"Charge Separation" in a fluid medium.

chuff1

"Charge Separation" in a fluid medium.
« on February 7th, 2016, 09:47 PM »Last edited on February 7th, 2016, 10:03 PM
After contemplating my idea on a new battery concept based on the "Flow battery", I had a

wonderful idea. This Link is the diagram that

was drawn up to convey the idea. Now to give you some insight on the mechanics of the design

here are a few links to diagrams that can explain it in greater detail than words. 

This Patent shows in figures 6 on page 4 how you can divert charged ions of air

using a battery for charging the capacity with either a negative or positive charge.  This diagram shows

how a charged particle or in this case (Ion) behaves in a magnetic field which is called the Lorentz force.   

This diagram shows how the particles behave in an electric field.

 The first thing that is needed is Ions, which can be easily created by adding Salt to water creating both

sodium ions (Na+) and chloride ions (Cl-).  Second is pumping this fluid through a tube and through the

magnetic field that is perpendicular to the flow of the fluid.  Third the magnetic field diverts the negative

and positive ions to their respective diversion tubes and the charge is picked up by the two collecting

electrodes, a portion of the charge is sent back up to the diversion electrodes to facilitate the separation

(a diode may have to be used to keep the current from back flowing)  Once the magnet starts the

process the electrodes take over in the diversion section and the collection of the energy may be

used for charging a capacitor or powering a load.   This idea brings to mind something Nikola Tesla

said later on in his years about using cosmic rays that ionize the air to charge

a capacitor and discharge it into a motor, but you would have to move a massive quantity of air to

pickup enough charge near the ground for it to be effective or use the device in the upper atmosphere.

If you created the ions in the ambient air using an ionizing source you may be able to get a substantial

charge but at the expense of the energy used to create the ions in the first place.  As for using an

electromagnet to create the magnetic field, there again you would be expending a great deal of energy

to do so thereby decreasing the efficiency of the system.  I have yet to experiment with the idea so some

modification of the wiring from the electrodes may be needed.   

thx1138v2

Re: "Charge Separation" in a fluid medium.
« Reply #1, on February 10th, 2016, 05:24 PM »
The charge separation of flowing water has been known for a long time. Lord Kelvin, I think, was the first to build a device utilizing it.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/homebrew.htm

Notice the buckets in the diagram at that link. The problem is in combining the two flows of liquid at some later point without having the charges neutralize each other back into the buckets. Tesla's "Valvular Conduit" might help in that.
https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-1329559-valvular-conduit

Your post got me thinking about Tesla's valvular conduit. I studied lead acid battery electrochemistry recently and looking at the Valvular Conduit it occurred to me that it might be possible to adapt it to your flow battery. This is just off the top of my head but you might consider looking into it.

Rather than use the valvular conduit body with a plate screwed to the top as shown in the patent make two mirror image valvular conduit bodies that bolt together. Make one body of lead and the other of lead oxide and use sulfuric acid electrolyte like is used in car batteries as your liquid. Each half of the assembled conduit would be an electrode. Of course, they would have to have some kind of insulating gasket between them and insulated holes for the bolts holding them together.

You wouldn't necessarily have to use lead, lead dioxide, and sulfuric acid. There may be more modern materials that would perform the electron transfer better.

BTW, ionizing the air to capture charge is exactly how a Franklin lightning rod works. The sharp point on the elevated end of the rod ionizes the air around that point. The ionized air gives the lightning an easier path to traverse so it goes to the rod and then through the attached conductor to the grounding system. The grounding system supplies the charge to cause the ionization at the point. That system actually actually attracts lightning. Tesla has a lightning protector that constantly works to keep the air and and ground charges balanced so that the lightning strike doesn't occur in the first place.
https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-1266175-lightning-protector

The point is, if you are going to build something like that be aware that any points, corners, edges, etc. can ionize the air and attract lightning to your device. Tesla's Radiant Energy Collector used an insulated elevated plate to capture cosmic rays. The insulation provides two functions. The first is that the corners of the plate aren't exposed to ionize the air and attract lightning. The second is that the metal plate that collects the charges of the rays is insulated from the air so the charges don't neutralize with charges in the air around it. I've built one but energy collected is miniscule. I calculated it would take about 20 acres of elevated plate to power a single family home. That could be reduced with higher elevations but it's still a huge project and not financially viable.
https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-685957-apparatus-utilization-radiant-energy