Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic

Davecbwfc

Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« on January 17th, 2012, 02:00 PM »


My friend is getting some U cores made if enough people are interested. Check out his post here
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2111.40.html

Message him or post here if you are interested.

The core perm is 3000 and the cost will be $110 before shipping

chris

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #1, on January 17th, 2012, 08:27 PM »
Quote from Davecbwfc on January 17th, 2012, 02:00 PM
My friend is getting some U cores made if enough people are interested. Check out his post here
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2111.40.html

Message him or post here if you are interested.

The core perm is 3000 and the cost will be $110 before shipping
I am interested how do I go about buying or paying?  I do not have paypal had some bad experiences with them.  It sounds like a good deal since trying to find a place to them has been difficult so far.  Would like one for now for testing.
Thanks
Chris

Davecbwfc

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #2, on January 19th, 2012, 10:56 AM »Last edited on January 19th, 2012, 11:36 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from chris on January 17th, 2012, 08:27 PM
Quote from Davecbwfc on January 17th, 2012, 02:00 PM
My friend is getting some U cores made if enough people are interested. Check out his post here
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2111.40.html

Message him or post here if you are interested.

The core perm is 3000 and the cost will be $110 before shipping
I am interested how do I go about buying or paying?  I do not have paypal had some bad experiences with them.  It sounds like a good deal since trying to find a place to them has been difficult so far.  Would like one for now for testing.
Thanks
Chris
Contact "Joshua Zapadenko" zapjoshua@gmail.com He is the guy having the cores made.

chris

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #3, on January 19th, 2012, 07:08 PM »
Thanks I emailed him

~Russ

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #4, on January 19th, 2012, 11:38 PM »
Quote from Davecbwfc on January 19th, 2012, 10:56 AM
Quote from chris on January 17th, 2012, 08:27 PM
Quote from Davecbwfc on January 17th, 2012, 02:00 PM
My friend is getting some U cores made if enough people are interested. Check out his post here
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2111.40.html

Message him or post here if you are interested.

The core perm is 3000 and the cost will be $110 before shipping
I am interested how do I go about buying or paying?  I do not have paypal had some bad experiences with them.  It sounds like a good deal since trying to find a place to them has been difficult so far.  Would like one for now for testing.
Thanks
Chris
Contact "Joshua Zapadenko" zapjoshua@gmail.com He is the guy having the cores made.
i took off his phone number , just in case, email is good! lol he would be getting bombarded with phone calls. haha same for my number... no public posting! lol ~Russ

securesupplies

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #5, on March 14th, 2012, 05:24 AM »Last edited on March 14th, 2012, 05:30 AM by securesupplies
Hi everyone,
(this is a repost from other forum)

Please comment .  So we are firm on core and source.

I'm new to this forum and I too am looking for core material to use with my experiments. I found something that may be of interest to the forum. I'm fairly sure I've identified the "E" core Stan was either using or planning to using on one of his bi-filler wound coils. Looking at this photo:



The upper most E core in the picture has a part number which reads OP48020???

I looked up Magnetics, Booneville, AR and found this company profile:

http://start.cortera.com/company/research/k3j0srk3j/magnetics/

Following the link to Magnetics, I then tried several different searches until at last I searched for "4802" without the OP and got this result:

http://www.mag-inc.com/home/Advanced-Search-Results?pn=4802

The first part number is for a ferrite E core part number OP48020EC

The permeability is 2,500 and capable of fairly high frequencies. Could this be a clue as to what direction was heading? Has this been noticed before and I just haven't found it in another post already? In any case I'd love to read some thoughts on this.

Quote from securesupplies on March 14th, 2012, 05:24 AM
Hi everyone,
(this is a repost from other forum)

Please comment .  So we are firm on core and source.

I'm new to this forum and I too am looking for core material to use with my experiments. I found something that may be of interest to the forum. I'm fairly sure I've identified the "E" core Stan was either using or planning to using on one of his bi-filler wound coils. Looking at this photo:



The upper most E core in the picture has a part number which reads OP48020???

I looked up Magnetics, Booneville, AR and found this company profile:

http://start.cortera.com/company/research/k3j0srk3j/magnetics/

Following the link to Magnetics, I then tried several different searches until at last I searched for "4802" without the OP and got this result:

http://www.mag-inc.com/home/Advanced-Search-Results?pn=4802

The first part number is for a ferrite E core part number OP48020EC

The permeability is 2,500 and capable of fairly high frequencies. Could this be a clue as to what direction was heading? Has this been noticed before and I just haven't found it in another post already? In any case I'd love to read some thoughts on this.
RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #6, on March 14th, 2012, 10:53 AM »Last edited on March 14th, 2012, 11:39 AM by securesupplies
Silicon Steel  (Electrical Steel)
When low carbon steel is alloyed with small quantities of silicon, the added  volume resistivity helps to reduce eddy current losses in the core.  Silicon
steels are probably of the most use to designers of motion control products
where the additional cost is justified by the increased performance.  These
steels are available in an array of grades and thicknesses so that the material may be tailored for various applications.  The added silicon has a marked impact on the life of stamping tooling, and the surface insulation selected also affects die life.  Silicon steels are generally specified and selected on the basis of allowable core loss in watts/lb.

The grades are called out, in increasing order of core loss by M numbers,
such as M19, M27, M36 or M43, with each grade specifying a maximum  core loss.  (Note that this means that material can be substituted up , as M19 for M36, but not vice versa.) The higher M numbers (and thus higher core losses) are progressively lower cost, although only a few percent is saved with each step down in performance.  M19 is probably the most common grade for motion control products, as it offers nearly the lowest core loss in this class of material, with only a small cost impact, particularly in low to medium production quantities.
In addition to grade, there are a number of other decisions to make regarding silicon steels.  These are:

1. Semi vs. Fully processed material,
2. Annealing after stamping,
3. Material Thickness,
4. Surface insulation.

  Fully processed material is simply material which has been annealed
to optimum properties at the steel mill.  Semi processed material always
requires annealing after stamping in order to remove excess carbon as well as to stress relieve.  The better grades of silicon steel are always supplied fully processed while semi processed is available only in grades M43 and worse.  The designer considering semi processed M43 should evaluate Low Carbon Steel which may provide equivalent performance at lower cost.

Even though annealed at the mill, fully processed material may require further stress relief anneal after stamping.  The stresses introduced during punching degrade the material properties around the edges of the lamination, and must be removed to obtain maximum performance.  This is
particularly true for parts with narrow sections, or where very high flux
density is required.  In one instance, a tachometer manufacturer was able to
reduce the stack height in his product by 10% by annealing after stamping.  The annealing cycle requires a temperature of 1350-1450 F in a non oxidizing, non carburizing atmosphere. Endothermic, nitrogen, and vacuum atmospheres all work well. The selection of lamination thickness is a fairly
straightforward trade off of core loss versus cost.  Thinner laminations exhibit lower losses (particularly as frequency increases), but thinner material is more expensive initially, and more laminations are required for a given stack height.  The most common thicknesses are .014 in., .0185 in., and .025 in. (29 Gauge, 26 Gauge, and 24 Gauge, respectively.)  These thicknesses are supplemented by thin electrical steels, available in .002, .004, and .007 in. thick.  Thin electrical steels are available in one grade (Equivalent to M19) and are made by re-rolling standard silicon steel.  Due to substantially higher material cost, thin electrical steel is used primarily for high performance and high frequency applications.  In order to gain full advantage from a laminated core, the laminations must be insulated from one another.  The simplest way to do this is to specify a surface insulation on the raw material.  Silicon steels are available with several types of insulation:
--C-0:
Also called bare, or oxide coated.  This is a thin, tightly adherent oxide
coating put on the material at the steel mill, or during the annealing process
after stamping. This is the lowest cost insulation, but offers little
resistance.
--C-3:
Enamel or varnish coating which offers excellent insulation, but parts so
coated cannot be annealed after stamping.
--C-4:An inorganic coating providing higher resistance than C-0, but which will withstand annealing temperatures.
--C-5:
An improved inorganic coating similar to  C-4 but with significantly higher
resistance. It withstands annealing well in most cases.  This is probably the
best choice for most performance sensitive applications.  The main drawback to C-5 is  an increase in tool wear due to abrasiveness.
=======================================
note for the above .

you can purchase the M27 laminates here at the following website...I contacted them a while back and if I remember right you can get enough to make 10 - 15 cores for around $150.  http://www.protolam.com/page7.html
Logged
-Tony Woodside-
http://www.globalkast.com
WFC Research


From Tony Woodside Repost

Proto Laminations Inc.
13666 E. Bora Dr.
Phone:             562-926-4777      
Santa Fe Springs CA 90670  USA
Fax: 562-404-1650   
sales@protolam.com

All not in the right bottom of picture is a box from
Parker Company I did a search for parker cores and  motor core came up.

Also there is a possible part number on box
please contact them and post here if success
Parker Box in right of picture

Possible Part number
Part no 4-5 F50X-55
Contact Information
    Toll-free number
    U.S., Canada, Mexico
                1-800-272-7537      
      Freephone : Europe
    from AT, BE, CH, CZ, DE, DK, EE, ES, FI, FR, IE, IL, IS, IT, LU, MT, NL, NO, PL, PT, RU, SE, SK, UK, ZA
    00800 27 27 5374
     AOG (Aircraft on Ground)
                1-949-851-4357    

~Russ

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #7, on March 14th, 2012, 10:11 PM »Last edited on March 14th, 2012, 10:26 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from securesupplies on March 14th, 2012, 10:53 AM
Silicon Steel  (Electrical Steel)
When low carbon steel is alloyed with small quantities of silicon, the added  volume resistivity helps to reduce eddy current losses in the core.  Silicon
steels are probably of the most use to designers of motion control products
where the additional cost is justified by the increased performance.  These
steels are available in an array of grades and thicknesses so that the material may be tailored for various applications.  The added silicon has a marked impact on the life of stamping tooling, and the surface insulation selected also affects die life.  Silicon steels are generally specified and selected on the basis of allowable core loss in watts/lb.

The grades are called out, in increasing order of core loss by M numbers,
such as M19, M27, M36 or M43, with each grade specifying a maximum  core loss.  (Note that this means that material can be substituted up , as M19 for M36, but not vice versa.) The higher M numbers (and thus higher core losses) are progressively lower cost, although only a few percent is saved with each step down in performance.  M19 is probably the most common grade for motion control products, as it offers nearly the lowest core loss in this class of material, with only a small cost impact, particularly in low to medium production quantities.
In addition to grade, there are a number of other decisions to make regarding silicon steels.  These are:

1. Semi vs. Fully processed material,
2. Annealing after stamping,
3. Material Thickness,
4. Surface insulation.

  Fully processed material is simply material which has been annealed
to optimum properties at the steel mill.  Semi processed material always
requires annealing after stamping in order to remove excess carbon as well as to stress relieve.  The better grades of silicon steel are always supplied fully processed while semi processed is available only in grades M43 and worse.  The designer considering semi processed M43 should evaluate Low Carbon Steel which may provide equivalent performance at lower cost.

Even though annealed at the mill, fully processed material may require further stress relief anneal after stamping.  The stresses introduced during punching degrade the material properties around the edges of the lamination, and must be removed to obtain maximum performance.  This is
particularly true for parts with narrow sections, or where very high flux
density is required.  In one instance, a tachometer manufacturer was able to
reduce the stack height in his product by 10% by annealing after stamping.  The annealing cycle requires a temperature of 1350-1450 F in a non oxidizing, non carburizing atmosphere. Endothermic, nitrogen, and vacuum atmospheres all work well. The selection of lamination thickness is a fairly
straightforward trade off of core loss versus cost.  Thinner laminations exhibit lower losses (particularly as frequency increases), but thinner material is more expensive initially, and more laminations are required for a given stack height.  The most common thicknesses are .014 in., .0185 in., and .025 in. (29 Gauge, 26 Gauge, and 24 Gauge, respectively.)  These thicknesses are supplemented by thin electrical steels, available in .002, .004, and .007 in. thick.  Thin electrical steels are available in one grade (Equivalent to M19) and are made by re-rolling standard silicon steel.  Due to substantially higher material cost, thin electrical steel is used primarily for high performance and high frequency applications.  In order to gain full advantage from a laminated core, the laminations must be insulated from one another.  The simplest way to do this is to specify a surface insulation on the raw material.  Silicon steels are available with several types of insulation:
--C-0:
Also called bare, or oxide coated.  This is a thin, tightly adherent oxide
coating put on the material at the steel mill, or during the annealing process
after stamping. This is the lowest cost insulation, but offers little
resistance.
--C-3:
Enamel or varnish coating which offers excellent insulation, but parts so
coated cannot be annealed after stamping.
--C-4:An inorganic coating providing higher resistance than C-0, but which will withstand annealing temperatures.
--C-5:
An improved inorganic coating similar to  C-4 but with significantly higher
resistance. It withstands annealing well in most cases.  This is probably the
best choice for most performance sensitive applications.  The main drawback to C-5 is  an increase in tool wear due to abrasiveness.
=======================================
note for the above .

you can purchase the M27 laminates here at the following website...I contacted them a while back and if I remember right you can get enough to make 10 - 15 cores for around $150.  http://www.protolam.com/page7.html
Logged
-Tony Woodside-
http://www.globalkast.com
WFC Research


From Tony Woodside Repost
Proto Laminations Inc.
13666 E. Bora Dr.
Phone:             562-926-4777      
Santa Fe Springs CA 90670  USA
Fax: 562-404-1650   
sales@protolam.com
All not in the right bottom of picture is a box from
Parker Company I did a search for parker cores and  motor core came up.

Also there is a possible part number on box
please contact them and post here if success
Parker Box in right of picture

Possible Part number
Part no 4-5 F50X-55
Contact Information
    Toll-free number
    U.S., Canada, Mexico
                1-800-272-7537      
      Freephone : Europe
    from AT, BE, CH, CZ, DE, DK, EE, ES, FI, FR, IE, IL, IS, IT, LU, MT, NL, NO, PL, PT, RU, SE, SK, UK, ZA
    00800 27 27 5374
     AOG (Aircraft on Ground)
                1-949-851-4357
from waht i understand this will not work? is this correct? whats the max perm this (Electrical Steel) can be? i thought it was low?  

according to here its 4000? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29

thoughts?

tony mentioned to me he was using 2000 perm and his values are a bout twice  what they should be?

but, can we assume that if everything is twice what it should be we should  use perm of 1000?

that's the question i need answered . is the permeability and inductance proportional? or on a curve? i mean we cant assume that if we want half the inductance we should just get half the perm right?

basically i have both air core and steel core.. with those inductance values we should be able to calculate the perm if we know the scale? but if its not linear, we will need to know the curve to calculate the perm we need??? any one have any answers?  
~Russ

Brett Nichols

RE: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #8, on April 10th, 2012, 02:12 PM »
Gentelmen,
I am working on verifying circuits based on Stan's work and following the progress on coils with much interest. Having read these posts, I am somewhat confused. I was under the impression that only ferrite cores are suitable for the high frequencies needed for resonance. Did I miss something?

securesupplies

Re: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #9, on July 13th, 2016, 01:48 AM »
Quote from ~Russ on March 14th, 2012, 10:11 PM
from waht i understand this will not work? is this correct? whats the max perm this (Electrical Steel) can be? i thought it was low? 

according to here its 4000? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29

thoughts?

tony mentioned to me he was using 2000 perm and his values are a bout twice  what they should be?

but, can we assume that if everything is twice what it should be we should  use perm of 1000?

that's the question i need answered . is the permeability and inductance proportional? or on a curve? i mean we cant assume that if we want half the inductance we should just get half the perm right?

basically i have both air core and steel core.. with those inductance values we should be able to calculate the perm if we know the scale? but if its not linear, we will need to know the curve to calculate the perm we need??? any one have any answers? 
~Russ
Since this was A while ago do we have a update on that point , since this post you did make a bobbin and core how did it measure on perm?

X-Blade

Re: Custom made U cores for Stan Meyer vic
« Reply #10, on July 15th, 2016, 10:12 AM »
when you put the 2 parts of the core away you can adjust the permeability. add a small gap at one side and its done,