Current versus voltage?

nav

Current versus voltage?
« on March 22nd, 2013, 11:47 AM »Last edited on March 22nd, 2013, 11:50 AM by nav
Hi all,
Something that i'm not quite understanding in Meyers cell and the experiments that you guys have been performing recently.
Firstly, i'd like to take an example of a straight forward battery/capacitor/load circuit which could be a camera flash. The battery charges the cap until the cap has the same potential as the battery then it stops. Once it has charged to its potential, a switch is opened and the potential in the cap is sent to the flash gun. Current can be measured on both the charging of the cap and the discharging of the cap. So far so good.
Now lets complicate that simple circuit a little further by adding a resonant inductor to it. We will place an inductor in parallel with the cap, the battery charges the cap to its potential and then won't take on anymore charge, the cap then becomes naturally resonant with the inductor at lets say 2Khz. It will resonate until the resistive losses in the conductors joining them together gets the better of it or until the flashgun is switched on. again so far so good.
Meyers cell IMHO has a slight problem in reaching its full charging potential. Lets go back to the simple camera flash and switch the flash on before the cap has reached its full charging potential, what happens?
Well, I would imagine that the battery current would flow directly into the flash and not allow the cap to charge hardly at all and it would be the resistance of the flash continually draining the cap of its potential that would be the problem. There would be no voltage build up because there is a current drain on the cap.
Meyer's water cell if it were a water capacitor has no switch to turn the current flow off and so would be totally relying on the dielectric constant of the water to inhibit current drain on the cap.
I see lots of people have problems measuring voltage on the cap and the whole apparatus being current induced. To me that would make absolute perfect sense because just like charging a flash gun when the flash is switched on, the flash is draining the voltage potential of the cap and the water is doing exactly the same to the cap in the water fuel cell. To me it doesn't matter what current you use to charge the cap whether its a pair of resonant charging chokes, AC current or a battery - if the cap has a drain on the voltage potential you will never ever charge the cap and reach the high voltage field Meyer talks about. The problem of course being that tap water is conductive. I was reading one of Meyers patents last night for a few hours and Stan definitely states that the cap is charged to a voltage potential and maintained at that voltage always. The electric field which is created in the process is actually doing the work in the water and no current at all.
If the whole system is conductive from the secondary winding of the transformer, through the coils and the cap then back to the transformer then it will induce current. It is like trying to create a voltage potential half way down an electrical conductor such as a piece of copper wire - seems impossible.
I was wondering how members seem to be tackling the problem of the conductive water current draining the cap instantly?

Ravenous Emu

RE: Current versus voltage?
« Reply #1, on March 22nd, 2013, 06:17 PM »Last edited on March 22nd, 2013, 06:22 PM by Ravenous Emu
Quote from nav on March 22nd, 2013, 11:47 AM
Something that i'm not quite understanding in Meyers cell and the experiments that you guys have been performing recently...
I was wondering how members seem to be tackling the problem of the conductive water current draining the cap instantly?
That is what the Inductors are for.  If you increase the frequency, the inductors have an "inductive reactance" aka "resistance" that increases also.  Thus limiting current.

It gets a little more technical than that... However, that seems to be a very simplified way of explaining it. :D :cool: :P
Excellent Sources of Information:
http://www.play-hookey.com/dc_theory/
http://www.play-hookey.com/ac_theory/
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/index.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit (Figure 8)


Heuristicobfuscation

RE: Current versus voltage?
« Reply #3, on March 22nd, 2013, 09:06 PM »
Quote from nav on March 22nd, 2013, 11:47 AM
if the cap has a drain on the voltage potential you will never ever charge the cap and reach the high voltage field Meyer talks about.
Maybe what your failing to see [correct me if im wrong] is that the capacitor is polarized. This means it has a vector potential charge and vector potential dishcarge. It has an anode and a cathode.

Once charged it wants to discharge in opposite direction .[Reverse Polar Flow]
Diode allows charging cap to be charged  but does not allow capacitor to discharge.

From the vic circuit point of view  the cap has a constant polar potential [anode and cathode]. This also further impedes charge draining back into the circuit. A positive potential repels a positive potential.

nav

RE: Current versus voltage?
« Reply #4, on March 24th, 2013, 09:37 AM »Last edited on March 24th, 2013, 09:49 AM by nav
Quote from Heuristicobfuscation on March 22nd, 2013, 09:06 PM
Quote from nav on March 22nd, 2013, 11:47 AM
if the cap has a drain on the voltage potential you will never ever charge the cap and reach the high voltage field Meyer talks about.
Maybe what your failing to see [correct me if im wrong] is that the capacitor is polarized. This means it has a vector potential charge and vector potential dishcarge. It has an anode and a cathode.

Once charged it wants to discharge in opposite direction .[Reverse Polar Flow]
Diode allows charging cap to be charged  but does not allow capacitor to discharge.

From the vic circuit point of view  the cap has a constant polar potential [anode and cathode]. This also further impedes charge draining back into the circuit. A positive potential repels a positive potential.
Yes but the current is still allowed to flow in the direction the diode allows through conductive water. The diode only stops the current from returning because it creates an half rectified voltage. Obviously Stan didn't want the cap to be allowed to charge at the frequency of the AC current from the secondary and switch polarity on every cycle because he needs the electric fields between the cap plates at a constant polar state. To me the cap is still allowed to discharge before it reaches its full voltage potential.