Hey guys,

I have seen alot of information on brown's gas and HHO on this forum obviously but thought this deserved it's own thread.

There has been some discussions about the explosive nature of hydrogen and the implosive nature of brown's gas and would like to know what people think in terms of the benefits/disadvantages of both might be. In one instance i saw posted the fact that a mixture of hydrogen and browns gas might not be conducive to a proper combustion process. It was mentioned that seeing brown''s gas implodes and hydrogen explodes that the two mixed together might lead to a "conflict of interest" if you like. Where the Brown's gas produces a pulling type propulsion and hydrogen produces a pushing type propulsion.

It's interesting to note that Yull Brown himself saw hydrogen as a type of pollution that was detrimental to the browns gas phenomenon.

This being the case does the Meyer cell then rely on an increased production of browns gas and is it this substance rather than hydrogen that's being used?

If a combination of both are used do they compliment each other or are they detrimental to each other and if so what is the reason they would be?

Quote from zaneaussie on September 9th, 2013, 06:13 AM

Hey guys,

I have seen alot of information on brown's gas and HHO on this forum obviously but thought this deserved it's own thread.

There has been some discussions about the explosive nature of hydrogen and the implosive nature of brown's gas and would like to know what people think in terms of the benefits/disadvantages of both might be. In one instance i saw posted the fact that a mixture of hydrogen and browns gas might not be conducive to a proper combustion process. It was mentioned that seeing brown''s gas implodes and hydrogen explodes that the two mixed together might lead to a "conflict of interest" if you like. Where the Brown's gas produces a pulling type propulsion and hydrogen produces a pushing type propulsion.

It's interesting to note that Yull Brown himself saw hydrogen as a type of pollution that was detrimental to the browns gas phenomenon.

This being the case does the Meyer cell then rely on an increased production of browns gas and is it this substance rather than hydrogen that's being used?

If a combination of both are used do they compliment each other or are they detrimental to each other and if so what is the reason they would be?

Well, I think there are three possible scenario's:

1) use the explosive force of hydrogen burning
2) use the implosive force associated with HHO
3) use the implosive force of the HHO similar to what NOS gas does in order to get more gas into the cylinder and thus improve efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Internal_combustion_engine

Quote

Nitrous oxide is stored as a compressed liquid; the evaporation and expansion of liquid nitrous oxide in the intake manifold causes a large drop in intake charge temperature, resulting in a denser charge, further allowing more air/fuel mixture to enter the cylinder. Nitrous oxide is sometimes injected into (or prior to) the intake manifold, whereas other systems directly inject right before the cylinder (direct port injection) to increase power.

In other words: it may to be possible to use the implosion during the take-in cycle in order to get more gas into the cylinder. However, since the implosion appears to release energy, this might also ignite the hydrogen, which would not be a good idea during the take-in cycle.

Another possibility is that it may be possible to turn NOX gas from the exaust into NOS gas using the implosive power of the HHO gas, because the molecules are similar, although that does appear to be a bit far-fetched:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx

But then again, Stan did something like this, so I certainly do not rule out any possibility at this point.

However, most simple solution would be to get rid of either the hyrdogen or the HHO gas and go for either an implosive or an explosive force.

Some personal observations...

Having witnessed an HHO "detonation" within a 2 quart plastic reservoir, I can tell you both explosive and implosive forces are at work that create a massive shock wave within a contained vessel, shredding it to pieces.  Those pieces you will find both inside and outside the remains of the vessel after the event.  The rubber stopper used as an over pressure release was launched like a bullet.  Needless to say, it was ineffective.

Another interesting characteristic is using rubber tubing as a fuse.  If the tubing is clear, you can fill it with HHO and ignite one end and what you will see is a pinkish orange flash the entire length of the tube and it exits the other end almost instantaneously.  I would love to get a high-speed camera video of this event, because even with minute quantities of HHO inside the tube, the reaction is intensely violent.

The HHO was generated using a typical DC plate cell with NaOH.

I have been told that diluting the HHO with Nitrogen and/or water vapor will slow the reaction down, but have yet to witness such characteristics.

Quote from Dog-One on September 9th, 2013, 01:01 PM

Some personal observations...

Having witnessed an HHO "detonation" within a 2 quart plastic reservoir, I can tell you both explosive and implosive forces are at work that create a massive shock wave within a contained vessel, shredding it to pieces.  Those pieces you will find both inside and outside the remains of the vessel after the event.  The rubber stopper used as an over pressure release was launched like a bullet.  Needless to say, it was ineffective.

Another interesting characteristic is using rubber tubing as a fuse.  If the tubing is clear, you can fill it with HHO and ignite one end and what you will see is a pinkish orange flash the entire length of the tube and it exits the other end almost instantaneously.  I would love to get a high-speed camera video of this event, because even with minute quantities of HHO inside the tube, the reaction is intensely violent.

The HHO was generated using a typical DC plate cell with NaOH.

I have been told that diluting the HHO with Nitrogen and/or water vapor will slow the reaction down, but have yet to witness such characteristics.

Hey Dog-one,

Wow now that is very interesting. From what I understand Lamare is under the impression that getting rid of either the brown's gas or the hydrogen would make the combustion process more effective and this was also my impression. But from what you observed it seems that perhaps you can't have one with out the other and perhaps they do work in combination to produce this extreme combustion. Perhaps this then also explain the Ppap engine also I came across this video where you can clearly see both the implosion immediately followed by an explosion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhBBCOIjkiM

Quote from lamare on September 9th, 2013, 11:34 AM

Quote from zaneaussie on September 9th, 2013, 06:13 AM

Hey guys,

I have seen alot of information on brown's gas and HHO on this forum obviously but thought this deserved it's own thread.

There has been some discussions about the explosive nature of hydrogen and the implosive nature of brown's gas and would like to know what people think in terms of the benefits/disadvantages of both might be. In one instance i saw posted the fact that a mixture of hydrogen and browns gas might not be conducive to a proper combustion process. It was mentioned that seeing brown''s gas implodes and hydrogen explodes that the two mixed together might lead to a "conflict of interest" if you like. Where the Brown's gas produces a pulling type propulsion and hydrogen produces a pushing type propulsion.

It's interesting to note that Yull Brown himself saw hydrogen as a type of pollution that was detrimental to the browns gas phenomenon.

This being the case does the Meyer cell then rely on an increased production of browns gas and is it this substance rather than hydrogen that's being used?

If a combination of both are used do they compliment each other or are they detrimental to each other and if so what is the reason they would be?

Well, I think there are three possible scenario's:

1) use the explosive force of hydrogen burning
2) use the implosive force associated with HHO
3) use the implosive force of the HHO similar to what NOS gas does in order to get more gas into the cylinder and thus improve efficiency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide#Internal_combustion_engine

Quote

Nitrous oxide is stored as a compressed liquid; the evaporation and expansion of liquid nitrous oxide in the intake manifold causes a large drop in intake charge temperature, resulting in a denser charge, further allowing more air/fuel mixture to enter the cylinder. Nitrous oxide is sometimes injected into (or prior to) the intake manifold, whereas other systems directly inject right before the cylinder (direct port injection) to increase power.

In other words: it may to be possible to use the implosion during the take-in cycle in order to get more gas into the cylinder. However, since the implosion appears to release energy, this might also ignite the hydrogen, which would not be a good idea during the take-in cycle.

Another possibility is that it may be possible to turn NOX gas from the exaust into NOS gas using the implosive power of the HHO gas, because the molecules are similar, although that does appear to be a bit far-fetched:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx

But then again, Stan did something like this, so I certainly do not rule out any possibility at this point.

However, most simple solution would be to get rid of either the hyrdogen or the HHO gas and go for either an implosive or an explosive force.

Hmmm interesting points! See that was my impression also!

Quote from zaneaussie on September 9th, 2013, 03:57 PM

Hey Dog-one,

Wow now that is very interesting. From what I understand Lamare is under the impression that getting rid of either the brown's gas or the hydrogen would make the combustion process more effective and this was also my impression. But from what you observed it seems that perhaps you can't have one with out the other and perhaps they do work in combination to produce this extreme combustion. Perhaps this then also explain the Ppap engine also I came across this video where you can clearly see both the implosion immediately followed by an explosion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhBBCOIjkiM

That flash right there at 0:23 is (I think) the result of cavitation.  It would be nice to see about 20 more frames centered right around that event, but I'll bet you one of those bubbles collapses to an infinitesimally small point where a micro burst fusion reaction occurs, creating and igniting the gas in the larger bubble next to it.  From there you see the typical expansive combustion process unfolding.  This effect denoted by Mark LeClair is known as a LeClair Effect Nuclear Reaction (LENR) not to be confused with a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (also LENR).

There is definitely energy to be had from such a reaction, but what I don't know is if it would be in excess of the energy you put in to set it up.  Mother Nature is awfully careful about giving out more than she gets.