Until Meyer's WFC is out in the open I'm curious to what costs there are in what's already out there in terms of using different kinds of electrolytes etc when it comes to brute force, or should I say electrically (or otherwise) turn, water into HHO, H2/O2, Brown's gas or whatever you'd like to call it, as long as it's useable as a fuel for combustion engines.
Is there any such information to be had at all?
I know there's youtube clips of those already running their cars using some form of the above, though I can't recall ever having seen any gas (cost) mileage for it.

Discuss.

If I ever get to the point where I can confirm my dirt water experiments, http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=562, then that would go in on the list as a zero gas mileage way of running your car or whatever. I wouldn't consider the extra hassle of getting a shovel, bucket and digging up some dirt from the ground as an extra cost, I would however consider it to be a bit time consuming, granted, but it wouldn't be time wasted for nothing, it would be quality time spent for zero gas mileage

Meanwhile I'll just start out with this:

• Stanley Meyer WFC tech: 0$/mile

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Quote from Lynx on September 17th, 2013, 12:55 AM

Until Meyer's WFC is out in the open I'm curious to what costs there are in what's already out there in terms of using different kinds of electrolytes etc when it comes to brute force, or should I say electrically (or otherwise) turn, water into HHO, H2/O2, Brown's gas or whatever you'd like to call it, as long as it's useable as a fuel for combustion engines.
Is there any such information to be had at all?
I know there's youtube clips of those already running their cars using some form of the above, though I can't recall ever having seen any gas (cost) mileage for it.

Meanwhile I'll just start out with this:

• Stanley Meyer WFC tech: 0$/mile

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Hey,

There is some available information as to the viability of brute force electrolysis and heavily doped water with electrolytes etc. University of Tasmania of all places did some intake manifold manipulations and got quite impressive results ranging to about 80% reduction in fuel cost. This information is no longer available on their website as per usual suppression stuff i'm guessing. That being said if you where able to get a 30% reduction in normal running cost you would be doing extremely well without using some type of overunity device or other device better capable of producing browns gas than the conventional expected 15% in normal electrolysis.

That being said those savings would also come at a cost. A lot of the time you need to either tweak your cars trip computer or trick the cars O2 sensor to compensate for what your car perceives as a much too lean mixture. In reality the actual savings prob range between 10-15%.

Brute force electrolysis is really inefficient as you probably know and to get any kind of efficiency the water needs to be doped with a lot of electrolyte. This leads to higher maintenance and the constant need to re-stock the cell to ensure you are not hampering the engine. A lot of people also seem to use really high current and this leads to poisinous release of chromium byproducts, its the same stuff that turns the water a brown color when using SS plates..nasty stuff, but it also leads to excess heat and therefore a less efficient process.

I have seen some outrageous claims of 40-60 and sometimes 80% advertised as a reduction in fuel cost. This is off course completely unrealistic unless you are NOT using standard/brute force electrolysis.

The change and the increase in efficiency really needs to come from places like this forum where we have a group of people all with the same intention, and I think we are getting places with the way we are sharing information right now and how we are forming ideas about advanced structures of matter that can and will lead to zero point devices.

In short getting a 10% reduction in fuel cost at the expense of messing with your cars computer/sensors etc and constant maintenance of the fuel cell to ensure its free from gunk and stocked on electrolyte is probably more hassle than it's worth.

I for one am working on a device and hopefully we will see some more in the near future, I know Lamare is working on some electropolishing experiments and we might start seeing some significant increases in efficiency and hopefully to this point...


Stanley Meyer WFC tech: 0$/mile

My 2 cents :)

That's one of the problems, if you like, to adapt your car to be run on HHO/H2/Browns gas/etc.
Even if the Meyer WFC ever were to be replicated again, it still has to be put into good use, I.E powering your car.
This also holds true to what's out there right now, with those guys who's driving around on the gases from their brute force cells doped with various electrolytes and I've yet to see the whole story here, apart from putting together your cell, which most probably likely would be the most easy part in all this, to the tweaking of your car engine, the maintenance of the cell, gaskets, seals, o-rings, exhaust pipes, you name it.
Also during winter the water will freeze unless you figure out a way to prevent that, you must also probably see to it to drain your engine from water when you park your car, just to prevent it from freezing and ripping apart your engine as it expands due to the cold.

Anyway, besides all that, I'm still curious about the gas/cost mileage here, too bad the university documents are lost now.........

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Quote from Lynx on September 17th, 2013, 07:49 AM

That's one of the problems, if you like, to adapt your car to be run on HHO/H2/Browns gas/etc.
Even if the Meyer WFC ever were to be replicated again, it still has to be put into good use, I.E powering your car.
This also holds true to what's out there right now, with those guys who's driving around on the gases from their brute force cells doped with various electrolytes and I've yet to see the whole story here, apart from putting together your cell, which most probably likely would be the most easy part in all this, to the tweaking of your car engine, the maintenance of the cell, gaskets, seals, o-rings, exhaust pipes, you name it.
Also during winter the water will freeze unless you figure out a way to prevent that, you must also probably see to it to drain your engine from water when you park your car, just to prevent it from freezing and ripping apart your engine as it expands due to the cold.

Anyway, besides all that, I'm still curious about the gas/cost mileage here, too bad the university documents are lost now.........

• Stanley Meyer WFC tech: 0$/mile

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I've never been able to get to the point where I could do any calculations with my Smacksbooster in my VW Jetta.  Mechanical problems and freezing conditions always get in my way. :s I was messing around with brute force electrolysis a lot around 2002 but switched to studying aerodynamics instead.  I could get better results from aero tweaks than HHO ever did.

[attachment=4233]
http://www.gassavers.org/f11/my-f250hd-air-dam-8805.html

Nate

Quote from firepinto on September 17th, 2013, 08:19 AM

I've never been able to get to the point where I could do any calculations with my Smacksbooster in my VW Jetta.  Mechanical problems and freezing conditions always get in my way. :s I was messing around with brute force electrolysis a lot around 2002 but switched to studying aerodynamics instead.  I could get better results from aero tweaks than HHO ever did.

http://www.gassavers.org/f11/my-f250hd-air-dam-8805.html

Nate

Oki, thanks.
What electrolyte(s) did you use, did you only use HHO to power your car or was it a mix?

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Quote from Lynx on September 17th, 2013, 08:26 AM

Quote from firepinto on September 17th, 2013, 08:19 AM

I've never been able to get to the point where I could do any calculations with my Smacksbooster in my VW Jetta.  Mechanical problems and freezing conditions always get in my way. :s I was messing around with brute force electrolysis a lot around 2002 but switched to studying aerodynamics instead.  I could get better results from aero tweaks than HHO ever did.

http://www.gassavers.org/f11/my-f250hd-air-dam-8805.html

Nate

Oki, thanks.
What electrolyte(s) did you use, did you only use HHO to power your car or was it a mix?

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I use Sodium Hydroxide now, not sure what my concentration is.  In the early days I tried drano once and it messed up the plates. :angel:  Some of my test cells I would just use tap water which produced pretty good until all the iron in the water (not from the plates) floated to the top.  I have a monster 10 cell unit that weighs in the 75 to 90 pound range, that I still haven't put power to.  Need a safe zone to try that one. :D

Quote from firepinto on September 17th, 2013, 08:33 AM

I use Sodium Hydroxide now, not sure what my concentration is.  In the early days I tried drano once and it messed up the plates. :angel:  Some of my test cells I would just use tap water which produced pretty good until all the iron in the water (not from the plates) floated to the top.  I have a monster 10 cell unit that weighs in the 75 to 90 pound range, that I still haven't put power to.  Need a safe zone to try that one. :D

Ok, thanks.
Well let me know how much you reduce gas mileage when/if you get some data on that.
Did you have to do much tweaking on the motor?
I take it you mix gas and HHO.......?

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Quote from Lynx on September 17th, 2013, 08:40 AM

Quote from firepinto on September 17th, 2013, 08:33 AM

I use Sodium Hydroxide now, not sure what my concentration is.  In the early days I tried drano once and it messed up the plates. :angel:  Some of my test cells I would just use tap water which produced pretty good until all the iron in the water (not from the plates) floated to the top.  I have a monster 10 cell unit that weighs in the 75 to 90 pound range, that I still haven't put power to.  Need a safe zone to try that one. :D

Ok, thanks.
Well let me know how much you reduce gas mileage when/if you get some data on that.
Did you have to do much tweaking on the motor?
I take it you mix gas and HHO.......?

• Stanley Meyer WFC tech: 0$/mile

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Oh yeah forgot that part. lol:blush:
It runs on diesel / Waste Vegetable Oil.  This summer's couple basic tests didn't show any improvement.  Being that it is diesel there is no throttle plate to restrict air intake, which I think reduces the effectiveness of my HHO output.  On the other hand it is completely mechanically injected, so there is no oxygen sensor or computer to battle with.  My ultimate goal is to have the HHO cell run off of a solar charged deep cycle battery.  The problem with the Smacksbooster is that it was designed to run above 13 Volts produced by an alternator.  My solar battery doesn't give good output with that cell unless I short out a set of plates.  I don't want to modify it, so I'm looking for options on a new cell.  But now that snow flakes are on the way soon, that project is going back on the shelf.

Nate

Quote from firepinto on September 17th, 2013, 08:54 AM

Oh yeah forgot that part. lol:blush:
It runs on diesel / Waste Vegetable Oil.  This summer's couple basic tests didn't show any improvement.  Being that it is diesel there is no throttle plate to restrict air intake, which I think reduces the effectiveness of my HHO output.  On the other hand it is completely mechanically injected, so there is no oxygen sensor or computer to battle with.  My ultimate goal is to have the HHO cell run off of a solar charged deep cycle battery.  The problem with the Smacksbooster is that it was designed to run above 13 Volts produced by an alternator.  My solar battery doesn't give good output with that cell unless I short out a set of plates.  I don't want to modify it, so I'm looking for options on a new cell.  But now that snow flakes are on the way soon, that project is going back on the shelf.

Nate

Alright, thanks Nate.
That winter is indeed a pain, needs to be solved before we get the chance to run our cars for 'free'

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Quote from Lynx on September 17th, 2013, 09:00 AM

That winter is indeed a pain, needs to be solved before we get the chance to run our cars for 'free'

• Stanley Meyer WFC tech: 0$/mile

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Winter has always been difficult for any type of fuel. Have a look at what happens to fuel in cars in the arctic regions like Siberia etc fuel freezes in the fuel lines and have to be heated by whatever means is available. It does however open up a whole new interesting area for discussion.

What can we come up with to stop water freezing if we did come up with a viable technology?
(Don't want to hijack the thread start another on this?)

1. Antifreeze or other chemical in the water. Has the potential problem of polluting the water, especially if distilled water is being used in the electrolysis process.

2. A thermal element of sorts to thaw it out. Either one that runs continuously without draining the battery? or one that is activated when required.

3. Insulation: Hard to accomplish and probably only effective to a point

4. A combination of the above or

5. We design something completely new and revolutionary :)

Seems as though it's time to start another thread exclusively for all the practical issues involved in adapting/tweaking your car and motor in order to get it to run on HHO/H2/Brown's gas/etc, this thread is only for gas (cost) mileage.

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Quote from Lynx on September 18th, 2013, 03:29 AM

Seems as though it's time to start another thread exclusively for all the practical issues involved in adapting/tweaking your car and motor in order to get it to run on HHO/H2/Brown's gas/etc, this thread is only for gas (cost) mileage.

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Fair enough :) Ill start another

I heard from someone else that a aluminum can inside an electrolysis machine can make it run more efficient which uses the aluminum as fuel. I never tries it but if you can...

Quote from wsx on September 20th, 2013, 08:16 PM

I heard from someone else that a aluminum can inside an electrolysis machine can make it run more efficient which uses the aluminum as fuel. I never tries it but if you can...

Can you provide a link to this?
Or do you have any data saying what gas mileage we're talking here?
Thanks.

Quote from Lynx on September 21st, 2013, 12:25 AM

Can you provide a link to this?
Or do you have any data saying what gas mileage we're talking here?
Thanks.

The internet does not have this information. This is 2nd hand information from an inventor in a non related investment project which is in the works.
But to give you some other "hints"
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=1452

Message back if you find something.