One of the biggest drawbacks of wind and solar is that they are both intermittent and hence highly variable and although in theory power can be shunted from an area enjoying a surplus to an area with a deficit, in practice this is not as easy as it sounds.  Since the one thing that a power station cannot do is provide more power than it generates, it is necessary to ‘balance’ renewable inputs to the grid by keeping on standby conventional power sources. What this means is that instead of renewable power integrated into the grid being “free” it is in fact being compensated by standby conventional power sources, so the tremendous financial  gains that should accrue from using renewables is largely mythical and in fact is more often than not negative. The converse is also true, often renewables integrating into the grid supply more energy than the grid can use ! The problem then becomes one of how to dump that extra power, you can’t for instance just put it into the ground, there will be a lot more deaths from spontaneous combustion than exist at present! Nor can you let it out into the Ocean, a lot of fish will die. So when you have to shed several Megawatts of power in a matter of seconds it becomes a problem.  As Long Beach Mayor Bob Foster, a board member of the California grid system management commented, “We are getting to the point where we will have to pay people not to produce power.”  
Energy from wind and solar is essentially free energy, unfortunately due to the presence of intermittency and problems arising from trying to balance the load, renewable energy is often more costly than energy generated by fossil fuel alone.  More and more money is being pumped into wind and solar; money is not going to make the sun shine at night nor will it make the wind blow on command.  Money CAN, however, help with NEW approaches that use OTHER naturally occurring forces of nature such as Gravity and atmospheric pressure.  The weight of the many miles of air above us in the atmosphere is  as tangible a force of nature as the wind or the sun. The force exerted by gravity is familiar to everyone.  No-one has tried to utilise these forces of nature, we at Green Initiative did try and we have succeeded with ‘Home Grid’.  The system caters to almost every possible energy need from individual houses to multi-storey high rise buildings. It is equally at home in an urban as a rural environment.
‘Home Grid’ uses atmospheric pressure and gravity to create a continuous cycle that can be used to generate electricity. ‘Home Grid’ works in the manner of the Newcomen Atmospheric  engine, however instead of condensing steam to create a vacuum, ‘Home Grid’ uses the kinetic energy of a descending counterweight to turn an alternator that produces electricity that is fed to a vacuum turbine.  More details of how this system works can be found at :  http://igg.me/p/597849   it is almost 90% certain that ‘Home Grid’ will work. ‘ Home Grid’ is essentially twenty first century technology used to run well proven 19th. century designs at maximum efficiency, the results are surprising.  No fossil fuels are necessary, ‘Home Grid’ is 100% clean.  
More to follow in next post: detailed description

Quote from foxx on December 20th, 2013, 04:04 AM

One of the biggest drawbacks of wind and solar is that they are both intermittent and hence highly variable and although in theory power can be shunted from an area enjoying a surplus to an area with a deficit, in practice this is not as easy as it sounds.  Since the one thing that a power station cannot do is provide more power than it generates, it is necessary to ‘balance’ renewable inputs to the grid by keeping on standby conventional power sources. What this means is that instead of renewable power integrated into the grid being “free” it is in fact being compensated by standby conventional power sources, so the tremendous financial  gains that should accrue from using renewables is largely mythical and in fact is more often than not negative. The converse is also true, often renewables integrating into the grid supply more energy than the grid can use ! The problem then becomes one of how to dump that extra power, you can’t for instance just put it into the ground, there will be a lot more deaths from spontaneous combustion than exist at present! Nor can you let it out into the Ocean, a lot of fish will die. So when you have to shed several Megawatts of power in a matter of seconds it becomes a problem.  As Long Beach Mayor Bob Foster, a board member of the California grid system management commented, “We are getting to the point where we will have to pay people not to produce power.”  
Energy from wind and solar is essentially free energy, unfortunately due to the presence of intermittency and problems arising from trying to balance the load, renewable energy is often more costly than energy generated by fossil fuel alone.  More and more money is being pumped into wind and solar; money is not going to make the sun shine at night nor will it make the wind blow on command.  Money CAN, however, help with NEW approaches that use OTHER naturally occurring forces of nature such as Gravity and atmospheric pressure.  The weight of the many miles of air above us in the atmosphere is  as tangible a force of nature as the wind or the sun. The force exerted by gravity is familiar to everyone.  No-one has tried to utilise these forces of nature, we at Green Initiative did try and we have succeeded with ‘Home Grid’.  The system caters to almost every possible energy need from individual houses to multi-storey high rise buildings. It is equally at home in an urban as a rural environment.
‘Home Grid’ uses atmospheric pressure and gravity to create a continuous cycle that can be used to generate electricity. ‘Home Grid’ works in the manner of the Newcomen Atmospheric  engine, however instead of condensing steam to create a vacuum, ‘Home Grid’ uses the kinetic energy of a descending counterweight to turn an alternator that produces electricity that is fed to a vacuum turbine.  More details of how this system works can be found at :  http://igg.me/p/597849   it is almost 90% certain that ‘Home Grid’ will work. ‘ Home Grid’ is essentially twenty first century technology used to run well proven 19th. century designs at maximum efficiency, the results are surprising.  No fossil fuels are necessary, ‘Home Grid’ is 100% clean.  
More to follow in next post: detailed description

/watch?v=zdmrStu7rk8


looks interesting.

why can the vacume only work up to 30 feet, or ten meters?:huh:

Quote

looks interesting.
why can the vacume only work up to 30 feet, or ten meters?:huh:

Atmospheric pressure can support a column of mercury that is 76 cms (30 ins approx.) high. Since water is less dense than mercury, atmospheric pressure can support a column of water that is 32 feet (i.e., 10 m) high!  It is little known and explored facts like these that helped us in our quest for a sustainable renewable energy solution.  Of course as regards the project in the video we soon found out that that the rules governing the balancing of two weights, even if one is atmospheric pressure and the other a more tangible weight made out of iron, is absolute. This means that in order to lift that piston, something like a ten ton weight would be needed! But this had a hugely positive aspect to it too, and that is what we used in the new  'Home Grid'. I think this is a solution that will work. Any comments?  As an interesting postscript to this project the 'Micro Hydroelectric project for the Home' was one of the finalists in the Lenovo donetwork contest' that was a huge boost for us.
p.s. What this means is that the weight of the atmosphere above the earth can support a column of mercury that is 76 cms high or a column of water that is 10 m high. If the column of water is greater than 10 m it cannot be lifted by atmospheric pressure. Hence lift pumps can only work to 10 m's.
p.p.s I do have to state that in actual fact we got the idea for the 'home grid' not from the vacuum elevator which we came across later but from the fact that trees suck up huge amounts of water and transport it hundreds of feet high during the course of a single night.

Quote from foxx on December 20th, 2013, 07:14 AM

Quote

looks interesting.
why can the vacume only work up to 30 feet, or ten meters?:huh:

Atmospheric pressure can support a column of mercury that is 76 cms (30 ins approx.) high. Since water is less dense than mercury, atmospheric pressure can support a column of water that is 32 feet (i.e., 10 m) high!  It is little known and explored facts like these that helped us in our quest for a sustainable renewable energy solution.  Of course as regards the project in the video we soon found out that that the rules governing the balancing of two weights, even if one is atmospheric pressure and the other a more tangible weight made out of iron, is absolute. This means that in order to lift that piston, something like a ten ton weight would be needed! But this had a hugely positive aspect to it too, and that is what we used in the new  'Home Grid'. I think this is a solution that will work. Any comments?  As an interesting postscript to this project the 'Micro Hydroelectric project for the Home' was one of the finalists in the Lenovo donetwork contest' that was a huge boost for us.
p.s. What this means is that the weight of the atmosphere above the earth can support a column of mercury that is 76 cms high or a column of water that is 10 m high. If the column of water is greater than 10 m it cannot be lifted by atmospheric pressure. Hence lift pumps can only work to 10 m's.
p.p.s I do have to state that in actual fact we got the idea for the 'home grid' not from the vacuum elevator which we came across later but from the fact that trees suck up huge amounts of water and transport it hundreds of feet high during the course of a single night.

Very interesting foxx, so what applications do you have in mind for this technology?:D

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 21st, 2013, 05:44 AM

Very interesting foxx, so what applications do you have in mind for this technology?:D

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your comment. 'Home Grid' will be used for home power generation, the great thing about 'Home Grid' is that it can be used anywhere, in high rises and in individual homes, because 'Home Grid' is progressive. This means that you can use a formation of 2 to 4 'Home Grid' systems arranged around a large central system and generate as much as 1 MW ! Nothing less would have satisfied our team at Green Initiative. We wanted a system that could be used everywhere  and under almost any conditions that are normally met.
As stated in the OP a more detailed explanation of the ‘Home Grid’ system and how it works will be undertaken at this point. Basically the question of whether the ‘Home Grid’ system will work or not is based upon certain premises that have to be made and in determining if the design can deliver on those premises. The great advantage that  the ‘Home Grid’ design enjoys is that it is based on hard physical facts and data that can be checked out theoretically, it is not for instance like the over-unity  Bidini engine which claims to produce more energy than is used to run it or the numerous perpetual motion machines that can be found on the net.  By contrast, everything about the ‘Home Grid’ system can easily be verified. The following facts have to be checked out:
1.    Kinetic Energy of descending counterweight
2.    Energy needed to turn generator
3.    Energy needed to produce vacuum
4.    Energy needed to raise counterweight back to original position.
As can be seen it is a chain of physical events that can be verified without having to resort to any esoteric calulations. If that chain of events is broken at any point then you know that the system will not work, which is not the case here.  Here is a chain of events of proven physical phenomena that take place when the system is working:
1.     Taking a counterweight that weighs approximately  150 Kg situated at a height of 10m, its kinetic energy will be 150 Kg x 10m x  9.8m/sec^^2 = 14.7 KJ.
2.     Energy needed to run generator = 5 KW, energy available from descending counterweight = 14 KW approx.  http://www.aurasystems.com/pages/prod_exploded.html   (P.S  the descending counterweight turns a  pulley just as in the case of a car alternator.)  In case you have not noticed enough energy and to spare is available for turning of the generator!
3.     The multi stage vacuum turbine needs 3KW , power available  =  5KW.
4.     Lastly the open ended shuttles are sealed converting them into pistons and atmospheric pressure acting on them is enough to raise the counterweight to its original position. For instance if diameter of shuttle/piston is 30 cms, then its surface area is 706 cms and pressure available if a vacuum of 500 torrs is created beneath the sealed shuttle/piston is equal to 353 Kgs approx, more than enough energy to lift the counterweight back to its original height.
5.    The shuttle is then unsealed and gravity pulls the counterweight down resulting in a continuous cycle with the counterweights going up and down creating 10 KW ( more if needed) electrical output.
If it can be proved that this causative chain of physical events is possible it means that there is a 90% chance that the system will work, if on the other hand a fault is found somewhere in this chain of physical events, then there is a high probability that the system won’t work.
Matters arising from above post:

1)   Time:
   One thought that comes immediately to mind is ‘Oh! One second isn’t enough time to build the vacuum.’ Happily it turns out that this premise is wrong, it has been verified that in the vacuum elevator the time taken for the cage to start rising after the button is pressed is less than 1 second. In any case, no need to get upset, remember that the counterweight has a K.E of 14.7 KJ ( KW). This means that even if the counterweight takes 2.2 seconds to descend there is still ample energy to turn the alternator and produce the required 5KW. Thus if the counterweight takes 2.2 secs to descend approx  6.8 KW (approx.) is available  and assuming that the alternator works at 80% and taking only 75% as a further safe guard 5 KW is still available for the vacuum to be formed.
2)   Vacuum
Can a vacuum of the necessary strength be formed by the vacuum motor throughout the system
Considering that a volume of almost 2.5 cubic metres has to be cleared. OK, what is a vacuum and how much do we need in this instance? The formation of a vacuum can be divided into three classes 1) rough vacuum 200 Torrs    (2) coarse vacuum  30 Torrs  (3) Fine vacuum 10^^-3 Torr (4) High vacuum 10^^-10 Torrs and above. What the ‘Home Grid’ system needs is about 300 Torrs so it is necessary to create a new category entitled very very rough vacuum to describe what 'Home Grid' needs. A vacuum of 300 Torrs is very very nominal, and can be easily achieved.

This reminds me somewhat of a pressure carburetor developed way back in the 1940's. They needed a carburetor that would self adjust fuel mixture as an airplane would ascend in altitude, worked with pressure, vacuum and temperature, shear genius back then.
Sounds like you've got something here that is worth all efforts to pursue.
Also reminds me of a clock pendulum with counter weights. :cool::D:P

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 21st, 2013, 08:09 PM

This reminds me somewhat of a pressure carburetor developed way back in the 1940's. They needed a carburetor that would self adjust fuel mixture as an airplane would ascend in altitude, worked with pressure, vacuum and temperature, shear genius back then.
Sounds like you've got something here that is worth all efforts to pursue.
Also reminds me of a clock pendulum with counter weights. :cool::D:P

Hi Jeff,
It is a long time since anyone came  close to saying,”………….. not bad, that idea might work!”  I have been looking up the pressure carburetor, it does seem to be a very ingenious design. Fuel can be regulated under almost any circumstance. Normal carburetors use a float, so if a fighter plane ( prop planes) had to turn loops the fuel would drain out. In the ‘pressure carburetor’  only pressure was used to regulate fuel flow. From what I can make of the description it seems that both fuel and air flow were regulated by pressure, each  time fuel was injected the pressures were adjusted and then re-set for the next time fuel was injected and so on. The adjustments were made automatically and very fast by comparing two pressures. These carburetors are still being used by prop planes today. It is quite amazing the inventions that come up when needed ! The reason that this carburetor is so relevant is that it is self regulating, all that is needed are two valves one for the fuel and one for the air. Both of these compare pressures and automatically open or seal. Thus if the metred fuel that is supplied under pressure is found to be at a lower pressure than the un-metred fuel then a valev opens and fuel flows from the un-metered fuel chamber to compensate.  Similarly if the ambient air pressure (impact pressure) is greater than the venturi air pressure (supplied under pressure) then the valve closes and so on.  My point is the pressures or difference in pressures were already there, all that was needed was to put in the valves to exploit the pressure difference. So, yes a lot like our 'Home Grid' set-up.

Quote from foxx on December 21st, 2013, 10:45 PM

Quote from Jeff Nading on December 21st, 2013, 08:09 PM

This reminds me somewhat of a pressure carburetor developed way back in the 1940's. They needed a carburetor that would self adjust fuel mixture as an airplane would ascend in altitude, worked with pressure, vacuum and temperature, shear genius back then.
Sounds like you've got something here that is worth all efforts to pursue.
Also reminds me of a clock pendulum with counter weights. :cool::D:P

Hi Jeff,
It is a long time since anyone came  close to saying,”………….. not bad, that idea might work!”  I have been looking up the pressure carburetor, it does seem to be a very ingenious design. Fuel can be regulated under almost any circumstance. Normal carburetors use a float, so if a fighter plane ( prop planes) had to turn loops the fuel would drain out. In the ‘pressure carburetor’  only pressure was used to regulate fuel flow. From what I can make of the description it seems that both fuel and air flow were regulated by pressure, each  time fuel was injected the pressures were adjusted and then re-set for the next time fuel was injected and so on. The adjustments were made automatically and very fast by comparing two pressures. These carburetors are still being used by prop planes today. It is quite amazing the inventions that come up when needed ! The reason that this carburetor is so relevant is that it is self regulating, all that is needed are two valves one for the fuel and one for the air. Both of these compare pressures and automatically open or seal. Thus if the metred fuel that is supplied under pressure is found to be at a lower pressure than the un-metred fuel then a valev opens and fuel flows from the un-metered fuel chamber to compensate.  Similarly if the ambient air pressure (impact pressure) is greater than the carburetted fuel pressure (supplied under pressure) then the valve closes and so on.  My point is the pressures or difference in pressures were already there, all that was needed was to put in the valves to exploit the pressure difference. So, yes a lot like our 'Home Grid' set-up.

Great analysis, already your understanding of this is awesome. It's been a long time since I have worked on one, mainly do sheetmetal repairs now. Could not remember if temperature had anything to do with the carburetor or not, I guess it would in a way because as a plane ascends in altitude temperature decreases, has a direct bearing on air density, same at sea level, temperature differential from the morning to the afternoon on a hot day, air would be most dense in the morning and the reason airplanes need more runway in the afternoon on a hot still day because of the air being less dense.
Also, the higher you go in altitude, the atmosphere becomes thinner and thinner, less atmospheric pressure there is, hence the reason it takes longer to boil potatoes, :P:P , water will boil at a lesser temperature at higher elevations because of a lesser pressure.  :cool::D:P    

Coming full circle! – raising of the counterweight ![/u]
So far all the calculations and discussions on the ‘Home Grid’ system have been almost solely restricted to the energy generated by the counterweight the time taken for it to descend and so on.  But if you think about it if you have a weight suspended at a height, gravity is going to make sure it descends when it is released meaning that it will develop kinetic energy. So that is almost a given, so is the fact that with suitable gearing the counterweight may be made to descend at almost any rate that is needed.  
The clincher in this design is whether the counterweight can be raised back to its original height after it once descends. Calculations show that if the diameter of the shuttle/piston is 30 cms then the atmospheric pressure acting on it would be equal to 706 Kgf !  Suppose that it has a vacuum below it of  300 Torr ( 390 mb) then the total atmospheric pressure acting on the sealed shuttle/piston would be 430 kgf, its acceleration would be 4.7 m/sec ^^2 and the  kinetic energy generated in one second would be  9.5 KJ or  9.5 KW, while the total K.E would be 20.2 KJ. Thus it can be seen that even with a very approximate vacuum of  300 Torr it will be possible to lift the counterweight back to its original position. This is what sets 'Home Grid' apart from other gravity powered free energy, the ability to complete a cyclic action and to continue doing so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNOEP1XIFiMLook at this video of a relatively small vacuum supporting quiet a large weight, notice how soon the vacuum takes hold and how effectively it can be released.

Neat :cool:

Makes you wonder how hard it would be to build a battery driven wall climber, could come in handy if you'd like to scale some scyscraper, drill a hole through the window, drop a remote controlled robot inside that which seeks out the safe and............oh wait, that would be an action movie not yet released.........like mission impossible 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08O0xVvB_a4
Here is a short video on the working of the vacuum elevator. It should be self explanatory. The elevator in the video creates the vacuum using a 3 KW motor.

Quote from foxx on December 25th, 2013, 10:12 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08O0xVvB_a4
Here is a short video on the working of the vacuum elevator. It should be self explanatory. The elevator in the video creates the vacuum using a 3 KW motor.

That's cool.:cool::D:P

Sounds like a commercial announcement of an alternative technology already developed.

Thanks, but we're here to research new methods and prove (or disprove) known ones.