Transformer Question

Matt Watts

Transformer Question
« on February 15th, 2017, 10:35 AM »Last edited on February 15th, 2017, 11:03 AM
I'm not sure how many people here on this forum have researched Chris Sykes and his Partnered Output Coils but I'd like to ask the members here a very direct (should be simple to answer) question:

If you wind a transformer with a single primary and two identical secondaries and connect the secondaries together so they are out of phase, do you in effect create a condition of infinite current?


Let me add a little more detail so people can better visualize what I mean.

Let's suppose this transformer has 400 turns on the primary and each secondary has 100 turns.  So this is clearly a step-down 4:1 transformer.  Now we connect the two secondaries together, out of phase.   One might think you would get a big spark and smoke when you do this, but you won't.  Let's think for a minute why...

If we wind 100 turns clockwise on an inductor then change directions and wind another 100 turns counter clockwise, effectively we have no inductance.  The 100 turns we wound to create the magnetic field we just cancelled by winding another 100 turns in the opposite direction.  So we have a net zero magnetic field induced into the core of this inductor.  Now let's go back to the transformer scenario.

We know about transformer turns ratio right?  A four-to-one step-down transformer should reduce the voltage to 25% of what we started with and boost the amperage by four times.  So if we have the two secondaries connected in bucking configuration, the effective turns count on the secondary (output) side is zero.  Which means the voltage output is zero.  But wouldn't that imply the current is infinite?

And what does the primary see with this configuration?

It should see nothing because effectively there are no turns on the secondary--they all cancel out.  So this transformer now behaves like a simple inductor with no secondaries at all.  Any power you feed into this device is all returned, i.e. completely reactive.

Okay, if you agree with me so far (because you have done the experiments), what does infinite current mean?  What can we do with it?  If we were able to mix voltage with that current in-phase, would we again have real power?  And lots of it?  After all, just a tiny bit of voltage times infinite current is a lot of volt-amps right?

Now lets look a little more in-depth.  Suppose the primary was wound with tiny wire, 400 turns and the DC resistance was 100 ohms.  If we fed this primary with 10 volts peak-to-peak, by Ohm's Law, the primary could never draw more than 100 milli-amps.  One tenth of an amp times 10 volts is one volt-amp or if in-phase one watt.  So we have on the input PMAX equal to 1 watt.  But on the output side we know the amps are infinite, we just don't have any voltage to go with it.

If we can find a method to mix some voltage with that current and do it in-phase, would we not have real power?

And if this real power exceeds one watt, are we COP > 1 or generally speaking overunity?



Having said all that, think about a scenario with two separate transformers, each with one primary and one secondary.  If power to each primary is synchronized and we connect the two secondaries together out-of-phase, we do in fact get a big spark, smoke and all the rest that goes with transformer destruction.  The question to ask yourself is why with one primary and one core you don't, but with two primaries and two cores you do?

Can a hybrid be made with two C-cores (and gap); each core leg having a secondary?  Maybe just a single primary that sits centered on the gap.  What we want is the primary to behave as though there are no secondaries, so all reflected power is reactive on the input side and limited by the winding resistance, but on the output side we would like the infinite current plus the in-phase voltage.

I don't know about everyone else, but I see a strong correlation between this proposed transformer design and that of Stan Meyer's VIC.  Infinite current with just the right amount of voltage will certainly split water.  I wonder...   Do you suppose the high voltages we see with Stan's VIC is actually the reactance of the cell, meaning we hit the water with current, the molecules split, electrons fly out and the scope sees these electrons as voltage?

I do wonder...

Ris

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #1, on February 16th, 2017, 10:39 AM »
 do no wonder for finding a solution you have to think very hard

Enrg4life

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #2, on February 16th, 2017, 02:46 PM »

I don't know about everyone else, but I see a strong correlation between this proposed transformer design and that of Stan Meyer's VIC.  Infinite current with just the right amount of voltage will certainly split water.  I wonder...   Do you suppose the high voltages we see with Stan's VIC is actually the reactance of the cell, meaning we hit the water with current, the molecules split, electrons fly out and the scope sees these electrons as voltage?

I do wonder...



UMMM  If somebody had a working cell maybe we could figure out a way to test this great thought.

Matt Watts

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #3, on February 16th, 2017, 03:17 PM »
Quote from Enrg4life on February 16th, 2017, 02:46 PM
UMMM  If somebody had a working cell maybe we could figure out a way to test this great thought.
And to add a little more fuel to the fire, does the same thing happen with an empty/dry cell?  Does the infinite current create a plasma and we see/detect the voltage that flies out from that reaction?

Enrg4life

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #4, on February 16th, 2017, 04:26 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on February 16th, 2017, 03:17 PM
And to add a little more fuel to the fire, does the same thing happen with an empty/dry cell?  Does the infinite current create a plasma and we see/detect the voltage that flies out from that reaction?
How about putting a small floresant light bulbin there and see if it lights up without a direct connection, kind of like an inductive high voltage detector

Matt Watts

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #5, on February 16th, 2017, 06:30 PM »
As Ronnie has stated, it does.  The question is does it light up from the cause or the effect?

Enrg4life

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #6, on February 17th, 2017, 03:25 PM »
Quote from Enrg4life on February 16th, 2017, 02:46 PM
I don't know about everyone else, but I see a strong correlation between this proposed transformer design and that of Stan Meyer's VIC.  Infinite current with just the right amount of voltage will certainly split water.  I wonder...   Do you suppose the high voltages we see with Stan's VIC is actually the reactance of the cell, meaning we hit the water with current, the molecules split, electrons fly out and the scope sees these electrons as voltage?

I do wonder...



Referring the Formula Volts= Amps x Resistance. We are used to using  this formula in cunsuming electricity.So if you  think about the reverse process it would make sense that when creating  excess electricity any moving electrons would register as voltage.So are these split molecule electrons adding to the  system voltage that is  present ?.....How to test for that?

Cycle

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #7, on February 17th, 2017, 04:20 PM »Last edited on February 17th, 2017, 04:23 PM by Cycle
Quote from Enrg4life on February 16th, 2017, 04:26 PM
How about putting a small fluorescent light bulb in there and see if it lights up without a direct connection, kind of like an inductive high voltage detector
Quote from Matt Watts on February 16th, 2017, 06:30 PM
As Ronnie has stated, it does.  The question is does it light up from the cause or the effect?
If that's the case, and if the transformer primary consumes no power other than the 100 mA in your example, then could one put a coil near the secondary, tuned to resonate at the frequency used, to draw power out of the secondary, without increasing power consumption in the primary?

A form of wireless power transfer (kind of like what Tesla was doing), but without requiring additional power input other than that required to keep the primary pumped at the frequency desired.

Matt Watts

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #8, on February 17th, 2017, 05:08 PM »Last edited on February 17th, 2017, 05:18 PM
Attached is some material for your viewing pleasure.  If you are able to decipher some of the more intricate details, it becomes clear there are at least three categories of electrical fields.  One is directly responsible for the primary phenomena in a transformer.  Another one is something we rarely look at in a transformer but is common in a generator; the third is what we might term electrostatics.


mercury101

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #9, on February 17th, 2017, 08:32 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on February 16th, 2017, 03:17 PM
And to add a little more fuel to the fire, does the same thing happen with an empty/dry cell?  Does the infinite current create a plasma and we see/detect the voltage that flies out from that reaction?
Plasma of air (4th state of a material) would only happen when potential overcomes the resistance of the air.  But this thought also reflects some of tesla info.
Interesting to say the least.
Hmm mm.  I like it

Merc

mercury101

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #10, on February 17th, 2017, 08:35 PM »
Hmm can't download on my phone to read !

Bummer!

Merc

Webmug

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #11, on February 19th, 2017, 07:29 AM »
Quote from Enrg4life on February 16th, 2017, 02:46 PM


I don't know about everyone else, but I see a strong correlation between this proposed transformer design and that of Stan Meyer's VIC.  Infinite current with just the right amount of voltage will certainly split water.  I wonder...   Do you suppose the high voltages we see with Stan's VIC is actually the reactance of the cell, meaning we hit the water with current, the molecules split, electrons fly out and the scope sees these electrons as voltage?

I do wonder...



UMMM  If somebody had a working cell maybe we could figure out a way to test this great thought.
Infinite current is the opposite what Meyers wrote. Only voltage.

You need to go back to page zero and (re)read Meyers information!

~webmug

Matt Watts

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #12, on February 19th, 2017, 10:11 AM »
Quote from Webmug on February 19th, 2017, 07:29 AM
Infinite current is the opposite what Meyers wrote. Only voltage.
In some of the very old readings I looked at by the masters of their time, one gets the impression they used the terms voltage and current opposite to how we think of them today.  Terms like potential, pressure and capacity.  It's easy to assume what we think they meant, but nearly impossible to be certain.

I guess it all depends on what foundation Stan used.

Anyway, there may be no correlation, but I found it interesting.

If one were to wind a transformer with bucking coils for the primary instead of the secondary, I suppose you reverse the turns ratio equation and have the condition of infinite voltage on the secondary side which appears to be more inline with what Stan said, only the transformer then looks quite different from the VIC.

Webmug

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #13, on February 19th, 2017, 10:46 AM »Last edited on March 4th, 2017, 07:00 AM
Quote from Matt Watts on February 19th, 2017, 10:11 AM
In some of the very old readings I looked at by the masters of their time, one gets the impression they used the terms voltage and current opposite to how we think of them today.  Terms like potential, pressure and capacity.  It's easy to assume what we think they meant, but nearly impossible to be certain.

I guess it all depends on what foundation Stan used.

Anyway, there may be no correlation, but I found it interesting.

If one were to wind a transformer with bucking coils for the primary instead of the secondary, I suppose you reverse the turns ratio equation and have the condition of infinite voltage on the secondary side which appears to be more inline with what Stan said, only the transformer then looks quite different from the VIC.
Quote from webmug link=http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23290.html#msg23290
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2012, 23:01:26 pm »
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23290.html#msg23290

 "single fluid theory"


Electrons and Ben Franklin


    Ben Franklin's "single fluid theory" showed that
    a given body possessing a normal amount of
    electric fluid was called neutral. During the
    process of charging, the fluid was transferred
    from one body to the other; the body with the
    deficiency being charged minus and the body
    with the excess charged plus . But no fluid is
    lost. Ben's "single fluid theory" led to the
    electron theory in 1900: electrons move about
    conductors much as a fluid might move.


CURRENT ELECTRICITY IS THE OPPOSITE OF STATIC ELECTRICITY? Wrong.
"Static Electricity" appears whenever the negative charges within matter are separated from the positive charges. "Current" appears whenever the negative charges within matter are made to flow through the positive charges (or when positive flows through negative.) "Static" and "Current" are two separate kinds of events, they are not opposites.


    "Static" is a separation; it is a stretching-apart, and it really has little to do with anything remaining static or stationary.


    "Current" is a flowing motion. It has little to do with the separation of opposite charges.


"Static electricity" was misnamed, and it really should be called "charge separation" or maybe "stretched" or "pressurized" electricity. Since stretch is not the opposite of flow, Static is not the opposite of Current. And athough electric current really exists and electric charge really exists, there is no such material as either "current electricity" or "static electricity." See http://amasci.com/miscon/curstat2.html on this topic.
Quote
Magnetic Field Coupling (71) of Figure (7-9) entering into and passing through Secondary Coil-winding (52) of Figure (7-8) causes and produces copper ions (643a xxx 643n) (Positive Charged atoms 542a xxx 542n having missing electrons) when moving external electromagnetic field strength (71a xxx 7In) is sufficient enough to dislodge electromagnetically charged electrons (64Ia xxx 64In) from copper atoms making up copper wire material (52). Collectively, the resultant positive electrical charged copper ions (642a xxx 642n) added together produces Positive Voltage Potential (629) being electrically applied to choke-coil (56); whereas, the "Liberated" negative electrical charged electrons (64Ia xxx 64In) added together provides Negative Voltage Potential (631) to the opposite end of Secondary Wire (52) being electrically connected to choke coil (62). Once Secondary Coil-winding (52) is de-energized by the removal (collapsing magnetic field during pulse off-time T2 of external Magnetic Field (71), the dislodged electrons (641a xx 641n) return to positive charged copper ions (642a xx 642n) ... terminating and switching off opposite voltage potential (629 - 631) when positive electrical state of the copper atoms changes back to net electrical charge of zero. Sustaining and maintaining the resultant induced Voltage Potential (Vo - Vn) without "Electron Discharged" (inhibiting electron flow) through Choke Coil (62) while, at the same time, inhibiting (preventing) any additional or other electrons from entering into Secondary copper wire-zone (52) by way of Choke Coil (56) is herein called "Electron Bounce Phenomenon" (EbP), as illustrated in (700) of Figure (7-9).
Quote
Note 1) The Electron Inhibiting Effect (631) of Figure (7-6) to cause "Electron Clustering" (Grouping/collecting negative charged particles at a given point) (700) of Figure (7-9) to produce ''Negative Voltage Potential" ( B- ) at one side of Water Gap (Cp) of Figure (7-8) is accomplished by low electrical power input (Tab 38) when Choke-Coil (62) of Figure (7-1) magnetic field (FL2) (690) of Figure (7-8) during pulse on-time (49) impede "Electron-Flow" since electron mass is composed of electromagnetic matter which interacts with magnetic field strength (FL2). Capacitance Charging Effect (628) prevents amp influxing away from Water Gap (Cp) in a similar manner ... producing "Electrical Stress" (SS' - RR') (B+/B-) across Water Gap (Cp) since both Choke-Coils (56/62) conducts voltage potential (Negative or Positive) during pulsing operations.
Regards

Webmug

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #14, on March 6th, 2017, 11:02 AM »

sebosfato

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #15, on March 6th, 2017, 04:03 PM »Last edited on March 6th, 2017, 04:09 PM
To be quick i would just tell you that you wont have infinite current if your voltage is zero... current is result of voltage applied into a circuit... if you have zero voltage you have zero current...

i created a thread into the ionizationx forum because after i read this document i had a different idea than is presented at this document, i wondered about using two primaries... go there check it out if you want...

this idea of parthner output coil is a little non sense;;;

however i found a reason and method that using two primaries and two pulsing switches where maybe something interesting could happen...

good luck

Matt Watts

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #16, on March 7th, 2017, 11:00 PM »
Quote from sebosfato on March 6th, 2017, 04:03 PM
this idea of parthner output coil is a little non sense;;;
Of itself, you may be correct, but as I have recently posted in other threads, there may be an avenue we can pursue that will result in a few success stories.


Just so people know, I'm not trying to lead people all over the map with my posts.  This is a learning process and as I see possibilities that may be of interest, I post them.  There are probably many posts of mine more than a year old that are completely useless random thoughts.  I apologize for this.  I could probably go back and clean a lot of this up, however, it is a record of my thinking process; for some this may be just as useful as the final answer, whatever that may turn out to be.

sebosfato

Re: Transformer Question
« Reply #17, on March 8th, 2017, 06:54 AM »
Hey Matt i didnt wanted to disrespect you anyway... we can believe in different things... the reason why i think the output coil is not very relevant is because output coil only create a magnetic field flux that cancel the original so it does not matter how many coils you have they will not impeed the power from going away nor will this flux be greater then the initial... so i wondered about how we are energizing the coils today and i had this idea and i never saw anyone trying the waveform i presented... so im investigating that..

Me too have 3000 posts with many useless info around hope one day i have the time to delete some too so people can read it more easily only what is good and meaning.