The problem with most motors is that they did not evolve much and are not efficient. For a motor to have more resistance when moving and stops quickly it just seems like that is not the way to go.

I hear some people show links to new very efficient motors which have not come out yet but I'll believe it when I see it. Shouldn't the motors be dealt with first when it comes to electromagnetic energy?

Even bearing are not as good and shouldn't magnetic bearing be used more?

What's the point of having an efficient device when the motor you use drags it down. I think if one wants to make an efficient motor they have to be in the mindset to eat sleep shower Poo clean efficient in every way. How can one attain an efficient device in their project if they do not see all that needs to be done efficient outside of their project?

It's almost like this quote by C.S. Lewis
“No man knows how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good. A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is. After all, you find out the strength of the German army by fighting against it, not by giving in. You find out the strength of a wind by trying to walk against it, not by lying down. A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people, in one sense, know very little about badness — they have lived a sheltered life by always giving in. We never find out the strength of the evil impulse inside us until we try to fight it: and Christ, because He was the only man who never yielded to temptation, is also the only man who knows to the full what temptation means — the only complete realist.”

So with that in mind is someone a realist in being 100% efficient in life to transfer over their ideas into a device? Maybe it might help to be in that state of mind or maybe some feel it does not matter. Maybe some disagree but it's just a thought.

So what electromagnetic motor is best? Or can someone come up with a better design?
Maybe a star ship coil motor, or a Primer Field motor.

Very valid question!
Narrowing the gap between the rotor and the stator in a standard squirrel cage motor would not only increase the electromagnetic coupling but also lower the air friction inbetween the two, maybe one idea would be to seal the ends of the rotor and pump vacuum there instead?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stator

Quote from Lynx on June 21st, 2013, 11:54 PM

Very valid question!
Narrowing the gap between the rotor and the stator in a standard squirrel cage motor would not only increase the electromagnetic coupling but also lower the air friction inbetween the two, maybe one idea would be to seal the ends of the rotor and pump vacuum there instead?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stator

Some suggestions are to reduce the distance from the coil winding to the metal end, since the further the magnetic force from the end the less power, and as we see motors have a big thick metal.


I agree a vacuum sealed motor is another good idea to reduce air friction, but it’s impossible to remove all the air. Maybe substitute oxygen with another gas which low viscosity like hydrogen? And when it’s filled with it then vacuums it and what is left is a little hydrogen if hydrogen has the least viscosity. Or maybe some might think a a low viscosity liquid might be the way.
List of viscosity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity

Another is to make the squirrel-cage rotor as smooth and cylindrical as possible to be cased in a resin so not to have drag which most motors have. And when it mean smooth I mean so smooth that it shines and you can not see any bumps on it with a microscope. Maybe that needs a woman’s touch to use her super fine nail fillers that make shine. LOL So what little gas the encased motor has the air drag is also reduced. Aerodynamic is knows for a long time but never used at the smallest thing.

As I said in another post the wasted electromagnetism from the coil winding towards the inside seem to go all the way to the other end to be able to use both side than one.

Wouldn’t all that push the efficiency over 50% or over 80%? No heat emitted and no noise which indicated that it should be efficient.

If the motor is over 50% efficient shouldn’t the energy that the motor produces be put back into powering the motor more to “multiply” its energy to compound it than just “adding” energy?

So air friction in this way is reduced greatly, and using magnetic bearings reduce physical friction, to use both sides of the electromagnetic coil, proper coil winding as stated in other post, and to compound its energy.

Just curious.  I have never seen one, but would it be possible to have a motor that instead of using silicon steel laminates, use ferrite?  Seems this might work well for very high speed motors.

I've also seen on disk drive and fan motors where the coil has no core at all.  In this case, the coil is stationary and flat (pancake), much like a pulse motor with rotating magnets.

Regardless, unless you are using superconductors, I would still think you need cooling for the coils, so evacuation out all air would probably prove to be a bad idea.  Unless you can provide another good physical contact medium for the coil to dissipate its heat back into the enclosure.  Copper is pretty good at that.

I don't know wsx, I would have to conclude the best efficiency would be had by digitally controlled pulse motor arrangements; I think that's why you see them used in modern fan motors.  They are powerful, small and turn a good share of electrical energy into rotating mechanical force.  Especially when using air core coils because you can almost completely work-around the Lenz effect using digital timing.  There is basically no attraction between the magnets and any ferrous metallic object to deal with.

What I don't see being implemented with these motors are the techniques of Doug Konzen (Konehead) where energy is captured and re-used.  He has proven that when you pass a magnet over a coil and you short the coil right at the voltage peak, you can charge capacitors quite rapidly with no load imposed on the spinning magnets.  His designs are motor/alternators and could easily push the overall efficiency of a motor near 100%, maybe more.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Doug_Konzen_%28Konehead%29_on_Self-Looped_Generators
http://merlib.org/node/5775

Quote from Dog-One on June 22nd, 2013, 02:16 PM

Regardless, unless you are using superconductors, I would still think you need cooling for the coils, so evacuation out all air would probably prove to be a bad idea.  Unless you can provide another good physical contact medium for the coil to dissipate its heat back into the enclosure.  Copper is pretty good at that.

I agree, the coils needs cooling, both the rotor and the stator coils.
As it is now what little air there is between the rotor & stator creates friction & heat so perhaps it would be a good idea to seal off the rotor and evacuate that, however small, amount of air there is between the rotor & stator, just to create a as frictionless environment as possible in there in order to reduce whatever small amount of drag/friction/heat losses the air in there creates as the rotor spins.
The stator will still need it's cooling, AAMOF the fan at the end of the rotor is what provides for all the cooling there is on any standard squirrel cage motor today and unless, as you say, superconductors are used the fan stays, otherwise you would have to like submerge the motor in some electrically none conducting liquid which you continously cool down using an external heat exchanger, so you'd sort of transfer the job of cooling down the motor to some other energy consuming device, including it's native active losses, so in the end you'd actually end up losing energy on such a deal.

I like the DC Permanent magnet motors. Ive used one that had only 2 brushes and it would make anywhere between 3500 to 4000 RPM at 24 volts no load. The only thing that i would have liked to change on it wast to put a single 180 degree magnet just to see if it would work better. So ya i know im not a wealth of info but anyway. :)

Dog one
Yeah some rotors have no core as you said which kind of look like this but those have brushes which cause some friction.
http://www.web-books.com/eLibrary/Books/B1/B1396/MAIN/images/02460.png
If they sealed it it might be better. Wouldn’t the empty space go to waste in that type of rotor?

Computer processors have no air and run hot too, but the heat sink helps. But older computers did not need much cooling down, unless overclocked.

If you want liquid then maybe encase the rotor with liquid of your choice (what would be good?)  before sealing it. But isn’t the real issue being ignored, that if there is heat then it is not efficient and it is not meant to go that fast. Isn’t it that the faster it goes the less efficient it may be?

So obviously the more energy you put into a motor the hotter it will get. As stated in the other posts to have a more efficient way to reduce the friction within the wires, and to make it flat so that less loss and more electricity to go through which would mean less heat. Right?

Yeah the digital motors sounds good too, but wouldn’t circuits take a % of power away from it since none are 100% efficient? But something is missing with it to make it perfect. All metals are electromagnetic when dealing with the lenz effect so I do not understand what you mean.

I don’t get Konehead, since if what he did is free energy when why discuses it and ust get it or make it.

Lynx
Another suggestion is if the scale was bigger then the % of the gap between the rotor and the stator would not matter as much. Kind of like a paining if your see it up close how it has to be perfect and no errors or far away which looks detailed despite many margins of errors.
I was dealing with an old fan motor and the gap is so small that to be all by a millimeter the rotor will not spin, and when it goes both become hot. For it being so close a magnetic bearing would shift it off to not make it work might be the problem due to the strength of the stator coils. It can be improved as you say but it seems to have a limit, or at least it won’t work if too close.

If heat was the issue then putting a motor in Antarctica would work for free energy, and if that’s the case then that seems to only be sweeping the issue under the rug (Antarctica).

So the other issue is heat. The rotating action has one solution to remove air friction and physical friction. So should we work around the inefficient coil motors that has the issue or around the solution that resolves the friction is one issue? Unless someone else has a better idea to work around?

Cory
Wouldn’t a custom made180 electromagnetic work the same?

Quote from cory991 on June 22nd, 2013, 08:20 PM

I like the DC Permanent magnet motors. Ive used one that had only 2 brushes and it would make anywhere between 3500 to 4000 RPM at 24 volts no load. The only thing that i would have liked to change on it wast to put a single 180 degree magnet just to see if it would work better. So ya i know im not a wealth of info but anyway. :)

No brushes at all  --  Speed can go beyond 5,000 RPMs. Ony 2 free spin bearings.
Around 7 watts to operate what you see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYHY5CDxQLo

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 28th, 2013, 04:03 PM

No brushes at all  --  Speed can go beyond 5,000 RPMs. Ony 2 free spin bearings.
Around 7 watts to operate what you see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYHY5CDxQLo

Tom, for grins have you ever connected a fan blade on your rotor magnet shaft to get an idea of how much torque the thing is capable of?

Quote from Dog-One on June 28th, 2013, 07:28 PM

Quote from POPSCAN1 on June 28th, 2013, 04:03 PM

No brushes at all  --  Speed can go beyond 5,000 RPMs. Ony 2 free spin bearings.
Around 7 watts to operate what you see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYHY5CDxQLo

Tom, for grins have you ever connected a fan blade on your rotor magnet shaft to get an idea of how much torque the thing is capable of?

A 10  inch fan blade is connected and the torque is teriffic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0dpoF9Bse8

Tom