How can one get more out of a fixed number?

In your device you put in 10 volts and you minus 2 for friction, minus 2 for other inefficiencies, you end up with 6 volts output which is only 60% efficient which is pretty good compared to a car that is 30%. Even if you have no friction and your device loses .01 in other losses then your device will output 9.99 still not 100% which you break even. Even if you put what power it gives out back to the device to wind it down slower to be .000001 more efficient it will still not be over 100%

So what math do people think that starting off with X amount of power will give you X+1?

Let’s say hypothetically that you did make a device that is 99% efficient then what would be the math or device to make it 101%?

It’s like trying to get more 2 times the room from inside a box while the outside is the same. You can make the calls thinner in the cube to make it 99% efficient but not 101% or 200% efficient. Where does the extra space come from? Or even a full box with water bottles to be able to take 2 times the amount of water. It’s as if you can find a way to get more energy from X amount then you made perpetual motion, and if you find a way to get more room from x amount then you made a worm hole. And the water has to be shrunk down in volume by atomic compression let’s say to fit more.

Unless we take a cheap approach to say a box will join with another box to double its space, the water you free it without the crystals forming, and an energy device has an outside source.

So the only solution in a basic math problem would be 10 input, -4 friction/inefficiency, +5 outside free source like small $5 solar panel, or wind or whatever, to be 11 volts.
And use that 11 output to redirect it back into the device to to be -4 friction +5 outside course and it will be 12 output, and so on to the point the coils can handle the voltage, and up to that point it is used in a bigger device that take take 100 volts, and so on.
 
Kind of like sales how you buy a product (orange), sell it, use the money to buy more, to sell, and so on. It seems to only be a one step back two steps forward. Obviously a faster way it to do 10x2=20 but no one can multiply the Oranges out of this air.

Anyone have any other suggestions on how to mathematically attain X+1 to infinity and explain how it might be done?

It's not efficiency most of us are concerned about, it's coefficient of performance (COP) that reduces the power bill.  The idea behind COP > 1 means the device has the potential to be a self runner.  It may not always be the case, but the potential is there.  If you look into Tetryonics, you'll discover what energy is, where it is and how it might be possible to harness it.  Efficiency comes into play once you have a COP > 1 device and by making the right adjustments you may be able to get more useful energy without having to build more devices.  Again, over unity is a whole different ball game, because once you are clearly in that space, the sky is the limit.  Now you're pulling energy straight from the universe.

I have not seen any come close to COP or perpetual and to seem close is always the case and they all have an issue that they can not escape. So many have failed but all moving devices have the same principle that they all have a hump which all can not avoid.

I feel if free energy is possible for one form of energy then it should be for other forms if the formalin is right.

To pull energy from the universe is a theory for now which can take 10 or 1000 years since no one is sure how long it will be ready, how much it will cost, and how easy it will be. But it you want free energy from outside sources to buy a home with a creek is a good way.

Hello WSX,
"I feel if free energy is possible for one form of energy then it should be for other forms if the formalin is right."
The structure of energy differs so much from one to another, it leaves the conclusion incorrect.

The Math formula for Free energy?
Web search provides. Liquid (Hydro) turbines are more efficient than gas turbines.
Mid range hydro efficiency Francis turbine requires a flow rate of 1 litre per second at 9 bar pressure to produce 720 watts. Electrical energy of 0.076KW heats 1 litre of water by 1 degree Celsius in one minute . 4.56KW needed to heat in one second. Carbon Dioxide-CO2 is liquid at 31*C and has a pressure force of 64 bar. Above 31*C it behaves as a liquid which at 100*C has a pressure force of 10,000 bar. Cold CO2 31*C will pass through hot water and absorb its heat. A CO2 heat increase of 69*C per second delivers 9,936 bar of pressure each second. 9,936 divide by 9 then multiplied by 720 watts produces 794KW, this being the turbine generator output. Playing safe and calling a heat rise need of 100*C per second not the needed 69*C ensures there be wattage compensate to any other heat loss from the water. So being we have a turbine generator outputting 794KW and a water heating electrical draw of 456KW, leaving a balance of 338KW. Any reduction in the 30*C safe margin increases the free energy output. A boiler and turbine constructed of Stainless Steel is more than sufficient to contain the pressures produced.

Quote from DaS Energy on June 25th, 2013, 07:57 PM

Carbon Dioxide-CO2 is liquid at 31*C

I'm still confused Das.  How much energy is required to capture and contain liquid CO2 at room temperature?  And once it goes through a cycle of being heated to 100*C don't you have to pressurize and liquify it again?  Surely you don't just exhaust the stuff into the atmosphere--you would have the carbon police crawling all over you.

The compressors used to fill CO2 fire extinguishers tells me you would need a lot of energy to liquify CO2 quickly enough to keep up with the expansion part of the cycle.

If you can walk me through the process again real slow like you are teaching a child, maybe I can start to understand it.

Thanks,

D1

Hello Dog-One.
"How much energy is required to capture and contain liquid CO2 at room temperature?" I not know how much energy is required to capture and contain liquid CO2 at room temperature. People constructing fire extinguisher may assist to answer that. The pressure need for liquidation drops under 31*C.  Above that temperature no amount of pressure will bring it to liquid.  
"And once it goes through a cycle of being heated to 100*C don't you have to pressurize and liquify it again?" No the pressure to liquefy has not been taken away during the process which adds further pressure force to do the work with.
"Surely you don't just exhaust the stuff into the atmosphere--you would have the carbon police crawling all over you" Correct its a sealed system the same as a fridge. Carbon-CO2 is a natural refrigerant so cooling back to liquid is so easy.
"The compressors used to fill CO2 fire extinguishers tells me you would need a lot of energy to liquify CO2 quickly enough to keep up with the expansion part of the cycle" Should a compressor be employed to return the CO2 to liquid a energy draw is needed. However this only be the case if you wish to down size the condensing chamber by use of vacuum. This also occur if you use a pump to refill the boiler as done in Steam, Energy of 338KW being available for such. However use of the absorption fridge workings does away with the need of any form of pump. My posts contain a pump mechanism, however this is only to keep it simple in helping to understand the system as most have an electric fridge with a compressor rather than boiler type fridge (see Einstein).

Hope of some help.

Peter

Thermal drive turbine one moving part.

Picture wont paste!

Quote from DaS Energy on June 26th, 2013, 10:20 PM

Thermal drive turbine one moving part.

Picture wont paste!

Can you just attach it instead?

Hello Dog-One,

Thank you! No fool like an old fool. Attach right there in front of me.

Peter

Figures used in process.

Electric water heating. Extension of Wattlow Water Heating, Web. Heating one litre 100*C in one minute.
82% efficient turbine output. California University. Web.
Carbon Dioxide-CO2 behaviour. Multi Web.
How a boiler fridge works. Multi web.

Carbon Dioxide-CO2 behaviour is totally unique to all other gasses in that it has within it a pressure spike of 9,936 bar. This  9,936 bar pressure for 70*C of heating occurs between 30*C and 100*C and no where else.  

Okay Das, check my thinking here:

You take relatively cool liquid CO2, pump it to an orifice backed by a check-valve that sprays the liquid onto a heat plate.  The gas rapidly expands where it then turns a turbine blade.  You then take the gas escaping from the turbine and moderately cool and condense it back to a liquid where the cycle is repeated.  Obviously it would make sense to take some of the heat captured in the condenser and pipe it to the heat plate for re-use.

Are you saying the energy needed to heat the liquid and cool the gas would likely be far less than the energy you could capture from the spinning turbine?  If so, that seems very simple to test.  And using CO2 is an ideal substance for this device.  No other would work as well?

I'm still a little fuzzy on the pressure and flow rate aspect.  It seems to me a turbine needs flow rate; pressure differential is just an artifact of the process.

Hello Dog- One
You have got it. Though slightly different as to how we done.
We heat the CO2 by passing it through hot water.
The attached is as close as we be to Carnott.

CO2 apart from being different in behaving like water when a gas, has another advantage. Between 30*C and 100*C it has an amazing pressure spike. 9,936
bar pressure for a heat of 70*C.

Wattlow Water Heating - Web. Wattage figure to heat 1 litre of water 100*C in one minute expanded to one second. 456KW.

CO2 behaviour chart- multi Web. CO2 at 30*C has 64 bar pressure. 100*C it has 10,000 bar pressure.

CO2 liquid like behaviour above 30*C makes it ideal for use in a hydro turbine.
California University-Web. 82% efficient turbine output. Pressure/flow rate.  One litre per second at 9 bar pressure produces 720 watts.

9,936 bar pressure divide by 9 = 1104. Multiply by 720 watts = 794.88KW. Minus 456KW = 338.88KW remainder.

No other gas will work as well though any gas may be used.

The figures are there. A test requires a Stainless Steel construct of turbine and fittings. Direct couple to 60 RPM 795KW generator.