Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?

Amsy

Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« on September 24th, 2014, 05:19 AM »Last edited on September 24th, 2014, 05:49 AM
Hy folks,

for a long time I was tring to figure out, what the VIC was doing with the WFC and what effect can happen. So I decided to do it strictly from the electrotechnical science side and come to following conclusion for me.

We all read about the not working VIC or similar devices, which are not able to set up a voltage between the plates/tubes that is high enough to split the water molecul as stan described it. Maybe some of you recognized that we all have the same problem, that the voltage on the cell is breaking down to ~2V and some current flows through.
But maybe this was exactly what Stan want....?
Here comes the explanation:
Electrolyses is based on current, the gas output is directly proportional to the current through the cell. But there is a minimum voltage needed to trigger the process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis#Electrolysis_of_water ..... it is 1,23V

So to be high efficient (maybe 97-99%) the best way to do the electrolysis process is to use the voltage near 1,23V. Then there should be no heat losses (cool to the touch :exclamation:).

In several simulations and real setups I noticed that all circuits of meyer (until the injector) when using the chokes, the voltage at the water tubes always break down to 1,4-1,7V.
The idea is, to use such a circuit, to be high efficient with the electrolyses process! So maybe Stan was knowing this, but was not able to do a patent on efficient electrolyses. So he wrote down more like a fairy story do have a patent on the circuits doing the efficient electrolysis.
What does the ciruit do indeed: The chokes are like a very high resistor if you put high frequency on it. Never mind if they are in resonance or not. The resistance of an 1,1H choke with that high frequency is when compared to the WFC nearly infinite. In this setup the circuit works like a bleeder/voltage divider, this means, only the exact necessary voltage for electrolysis is created on the WFC to keep up the current flowing. It is like in a diode, the foward-bias. So yesterday I did a simulation on two diodes how this can look like. (Attachment).
So the WFC acts like a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode , the voltage on the secondary side always will break down to the forward bias of the WFC cell creating hydrogen and not heat like in a diode. The gas output depending on the internal resistance of the WFC.
I know there are two different kind of VICs, but I think for the WFC he took the VIC with copper wire (without extra resitance).

By the way, we also tried an alternator without automatic regulation inside. And it worked similar. If the WFC is big enough, the resistance will be very tiny and the (idling) voltage of the alternator will break down to a minimum, like a back EFM is cancelled by a flyback diode.

Whenever Stan did this or not, it is a nice finding, which everyone can replicate and try to get the best efficient electrolysis. :D

Excuse me the bad grammar. :sleepy:

Gunther Rattay

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #1, on September 24th, 2014, 05:30 AM »Last edited on September 24th, 2014, 05:41 AM
Quote from Amsy on September 24th, 2014, 05:19 AM
...
We all read about the not working VIC or similar devices, which are not able to set up a voltage between the plates/tubes that is high enough to split the water molecul as stan described it. Maybe some of you recognized that we all have the same problem, that the voltage on the cell is breaking down to ~2V and some current flows through.
But maybe this was exactly what Stan want....? ...
That´s not correct. At boulder 2013 Ed Mitchell showed the voltage over a 10 tubes serial cell at more than 3 KV and actually it reaches more than 8.5 KV.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6G4yIyLdY#t=377

at 6:20 min

Amsy

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #2, on September 24th, 2014, 06:09 AM »
Hi Gunther,

in the past we also achieved several kV at the tubes, unfortunatelly without gas output. I will look at the video but maybe you can give me some facts out of the testing? How high was the gas output and which energy input did he have?

In fact I took some unlucky words in my posting... Your are right high voltage creation is possible, but how much is the gas output?


Gunther Rattay

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #3, on September 24th, 2014, 06:20 AM »
The gas output is Stan Meyer´s level as soon as ionization takes place between the tubes.
Before ionization threshold voltage is reached nothing happens.

nav

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #4, on September 24th, 2014, 08:27 AM »
Stan doesn't use current to do work as in normal electrolysis, current is the enemy in this case. His tubes are electric fields just like any capacitor and those fields attract their opposite charge so that Oxygen is attracted to one tube and hydrogen to the other. If current ever gets into the VIC between the chokes and the cell the system will fail.

geenee

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #5, on September 26th, 2014, 10:10 AM »
I agree with Amsy.Vic that must consume power but hydrogen from Vic is h+ or h2+ not like hydrogen(h2)from normal electrolysis.IMHO.

Matt Watts

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #6, on September 26th, 2014, 10:32 AM »
Quote from geenee on September 26th, 2014, 10:10 AM
I agree with Amsy.Vic that must consume power but hydrogen from Vic is h+ or h2+ not like hydrogen(h2)from normal electrolysis.IMHO.
This is an area where we need to find the proper terminology.  I have heard the following:
  • HHO
  • HydrOxy
  • Brown's Gas
  • Mono-Atomic Hydrogen
  • Polarized HHO
What we need to do is build a gas classifier that can show us the energetic characteristics of the gas produced.  It has been said by guys like Les Banki that if you produce a high quality mono-atomic gas, you can easily mix it with a large amount of air and burn it as a fuel, like LPG, CNG, compressed methane or any other fuel gas.  Mike Nunnerley claims this gas must be consumed quickly as its useful half-life is only about 0.3 seconds unless it is stablized.  So the gas classifier would need to operate in real-time as the gas is produced.  You can not store and transfer the gas without losing its volatility.

heatlocke

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #7, on September 26th, 2014, 03:52 PM »
I hear that using the name HHO is copyrighted by Denny Klein and Hydroxy by Bob Boyce. Is it true?

Gunther Rattay

Re: Efficient electrolyses with the VIC?
« Reply #8, on September 26th, 2014, 11:34 PM »
I can´t believe that a basic abbreviation like hho similar to h2o can be copyrighted in the usa.

bread, butter and water are also basic words of common sense that can´t be copyrighted.