https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXLzNI9Eisg

That is without a doubt a cool contraption you have built Tom.  Seems someone will need to invent a new kind of Faraday cage to stop your wheels from turning.

So how far have you gone with it?  Last I heard you were able to continuously charge a battery while running off another.  Did you ever wire-up a latching relay to see if it would continuously run?

Quote from Dog-One on June 28th, 2013, 07:19 PM

That is without a doubt a cool contraption you have built Tom.  Seems someone will need to invent a new kind of Faraday cage to stop your wheels from turning.

So how far have you gone with it?  Last I heard you were able to continuously charge a battery while running off another.  Did you ever wire-up a latching relay to see if it would continuously run?

Thanks for the nice comment.
This is how far I have gone with it presently using 24 volts DC as the power source.  Now I am looking how to use the AC right out of the coil before its rectified.

As far as battery charging I have been there and done that.
I try to make all I do affordabe for most folks to build and the world is full of inexpensive battery chargers already. A $7 ebay charger costs less than  chargecomponents bought for the motor generator. Most folks wont buy those components.  

My main goal now is to close the loop if possible and make a large self runner model.
I know its wishfull thinking but it keeps my mind active.

Tom

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 28th, 2013, 09:26 PM

My main goal now is to close the loop if possible and make a large self runner model.
I know its wishfull thinking but it keeps my mind active.

Tom

That's what I was getting at.  If you can charge one battery faster than you discharge the run battery, my suggestion was to use a latching relay pulsed by a timer that just flips them back-n-forth every ten minutes or so.  If it will run continuously as well as turn a ten inch fan blade, them I'm afraid, you really have solved all the worlds problems whether you know it yet or not.  Running closed-looped without batteries would be real nice, but running for six months on two little lead-acid batteries while driving a load would more than satisfy me.

BTW, a latching relay for those who haven't toyed with one before only needs a short pulse to switch from on to off and vice versa.  It's like a solenoid connected to a push-on/push-off switch instead of a normal relay that needs continual power draw when it's on.

Quote from Dog-One on June 28th, 2013, 09:56 PM

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 28th, 2013, 09:26 PM

My main goal now is to close the loop if possible and make a large self runner model.
I know its wishfull thinking but it keeps my mind active.

Tom

That's what I was getting at.  If you can charge one battery faster than you discharge the run battery, my suggestion was to use a latching relay pulsed by a timer that just flips them back-n-forth every ten minutes or so.  If it will run continuously as well as turn a ten inch fan blade, them I'm afraid, you really have solved all the worlds problems whether you know it yet or not.  Running closed-looped without batteries would be real nice, but running for six months on two little lead-acid batteries while driving a load would more than satisfy me.

BTW, a latching relay for those who haven't toyed with one before only needs a short pulse to switch from on to off and vice versa.  It's like a solenoid connected to a push-on/push-off switch instead of a normal relay that needs continual power draw when it's on.

I dont know much about a latching relay. Can you suggest a circuit link that icould look at?

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 29th, 2013, 07:37 AM

I dont know much about a latching relay. Can you suggest a circuit link that icould look at?

Give me a day or two to do some digging and I'll come up with something you can wire-in pretty easy.  Just a couple of amps double pole, double throw should work fine right?

Quote from Dog-One on June 29th, 2013, 10:05 AM

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 29th, 2013, 07:37 AM

I dont know much about a latching relay. Can you suggest a circuit link that icould look at?

Give me a day or two to do some digging and I'll come up with something you can wire-in pretty easy.  Just a couple of amps double pole, double throw should work fine right?

Sounds good to me.

Tom

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 29th, 2013, 01:55 PM

Sounds good to me.

Tom

Here's what I have found so far:

• LED Flasher Circuit to generate the slow pulses (Should be able to pick a capacitor and resistor combination that gives you the delay you want.  I would leave the LED in there so you can see it pulse.)
  
• Maxim 5054BATA Driver chip circuit (Converts the pulses into bipolar pulses where +/- turns the relay on; -/+ turns it off)
  
• Takamisawa FTR-B4CB009Z latching relay (This one is 9 volts but there a lots you can pick from depending upon the supply voltage you want to use.  Just make sure they use bipolar control pulses.)
  

And here is how I would propose using two latching DPDT relays, hooking your batteries to your charge and run sides:
[attachment=3884]

If you have a common ground between your run and charge circuits, you can eliminate one of the latching relays and simplify things down quite a bit.

Hope this helps you.  It took a bit of time to research and draw up.

Quote from Dog-One on June 30th, 2013, 09:59 AM

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 29th, 2013, 01:55 PM

Sounds good to me.

Tom

Here's what I have found so far:

• LED Flasher Circuit to generate the slow pulses (Should be able to pick a capacitor and resistor combination that gives you the delay you want.  I would leave the LED in there so you can see it pulse.)
  
• Maxim 5054BATA Driver chip circuit (Converts the pulses into bipolar pulses where +/- turns the relay on; -/+ turns it off)
  
• Takamisawa FTR-B4CB009Z latching relay (This one is 9 volts but there a lots you can pick from depending upon the supply voltage you want to use.  Just make sure they use bipolar control pulses.)
  

And here is how I would propose using two latching DPDT relays, hooking your batteries to your charge and run sides:


If you have a common ground between your run and charge circuits, you can eliminate one of the latching relays and simplify things down quite a bit.

Hope this helps you.  It took a bit of time to research and draw up.

Thanks for looking all this up.  I love your clear schematic drawing and I believe I found the exact relay on Ebay that I can use. I really appreciate your efforts.

Now I am looking into a 24 volt flasher to trigger the relay.

Tom

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 30th, 2013, 01:50 PM

Quote from Dog-One on June 30th, 2013, 09:59 AM

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 29th, 2013, 01:55 PM

Sounds good to me.

Tom

Here's what I have found so far:

• LED Flasher Circuit to generate the slow pulses (Should be able to pick a capacitor and resistor combination that gives you the delay you want.  I would leave the LED in there so you can see it pulse.)
  
• Maxim 5054BATA Driver chip circuit (Converts the pulses into bipolar pulses where +/- turns the relay on; -/+ turns it off)
  
• Takamisawa FTR-B4CB009Z latching relay (This one is 9 volts but there a lots you can pick from depending upon the supply voltage you want to use.  Just make sure they use bipolar control pulses.)
  

And here is how I would propose using two latching DPDT relays, hooking your batteries to your charge and run sides:


If you have a common ground between your run and charge circuits, you can eliminate one of the latching relays and simplify things down quite a bit.

Hope this helps you.  It took a bit of time to research and draw up.

Thanks for looking all this up.  I love your clear schematic drawing and I believe I found the exact relay on Ebay that I can use. I really appreciate your efforts.

Now I am looking into a 24 volt flasher to trigger the relay.

Tom

I just ran across this timer. Do you think it will work as a Driver Pulse in the schematic you sent?

http://www.iacs.co.uk/datasheets/1CHGEN%20Board%20Datasheet.pdf

Tom

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 30th, 2013, 01:50 PM

Thanks for looking all this up.  I love your clear schematic drawing and I believe I found the exact relay on Ebay that I can use. I really appreciate your efforts.

Now I am looking into a 24 volt flasher to trigger the relay.

Thanks for looking all this up.  I love your clear schematic drawing and I believe I found the exact relay on Ebay that I can use. I really appreciate your efforts.

Now I am looking into a 24 volt flasher to trigger the relay.

I just ran across this timer. Do you think it will work as a Driver Pulse in the schematic you sent?

http://www.iacs.co.uk/datasheets/1CHGEN%20Board%20Datasheet.pdf

Tom

Did the schematic with DipTrace.  Piece of cake to use and it's actually faster than trying to scribble something out on a piece of paper.  It's free and suits my needs plenty good.  You can use it to do PCB layout and cuts too if you want.  They sell a license if you want to make something gigantic, I've never needed it though.
http://www.diptrace.com/

That board looks as though it is not bipolar (denoted by the + and - output terminals).  If you can find a relay that will work with it, you would be good to go, though it think it's unlikely.

Most latching relays I see however, are bipolar, so you would need a way to reverse the current to the coils or else they would turn on, but never turn back off.  That's what the Maxim chip does for you.  You give it a pulse and it outputs in one direction; give it another pulse and it flips the direction of the output current, thereby pushing the solenoid one way, then the other with each consecutive pulse.  The cool part of the latching relay is that it only consumes that short burst of current to get it to flip, otherwise it sits there like a knife switch completely passive drawing no juice.

That link with flasher circuits I posted has the old LM3909 which I don't know if you can even get anymore, but I have a few in my stock of parts.  It's real easy to get it to blink once per hour and might be a perfect timer source for the Maxim chip to flip your latching relay with.

There are other ways to do this you know.  You could have something monitor the voltage of the charge battery and use that to know when to flip.  I was just afraid with the crazy electrical impulses coming out of your coil, it might flip for no apparent reason.  Then you'd end up flipping back-n-forth like a mad man and chew up a bunch of juice triggering your relay.

Anyway, if you can get a circuit together to toggle between batteries, this would be useful for your setup as well as those guys playing with their Bedini SG, Konehead, etc motor/generators.  It's all about automating the process of charge/discharge of batteries so that you can let it free-wheel completely hands off and see if the darn thing will keep running on its own for long periods of time.  You get something that is still running after six months with both batteries still at full charge and you've really got something there.