I really have no idea if this would work or not, but here it is for public consumption (attached).

Forum discussions:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2438.0
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/17019-chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-o-u-pdf.html

If DaS Energy is still around, maybe he could comment on it.

hummm.

i was talking with a guy that was involved this this idea.

i wonder if this is it... sure sounds like it :)

glad the idea maid it out...

~Russ

I think TinMan is looking at it too.  Personally I cannot put my finger on where the excess energy comes from.  Seems to me it would take at least as much energy to compress the gas down to a liquid as you would get from the liquid expanding back out to a gas.

If someone is actually able to get this thing to work and can demonstrate and explain it in a nice video, maybe I'll be able to understand it.

I don't have a video yet. But this really interest me. By using the  temperature  and pressure in the environment to change the state of a liquid to gas and back again doesn't take as much energy as you might think. But the expanding energy of the liquid to a gas is great.By collecting the expanded energy  from the liquid to gas and using it to turn the compressor the energy is basically free from the heat in the environment. To turn it back you use the compressed  gas and the cool environment to condense it back into a liquid. The compressor uses the energy from the expanding gas," piston and crank"

Quote from Enrg4life on May 19th, 2014, 07:20 PM

I don't have a video yet. But this really interest me. By using the  temperature  and pressure in the environment to change the state of a liquid to gas and back again doesn't take as much energy as you might think. But the expanding energy of the liquid to a gas is great.By collecting the expanded energy  from the liquid to gas and using it to turn the compressor the energy is basically free from the heat in the environment. To turn it back you use the compressed  gas and the cool environment to condense it back into a liquid. The compressor uses the energy from the expanding gas," piston and crank"

These are the basic principles that refregeration is based upon, a gas removing heat from one air coil to another, evaperator to the condenser coils.

Does it seem like regular gasoline piston rings would not be good enough to seal refrigerant?  I'm imagining more of a Papp style piston with more sealing abilities. 

A more effiecent means would be a screw type of compreessor.
In passenger jet aircratf they cool the cabin or where passengers are seated with the bleed air from the compressor part of the jet engine, Bernoulli principle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle

yeah,

I'm not sure on the piston rings. i would go with a air cylinder or something. that may have its own problems...

if its harmonically sealed the small leaks may not madder to much. ... like a standard HVAC set up. 

same idea we want on the PAPP motor.. once finished we seal it up with only electrical wire's coming out...

i was asked by a guy how should this be approached and i guested open source... sure sounds like the same idea.

funny how the refrigeration system is considerd one of the most efficient system's

http://www.learnthermo.com/T1-tutorial/ch04/lesson-F/pg09.php

"
    The coefficient of performance is used to quantify the performance of refrigeration cycles.
    The symbol used for coefficient of performance is “COP” with a subscript “R,” for refrigeration.
    Just like the efficiency of power cycles, the COP is defined as the ratio of the desired output to the required input.
    We do not call this an efficiency because it is generally GREATER than 1.  It would seem very odd to discuss efficiencies greater than 1.  So, instead, we callit the coefficient of performance.
    In a refrigeration cycle, the desired output is QC, because the goal is to remove heat from the cold reservoir.
    The required input is the work input, Wref.
    So, COPR = QC over Wref.
    Next we use the 1st Law to eliminate Wref from the equation.
    The result is a useful equation for calculating the COPR.
    If we divide the numerator and denominator by QC, we get the most common expression for the COPR.
    COPR = 1 over the quantity QH over QC minus 1.
    Now do you see why the COPR is generally greater than 1 ?
    If you rearrange the 1st Law, you will see that QH = QC + Wref.  Therefore, QH is >QC.
    So, QH/QCis > 1.
    So, COPR is always a positive number.
    But, as long as QH/QC is < 2, beta, the COPR is > 1 !.  This is almost always the case.
    This is good news because it means that when you PAY for kJ of energy for your refrigerator it REMOVES more than 1 kJ of energy from the food in your frig !  What a deal !
    Now let’s take a look at another system that is surprisingly similar to a refrigerator…the heat pump cycle.
"

Quote from ~Russ on May 20th, 2014, 10:49 AM

This is good news because it means that when you PAY for kJ of energy for your refrigerator it REMOVES more than 1 kJ of energy from the food in your frig !  What a deal !

All wonderful play on numbers.  Lets see someone loop it and have the thing self-running non-stop.  I'm almost certain what will be found is the motor runs out of liquid and stops, but you have to keep the compressor going to make more liquid.  And in the end, you'll use the same or more energy than you can ever get back.  The problem I see is you have two phase changes--from liquid to gas and from gas to liquid.  The liquid to gas phase change happens much faster than the gas to liquid phase change.  This time imbalance is the "trick" used by Dennis Lee in his demos.  As long as you have an unused reservoir of refrigerant, you can keep things looking good.  But as soon as all your liquid is gone, it's time to pay the piper.

But please, by all means prove me wrong.

Years ago household refriegerators were absorption type. Could use a pilot light flame to freeze your food. They are still used in RV'S and travel trailers.

We still use a reciprocating compressor in our ammonia refridgeration system at my work. It is very much like a V  6 internal combustion engine.

Some thing that could be done to make the Arothermo engine considerably more efficient is to have a jacketed engine block, much like in a car with coolant circulating  through it to cool it, but instead it would dump the heated compressed gas back into engine block  jacket to act like a condenser to dump excess heat which is needed to expand the liquid being injected into the piston cylinder.

Quote from Matt Watts on May 20th, 2014, 01:17 PM

All wonderful play on numbers.  Lets see someone loop it and have the thing self-running non-stop.  I'm almost certain what will be found is the motor runs out of liquid and stops, but you have to keep the compressor going to make more liquid.  And in the end, you'll use the same or more energy than you can ever get back.  The problem I see is you have two phase changes--from liquid to gas and from gas to liquid.  The liquid to gas phase change happens much faster than the gas to liquid phase change.  This time imbalance is the "trick" used by Dennis Lee in his demos.  As long as you have an unused reservoir of refrigerant, you can keep things looking good.  But as soon as all your liquid is gone, it's time to pay the piper.

But please, by all means prove me wrong.

always got to bust my bubble don't you Matt? lol

just kidding.

some interesting ideas here none the less...  In this type of system we are using natures normal anomalies
misshapes" to do work.  this is what we need to apply to all our work. something i have been trying to do for a long time. just keep that in your head when you do stuff...  it might help.

~Russ

Sorry Russ and others.  I still mean to be optimistic, but when optimism defies logic, that's where I draw the line.  When you say "natures normal anomalies"
misshapes", that is not logical.  My brain isn't wired to deal with that.  To me it's like having a high pressure side and a low pressure side and adding a one-way valve between the two oriented so the flow goes from low to high--there's no way you will ever get any flow.  Simply does not compute.

Anyway, with this system if it can be shown that thermal energy actually enters and leaves the system at key stages naturally and in the correct direction, maybe I'll start to get a little more excited about it.  For now it appears to me nature doesn't want to play along.  Any place where we would like to add more heat, nature wants to take heat away.  And places where we would like to rid ourselves of excess heat, nature wants to keep it there.

Matt,

I think you took that the wrong way.

 here is what i mean:

"When you say "natures normal anomalies"
misshapes", that is not logical."

how is this not logical.

let me give you 2 examples.

100% logical.

1.  if standing on a hill in the wind... put up a windmill... BAM!... power generation using "natures normal anomalies"
misshapes"

2. if baking in the sun... put up a solar panel  BAM!  making power.... from what? "natures normal anomalies"
misshapes"
this is what i mean when i say "natures normal anomalies misshapes"

things in nature are all ways moving from one state to a another. so we need to find ways to intervene those changes and make use out of them.

plants are the same way. we use them to fuel our body's with nutrients. got "something for nothing" well not nothing but "natures normal anomalies misshapes"

any how back to the Aerothermal engine..

 "Any place where we would like to add more heat, nature wants to take heat away.  And places where we would like to rid ourselves of excess heat, nature wants to keep it there"

this is true. so where this happens intervene it in such a way that is useful...

I'm not saying a refrigerator is OU. i'm saying a  refrigerator is using "natures normal anomalies misshapes" to do work. of course in this process we are putting energy in to create the effect...

out side the box but still 100% logical...

~Russ

If something is an anomaly, it isn't normal.

Gosh, I hope you haven't let California get to you already.

lol or i'm going to go back and edit every "anomaly" in his thread... my choice of words are not a good enough for you. lol


"natures normal anomalies" is now "natures normal misshapes"

you find a better word... lol

natures normal operation  follows the natural path of its function. a heat sink.
if you do that in space, you get a star birth or a spiral galaxy.

Just throwing this out there, Russ don't know how close you are to the largest trees on earth, but just imagine what can give them the ability to pump water and nutrients hundreds of feet straight up, what a power source that would be.

Quote from Jeff Nading on May 21st, 2014, 03:39 PM

Just throwing this out there, Russ don't know how close you are to the largest trees on earth, but just imagine what can give them the ability to pump water and nutrients hundreds of feet straight up, what a power source that would be.

:)

yes