Stan mentions multiple times in his writings the convenience of not just controlling the pulse width but also the "voltage amplitude"

Now in Stans info we find references to "variable voltage amplitude" yet it’s usually in fixed positions in his diagrams. (Selector switch, or variac manual control etc).

What do  you guys think of trying to apply a varying voltage during a repetitive pulse train?
Usually we only apply a fixed voltage pulse. And if we get it right this charges the cell.
Now imagine a step increasing voltage amplitude pulse. During step charging our cell. Acording to stan it should enhance the polarization process.

Let me know what you guys think, should i follow this rabbit?

In the video bellow I attempt to explain how to achieve this electronically using a
sequential circuit to trigger multiple SCR gates sequentially during repetitive pulse trains.



/watch?v=99V-kr_8zio&feature=c4-overview&list=UU095jfI446MK9VoLnAJKwRw

Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on December 2nd, 2013, 05:31 PM

Stan mentions multiple times in his writings the convenience of not just controlling the pulse width but also the "voltage amplitude"

Now in Stans info we find references to "variable voltage amplitude" yet it’s usually in fixed positions in his diagrams. (Selector switch, or variac manual control etc).

What do  you guys think of trying to apply a varying voltage during a repetitive pulse train?
Usually we only apply a fixed voltage pulse. And if we get it right this charges the cell.
Now imagine a step increasing voltage amplitude pulse. During step charging our cell. Acording to stan it should enhance the polarization process.

Let me know what you guys think, should i follow this rabbit?

In the video bellow I attempt to explain how to achieve this electronically using a
sequential circuit to trigger multiple SCR gates sequentially during repetitive pulse trains.


/watch?v=99V-kr_8zio&feature=c4-overview&list=UU095jfI446MK9VoLnAJKwRw

This idea has merit, could be very possible and deserves to be pursued.:cool::D:P

Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on December 2nd, 2013, 05:31 PM

What do  you guys think of trying to apply a varying voltage during a repetitive pulse train?

Let me know what you guys think, should i follow this rabbit?

I remember reading some stuff from Tom Bearden where he explains how charging a dipole such as a capacitor can be achieved using less total power when you charge it in steps versus charging it to the rail voltage in one shot.  I tried this one time using a D-to-A convertor driven by a micro controller.  My results where mostly inconclusive but I can say with certainty charging via a voltage step mechanism doesn't ever appear to use more power.  It may use less power, but from my experimenting it was only slightly less and the math to calculate it all out is painfully complicated.

Going back to Bearden, the missing piece that I had no way to replicate (or even understand) was some sort of negative resistor placed in series with the capacitor.

So for my executive summary:  If you can easily build the circuit, it may be worth a try, but I wouldn't expect a significant improvement in performance.  If you choose to give it a shot, I have my fingers crossed your mileage varies positively.

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on December 3rd, 2013, 12:07 PM

Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on December 2nd, 2013, 05:31 PM

Stan mentions multiple times in his writings the convenience of not just controlling the pulse width but also the "voltage amplitude"

Now in Stans info we find references to "variable voltage amplitude" yet it’s usually in fixed positions in his diagrams. (Selector switch, or variac manual control etc).

What do  you guys think of trying to apply a varying voltage during a repetitive pulse train?
Usually we only apply a fixed voltage pulse. And if we get it right this charges the cell.
Now imagine a step increasing voltage amplitude pulse. During step charging our cell. Acording to stan it should enhance the polarization process.

Let me know what you guys think, should i follow this rabbit?

In the video bellow I attempt to explain how to achieve this electronically using a
sequential circuit to trigger multiple SCR gates sequentially during repetitive pulse trains.


/watch?v=99V-kr_8zio&feature=c4-overview&list=UU095jfI446MK9VoLnAJKwRw

That's good information. Thanks!

I also want to note that Attenuating means "lowering". So Stanley was evidently specifically implying that one should start with higher voltage and work their way down. This is confirmed by the second sentence wherein he speaks of obtaining "an even higher gas-yield (88) at maximum voltage deflection (xxx Vn)."

As a sample below, I hope that it might be possible for me to do something like this below to make Stan's document easier to review and understand.

Try all the links and let me know what you think. Just pay attention to the numbers on the images to see what you looking for.
--------------------------------
From the book The Birth of New Technology - S.Meyer:

   By attenuating voltage amplitude (Vo xxx Vn) in conjunction with pulse-width (65a xxx 65n) allows voltage intensifier circuit (190) of Figure (3-23) to tune-in and match the resonant characteristics or resonant frequency of water bath (91) since water bath (91) always maintains its dielectric properties during pulsing operations. At resonance, electrical polarization process (160) interacts uniformly with liberated charged particles (92/95) of Figure (3-25) to obtain an even higher gas-yield (88) at maximum voltage deflection (xxx Vn). The established resonant frequency is most generally in the audio range from 1 Khz up to and beyond 10 Khz and is dependent upon the amount of contaminants in natural water. Oscillating and superimposing electrical charged particles unto the Electrical Polarization process at a given pulse-frequency is, now, herein called "Resonant Action", as illustrated in (240) of Figure (3-25).
---------------------------------
Enjoy!

Mogir

Thanks for the info on attenuation. it’s amazing how many times I find myself going back to these paragraphs over and over and finding out new stuff. I must have read his book half a dozen times by know.

And yes its very meticulous process reading a technical book like Stans. I also find my Self re-checking his reference numbers on illustrations constantly it’s very frustrating but I believe that to come to a full understanding its crucial.

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on December 3rd, 2013, 04:01 PM

Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on December 3rd, 2013, 01:31 PM

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on December 3rd, 2013, 12:07 PM

Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on December 2nd, 2013, 05:31 PM

Stan mentions multiple times in his writings the convenience of not just controlling the pulse width but also the "voltage amplitude"

Now in Stans info we find references to "variable voltage amplitude" yet it’s usually in fixed positions in his diagrams. (Selector switch, or variac manual control etc).

What do  you guys think of trying to apply a varying voltage during a repetitive pulse train?
Usually we only apply a fixed voltage pulse. And if we get it right this charges the cell.
Now imagine a step increasing voltage amplitude pulse. During step charging our cell. Acording to stan it should enhance the polarization process.

Let me know what you guys think, should i follow this rabbit?

In the video bellow I attempt to explain how to achieve this electronically using a
sequential circuit to trigger multiple SCR gates sequentially during repetitive pulse trains.


/watch?v=99V-kr_8zio&feature=c4-overview&list=UU095jfI446MK9VoLnAJKwRw

That's good information. Thanks!

I also want to note that Attenuating means "lowering". So Stanley was evidently specifically implying that one should start with higher voltage and work their way down. This is confirmed by the second sentence wherein he speaks of obtaining "an even higher gas-yield (88) at maximum voltage deflection (xxx Vn)."

As a sample below, I hope that it might be possible for me to do something like this below to make Stan's document easier to review and understand.

Try all the links and let me know what you think. Just pay attention to the numbers on the images to see what you looking for.
--------------------------------
From the book The Birth of New Technology - S.Meyer:

   By attenuating voltage amplitude (Vo xxx Vn) in conjunction with pulse-width (65a xxx 65n) allows voltage intensifier circuit (190) of Figure (3-23) to tune-in and match the resonant characteristics or resonant frequency of water bath (91) since water bath (91) always maintains its dielectric properties during pulsing operations. At resonance, electrical polarization process (160) interacts uniformly with liberated charged particles (92/95) of Figure (3-25) to obtain an even higher gas-yield (88) at maximum voltage deflection (xxx Vn). The established resonant frequency is most generally in the audio range from 1 Khz up to and beyond 10 Khz and is dependent upon the amount of contaminants in natural water. Oscillating and superimposing electrical charged particles unto the Electrical Polarization process at a given pulse-frequency is, now, herein called "Resonant Action", as illustrated in (240) of Figure (3-25).
---------------------------------
Enjoy!

Mogir

Thanks for the info on attenuation. it’s amazing how many times I find myself going back to these paragraphs over and over and finding out new stuff. I must have read his book half a dozen times by know.

And yes its very meticulous process reading a technical book like Stans. I also find my Self re-checking his reference numbers on illustrations constantly it’s very frustrating but I believe that to come to a full understanding its crucial.

I'm understanding Stanley's reasoning behind this a little better now after seeing this post by freethisone:
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=321&pid=20991#pid20991

So, After a high voltage exposure the water molecules in the chamber will polarize as respects their magnetic alignment in relation to the cathode and the anode. This polarization remains momentarily even after the voltage is droped.  THIS state IS the BIAS LINE for phase transition to plasma, which can be pushed and maintained by oscillating and superimposing additional electrical charged particles at a certain pulse-frequency, but without maintaining as high of a voltage as at first.

Mogir

you have it down very well. im so glad you are able to make it so clear.Thank you.:)

in saying then is it obvious to have 1 high voltage transformer, and power supply pulse at 5 to 10 second intervals. with its own variable time for high voltage polarization,and vary its magnitude, up to 11 kv such as a coil in the water near the plates.
and a separate  control , and power source at the plates in resonance.   less voltages, between the plates 24 to 36 volt.,  low amp setting miliamps, at. 20 thousand to 40 thousand hz or is that mhz. . separate power supply, and control for self adjusting resonance of the circuit.. this is what i got out of one such patent that uses a coil as a bias. the  gaps at the cells need be in spec. for tubular, and all cells 2 to 4 mm is max gap between plates.:angel:

I cant locate that patent i posted, so if you come across it please pots it here.

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on December 3rd, 2013, 12:07 PM

...
I also want to note that Attenuating means "lowering". So Stanley was evidently specifically implying that one should start with higher voltage and work their way down. This is confirmed by the second sentence wherein he speaks of obtaining "an even higher gas-yield (88) at maximum voltage deflection (xxx Vn)."

As a sample below, I hope that it might be possible for me to do something like this below to make Stan's document easier to review and understand.

Try all the links and let me know what you think. Just pay attention to the numbers on the images to see what you looking for.
--------------------------------
From the book The Birth of New Technology - S.Meyer:

   By attenuating voltage amplitude (Vo xxx Vn) in conjunction with pulse-width (65a xxx 65n) allows voltage intensifier circuit (190) of Figure (3-23) to tune-in and match the resonant characteristics or resonant frequency of water bath (91) since water bath (91) always maintains its dielectric properties during pulsing operations. At resonance, electrical polarization process (160) interacts uniformly with liberated charged particles (92/95) of Figure (3-25) to obtain an even higher gas-yield (88) at maximum voltage deflection (xxx Vn). The established resonant frequency is most generally in the audio range from 1 Khz up to and beyond 10 Khz and is dependent upon the amount of contaminants in natural water. Oscillating and superimposing electrical charged particles unto the Electrical Polarization process at a given pulse-frequency is, now, herein called "Resonant Action", as illustrated in (240) of Figure (3-25).
---------------------------------
Enjoy!

Mogir

Once ionization threshold is reached some kind of avalanche process starts. Ionization means current flow and voltage adjustment takes care for maximizing production while suppressing tendency for arcing.

the tendency of arcing is the creation of ions. the avalanche is the break down threshold. Tesla said in a quote these break down are the electron beams as a result  of arcing.


meaning we are working on the center of atoms, and electrons are being ejected at the gap, in a stream.ions too.  refer to crooks tube..

/watch?v=9HFh7OihLOc/watch?v=9HFh7OihLOc

Quote from freethisone on December 5th, 2013, 10:51 AM

the tendency of arcing is the creation of ions. the avalanche is the break down threshold. Tesla said in a quote these break down are the electron beams as a result  of arcing.

meaning we are working on the center of atoms, and electrons are being ejected at the gap, in a stream.ions too.  refer to crooks tube..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFh7OihLOc

Anode rays?  Neutron beam?  Or something else entirely?

Quote from Matt Watts on December 5th, 2013, 11:30 AM

Quote from freethisone on December 5th, 2013, 10:51 AM

the tendency of arcing is the creation of ions. the avalanche is the break down threshold. Tesla said in a quote these break down are the electron beams as a result  of arcing.

meaning we are working on the center of atoms, and electrons are being ejected at the gap, in a stream.ions too.  refer to crooks tube..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFh7OihLOc

Anode rays?  Neutron beam?  Or something else entirely?

electron beam.... has a tension.


Off on a tangent, but we should understand the modern day cyclotron as proof of concept. or Epg, or Cern,  or dynamic motion.

fusion propulsion. X ray gamma ray, ray gun, radio etc..


tesla had made some very large effectual forces that a glass bulb could sustain. he used i rare air, and voltages, made a very high vacume.  A beam at a high pressure. Gamma ray,  i think Mr teselonian averted to it then he stopped. but if used for good, can be a beniffit to mankind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penning_trap     Penning trap. when you have enough you let them fly. they will have a very high pressure as a thrust.

ION PUMP

a vacuum pump that removes gas by ionizing the atoms or molecules and adsorbing them on a metal surface

i download all these patents, and when i have time i read. he is the father of the cyclotron, but tesla did it first.:angel: It looks like a tesla turbine to me..:shy:

 cheers.

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on December 7th, 2013, 05:12 AM

Very interesting info about hydrogen bonds in water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_bond#Hydrogen_bonds_in_water

So, it would seem than that the hotter the water, the easier it would be to polarize the water molecules.
Kind of makes sense then, to do the electrolysis on small quantities of steam at a time, in the engine cylinder, right inside the injector.



Everything needs to be thought trough to bring this technology in.

Mogir

Good comment and link about steam Mogir. :cool::D:P

Quote from Mogir Jason Rofick on December 7th, 2013, 05:12 AM

Very interesting info about hydrogen bonds in water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_bond#Hydrogen_bonds_in_water

So, it would seem than that the hotter the water, the easier it would be to polarize the water molecules.
Kind of makes sense then, to do the electrolysis on small quantities of steam at a time, in the engine cylinder, right inside the injector.

Everything needs to be thought trough to bring this technology in.

Mogir

Years ago I frequented the energetic forum.  There was a character on there that claimed he could produce steam from a pressure cooker, send it through his ionizer field he built and it would burn like hair spray.  No one ever saw him do it.  So I suspect nature through him a curve ball with some other law of physics that must be overcome.  He's probably still trying to collect donations.

It's like I always stress, we need to fully understand the concepts of how water is built at a fundamental level, then we might just be able to engineer a device that can take it apart much easier than electrolysis.  Some may have had success in doing this, but I wager a guess it was more accident than really understanding the true fundamentals.  There is simply things happening at those extremely small sizes we cannot see, thus, we cannot understand.  The day is coming though; soon we'll figure it out.

/watch?v=yhKB-VxJWpg

interesting. there seems to have been a lot going on in 2012, and 2013 updated on you tube. so yea we are just about ready to pop the lid off.

:sleepy:

I had to try the sequential circuit just to see it work... still need to do alot  more work on it and waiting for some parts. video bellow enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rgVoP1grpM&feature=c4-overview&list=UU095jfI446MK9VoLnAJKwRw

I read yesterday that water as a vapour doesn't display dielectric properties,
can anyone confirm this? it would mean that it will only work in droplet form.
( sorry I didn't keep the link to the paper)
Has anyone worked out a value for air/water droplet capacitance in the meyer sparkplug? seems the portion of his plug where water is split is a very small volumehere is paper its an interesting read
www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/prevens/bubbles.doc

Quote from brettly on January 5th, 2014, 08:07 PM

Ihere is paper its an interesting read
www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/prevens/bubbles.doc

Nice find, thanks for sharing

just a note on hydrogen swapping between water molecules, I'd not heard of it before, its on a very short time scale ( picoseconds), but seems that the hydrogen is constantly swapping between molecules of water , no idea what relevance it has. link below has some info on it

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=QQEeAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=water+swap+hydrogen&source=bl&ots=jyBthzUB60&sig=9dktVEl_wDvbSxSN8AEHKMEEEa0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PWr8UrmdB8GMkAWO0IDQBg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=water%20swap%20hydrogen&f=false

Quote from brettly on February 12th, 2014, 10:51 PM

just a note on hydrogen swapping between water molecules, I'd not heard of it before, its on a very short time scale ( picoseconds), but seems that the hydrogen is constantly swapping between molecules of water , no idea what relevance it has. link below has some info on it

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=QQEeAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=water+swap+hydrogen&source=bl&ots=jyBthzUB60&sig=9dktVEl_wDvbSxSN8AEHKMEEEa0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PWr8UrmdB8GMkAWO0IDQBg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=water%20swap%20hydrogen&f=false

"water dynamics and vibrational spectroscope" Thats deep.... interesting how it shows the diff layers of water in the pool and how molecules "swap" or "jump"

Meyer talked about tuning into the dielectric properties of water, why not use a dielectric oscillator like the Tesla hairpin circuit, the sparkgap "burns" the electrons, dielectric current remains. I believe Meyer did this, but his system was flexible.

Quote from Alan on February 15th, 2014, 08:05 AM

Meyer talked about tuning into the dielectric properties of water, why not use a dielectric oscillator like the Tesla hairpin circuit, the sparkgap "burns" the electrons, dielectric current remains. I believe Meyer did this, but his system was flexible.

My hunch?  There is a trick to all this and if we ever figure it out, it will be universal for all over unity devices, many of which will be far more simple than the Stan Meyer concoctions.  I do think a spark gap with high voltage is promising simply because Mr. Tesla used it, but I also think the "trick" is something more fundamental that none of us has really stumbled upon.  I'm convinced there is a way to reach into the sea of energy and take out small portions without paying a penalty equal to or greater than the energy retrieved.  I like to think if we keep at it, we will find it.  Recall Russ' signature line:  "If you believe even though you cannot see, you will see."  This doesn't tell us when or what, but it certainly is inspiration to stay in pursuit of the goal.

a 'fusor' is a very simple interesting device, not directly relevant but the principle how it works might have some relevance. A voltage of a couple of kv is used to accelerate ions ( its in vacuum), the interesting part is the ions move extremely fast and can fly 'through' the metal grid since its largely open space.

Thinking of trying the following..

while consuming half amp and 12v. I was thinking how can it be possible to go from electron breakdown to avalance breakdown with out the amps?
maybe if i use switch over in a flip flop fashion...from .5 amp 12v to highvoltage source back again and so forth.

The cell will be "on" all the time and the circuits will be switched from [low voltage high amp] to [highvoltage hopefully low amp].
so the circuits would be alternating between on and off yet the cell will always be "on"
Timing would have to be in such a way that when the breakdowm wave is occuring before it falls we activate the high voltage side.

dont know this may not work...so far the high voltage experiments ive conducted the cell ends up converting to amps.
in other ocations ive had some significant effects...i have seen the cell increase in volts but at the expense of the primary side.
onfurtunatly i havent been documenting as i should, this would save on replicated experiments ive conducted. but some of these results do keep me coming back to testing.

when treating the SM type cell with high voltage after the voltage drop the cell will not return to 0V. It will hold the charge for a latency time until it drops to zero.