hello there,

from all i have read magnet motors should be considered a dead end because no functioning device was ever produced in the last 100 years but i have this stupid idea stuck in my head and i want to get rid of it and maybe some of you guys can follow my thoughts.okay now let me explain what i think is going to happen.

everyone knows we have a attraction force between two different permanent magnet poles and the closer they get the stronger the attraction becomes but we also have a change of magnetic flux while the magnets align each other so why dont we capitalize on that and mount a coil around one of the magnets (in my example the coil is wrapped around the stator magnet). What this should do is induce a current into the stator coil and we know from transformers that the induced dircetion of the current will produce a magnetic flux which direction will counter the flux of the permanent magnets. So in my head the magnetic field of the stator magnet and the magnetic field of the induced coil current will cancel each other out so the attraction force between the stator and the rotor magnet will not increase but decrease! in the end this should allow the rotor magnet to pass the stator magnet without any attraction and with enough momentum the disk must spin for another half turn. then we can release the energy stored in the stator coil and the attraction force of the magnets will appear again, restarting the process.

let me know what you guys think of this idea

Actually, here's a thought.

How about a wheel with some steel balls and a permanent magnet which has such a coil you talk about here.
Now imagine that the wheel is turning CCW.
As soon as the steel ball is level to the magnet the switch closes and cancels out the permanent magnetism
attracting the ball.
When the distance to the next approaching ball is closer than the distance to the just leaving ball the switch
opens again, allowing for the permanent magnetism to once again attract the (next) approaching ball.
And again and again, ad perpetuum............?

well, closing the circuit while the steel ball is near the permanent magnet/coil doesnt cancel out the permanent magnetic field. you need a current in the coil and you only get a current if the magnetic flux changes in the area surrounded by the coil. that only happens while the ball is moving towards the coil. So the switch needs to be closed while the ball is attracted towards the coil. the closer the steel ball gets the greater the magnetic flux change becomes, the greater the induction becomes, the greater the current becomes and the weaker the magnetic field gets (because the coils magnetic field is building up in counter direction of the magnets magnetic field). now the steel ball can pass the magnet without getting stuck because the current in the coil is canceling out the magnetic field of the permanent magnet. now you have to wait until the steel ball has "moved on" and then you have to redirect the remaining current in the coil to a load so the current flow stops quickly and the magnetic field of the permanent magnet reappears again. as soon as the current stops you have to close the circuit again so the magnetic flux change from the attraction of the next ball can produce a new current in the coil and the process can start again.

that's how your device could work (in my thoughts)

p.s. sorry if my english is bad, also i would position the magnet/coil on the outside of the circle

Ok, thanks

Hi Kelloggs , I think you should look into the Bedini motor. It uses magnets mounted on a bicycle wheel that move into a double coil  where one of the coils gates a transister on as the magnet is approching.causeing the transister to draw current through the second coil for a very short time then it leaves the energy in the second coil which is rectified by a diode to charge a second battery with hi voltage pulses If you put a full bridge rect. across the second coil and a cap. if you can space the magnets the right distance a part maybe you can find the place to an add a coil to turn the wheel like your talking about useing the electric energy stored in the cap as the pri. battery .You can add more coils and caps. and pull energy off the passing magnets to light leds or some other low power work .

I had the same idea and a few flaws to that is to correct the waste it has by the air friction which would be best in a vacuum, to have magnetic bearings, and the coil is wasted on the other side which should be in a U shape outside or it has to be at the center to touch both sides of the ring with magnets with opposite magnets. the magnet has to be as close as possible to the coil to to have a stronger pull.
Another issue is that the magnet slows down when it makes current in the coil which if you take a small motor which has the same principles and you put the wires together the motor does not move freely or much. Unless you have a "small" external source of energy to assist and then divert the power back into it to increase the speed then you might see something.

Also as an extra thing, maybe have a on/off switch like a small brush sensor or weak magnetic switch to shut off and save the current when you have the motor that spins it to give back to the coil to have a stronger pull to increase the speed. But if it goes too fast the coil might burn up from the heat which would need to have a cut off limit of how much power it can take.

hi edxhemphill & WSX

@edxhemphill
thanks for the intel on bedini systems. i never looked too much into them because, well, they never lived up to what they promised but i'm not sure where i can add my idea into the bedini system. You say it uses double coils and a wheel with imprinted magnets on both sides. do you mean we should add magnets to the coils so we have natural attraction forces and dont need an extra motor to turn the wheel? i would rather test with one magnet and one magnet/coil to see if we can achieve any rotation at all.

WSX, you mentioned a few problems like air friction and shaft fricition but in my opinion the biggest problem is: thermal dissipation within the copper wires.
I cannot figure out how fast my current drops because of that effect. As soon as the magnetic field of the coil drops the permanent magnets will start do pull on each other again and that will definitely slow down our rotation. the only substance i can think of which does not have thermal dissipation is a superconductor. does induction apply to superconductors as well?

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god damn - i found another problem which seems so familiar because it's not the first time i think about such devices...

if we look at the picture without the magnet inside the coil we would have a simple generator. now if we turn the disk and the magnet on the disk approaches the coil we would get a current that creates a magnetic field that repels the approaching magnet. if we look back at the original device our magnet inside the coil would counter that repelling force because it want to attract the other magnet but with a reduction of the total attraction force.

i guess you guys know where this is going. back at the generator version if we turn the magnet past the coil, the coil would generate a magnetic field that wants to attract the magnet, which is moving away from the coil. so now the current inside the coil and the permant magnet inside the coil would amplify their magnetic fields instead of canceling out each other resulting in an even stronger attraction between stator magnet/coil - rotor magnet. god damn.

stupid brain... always looping back instead of finding new solutions

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okay wait, maybe the steel ball solution is working in that case. the steel balls do not have a fixed magnetic field. they can be attracted but they would not cause the secondary induction with the current changing it's direction inside the coil while they move past it. you could say the steel ball is just a temporary magnet and through it's interaction (changing the magnetic flux and creating an induction current) it would revert back into a steel ball without an inherent magnetic field.

in that case we should concentrate on Lynx sollution

Hi WXS and Keloggs and anyone whos interisted,The magnets are glued to rim. You can buy magnets that are about 2" long by 7/8" wide by 3/8 " thick which if you attach them with rubber bands and then glue them in place .You then wind 2 wires into a coil , around 800 turns is best according to Mr bedini .You need the put the north pole faceing out. you can find the electricial print at Bedini motor sg   , The sg stands for school girl . You don't put a magnet inside the coil , you put a very soft iron so it doesn't hold magnetizem . Bedini says to use R- 60 welding rod. The way it works is as the north magnetic pole approches the coil it produces a emf in the trigger coil which will be postive if you hook up the right wire which you add a vaireable res. between it and the base of a npn transister. The other wire from the second coil goes to the run  battery postive and the bottom wire of the second coil ,call the power coil ,goes to the collector of the transister. Mr. Bedini puts a doide at the junction of the collector and the bottom wire from the power coil ,anode to the collecter , cathode to the postive termial of  second battery ,called the charge battery whos neg. termial hooks the the postive of the run battery . The neg. termial of the run battery hooks to the bottom wire of the trigger coil and the emitter of the transister plus the anode of a diode that runs between the base and the emitter.If you have two amp meters you can tune the variable res in the base circuit for least current and max wheel speed. Maybe you can replace the run battery with a large high voltage cap. and if you use a 2 SD 1895 transister you may not need the neon lights that protect the the transister from the high voltage spikes .A very small cap. from the collector and the emitter may be a good idea .If you remove the diode from the collector and the charge battery and add a full bridge rect. across the run coil that you run to a large cap. to replace the run battery plus  add more extra coils with full bridge rect.to charge the cap. you may come very close to over unity. Yes the magnets do work when they produce power but the bedini wheel is a very interisting devise. I think it ruins batterys long term. By replaceing the battery with cap. you can run a much nigher voltage and useing full bridge rect you get more energy out of the coils.After I finish my papp engine and my Da palama gen. and my Floyd Sweet  devise I may build this different kind of pulse motor The research goes on Ed Hemphill

Hey Ed,

Here's something folks should probably read to get up to speed with Floyd.

Another problem with the diagram is that when you turn off the power to attract, it will repel which it has to be switches exactly the moment it is at the center. Unless you have something to delay or absorb it.
For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txmKr69jGBk&feature=player_detailpage#t=97 (1:40 in how disconnecting power gives a power spike.)

Another is that the electric part does all the work which you would need to give other smaller magnets to help boost it around and the electromagnet to help make the jump.
Something kind of like this
http://www.tineye.com/query/d18f8f79f7e343ebcd239dd7e0484797f233517c


The journey or learning about it all makes it work it even if nothing comes of it since the imagination gets more active when learning new things. :)

Some things stated here I do not think they have much of an impact and some things seem interesting.
As for other things mentioned here, I do not think they have much of an significant but I could be wrong.

When i think of induction, the magnetic counterforce, i think about it counteracting on any change in the flux it surrounds, captures.

So a change in direction, or a change in intensity of captured flux will trigger induction.

So its not in my mind a continuous force, but a force to work towards a balanced state and then disappear again. Till the next flux-change.

Thats why, when you put a magnet over a measuring coil, it only reacts as long as you move the magnet... it does not give a permanent current!

It will react on the movement of the magnet because that is making a change in the direction or the intensity of the flux, as stated above.

With this in mind i believe it is still possible to trick the induction, again like Paul Babcock claims and explains or 'many' others.