Hello


According to Peter Lindmann ebook: the solar secrets...

this my current project:
i have now:
an inverter 12volt in, 220volt out (50hz), 5000 watt

so we need:
*the solar panel (amorphous panel  is the right choice according to Peter advise)
*battery bank(Deep cycle)
*charge controller (the Tesla charger is a must!! )

How Much?

any alternative idea? (in order to compare the cost)

dont forget the wire connetions ''secrets''? :)
http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Best Regards
Ch

This setup should be very similar to large RV solar solutions.  A google of "RV Solar Power" has lots of possible leads.

I have also found some good resources here:
http://www.kansaswindpower.net/

If for no other reason, you can browse their products and get an idea what is available.

Hi Matt,

Its Nice To Hear From You!

Quote from Matt Watts on October 1st, 2014, 11:24 AM

This setup should be very similar to large RV solar solutions.  A google of "RV Solar Power" has lots of possible leads.

I have also found some good resources here:
http://www.kansaswindpower.net/

i cant find there email, so i will phone them about the 5kw setup cost?

Quote from Matt Watts on October 1st, 2014, 11:24 AM

If for no other reason, you can browse their products and get an idea what is available.

the problem with  the common MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) charge controller.
I think Peter was right in this
the battery needs 15.2v  or so to be fully charged, But the MPPT didnt allow this to happen?!

BUT i cant understand why
Tesla charge controller 5 of  12volt 160amp cost 3200$    (12*160=1920watt)
Tesla charge controller 5 system of 24volt 160amp cost the same3200$    (24*160=3840watt)

 Any reason for this?

Best Regards
Ch

Quote from toluc on October 1st, 2014, 03:01 PM

BUT i cant understand why
Tesla charge controller 5 of  12volt 160amp cost 3200$    (12*160=1920watt)
Tesla charge controller 5 system of 24volt 160amp cost the same3200$    (24*160=3840watt)

 Any reason for this?

Are you sure the 24 volt system isn't only 80 amps?  Typically higher voltage systems are cheaper per watt, but half the price?  Doesn't sound quite right.  The big amperage semi-conductors are usually the bulk of the cost.

I found it here:
http://teslachargers.com/teslasolartracker5.html

Battery Bank aH needed... 5000 (watts per day) / 24 (hours per day) * 20 (hours of battery life per day) = 4167 amp hours in the battery bank... so about 30 of these 140 aH...

Looks like the 12 volt and 24 volt systems are the same price for the same amperage.  Expensive--I would certainly get the higher voltage system in that case.  I would also look at getting multiple smaller charge controllers and grouping them into banks so you have some redundancy in case of a failure or when you need to perform some maintenance.  The 80 amp units are about half the price of the 160 amp units, so it makes perfect sense to do this.  It also falls in-line to start small and build up your system over time and as the need arises.  The sooner you can get something online, the sooner you can start getting something back from all your equipment.

Quote from Matt Watts on October 2nd, 2014, 10:32 AM

Looks like the 12 volt and 24 volt systems are the same price for the same amperage.

it didnt make sens?

first: its save to play with low voltage system

second:
with high voltage system, the more risk for batterys fails down

i email them....

its seems Very expensive!! is there any alternative?

rgds
toluc

Quote from toluc on October 2nd, 2014, 11:16 AM

it didnt make sens?

first: its save to play with low voltage system

second:
with high voltage system, the more risk for batterys fails down

i email them....

its seems Very expensive!! is there any alternative?

rgds
toluc

Higher voltage just means you connect the batteries in series rather than parallel.  Power inverters for higher voltage systems are also less expensive than low voltage ones for the same output wattage.

There are RV solar charge controllers available.  I'm not sure how well they compare with the Tesla Chargers though.
http://www.kansaswindpower.net/charge_controls.htm
https://rvsolarstore.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=35

The MPPT type controllers are the best way to go--waste very little power.

Quote from Matt Watts on October 2nd, 2014, 12:02 PM

Higher voltage just means you connect the batteries in series rather than parallel.

in theories yes, But in prctice there are more then series and/or parelell connection?

Quote from toluc on October 1st, 2014, 09:42 AM

dont forget the wire connetions ''secrets''? :)
http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Quote from Matt Watts on October 2nd, 2014, 12:02 PM

The MPPT type controllers are the best way to go--waste very little power.

From the graph of the designer that the voltage of a lead-acid battery will approach 15.2 volts as the charging process finishes.

this is the another ''little secret''  of the battery industry. by limiting the voltage that the most battery chargers provide to 14.6 volts, they know that the batteries will only last for a certain number of cycles, because a small amount of the sulfat  ions are (purposely)  bein left in the plates at the end of each charge.

in short
it looks like the solar industry is using the wrong solar panel technology, it is using the wrong charge controller technology, it is using the wrong inverter systems, and its blaming all of the subsequent problems on the batteries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ch,

I built what is termed an online UPS for some of my expensive equipment.  It uses an RV battery charger with an option that has four settings:
Boost (14.7volts), Run (14.2 volts), Reduced (13.6 volts), Float (13.2 volts).  These four settings cycle the batteries automatically to keep them in good condition with no sulfate.  In six years, all I have ever had to do is keep the battery cells topped off with distilled water.

This charger is 80 amps and keeps two large six volt golf cart batteries charged.  I then have an 1100 watt inverter hooked to the batteries to power the equipment.  So figure 80 amps at 13.9 volts, that's 1112 watts.  Which is pretty nicely balanced as long as the batteries are charged.  If they have been discharged and are coming back up, I can't pull anywhere near the full 1100 watts from the inverter.

If you substitute the RV charger I have with a solar charger, you would have a nice, though small little system that will run for years.  As long as the charger has the automatic cycling and never pushes the batteries so hard they heat up, those batteries will work for you a long time.  Two things:  Boiling a battery for about 15 minutes every day doesn't hurt them.  It doesn't overcharge them.  It is possible to overheat a battery which is bad.  That boiling period pushes all the sulfate off the plates.  The other thing is never, never, never let the water level get low to where the plates are exposed to air.  You let that happen and the batteries are shot.

Quote from Matt Watts on October 2nd, 2014, 09:24 PM

Ch,

I built what is termed an online UPS for some of my expensive equipment.  It uses an RV battery charger with an option that has four settings:
Boost (14.7volts), Run (14.2 volts), Reduced (13.6 volts), Float (13.2 volts).  These four settings cycle the batteries automatically to keep them in good condition with no sulfate.  In six years, all I have ever had to do is keep the battery cells topped off with distilled water.

not sure if i understand this very well?

so any suggetion about our project? for 5kw from solar panel??? ( we have  an inverter 12volt in /220 out/50hz/ 5000w )
i hope including the costs?? alot of quetions..

Rgds
toluc