On adding water into an ICE

Jeff Nading

RE: On adding water into an ICE
« Reply #1, on January 11th, 2014, 08:40 PM »
Quote from Farrah Day on January 11th, 2014, 02:36 PM
I've often thought that much of the benefits from adding a hydrogen booster to an ICE may actually be due to the presence of water vapour in the mix. So I thought I'd post these links as they are a very interesting read regarding adding water into internal combustion engines along with regular fuel.

http://www.efficient-mileage.com/water-injection.html

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html
Good information Farrah, now to adjust an on board computer engine control, hum.

Matt Watts

RE: On adding water into an ICE
« Reply #2, on January 11th, 2014, 09:48 PM »
I will state this much:  Proper water injection with just a touch of alcohol works wonders on a diesel engine.  To get the full benefit though, you must be able to advance the diesel injector timing.  When it's right, you can practically twist an axle right off with all the added torque the engine is able to produce.  It runs very smooth and power seems almost unlimited.  I can be in six gear, 900 RPM climbing an 11% grade and just take off like a rocket.  Very little smoke and zero hesitation.  Because of the increased torque, gear changes can happen much sooner and fuel mileage increases substantially.

Some reasons why I think a diesel engine feels the water injection effect far better than a gasoline engine:
  • Diesels have a much longer stroke and can take further advantage of the water changing to steam.

  • Because of the longer stroke, they tend to run at lower RPMs, again giving more time for the steam to take effect.
  • Diesels use highly compressed air to provide the ignition source when hit with fuel.  So temperatures are already very high prior to actual ignition, at which point the temperature climbs even more.  Interestingly though, it seems the water stays liquid because of the intense pressure too and doesn't begin expanding into vapor until the piston is well on its way down.
  • Water injected into the air stream does not compress, but it occupies space where air otherwise would be compressed.  So in effect, it actually raises the compression ratio.  So between hydro-locking the engine and no water injection, there is an amount of water that produces the most optimal compression ratio and thus, the most optimal performance.
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Farrah Day

RE: On adding water into an ICE
« Reply #3, on January 12th, 2014, 03:05 AM »
The key thing about adding water into an ICE being fed with hydrogen or oxyhydrogen is the cooling effect and so its predisposition to inhibit pre-ignition. It will also of course slow the burn rate down.

I've always considered drying the oxyhydrogen going into an ICE to be positively detrimental, but there are those that go to the extra time and trouble to do just  this. To my mind the tiny amount of liquid water that would reach the combustion chambers when fed into the air stream is negligible, and would have to be in order not to quench the flame altogether.

It is a fine balancing act to get it right, and yes to gain maximum benefit you would need to slightly adjust the engine timing, but it is worth it.

I found that our old Land Rover always ran much more smoothly and seemingly with greater power available on cold misty mornings due to the great amount of moisture in the air. And indeed I do now employ a water injection set up similar to that described in the second link of my first post.

I first discussed this with William Rhodes quite a few years back, and in fact it was he that lead me to follow it up, as he had toyed with a set up whereby air going into the engine was drawn through a maze of wet baby nappies. Though the bigger American vehicles had much more room in the engine bay for such a set up, which was not so practical for European vehicles.

 

firepinto

RE: On adding water into an ICE
« Reply #4, on January 12th, 2014, 06:47 PM »
I did a lot of reading on this a long time ago and came across a WWII application of water injection.  It was called WEP (War Emergency Power) and was installed on fighter planes like the P51 Mustang.  A mix of water, methanol and a supercharger doubled rated horse power for a short time.  I read one story where the military substituted methanol with isopropyl alcohol against the designers instructions.  That resulted in blown up engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_emergency_power