the Electrons change their angle to 109.28 degrees and become unstable, once unstable their capacitance within the circuit changes and a new frequency is created which is Unipolar because the unstable Electrons will form the negative half of the Unipolar frequency. But  Puharich says that the Unipolar pulses are created naturally in the process and not through the use of a diode. See below illustration.
Stan is cutting out this natural process by the look of things by tuning straight into the resonance of water with his own modulations and splitting the water not with brute force but with carefully designed signals which Puharich discovered. According to Puharich, that frequency is stabilized with a Unipolar wave of 5khz.
Quote
The unipolar pulse frequency stabilizes to ca. 5000 Hz. The unipolar pulses undergo a 0 to 1.3 volt pulsing amplitude modulation with .tau. at 3.0 seconds. 
Thus, there exists a pure open circuit reversible threshold for water electrolysis in which the water molecules are capacitor charging and discharging at their characteristic low frequency RC time constant of 0.0002 seconds. It is to be noted that pure water has a very high dielectric constant which makes such an effect possible. The pulsing amplitude modulation of the voltage is determined by the
Hydrogen Nuclear Spin Relaxation constant
, where .tau..congruent.3.0 seconds. It is to be noted that the positive pulse spikes are followed by a negative after-potential.
These pulse wave form s are identical to the classic nerve action potential spikes found in the nervous system  of all living species that have a nervous system. The fact that these unipolar pulses were observed arising in water under the conditions of
reversible threshold hydrolysis has a profound significance. These findings illuminate and confirm  the Warren McCulloch Theory of water "crystal" dynamics as being the foundation of neural dynamics; and the converse theory of Linus - 31 - Pauling which holds that water clathrate formation is the mechanism  of neural anesthesia. 
Phase 5: The effects associated with reversible threshold electrolysis are noted only in passim since they reflect events which are occurring on the electrode surfaces of Component II, the Thermodynamic Device. A principal effect that occurs in Stage B, Phase 3, in Component II, the thermodynamic device, is that the two electrodes undergo stages of polarization. It has been observed in extensive experiments with different kinds of fluids in the cell of Component II , i.e., distilled water, sea water, tap water, Ringers solution, dilute
suspensions of animal and human blood cells, that the inner surface of the outer ring electrode at 3'  in FIG. 3 (the electrode that is in contact with the fluid) becomes negatively charged. Referring to FIG. 7, this corresponds to the left hand columnar area marked, Electrode .crclbar..  Electrode Polarization Effects at the Interface Between Components II and III ~ concurrently with the driver pulsing of Component I at the .tau. constant cycle which leads to electrode polarization effect s in Component II, there is an action on
Component III which energizes and entrains the water molecule to a higher energy level which shifts the bond angle from
 104° to the tetrahedral form  with angle 109°28'  as shown in FIGS. 8 and 15. This electronic pumping action is most important, and represents a significant part of the novel method of this invention for several reasons. First, the shift to the tetrahedral form  of  water increases the structural stability of  the water molecule, thereby making it more susceptible to breakage at the correct resonant
frequency, or frequencies. Second, increasing the polarization of the water molecule makes the lone pair electrons, S- connected with
the oxygen molecule more electronegative; and the weakly positive hydrogen atoms, S+ more positive. See FIG. 9 and FIG. 22. 
As the outer electrode becomes more electronegative, the center electrode concomitantly becomes more electropositive as will be shown. As the polarity of the water molecule tetrahedron increases, a repulsive force occurs between the two S+ apices of the water tetrahedron and the negatively charged electrode surface within the region of the Helmholtz layer, as shown in FIG. 7. This effect orients" the water molecule in the field, and is the well-known "orientation factor" of electrochemistry which serves to catalyse the rate of oxygen dissociation from  the water molecule, and thereby causes the reaction rate to proceed at the lowest energy levels. See FIG.
10 for an example of how the orientation factor works.  Near the end of Stage B, the conditions are established for the beginning of the next stage, the stage of high efficiency electrolysis of water. 
STAGE C 
Generation of the complex wave form  frequencies from  Component I to match the complex wave form  resonant frequencies of the energized and highly polarized water molecule in tetrahedral form  with angles, 109°28'  are carried out in Stage C. 
- 32 -
In the operation of the invention active bubble electrolysis of water is initiated following Stage B, phase 3 by setting (automatically) the output of Component I to:  I = 1m A., E = 22VAC-rms,  causing the rippled square wave pulses to disappear with the appearance of a rippled sawtooth wave. The basic frequency of the carrier now becomes, fc = 3980 Hz. 
The wave form  now automatically shifts to a form  found to be the prime characteristic necessary for optimum  efficiency in the electrolysis of water and illustrated in FIG. 11. In the wave form  of FIG. 11, the fundamental carrier frequency, fc  = 3980 Hz., and a harmonic modulation of the carrier is as follows: 

1st Order Harmonic Modulation (OHM) = 7960 Hz. 
2nd Order Harmonic Modulation (II OHM) = 15,920 Hz. 
3rd Order Harmonic Modulation (III OHM) = 31,840 Hz. 
4th Order Harmonic Modulation (IV OHM) = 63,690 Hz.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #9,  »
So in actual fact, you can use the gate to create a carrier wave of 600hz because that ties into the water dynamics. That particular signal is used to prime the VIC to modulate at 5khz which is its self resonant frequency and is a linear function, a 5khz modulation on a 600hz carrier wave. This in turn causes a Unipolar pulse which is tied into the capacitance of the actual water molecule itself and this NOW BECOMES A CARRIER WAVE itself settling at 3980hz on which are 4 modulations containing 4 harmonics which are none linear in function but tuned into the capacitance of water itself. You are causing the water to become unstable because the Unipolar pulse along with its harmonics are not necessarily pulling at the water from both sides but actually pulling at the water from ONE side and causing the negative charge of the water molecules Electrons to become part of a capacitance field in the negative side of a capacitor. That's how I see it.   

securesupplies

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #10,  »
Nice Explanation, Miller also Say 5 khz with super imposed 5 khz gate

Petlov did this one https://youtu.be/namRpMcrd84

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Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #11,  »
Puharich clearly states that the signal between the VIC and the cell is a naturally occurring AM carrier wave and complex modulation which includes 4 harmonics besides the 5khz signal, the harmonics being specifically related to the frequency 3980hz.
Stan is very vague in his description of these events and talks about current being kept to a minimum and voltage taking off towards infinity. That is in reference to the step charge effect of the unipolar resonant pulse. In actual fact, Stan's step charge effect has nothing to do with voltage taking off towards infinity, that is wrong. That step charge effect is 90 degrees of AM carrier wave and modulation where 270 degrees of the signal has been cleverly chopped away through a diode and a gate but also a double in frequency which reduces the gate time to chop off the trailing half from an AM modulation. On Stan's VIC the negative choke is nothing more than a DC tap to ground to impedance match the capacitor to the rest of the VIC exactly like an antenna system. You can do it two ways, you can either match the inductive reactance or you can match the capacitive reactance to the system impedance depending whether or not the impedance is above or below what you need.
Puharich's description of proceedings is much more understandable and scientific, Stan's is vague and unscientific, inventing new terminology and effects.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #12,  »
This is what Stan is doing, don't know why I didn't see it before!
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #13,  »
Stan has to be using an AC source for his input to the VIC primary. Gating an AC signal is impossible with transistors because of the bias of the transistor unless you use an H-bridge with both PNP and NPN in the circuit tuned to the AC signal. You can then use an optocoupler/H-bridge configuration coupled to a signal generator to drive the primary that way.

Matt Watts

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #14,  »Last edited
Quote from nav on June 20th, 2018, 01:18 PM
Stan has to be using an AC source for his input to the VIC primary. Gating an AC signal is impossible with transistors ...
Not so.  My Universal Switch will gate any signal.
Quote from nav on June 20th, 2018, 01:18 PM
... coupled to a signal generator to drive the primary that way.
Getting that first waveform out of my signal generator is pretty easy.  The clipped wave will take a little more work.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #15,  »
Nav, can you explain or demonstrate this portion of your quote above:
Quote
In the operation of the invention active bubble electrolysis of water is initiated following Stage B, phase 3 by setting (automatically) the output of Component I to:  I = 1m A., E = 22VAC-rms,  causing the rippled square wave pulses to disappear with the appearance of a rippled sawtooth wave. The basic frequency of the carrier now becomes, fc = 3980 Hz.
I'm rather curious as to what is happening to cause the square wave to transmute into a sawtooth wave and the frequency to migrate from 5000 Hz to 3980 Hz.

nav

Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #16,  »
Quote from Matt Watts on June 20th, 2018, 03:51 PM
Nav, can you explain or demonstrate this portion of your quote above:
I'm rather curious as to what is happening to cause the square wave to transmute into a sawtooth wave and the frequency to migrate from 5000 Hz to 3980 Hz.
Matt i'm in the process of doing some testing myself and I figure the best way is to approach this in the following way: Puharich uses an audio modulation on an AC carrier wave much like the signal you've created, he doesn't need to gate his signal because the carrier wave is acting as the gate and he claims that the signal half rectifies itself during the resonant condition. Stan has a very different approach, he uses a H-bridge configuration which can be manipulated with either a square wave driver or a sine wave driver. Petrov shows us that Stan has a H-bridge on several of his devices which means basically that the signal going into the primary of the VIC in both Puharich's and Stan's design is a sine wave.
Here is what i'm planning to do firstly:- We can do this in two ways, we can create the complex sine wave with a signal generator like you have done then output it through an H-bridge into a 1:1 audio transformer with just a few volts then monitor the response of the transformer on the scope into a reactive load. We can then monitor the same configuration through a diode into a reactive load. In this way we will see what signal Puharich's AM carrier and modulation has after the secondary of a VIC at readable voltage.
The other slightly different way is what Petrov does, he uses a H-bridge to create a really nice sine wave then he gates it seperately and ends up with a really massive ramped up voltage in his VIC. You could do the same as Petrov but not use a VIC but a 1:1 audio transformer and monitor the lower voltages on the scope. What we are looking for are the differences between using a carrier wave or a gate to the signal after it emerges from a diode into a reactive load. Matt I have no idea how Puharich's 5khz turned into 3980hz, I was quoting from his patent. He states that the capacitive nature of water reduces the frequency of both the modulation and the carrier somehow.
 
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #17,  »Last edited
So if we set the modulation frequency to 2500hz and the carrier wave to 300hz at the driver stage then scope the frequency coming out of the H-bridge and also the quality of the signal. Push the signal through an audio 1:1 transformer with a diode into any reactive load. The modulation  frequency should jump to 5khz and the carrier frequency should jump to 600hz. Something has to give! Because the carrier frequency has doubled, then effectively the time differential for the modulations will have halved, which is a reduced gate time in effect. If you reduce the gate time and the modulations become higher frequency then only one thing can happen: The whole trailing edge of the carrier wave will be wiped out and it's voltages will spike elsewhere and the lower 180 degree's of the signal will rectify into the upper 180 degree's but divided by 100% more positive voltage peaks. There is no energy created nor is then any destroyed, what you are doing is changing the dynamics of the signal and it's offset. Under a resonant condition, the voltage spikes will become very high due to the reactance of the system.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #18,  »Last edited
Matt, just read the patent again a learned an answer to one of your questions. The reason  Puharich talks about sawtooth wave is this: He always refers to his original carrier wave in parts of his patent, his carrier wave does actually revert into a sawtooth and so does Stan's. Look at the batch of positive pulses on Stan's VIC. It starts off at low voltage and then ramps up to an higher voltage rising with each pulse, eventually it reaches it's highest voltage amplitude then falls back down to the lowest voltage peak and starts again. The shape of that batch of resonant pulses is actually the shape of a rising sawetooth. Puharich describes Stan's step charge shape and dynamics as a sawtooth carrier wave and when you think about it he is correct. Each step charge event from start to finish has a frequency, Stan determines this with the gate, Puharich doesn't, he uses the carrier wave of his signal to determine his sawtooth wave. You created  Puharich's signal with your sig gen which you posted, that group of sinusoidal pulses you posted together with its carrier wave will determine the step charge and sawtooth at resonance. Same idea by two different men with the same outcome.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #19,  »
If Stan didn't use a gate and a diode, his VIC signal would be either a normal sine wave of equal voltage amplitude across the signal or it would look like the signal you created in your sig gen Matt. It depends how he drives the primary. Watch Petkov's video of when he gates the output from an H-bridge compared to ungated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namRpMcrd84
Notice that under closer inspection that the step charging effect is still sinusoidal and not half rectified like Stan shows on diagrams in his step charge effect. The resonance taking place is ignoring the diode and is a sine wave and I found this out during my own experiments. There is a reason for this and it took me a long time to figure it out but it's important: It is a sinusoidal wave because at no time does it drop below the dc offset, because it is Unipolar the diode between the secondary coil and the positive choke has no effect in that resonant action. All the diode does in that respect is to define an end to the inductive nature of the positive choke. The resonance is not linear around the entire VIC, it only takes place as a push pull between the cell and the positive choke.
Re: Andrija Puharich's work suggests glass dielectric
« Reply #20,  »Last edited
This leads to new discoveries. Where current is minimum and a resonant condition occurs above the dc offset, voltage can oscillate in the positive zone without interference from the negative side of the VIC. Petkov could have improved the signal he created on the video, if he reduced his gate time by increasing the gate frequency he could chop off that trailing edge which is discharging his cell. Stan realised that if you time the gate to perfection and you get the dc offset correct then you won't discharge the cell through it's own resonance. The nature of the beast is that the cell and positive choke will always try to become resonant (LC), where you chop and rectify such resonance doesn't stop it trying to do so, it just changes the dynamics of the signal. If you get the dynamics right and kill the resonance when it's at CVM (capacitance voltage maximum) then you win the war.