Maybe I don't get it but does anyone see a problem with this basic design that 1/2 the power is wasted?
(random picture found online as a rough example, the same can be said about a Bedini motor or some other motors )


I must be wrong on something since many would have seen it and done something, so when they don't then that means I don't get it... right?

You have the electromagnet which can push "North" (for example) the magnets in the center wheel from the side that is facing it. But shouldn't the electromagnet side that is facing away "South" (that can pull) from the device be used too?

 For example wouldn't it be better if the pulling side "South" was used and attracting another wheel? Or have the electromagnet in a U Tube that goes back to the wheel? Or Maybe have the electromagnet be in a C shape which both the north and south side hit both sides of the same magnet on the wheel?

I see plenty of commercial motors just use one side of the electromagnet while the other side is not use to be wasted. Or does using both sides of the electromagnet weaken one side?

You notice how when you turn on a light it radiates all over and you have a reflector to focus the light at a point to make it stronger and more efficient in what you want to see. So wouldn't that principle in a way be kind of used in focusing or using all the electromagnet's magnetism all over to not have loss? Even a fire in zero gravity radiates and one can not cook as efficient if the fire is not concentrate if it radiates.

I can even go as far to say maybe the magnetism around the electromagnet is wasted which being inside a tube make the outside tube magnetic as well? To have a tube, the magnetized wire, then a tube again.

Thanks

Quote from wsx on May 18th, 2013, 01:32 PM

Maybe I don't get it but does anyone see a problem with this basic design that 1/2 the power is wasted?
(random picture found online as a rough example, the same can be said about a Bedini motor or some other motors )


I must be wrong on something since many would have seen it and done something, so when they don't then that means I don't get it... right?

You have the electromagnet which can push "North" (for example) the magnets in the center wheel from the side that is facing it. But shouldn't the electromagnet side that is facing away "South" (that can pull) from the device be used too?

 For example wouldn't it be better if the pulling side "South" was used and attracting another wheel? Or have the electromagnet in a U Tube that goes back to the wheel? Or Maybe have the electromagnet be in a C shape which both the north and south side hit both sides of the same magnet on the wheel?

I see plenty of commercial motors just use one side of the electromagnet while the other side is not use to be wasted. Or does using both sides of the electromagnet weaken one side?

You notice how when you turn on a light it radiates all over and you have a reflector to focus the light at a point to make it stronger and more efficient in what you want to see. So wouldn't that principle in a way be kind of used in focusing or using all the electromagnet's magnetism all over to not have loss? Even a fire in zero gravity radiates and one can not cook as efficient if the fire is not concentrate if it radiates.

I can even go as far to say maybe the magnetism around the electromagnet is wasted which being inside a tube make the outside tube magnetic as well? To have a tube, the magnetized wire, then a tube again.

Thanks

Well your not really waisting energy, as the other side is just a return for the magnetic field of the stator.
However I do see what your saying that you could use another wheel and make a second rotar.

What I would try if I were you is making two plates with perm magnets on them with alternating S and N poles (like any DC motor). Put the plates side by side. Then get a soft iron rod and carefully heat it and bend it in to a U. Then wrap the coils like a stator.

This may not work but its an idea. Give your thought a try in a real test.

But a regular magnet does not get weak when you put load on the other side. If you say it only applies to electromagnet then how badly does the other side get drained?

But isn't the electromagnet North contacting the South of the magnet to fulfill its pull?
Is the the electromagnets South is in contact with nothing? Then how?
OR With the magnet's North? Then it's traveling far and being wasted?
Or With It's own north? So the electromagnet has to pull the other north and it's own?

If I stick a pile of magnets on top of each other the pull from the center magnet on outside forces is not as strong or present, as if it has a small funnel to pull/push it seems. So doesn't electromagnets and magnets act the same?

I could not find a definitive answer or example of magnetic fields strengths, distance or direction when combined with multiple magnets weather electromagnetic or regular.

Thanks

I have to agree.

Two rotors with a gear drive to keep them synchronized seems far better at capturing the full extent of the magnetic field generated.

I would also have the current reversible so that it pulls towards alignment, then switches and pushes to approximately the half-way in between mark.  With the proper size rotor and number of permanent magnets, you could get the spacing adjusted in such a way to fully optimize the magnetic forces and power consumption of the drive coil.

What is really needed is a device or material that acts as a magnetic diode, then building a all permanent magnet motor would be a cinch.  Replace the coil with a permanent magnet first.  Then all you would need is to place this diode in the proper place and the magnets would attract until they hit the gate area where they would then release.  Give the rotor a little push and it would accelerate until it hit some frictional constant.

Quote from Dog-One on May 18th, 2013, 05:13 PM

I have to agree.

Two rotors with a gear drive to keep them synchronized seems far better at capturing the full extent of the magnetic field generated.

I would also have the current reversible so that it pulls towards alignment, then switches and pushes to approximately the half-way in between mark.  With the proper size rotor and number of permanent magnets, you could get the spacing adjusted in such a way to fully optimize the magnetic forces and power consumption of the drive coil.

What is really needed is a device or material that acts as a magnetic diode, then building a all permanent magnet motor would be a cinch.  Replace the coil with a permanent magnet first.  Then all you would need is to place this diode in the proper place and the magnets would attract until they hit the gate area where they would then release.  Give the rotor a little push and it would accelerate until it hit some frictional constant.

Yea like an electromagnetic flux shield? Something to turn the field of a magnet on and off with very little energy would cause an explosion of over unity devices that actually work.

I have looked in to this idea many times, their is no known material to do this. At least one that the public doesnt know of.

Quote from Dog-One on May 18th, 2013, 05:13 PM

I have to agree.

Two rotors with a gear drive to keep them synchronized seems far better at capturing the full extent of the magnetic field generated.

Which is one suggestion I gave, but since you agree why have I not seen others do that is what I was wondering if it's right. So would you say 1/2 the energy is wasted?

Since I see it as a leak like a air tank leaks you put your hand near it and feel it blow, but for a electromagnet to have a leak to waste energy then wouldn't a iron metal detect where it's loss is?

Also I hope I explained the other suggested solutions if someone only wants 1 rotor.
Thanks

Quote from wsx on May 18th, 2013, 08:11 PM

Quote from Dog-One on May 18th, 2013, 05:13 PM

I have to agree.

Two rotors with a gear drive to keep them synchronized seems far better at capturing the full extent of the magnetic field generated.

Which is one suggestion I gave, but since you agree why have I not seen others do that is what I was wondering if it's right. So would you say 1/2 the energy is wasted?

Since I see it as a leak like a air tank leaks you put your hand near it and feel it blow, but for a electromagnet to have a leak to waste energy then wouldn't a iron metal detect where it's loss is?

Also I hope I explained the other suggested solutions if someone only wants 1 rotor.
Thanks

Well its hard to explain. Because your right about energy being waisted, but its in the sense of it jsut not being used. The other side of the stator is the return side of the magnetic flux field. So no its not being waisted, but more along the lines of not being utilized. So yes its being waisted, and no its not being waisted haha you see what I mean.

The fact that you thought of this is great, the only thing is that this isnt the design of a motor, its the design of an electrical generator. Actual motors used small coils around a plated iron body (like transformers). So im not sure how strong the return side is going to have.

My suggestion is start small scale. Really small scale so you dont end up waisting money.