Quenching Tube Design & Build

securesupplies

Quenching Tube Design & Build
« on June 22nd, 2013, 11:39 PM »
Dear Forum Members

I have managed to get a mini break though with the Quenching tube I found a company after talking with hundreds of company I mean hundreds
 which can actually and is willing to make
the tubing very close to the same flexible ptfe and other materias
l and also has options for advancing it.

To progress
they have asked me for exact measurements from a sample pc
or design drawings of it ,  or a actual pc of the tube as a example.

I believe we can get the design done between us all ,

So with you connection to guys who have visiting car etc,
can we get precise micro metre measurements of outside diameter and the inner hole size and out lay out,

I have some design which are from web but they don't cut it.

I have a great ability to get this tube die set made and into production.
I feel it would be a great advance.

The End Cap, "knob" looking end, which is for fastening should also be measured that way we can recreate it precisely,  

I believe the company I have talking made it before but records
of it are not there. Anyways they have said yes they want the business and will do it.

It is straight forward for them as long as we have design drawing and precise measurements done.

Daniel Donatelli
skype daniel.donatelli
danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

HMS-776

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #1, on June 23rd, 2013, 12:35 PM »Last edited on June 23rd, 2013, 01:06 PM by HMS-776
Are you talking about

-multi lumen tubing?
 
Or something else. ....

In the Tech Brief the drawing of the quenching tube states the material is made of a micro size foam.

Also, if you look at the pictures of the tube in Dynodon's hand you can see that it was multi lumen tubing but the holes were filled with ceramic or maybe the foam with the tiny holes extruded in them.

In one of Stan's lectures he said the quenching disc was made of alumina.

What is this business going to be making for you?

I think multi lumen tubing would work but we'll have to test it to be sure.


electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #2, on June 29th, 2013, 04:57 PM »Last edited on June 29th, 2013, 05:02 PM by electro1622
Hi Dan
I have (successfully.?? ) made quenching tubes in the past, but they are rigid....also ,length is restricted to about 1 foot long. The cost is about $50 - $100 ( depending on how many holes you want) ...in materials, but they are easy to get from lab supply companies.
I don't have the one I made anymore because I sent it to someone to test it for me....and I never heard from them again....must have worked..lol..But if anyone is interested, I can maybe make a few more when I make my new ones...and yes, I will make a video on how to make them so everyone can make their own if they want....Cheers.

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #3, on June 30th, 2013, 01:37 AM »


Hi Electro and other my skype is daniel.donatelli ,

Can you post pics video of you items here in this thread I can not find them on
forum?

Yes their are thousand of companies making lab tubing multibore items,

but not many can do the new stan style  die moulds or want to,

ptfe can be made from a supplier I have at present in flexible material which is what I believe stans was made of ,

 the  technical drawing is what I need to develop order with them
so we can exactly replicate stans tubing,  I am taking about the white tubing pictured and the ting 5 - inner extuded tube style pics here,

http://www.securesupplies.biz/#!quench-tubing/c1hvg

any help putting together the technical drawing with inner  hole size and lay out will advance this to become production item, it has to be a high quality technical drawing for them to do it.

Perhaps we can work together to source the original tubing even just to precise get measure all in and out dimensions and gripping terminal on the end etc


the company is prepared make die mould and prove product if I can do exact tech drawings, I don't want to post name of company until it is being made as it is hard to get companies interested, and do not want to flood them with multiple request all we need is drawing and they will do it now.

 I suggest posting tech drawngs here for every one now

It is a very lucking find as I think they may have made stan's original tubes

totally flexible and micro bore multi-bore

hope we can get a precise tech drawing from stans original

Dan


electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #4, on June 30th, 2013, 05:50 PM »Last edited on June 30th, 2013, 11:24 PM by electro1622
Quote from securesupplies on June 30th, 2013, 01:37 AM
Hi Electro and other my skype is daniel.donatelli ,

Can you post pics video of you items here in this thread I can not find them on
forum?

Yes their are thousand of companies making lab tubing multibore items,

but not many can do the new stan style  die moulds or want to,

ptfe can be made from a supplier I have at present in flexible material which is what I believe stans was made of ,

 the  technical drawing is what I need to develop order with them
so we can exactly replicate stans tubing,  I am taking about the white tubing pictured and the ting 5 - inner extuded tube style pics here,

http://www.securesupplies.biz/#!quench-tubing/c1hvg

any help putting together the technical drawing with inner  hole size and lay out will advance this to become production item, it has to be a high quality technical drawing for them to do it.

Perhaps we can work together to source the original tubing even just to precise get measure all in and out dimensions and gripping terminal on the end etc


the company is prepared make die mould and prove product if I can do exact tech drawings, I don't want to post name of company until it is being made as it is hard to get companies interested, and do not want to flood them with multiple request all we need is drawing and they will do it now.

 I suggest posting tech drawngs here for every one now

It is a very lucking find as I think they may have made stan's original tubes

totally flexible and micro bore multi-bore

hope we can get a precise tech drawing from stans original

Dan
Hi Dan
I think you are jumping the gun a little bit.
As I understand it, quenching tube is rather expensive because of min orders.It's not that it can't be made...it can...HOWEVER,....the only purpose of the quenching tube is to prevent flashback.....I have been able to make the quenching tube, but instead of making it in plastic, what I have done is use Alunina rods with 4   10 thou holes in them. This allows me to vary the flow rate to whatever I want simply by adding or subtracting the number of tubes I use to make it...for eg...I can have a 1/2 inch pvc pipe with 10 alumina rods in it ...this will give a quenching tube with 40 holes...easy to make and the rods are available for about $7 bucks each or so.The rods are about a 6 inches long...you can get longer but don't need to...tubes can be cut to whatever size.....
This way we can work out the exact requirements of the tube before we pay thousands to get it made....
I have been working on this for a while now and as you know I can already make the discs which I plan on using in my manifold for my 4 hp motor.
you can get the tubes from the net..I can give you a source if you want, but I prefer to keep them confidential from the general public because of the idiot factor.
I use casting investment to seal the alumina rods in the pvc pipe, but a more practical material would be silicone.
With your request about the technical drawings...should you still like to get them made....I can't imagine it would be too hard to get someone to draw something up on their computer..but I'm a total cluster%^&%  when it comes to stuff like that....old school
Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted through my video's. Just so happens that's the part  I'm up to now in my build,but I'm going to use discs ,not the tube...

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #5, on July 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM »Last edited on July 3rd, 2013, 09:21 AM by securesupplies
Quote from electro1622 on June 30th, 2013, 05:50 PM
Quote from securesupplies on June 30th, 2013, 01:37 AM
Hi Electro and other my skype is daniel.donatelli ,

Can you post pics video of you items here in this thread I can not find them on
forum?

Yes their are thousand of companies making lab tubing multibore items,

but not many can do the new stan style  die moulds or want to,

ptfe can be made from a supplier I have at present in flexible material which is what I believe stans was made of ,

 the  technical drawing is what I need to develop order with them
so we can exactly replicate stans tubing,  I am taking about the white tubing pictured and the ting 5 - inner extuded tube style pics here,

http://www.securesupplies.biz/#!quench-tubing/c1hvg

any help putting together the technical drawing with inner  hole size and lay out will advance this to become production item, it has to be a high quality technical drawing for them to do it.

Perhaps we can work together to source the original tubing even just to precise get measure all in and out dimensions and gripping terminal on the end etc


the company is prepared make die mould and prove product if I can do exact tech drawings, I don't want to post name of company until it is being made as it is hard to get companies interested, and do not want to flood them with multiple request all we need is drawing and they will do it now.

 I suggest posting tech drawngs here for every one now

It is a very lucking find as I think they may have made stan's original tubes

totally flexible and micro bore multi-bore

hope we can get a precise tech drawing from stans original

Dan
Hi Dan
I think you are jumping the gun a little bit.
As I understand it, quenching tube is rather expensive because of min orders.It's not that it can't be made...it can...HOWEVER,....the only purpose of the quenching tube is to prevent flashback.....I have been able to make the quenching tube, but instead of making it in plastic, what I have done is use Alunina rods with 4   10 thou holes in them. This allows me to vary the flow rate to whatever I want simply by adding or subtracting the number of tubes I use to make it...for eg...I can have a 1/2 inch pvc pipe with 10 alumina rods in it ...this will give a quenching tube with 40 holes...easy to make and the rods are available for about $7 bucks each or so.The rods are about a 6 inches long...you can get longer but don't need to...tubes can be cut to whatever size.....
This way we can work out the exact requirements of the tube before we pay thousands to get it made....
I have been working on this for a while now and as you know I can already make the discs which I plan on using in my manifold for my 4 hp motor.
you can get the tubes from the net..I can give you a source if you want, but I prefer to keep them confidential from the general public because of the idiot factor.
I use casting investment to seal the alumina rods in the pvc pipe, but a more practical material would be silicone.
With your request about the technical drawings...should you still like to get them made....I can't imagine it would be too hard to get someone to draw something up on their computer..but I'm a total cluster%^&%  when it comes to stuff like that....old school
Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted through my video's. Just so happens that's the part  I'm up to now in my build,but I'm going to use discs ,not the tube...
===============================================
===============================================

The Tube is a important part as I believe we can use  90% off the shelf parts now
like injectors and flash ecu etc.  PLease see my INjectors pages and Aircraft engine pages - www.securesupplies.biz

Stans Intention for the tube was not  as a individual point stop gap for bang (flash areestor) only,
like a disks or flash back arrestors are , as you rightly pointed out , we have these. And thank to your fine work I might add!! nice.

Stan made the tube to comply with road saftey reg so they couldnt stop the car from being licensed or used
as there is no possibility of a fire bang or explosion any where in the lines as the quench tube is here instead and new and funky pc of tech for hydrogen!!.

For example if a line melts or is  crimped or cut in a accident.
 
The quenching tube over comes that object totally and is very important for that reason.

we can get all the fitting and other parts to plumb it to injectors even righ now
if they are  more standard fuel type injectors /suited or adapted for hydrogen.
and use the quench lines. we can do that now. if we have the quench lines

The cost of mould etc I have it covered
but I want to make a exact replication of stand lines, so it is one more tick box done.

Electro

I acknowledge your fine work on it , it is impressive, what you have done.

BUt for the reason above, I want to push quenching tube  to completion.

It raises the bar up for the next generations of builders to go ahead and not wait for us or copy our mstakes but use new parts to achieve the same end results.
the fundemental knowledge is what is key here.

up take and understand how to over come the objections and adapt every engine in the world right now with many part variations etc !!.

I can tackle the cost on that piece, through to production

but will need the  exact measure up of the lines , so if some one can get it it will be remade from the original quenching tube
it would be wonderful it give other confidence and knowledge on drawing spec and that it has and can be done! EASY

A simple thing, but something that could stop a hydrogen car/bike/boat / from being licensed. So vital
we acknowledge it and complete it .

In oz we have adr rules, Australian car design rules

True Story
once I presented a police man with the adr rules (yes I had a full copy in the car) when he
questioned on some modifications I did once.

His jaw dropped. he had never seen what the yellow folders look like and how big they were,
needless to say he backed off as his line about "not compliant " an he was called in on it
and he failed to go into it as he knew I had read it and he could not understand it ! so car slipped by him just fine.

Also See Wikispeed for similar thinkinghttp://www.wikispeed.com/

So if we are confident on it and complete it in this very important area
others will go like hell fire to install it as it is strengthen the argument for saftey alot once done!!!!
as we have no tank! so safe! HOD hydrogen on demand though quenched tube to meter feed directly into cylinders =safe 100%.

The Mini PEM Cells making 98.5% pure hydrogen are selling well and replacing the hho types.
it is only a matter of time until more people realize they can flash their ecu and modify their existing injector rails and variants there of.
see flashing ecu on my website.

My feeling than is it drops back to the quenching tube needs!! and yes extra measures like flash arestors and disks.

I invite stan fanatics to
 put the exact dimentions of quenching tube from his original tube  in a google scetch up an email me.

Hope you can see my thinking here
danieldonatelli@hotmail.com
Dan


electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #6, on July 3rd, 2013, 04:38 PM »Last edited on July 3rd, 2013, 05:12 PM by electro1622
Quote from securesupplies on July 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM
Quote from electro1622 on June 30th, 2013, 05:50 PM
Quote from securesupplies on June 30th, 2013, 01:37 AM
Hi Electro and other my skype is daniel.donatelli ,

Can you post pics video of you items here in this thread I can not find them on
forum?

Yes their are thousand of companies making lab tubing multibore items,

but not many can do the new stan style  die moulds or want to,

ptfe can be made from a supplier I have at present in flexible material which is what I believe stans was made of ,

 the  technical drawing is what I need to develop order with them
so we can exactly replicate stans tubing,  I am taking about the white tubing pictured and the ting 5 - inner extuded tube style pics here,

http://www.securesupplies.biz/#!quench-tubing/c1hvg

any help putting together the technical drawing with inner  hole size and lay out will advance this to become production item, it has to be a high quality technical drawing for them to do it.

Perhaps we can work together to source the original tubing even just to precise get measure all in and out dimensions and gripping terminal on the end etc


the company is prepared make die mould and prove product if I can do exact tech drawings, I don't want to post name of company until it is being made as it is hard to get companies interested, and do not want to flood them with multiple request all we need is drawing and they will do it now.

 I suggest posting tech drawngs here for every one now

It is a very lucking find as I think they may have made stan's original tubes

totally flexible and micro bore multi-bore

hope we can get a precise tech drawing from stans original

Dan
Hi Dan
I think you are jumping the gun a little bit.
As I understand it, quenching tube is rather expensive because of min orders.It's not that it can't be made...it can...HOWEVER,....the only purpose of the quenching tube is to prevent flashback.....I have been able to make the quenching tube, but instead of making it in plastic, what I have done is use Alunina rods with 4   10 thou holes in them. This allows me to vary the flow rate to whatever I want simply by adding or subtracting the number of tubes I use to make it...for eg...I can have a 1/2 inch pvc pipe with 10 alumina rods in it ...this will give a quenching tube with 40 holes...easy to make and the rods are available for about $7 bucks each or so.The rods are about a 6 inches long...you can get longer but don't need to...tubes can be cut to whatever size.....
This way we can work out the exact requirements of the tube before we pay thousands to get it made....
I have been working on this for a while now and as you know I can already make the discs which I plan on using in my manifold for my 4 hp motor.
you can get the tubes from the net..I can give you a source if you want, but I prefer to keep them confidential from the general public because of the idiot factor.
I use casting investment to seal the alumina rods in the pvc pipe, but a more practical material would be silicone.
With your request about the technical drawings...should you still like to get them made....I can't imagine it would be too hard to get someone to draw something up on their computer..but I'm a total cluster%^&%  when it comes to stuff like that....old school
Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted through my video's. Just so happens that's the part  I'm up to now in my build,but I'm going to use discs ,not the tube...
===============================================
===============================================

The Tube is a important part as I believe we can use  90% off the shelf parts now
like injectors and flash ecu etc.  PLease see my INjectors pages and Aircraft engine pages - www.securesupplies.biz

Stans Intention for the tube was not  as a individual point stop gap for bang (flash areestor) only,
like a disks or flash back arrestors are , as you rightly pointed out , we have these. And thank to your fine work I might add!! nice.

Stan made the tube to comply with road saftey reg so they couldnt stop the car from being licensed or used
as there is no possibility of a fire bang or explosion any where in the lines as the quench tube is here instead and new and funky pc of tech for hydrogen!!.

For example if a line melts or is  crimped or cut in a accident.
 
The quenching tube over comes that object totally and is very important for that reason.

we can get all the fitting and other parts to plumb it to injectors even righ now
if they are  more standard fuel type injectors /suited or adapted for hydrogen.
and use the quench lines. we can do that now. if we have the quench lines

The cost of mould etc I have it covered
but I want to make a exact replication of stand lines, so it is one more tick box done.

Electro

I acknowledge your fine work on it , it is impressive, what you have done.

BUt for the reason above, I want to push quenching tube  to completion.

It raises the bar up for the next generations of builders to go ahead and not wait for us or copy our mstakes but use new parts to achieve the same end results.
the fundemental knowledge is what is key here.

up take and understand how to over come the objections and adapt every engine in the world right now with many part variations etc !!.

I can tackle the cost on that piece, through to production

but will need the  exact measure up of the lines , so if some one can get it it will be remade from the original quenching tube
it would be wonderful it give other confidence and knowledge on drawing spec and that it has and can be done! EASY

A simple thing, but something that could stop a hydrogen car/bike/boat / from being licensed. So vital
we acknowledge it and complete it .

In oz we have adr rules, Australian car design rules

True Story
once I presented a police man with the adr rules (yes I had a full copy in the car) when he
questioned on some modifications I did once.

His jaw dropped. he had never seen what the yellow folders look like and how big they were,
needless to say he backed off as his line about "not compliant " an he was called in on it
and he failed to go into it as he knew I had read it and he could not understand it ! so car slipped by him just fine.

Also See Wikispeed for similar thinkinghttp://www.wikispeed.com/

So if we are confident on it and complete it in this very important area
others will go like hell fire to install it as it is strengthen the argument for saftey alot once done!!!!
as we have no tank! so safe! HOD hydrogen on demand though quenched tube to meter feed directly into cylinders =safe 100%.

The Mini PEM Cells making 98.5% pure hydrogen are selling well and replacing the hho types.
it is only a matter of time until more people realize they can flash their ecu and modify their existing injector rails and variants there of.
see flashing ecu on my website.

My feeling than is it drops back to the quenching tube needs!! and yes extra measures like flash arestors and disks.

I invite stan fanatics to
 put the exact dimentions of quenching tube from his original tube  in a google scetch up an email me.

Hope you can see my thinking here
danieldonatelli@hotmail.com
Dan
Hi Dan
yeah...your right about the safety and all that, and that's good of you to finance it to completion, sort of the same thing I did with the ss wire, but I still think we should get the engine going first before we go and spend heaps of money on something which may change. It may change because we don't have a proper VIC.we can't ionize air the same way.....so we may need different requirements.
If we get it going first, using discs or whatever, it's still safe for our use and then we can make the flexible tube....I mentioned before I can make  a rigid one if I have to, but in the end it's your money so...If you like I can draw you a tech diagram by hand of the measurements, but I can't do professional drawings....My measurements are only estimations, but the only thing that really matters is the quenching hole diameter and we know that already...maybe one of the 3d printer guys can help you with the drawings..??
Last year I gave 2 different people some quenching discs to do some flow tests ( amongst other things ), but they didn't do them for one reason or another....so I can't give you a flow rate which is information I would use when calculating the number of holes.....I've sent some to others...so I will see.
Anyway...Keep me posted and let me know what you want...:)
I also noticed on your site that you say the holes are 0.015 up to 0.025.....
The Discs which I sent to Max Miller...he apparently got flashback in the multihole...Those discs were 0.012...So I would recommend you check you sizes...especially before you get the tube made....bear in mind that mixing hho wit exhaust gas may change this....more testing with what we have..

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #7, on July 3rd, 2013, 08:18 PM »

Disc point
OK noted and even more reason to get tubes.
Disc are alittle subjective to the quality of installer etc.

For engine Running

We should consider that we are stan maniacs!  which is good.
and we should continue. as many benefits to that method.

But we should also note their are people running hydrogen hydride tanks
into injection systems right now and controlling ecu right now,
they are using different method. but engine are running.

To so advance industry as a whole and get the update very high not matter if it
is hho,  hho with pem(more pur gas) to air intake /manifold or to main injectors rail
individual injectors, whether stans or modified or standard h off the shelf.
Or whether to plane engine, which have 2 spark port , and convert on port to inject port ete.

The tubes will help and advance the saftey and uptake alot.

We should understand and be open th and educate people as it  is all converging with our push to share!!!!

so...............

OK let start  you and I have ability to pc i togther and look at flow rate and pressure.  I invite Russ or Nate or other will access to original tube and fillings
to lookvery closely at them and post what they can measure or advise on.

Electro if yo can post the measurements, I will allocate time on flow rates.
it is a very important point and one which you and I can raise awareness on here for every one.

Multi bore tube can hanle the pressures, and the flow rate is import we can work on ball park if we have the pressure 10-25 psi system will work if direct to injectors
we can go up and have staging injectors, but really nature of gas and pressures does not need to be as High as Gasoline. due to the burn rate infact we are trying to slow it down.

So PLease do send measurements and I will  work withmy contact and google sketch up to get comparison and post here for mulitbore ptfe tubing.

I have in back of my min the fittings, on the stan images you will see a flared knob type end.  This look like it is to taks more pressure rather than just pnamtic type

I have on my injector page www.sercuresupplies.biz, I show at bottom of page nitros type conversion. we really want to improve the tubing at this point we can open up alot of off the shelf parts once we know we can match it tubig we have
there is alot out there already!!

So lets begin ....... please post what you did for the metal type version

Dan

 







electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #8, on July 4th, 2013, 02:23 AM »
Quote from securesupplies on July 3rd, 2013, 08:18 PM
Disc point
OK noted and even more reason to get tubes.
Disc are alittle subjective to the quality of installer etc.

For engine Running

We should consider that we are stan maniacs!  which is good.
and we should continue. as many benefits to that method.

But we should also note their are people running hydrogen hydride tanks
into injection systems right now and controlling ecu right now,
they are using different method. but engine are running.

To so advance industry as a whole and get the update very high not matter if it
is hho,  hho with pem(more pur gas) to air intake /manifold or to main injectors rail
individual injectors, whether stans or modified or standard h off the shelf.
Or whether to plane engine, which have 2 spark port , and convert on port to inject port ete.

The tubes will help and advance the saftey and uptake alot.

We should understand and be open th and educate people as it  is all converging with our push to share!!!!

so...............

OK let start  you and I have ability to pc i togther and look at flow rate and pressure.  I invite Russ or Nate or other will access to original tube and fillings
to lookvery closely at them and post what they can measure or advise on.

Electro if yo can post the measurements, I will allocate time on flow rates.
it is a very important point and one which you and I can raise awareness on here for every one.

Multi bore tube can hanle the pressures, and the flow rate is import we can work on ball park if we have the pressure 10-25 psi system will work if direct to injectors
we can go up and have staging injectors, but really nature of gas and pressures does not need to be as High as Gasoline. due to the burn rate infact we are trying to slow it down.

So PLease do send measurements and I will  work withmy contact and google sketch up to get comparison and post here for mulitbore ptfe tubing.

I have in back of my min the fittings, on the stan images you will see a flared knob type end.  This look like it is to taks more pressure rather than just pnamtic type

I have on my injector page www.sercuresupplies.biz, I show at bottom of page nitros type conversion. we really want to improve the tubing at this point we can open up alot of off the shelf parts once we know we can match it tubig we have
there is alot out there already!!

So lets begin ....... please post what you did for the metal type version

Dan

 







[/quote
Hi Dan
"please post what you did for the metal type version"...I think you miss understood me..
Alumina is a ceramic, it's made from aluminium oxide...which is exactly that..the oxide of Aluminium...so it is not metal...it is a super tough ceramic...Americans call Aluminium, Alumina, they also call Alumina , Alumina....Zirconia (what I use ) is also a ceramic , but it is made of Zirconium (Zirconium is a metal ) oxide plus a few stabilizers to stabilize the crystal structure...Pigments for ceramics are usually metal oxides...
So the quenching tubes I mean are Alumina ceramic tubes instead of plastic...that's what makes them rigid....
Anyway... I will send you an email with the drawings, just give me a while as I got heaps on..
With the pressure...I wouldn't like to see much because it's too dangerous.flash arrestor or not, makes me feel uneasy, but I don't think you need a lot in the first place...The fitting you see on the end of the tube is a standard fitting for sealing off tubes...you can even get copper rings in this style aswell...the people who have the tubes should have this..I saw you site on those... Well done on that one.. they look to be right..the pattern is a little different, but so what...
Get a rough price if you can.
Cheers...Paul.

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #9, on July 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM »
I decided to post  to get it moving more ,  


Electro please send me a email danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

I will email back engine running on fuel injection and the kits I have to make that happen, I would like you
to have a look at it and see why I am so exciting about tubing.

We should design it in a way to match flow rates and stand spec.

4mm - 6mm outside diameter

and to suit the modern off the shelf Pneumatic Tubing & Accessories

Can you have a look at the file Diagram multibore ptfa tubing

any help to advance drawing is welcomed


Dan

electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #10, on July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM »
Quote from securesupplies on July 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM
I decided to post  to get it moving more ,  


Electro please send me a email danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

I will email back engine running on fuel injection and the kits I have to make that happen, I would like you
to have a look at it and see why I am so exciting about tubing.

We should design it in a way to match flow rates and stand spec.

4mm - 6mm outside diameter

and to suit the modern off the shelf Pneumatic Tubing & Accessories

Can you have a look at the file Diagram multibore ptfa tubing

any help to advance drawing is welcomed


Dan
Hi Dan
Looks like you already got a drawing...The 10 thou hole tubes are different on your drawing than the ones you have ticked in the different types available...Also , the end can have the knob piece formed into it when made if you have a predetermined length.You just have to know what seat you have in your fitting..There is no one size fits all.
And yes...we should design in a way to match flow rates and standard spec....
spot on ....Now.... what is the flow rate.???? or more importantly, what range of flow rate will each set of tubes allow..(max/min).Then you can calculate what you need...that's why I want flow rate...to see how many holes needed to match production of cell..to match need of engine...does ionized gas affect amount needed ..all that !!...we don't know any of it...

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #11, on July 5th, 2013, 11:02 PM »Last edited on July 5th, 2013, 11:13 PM by securesupplies
Quote from electro1622 on July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM
Quote from securesupplies on July 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM
I decided to post  to get it moving more ,  


Electro please send me a email danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

I will email back engine running on fuel injection and the kits I have to make that happen, I would like you
to have a look at it and see why I am so exciting about tubing.

We should design it in a way to match flow rates and stand spec.

4mm - 6mm outside diameter

and to suit the modern off the shelf Pneumatic Tubing & Accessories

Can you have a look at the file Diagram multibore ptfa tubing

any help to advance drawing is welcomed


Dan
Hi Dan
Looks like you already got a drawing...The 10 thou hole tubes are different on your drawing than the ones you have ticked in the different types available...Also , the end can have the knob piece formed into it when made if you have a predetermined length.You just have to know what seat you have in your fitting..There is no one size fits all.
And yes...we should design in a way to match flow rates and standard spec....
spot on ....Now.... what is the flow rate.???? or more importantly, what range of flow rate will each set of tubes allow..(max/min).Then you can calculate what you need...that's why I want flow rate...to see how many holes needed to match production of cell..to match need of engine...does ionized gas affect amount needed ..all that !!...we don't know any of it...
ok lets firm the numbers,
My drawing is a start and guide I want to refine number with you to get closer to perfect before I make it..

Question 1.
Electro what do you think the internal hole sizes should be to correctly quench.?


Dan



electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #12, on July 6th, 2013, 05:35 AM »Last edited on July 6th, 2013, 05:44 AM by electro1622
Quote from securesupplies on July 5th, 2013, 11:02 PM
Quote from electro1622 on July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM
Quote from securesupplies on July 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM
I decided to post  to get it moving more ,  


Electro please send me a email danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

I will email back engine running on fuel injection and the kits I have to make that happen, I would like you
to have a look at it and see why I am so exciting about tubing.

We should design it in a way to match flow rates and stand spec.

4mm - 6mm outside diameter

and to suit the modern off the shelf Pneumatic Tubing & Accessories

Can you have a look at the file Diagram multibore ptfa tubing

any help to advance drawing is welcomed


Dan
Hi Dan
Looks like you already got a drawing...The 10 thou hole tubes are different on your drawing than the ones you have ticked in the different types available...Also , the end can have the knob piece formed into it when made if you have a predetermined length.You just have to know what seat you have in your fitting..There is no one size fits all.
And yes...we should design in a way to match flow rates and standard spec....
spot on ....Now.... what is the flow rate.???? or more importantly, what range of flow rate will each set of tubes allow..(max/min).Then you can calculate what you need...that's why I want flow rate...to see how many holes needed to match production of cell..to match need of engine...does ionized gas affect amount needed ..all that !!...we don't know any of it...
ok lets firm the numbers,
My drawing is a start and guide I want to refine number with you to get closer to perfect before I make it..

Question 1.
Electro what do you think the internal hole sizes should be to correctly quench.?


Dan
Hey Dan
I have given some new discs to someone to test which have 10 tou holes...I haven't heard their results yet, but they haven't had them that long....When I know , I will let you know...
The ones Max has were 12 thou.. so we know that 12 thou is too big for straight  hho with the mutihole disc, may be ok for mixed hho with exhaust, but Max hasn't done that test..??I thought they would work ok but they apparently didn't.
Russ had both sizes... I sent an explanation email about  the discs, but he didn't mention which was which...so long ago I don't remember..I've made heaps of these things till I got them right...
SO...I think if you should wait till testing is done so you spend your money wisely.....Like I said in my fist post...lol..
Cheers...Paul.:D

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #13, on July 6th, 2013, 08:37 AM »
Quote from electro1622 on July 6th, 2013, 05:35 AM
Quote from securesupplies on July 5th, 2013, 11:02 PM
Quote from electro1622 on July 4th, 2013, 07:50 PM
Quote from securesupplies on July 4th, 2013, 03:25 AM
I decided to post  to get it moving more ,  


Electro please send me a email danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

I will email back engine running on fuel injection and the kits I have to make that happen, I would like you
to have a look at it and see why I am so exciting about tubing.

We should design it in a way to match flow rates and stand spec.

4mm - 6mm outside diameter

and to suit the modern off the shelf Pneumatic Tubing & Accessories

Can you have a look at the file Diagram multibore ptfa tubing

any help to advance drawing is welcomed


Dan
Hi Dan
Looks like you already got a drawing...The 10 thou hole tubes are different on your drawing than the ones you have ticked in the different types available...Also , the end can have the knob piece formed into it when made if you have a predetermined length.You just have to know what seat you have in your fitting..There is no one size fits all.
And yes...we should design in a way to match flow rates and standard spec....
spot on ....Now.... what is the flow rate.???? or more importantly, what range of flow rate will each set of tubes allow..(max/min).Then you can calculate what you need...that's why I want flow rate...to see how many holes needed to match production of cell..to match need of engine...does ionized gas affect amount needed ..all that !!...we don't know any of it...
ok lets firm the numbers,
My drawing is a start and guide I want to refine number with you to get closer to perfect before I make it..

Question 1.
Electro what do you think the internal hole sizes should be to correctly quench.?


Dan
Hey Dan
I have given some new discs to someone to test which have 10 tou holes...I haven't heard their results yet, but they haven't had them that long....When I know , I will let you know...
The ones Max has were 12 thou.. so we know that 12 thou is too big for straight  hho with the mutihole disc, may be ok for mixed hho with exhaust, but Max hasn't done that test..??I thought they would work ok but they apparently didn't.
Russ had both sizes... I sent an explanation email about  the discs, but he didn't mention which was which...so long ago I don't remember..I've made heaps of these things till I got them right...
SO...I think if you should wait till testing is done so you spend your money wisely.....Like I said in my fist post...lol..
Cheers...Paul.:D
Hi  discs may work different to tubes?

This is now urgent ,

Check my website main page particulary alternate fuel menus
the is major covergence going on
people are starting to wake up!!

I am trying to keep up with info

Key areas to finish
 
vic + bobbin  
11 cell design in cad
quench tubes

these things key the key part for stans over the line and rest will be history!

Dan
www.securesupplies.biz


RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #14, on July 10th, 2013, 10:31 AM »
Hi Electro


  When you say under 10 thou,  does that mean under 250 microns  (1 thou inches = 25.4 microns)?

 The bend radius of the polymer capillaries are generally 5- 10 times the OD.

I have attached this for people to see it is very unique what we are re making here

the cost of making is 1200 for die and moulds and than it work out to 15 per meter at this stage as a price indication  all donation accepted to support it back into life!! outside diameter is be done along with fttings same time
dan
www.securesupplies.biz

electro1622

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #15, on July 12th, 2013, 06:13 PM »
Quote from securesupplies on July 10th, 2013, 10:31 AM
Hi Electro


  When you say under 10 thou,  does that mean under 250 microns  (1 thou inches = 25.4 microns)?

 The bend radius of the polymer capillaries are generally 5- 10 times the OD.

I have attached this for people to see it is very unique what we are re making here

the cost of making is 1200 for die and moulds and than it work out to 15 per meter at this stage as a price indication  all donation accepted to support it back into life!! outside diameter is be done along with fttings same time
dan
www.securesupplies.biz
Hi Dan
YEP...10 thou is 254 microns...
that is the size of each of the tiny holes in the tube..
A flow rate will let you calculate how many holes you need for a particular application,or more precisely, what MAXIMUM amount each tube can pass..
it's the size of the holes I've been experimenting with..
Max got flashback with 12 thou multihole but no flashback with 12 thou single hole..more work to be done..also, like he pointed out, tubes may behave different to discs...don't know yet..Cheers...Paul.

Ravenous Emu

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #16, on July 19th, 2013, 07:38 PM »Last edited on July 19th, 2013, 07:39 PM by Ravenous Emu
Secure,

Here's what I've come up with.
I'm not familiar with tolerancing dimensions.

For the smallest holes... I kind of picked an arbitrary size. :D

securesupplies

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #17, on July 20th, 2013, 02:14 AM »Last edited on July 20th, 2013, 02:22 AM by securesupplies
Quote from Ravenous Emu on July 19th, 2013, 07:38 PM
Secure,

Here's what I've come up with.
I'm not familiar with tolerancing dimensions.

For the smallest holes... I kind of picked an arbitrary size. :D
================================

YEah Baby Slamming the drawings now!!

OK for those following  we have done this in  in 10 thous or under for bore holes,
the outside diameter is 2mm of tube or 4mm the reason for this is to match fittings

we have choosen not to ask for hospital medical grade as cheaper to avoid that the material being discussed  in

Polycarbonate would be the best, costwise and durability.  If greater temperature resistance is needed,  than ULTEM 1000 would be good.

Bitchin Work 'Ravenous Emu'

All other click like for us gold star and all !

God Speed

RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #18, on July 21st, 2013, 02:27 AM »
Quote from securesupplies on July 20th, 2013, 02:14 AM
Quote from Ravenous Emu on July 19th, 2013, 07:38 PM
Secure,

Here's what I've come up with.
I'm not familiar with tolerancing dimensions.

For the smallest holes... I kind of picked an arbitrary size. :D
================================

YEah Baby Slamming the drawings now!!

OK for those following  we have done this in  in 10 thous or under for bore holes,
the outside diameter is 2mm of tube or 4mm the reason for this is to match fittings

we have choosen not to ask for hospital medical grade as cheaper to avoid that the material being discussed  in

Polycarbonate would be the best, costwise and durability.  If greater temperature resistance is needed,  than ULTEM 1000 would be good.

Bitchin Work 'Ravenous Emu'

All other click like for us gold star and all !

God Speed
============================

Hey Rav Emu

What Software you using.

Dan
RE: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #19, on July 22nd, 2013, 09:38 PM »

07/22/2013
Ok Builders, I have a professional Factory with ability and want to support the
project . For Quenching tube Build and Die set build.

I can make 10-20 Meter of Tubing to start to check it and check it work and
will fit fitting etc.  This is development build and test run.

If you can support this project buy chipping in with some money $150-200  per person you will be first to get a pc of tubing for test and evaluation.  if ten meters  we need 10 people.  get a meter each .  than after price should be lower we can do a bigger run if spec right , and or we adjust spec from this trail order.  

after we can get it regular basis 14.90 per meter or less withvolume

please danieldonatelli@hotmail.com

Quenching Build and Tube Order
Six holed Capillary tubing 0.0625 inches OD hole size 0.005 inches
Custom Capillary ... Raw PC rod 2 39.65 79.30
CUSTOM Machining..
Machine PC rod to fabricate 6 holed preform, clean, and bake 2 165.00 330.00
Cap Custom Order... Tower set up fee 1 600.00 600.00
Custom Capillary ... Draw 6 holed capillary tubing to 1.5875mm, hole size 127um +/- 5%, Straight draw,

per meter 10m x 14.90   =149.00

Sub Total Discounted Total for ten meters $ 1,534.30

S&H Shipping & Handling $65 UPS ground,
other options available at checkout 65.00 65.00

If I ship to individual I will quote at time of shipping.

Daniel
www.securesupplies.biz
Re: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #20, on January 31st, 2015, 07:28 PM »
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.????????????

Re: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #21, on January 31st, 2015, 07:30 PM »
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.????????????


Re: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #22, on January 31st, 2015, 08:05 PM »
Brand
:Cole Palmer PTFE Tube
100 ft
PTFE,1/4 x 3/8" Tubing,

Check inside diameter 0.012 of small tubes or smaller
http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/Col...

Target is .0.10 to 0.015
to quench hydrogen flash backs

Outside tubing
1/4 id 3/5 od

30 tubes in a bundle
Re: Quenching Tube Design & Build
« Reply #24, on January 31st, 2015, 08:06 PM »
Use this translucent tubing in extreme temperatures and in harsh chemical environments. It's chemically inert, has low permeability, and has the lowest friction coefficient of any tubing. Temperature range is –400 to 500°F (–240 to 260°C); melts at 620°F (327°C). Tensile strength is 2500 to 4000 psi. PTFE tubing resin is UL-recognized and complies with FDA (21 CFR 177.1550) and USP Class VI requirements.