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I think Tommy Reed is a con man....

As long as you "think" or "believe" something, I will allow this, but the moment someone "knows", I will expect/demand supporting evidence.

Preferably, I would like to see all members of this forum attempt to stay positive, keep an open mind and make an honest effort to bring forth something we are all looking for.  There are plenty of other forums where stating your mind is accepted, regardless of how unproductive or possibly offensive it is.  We really don't need to do that here.  It serves no purpose other than to get people riled up, which only brings more of the same.

Capeesh?

Capeesh...

To be sensere the tought has crossed my mind...

cant entirely dismis it..

but ... to be fair to my self i must see both sides...




this is what i focus. on...

If he was a con... then probably one of the most amazing con artist ever.
the extreme efforts put forward were just amazing.

think about it ... a comunity dedicated to replicating his works... and only just now after many years its starting to come toghether... and yet
not one complete reproduciton..

there are some things we cant dismis...

some of his tech has been achieved to perfection...
#1  example:    his anti-spark back tube.! and disc...!
 
works! :clap:

]#2 example:  current limiting demostration via his electronics... (used to convince patent office of viabilty)

works :clap:

#3 example: early model of dune buggy running.

works! :clap:


here are some things i havent seen demonstrated yet...

#1 His claim that  voltage increasing in cell beyond secondary application. :thinking:

#2  Electron extraction circuit.. :thinking:

]#3 WFC Injector   in action... :thinking:

#4 EPG--- Electrical particle generator. :nuke:


I could go on... but would it mean he was a fraud just becouse i havent been able to reproduce these?

As far as focusing on stans claim that he was offered a billiion dollars...
can we prove or disprove this claim?
does it matter?

I know many bussines people that offer a good service yet exagerate and lie for the contract!

I dont use  up  my time on this ... rather if i can "test" a claim this is what i focus on..

To me so far there are claims that Stan Meyer maid that are reproducible...
There are also other claims that havent been confirmed..

It would not be fair for me to judge him based on the evidence i have to date.

althogh im optimistic that eventualy we will crack this mistery... i am also aware that
the evidenc may one day pile up and persuade me in thinking differently.. in which case would lead me to think
he was one of the most amazing con man ... or most ahead of his time scientist. :thinking:

Exactly, I think and I believe are the proper ways to express ones self, that is the freedom of speech , For everyone is entitled to their opinion whether wrong or right......Yes ?



.

That was the "big idea" written in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and it works just fine for me.  The reality is slightly different--we all have to pay for what we say.  This is why it is important to think before you speak.  If you were the last person alive on planet earth, I suppose you could say anything you want, or nothing at all.  It wouldn't matter.  The rules change quite a bit when someone is listening and even more so when anyone can listen at any time, such is the case with this forum.  So when you click that "Post" button, understand there are others responsible for giving you that freedom; they get hurt, a part of your freedom comes under jeopardy.  There is no such thing as "I' or "you" being completely disconnected from "we".  Also, Newton's Law applies.  Your action will have a re-action.  Maybe not immediately, but eventually someone will read what you wrote and respond in some way.  It makes good sense to consider the possible ramifications before you click.

the problem with seeing stan as a fraud, is that the more you learn about his devices, the more you realise how much effort had gone into developing the technology, if you were going to defraud people for money, theres no way you would develop all those devices.
I think one mistake stan made was not providing detailed papers on the efficiencies of the water splitting devices. But if your in the middle of an explosion of ideas and trying to make them a reality, time consuming experiments on efficiency wouldn't be a priority.
What is interesting is the complete lack of replications of his work by academia or larger companies.

Why is that then you think?

First I would ask the question whether there really were replications or not.  A lot of research gets done behind closed doors.  Companies by definition do not have to disclose their research and much of academia is funded by private grants, that also have stipulations concerning disclosure of information.  To be perfectly clear, just because we haven't heard about something, doesn't it mean it didn't happen.

Well that ^^^^ was more or less what my question was aimed at.
The very interesting aspect is of course the silence, is it because of patent pendings or moral judgements saying that economies etc would suffer as a consequence of this or is it perhaps even because the powers that be simply doesn't want any of it to ever see the light of the day.
Which is why for example open source would for sure be opening pandoras boxes on all fronts and ends once Meyer's tech would become part of public domain.

i discovered another way to skin this cat..

by use of super capacitive charging with two mosfet and caps connected to a third tube or plate.

the object is to reuse the power of electrolysis in the cap then drive the cell, by switching from pos to neg at the cap to allow for charging. its a dc pulse a 30 or 40 percent duty cycle at 1 to 2 kh..? 

i read a small portion of a patent related to the specific driver, and super cap charging by ordinary means..

this is it..

Patents
Publication number   CA2810042 A1
Publication type   Application
Application number   CA 2810042
Publication date   Sep 14, 2014
Filing date   Mar 14, 2013
Priority date   Mar 14, 2013
Inventors   Michael J. Nunnerley
Applicant   7102992 Canada Corporation, Michael J. Nunnerley
Export Citation   BiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
Classifications (11)
External Links: CIPO, Espacenet
Highly efficient system of electrolysis called smd electrolysis, "switchmode drive electrolysis" using charge-transfer complex in a special way
CA 2810042 A1
Abstract
Disclosed is a highly efficient method of electrolysis which can be used for the splitting of the water molecule for the creation of hydrogen and oxygen, or any other liquid electrolyte which can be electrolysed, such as sodium acetate, but not limited to sodium acetate, into other gases.
The name of SMD electrolysis has been given to this type of electrolysis which has a unique charge-transfer complex (CT complex) at one electrode.
Claims(17)
1. A method of electrolysis with a high electrical efficiency.
2. A method of claim 1, where an alternating direct current is applied to electrodes (C) inside an electrolytic cell (G).
3. A method of claim 1, where various electrolytes can be used.
4. A method of claim 3, where the electrolyte can be made up of, but not limited to, sodium hydroxide in distilled water.
5. A method of claim 2, where two other electrodes (A) and (B) are placed inside electrolytic cell (G).
6. A method of claim 5, where the electrodes (A), (B) and (C) are arranged as in Fig:2, forming three electrode sets.

6.
7. A method of claim 6, where these electrode sets are arranged in cell (G) as in Fig:3.
8. A method of claim 7, where these electrode sets are connected as in Fig:1 to the electronic control system (H).
9. A method of claim 2, where electrodes (C) are connected to super capacitors (K).
10.A method of claim 9, where the super capacitors (K) are charged.
11. A method of claim 10, where the super capacitors (K) supply power to part of the system.
12.A method of claim 11, where super capacitors (K) supply more power to the system than the main supply (M).
13.A method of claim 3, where the electrolyte fills cell (G) and covers completely the electrode sets.
14.A method of claim 1, where part of the electrical energy goes back to the main supply (M).
15.A method of claim 14 where this electrical energy comes from a complicated electron-doner-acceptor complex at electrodes (C) in relation to electrodes (A), (B) and the conducting cell wall (G).
16.A method of claim 8 where each electrode set has it's own control (H), mosfet pairs (J) and super capacitor (K).
17.A method of claim 16 where the main supply (M) is common to all tube sets inside cell (G).
Description  (OCR text may contain errors)

Canada & World Patent Application Nunnerley, Michael John HIGHLY EFFICIENT SYSTEM OF ELECTROLYSIS CALLED SMD ELECTROLYSIS, "SWITCH MODE DRIVE ELECTROLYSIS" USING CHARGE-TRANSFER
COMPLEX IN A SPECIAL WAY.
Inventor: Michael John Nunnerley Appl. No.:
Filed:
ABSTRACT
Disclosed is a highly efficient method of electrolysis which can be used for the splitting of the water molecule for the creation of hydrogen and oxygen, or any other liquid electrolyte which can be electrolysed, such as sodium acetate, but not limited to sodium acetate, into other gases.
The name of SMD electrolysis has been given to this type of electrolysis which has a unique charge-transfer complex (CT complex) at one electrode.
FIELD OF THE INVENTION
loom] This disclosure relates to a type of electrolysis which is considerably more efficient than normal Faraday direct current electrolysis, where the amount of electrical energy added is equal to the Gibbs free energy of the reaction.
BACKGROUND

[0002] Electrolysis using a direct current to positive and negative electrodes immersed in an electrolyte has been around and used since the day when Michael Faraday invented the system of electrolysing water, breaking the molecular bond, and so creating hydrogen and oxygen. This brute force system of electrolysing is not very energy efficient, and is why for the production of hydrogen it is not used to a great extent, and is preferred the reforming of hydrocarbons, which gives more gas for the energy consumed.

[0003] By disclosing here this energy efficient system of SMD electrolysis, hydrogen from water becomes a more interesting prospect for hydrogen production, but also for other electrolysis uses.
SUMMARY

[0004] In accordance with the purpose(s) of the invention, as embodied and broadly described herein, the invention, in one aspect relates to a system of electrolysis.

[0005] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides the means of collecting electrons from a charge-transfer complex at one electrode of the system.

[0006] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for storage of electron charge.

[0007] In another aspect, the present invention provides for reuse of stored electron charge.

[0008] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for more than one set of collection electrodes.

[0009] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for different types of electrode design.

[0010] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for different types of electrode symmetry.

[0011] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for different electrolytes.

[0012] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for an external system of control.

[0013] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for an excited electronic state or resonance in the cell.

[0014] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for a plating of an electrode.

[0015] In another aspect, the present disclosure provides for an external circuit of control of the system.

[0016] Yet another aspect, the present disclosure provides a method of electrolysis with a considerably reduced energy consumption.

[0017] While aspects of the disclosed invention can be described and claimed in a particular statutory class, such as the system statutory class, this is for convenience only and one of skill in the art will understand that each aspect of the disclosed invention can be described and claimed in any statutory class.

[0018] Unless by otherwise expressly stated, it is in no way intended that any method or aspect placed herein be construed as requiring that it's steps be performed in a specific order.
Accordingly, where a method claim does not specifically state in the claims or descriptions that the steps are to be limited to a specific order, it is in no way intended that an order be inferred, in any respect. This holds for any possible non-express basis for interpretation, including matters of logic with respect to arrangement of steps or operational flow, plain meaning derived from grammatical organization or punctuation, or number or type of aspects described in the specification.
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE FIGURES

[0019] The accompanying figures, incorporated in and constitute part of this specification, illustrates several aspects, and together with the description serve to explain the principles of the invention.

[0020] Fig. 1 Schematic illustration of two electrode sets of the SMD
electrolysis system.

[0021] Fig. 2 Example of a tubular electrode set.

[0022] Fig. 3 Example of a six tubular electrode set configuration.

[0023] Additional advantages of the invention will be partly set out in the detailed description which follows, and in part will be obvious from the description, or can be learned by use of the invention. The advantages of the invention will be realized and gained by means of the elements and combinations particularly pointed out in the appended claims. It is to be understood that both the foregoing general description and the following detailed description are exemplary and explanatory only and are not restrictive of the invention, as claimed.
DETAILED DESCRIPTION

[0024] Here in is given a detailed description, to be read with reference to the accompanying figures 1, 2, 3, but must be understood that the present compounds, reagents, compositions, articles, systems, devices and or methods are not limited to specific methods unless specified otherwise, as they may be in due course, varied without taking away the true intention of the invention. Also it should be understood that the terminology used is for the purpose of describing particular aspects only and is not deemed to be limiting.

[0025] In Fig:1 of the present disclosure of SMD electrolysis, there is utilized a special alternating dc current which alternates between the main supply (M) 24vdc, but not limited to this voltage, and super capacitors (K), with a low ESR and a minimum voltage rating of 24v, 10amps@ 1 Farad or more. Collected electrons from electrode (C), generated by a special electron doner-acceptor complex, are stored in super capacitors (K), for reuse in the system.

[0026] In Fig:1 items (H) are half bridge controllers, which along with N type mosfets (J) and their internal diodes (L), form the switching circuit to alternate from the main supply (M) and the collected supply (K). The half bridge controllers (H) have variable frequency, duty cycle and dead time between switching mosfet pairs, those of the art will know how to build such a controller and as so is not covered within this present disclosure, apart from the ranges which are required ( frequency 1-20hz, duty cycle 30-50% and dead time between mosfets switching on and off 50msec-500msec). Each electrode set consisting of (A), (B), (C), have their own controller (H), mosfet (J) "pair" and super capacitor (K). Main supply (M) is common to all electrode sets from one set to six sets, but not limited to six if voltages are increased at the main supply (M) and the super capacitor (K) voltage rating.

[0027] Fig:2 shows the construction of one three electrode set as is disclosed here in, but not limited to three electrodes, as those in the art will know that more electrodes can be added, and that the electrodes can be configured as plate electrodes as opposed to tubular electrodes. Outer electrode (C) is connected to the positive terminal of super capacitor (K).
Mosfet (J) high side drain is connected to electrode (B) and electrode (A) is connected to the positive of the main supply (M). The internal distance of the electrodes from one another should be a minimum of one centimetre to allow sufficient room for gas escape. Apertures (F) are for entry of electrolyte and exits (E) are for gas exit and should be sized accordingly. End caps (D) should be made of a none conducting material and are used to a line and maintain the electrodes, those of the art will also know that sealing the ends of the electrodes will stop electric current from passing at those points.

[0028] Fig:3 shows in this disclosure, a typical six electrodes sets arrangement inside a conducting container (G). Electrode diameter and height can be from 10 centimetres to 50 centimetres, but not limited to these measurements. Cell container (G) should be larger than the electrode sets and those of the art will know how to construct a cell container. Those of the art will also know how to enter the electrolyte and exit the gases from the cell container (G).

[0029] Electrodes (A), (B) and (C) in this disclosure are made of 316 grade stainless steel, but not limited to using stainless steel, and the cell enclosure (G) of any conducting material which will not react with the electrolyte used, in this disclosure 304 or 316 stainless steel can be used but must be insulated from direct contact with the tube sets. Even though cell container (G) has no direct electrical connection, it is important that it is conductive for the overall efficiency of the system.

[0030] A typical electrolyte used in this system is sodium hydroxide in distilled water, but those of the art may want to use others and does not change this disclosure of the invention.
System operation [0031] When the system is switched on the low side mosfets switch on, electrodes (A) and electrodes (C) "now negative", as well as super capacitors (K), are in circuit, electrode (B) is a neutral path. When controllers (H) switch off the low side mosfets and switch on the high side mosfets, electrodes (C) "now positive", and (B) are in circuit with super capacitors (K), electrode (A) is permanently connected to main supply positive.

[0032] With the system running the frequency of change over of each cycle can be set along with the duty cycle and down time between each half cycle. A typical frequency is between 1-2hz and a typical duty cycle is between 30-40% on time of main supply (M), so making the super capacitors (K) do more work than the main supply. A current sensing resistor and suitable oscilloscope can be placed between electrode (C) and the super capacitor (K) positive terminal, the frequency and duty can be adjusted to maintain the maximum voltage charge in the super capacitors (K). A large voltage and current spike will be seen on the oscilloscope which has a path back to the main supply (M) via the internal diode of the low side mosfets and the electrodes (A), the cell container plays a role of accumulating current path.
These current spikes supply charge to the main supply (M).

[0033] Those of the art will see on the oscilloscope that less energy goes into the super capacitors than is being used in the circuit when the main current supply (M) is not being used, but the super capacitors maintain their charge. This is due to the complicated electron-doner-acceptor-complex taking place at electrode (C),where current is now being chemically generated and is in series with super capacitors (K).

since stans system already uses the water as a capacitor, perhaps increasing the capacitance of the system would have similar outcomes, perhaps graphite/carbon fibre or some other material could be used on one electrode.Carbon fibre ( tow ) before adding epoxy is quite cheap, and has huge surface area, also conductive, i think a suitable candidate.
regarding lack of research of stans system: I think its extremely likely the system has been studied and results not published, nasa would have to be one candidate, considering their interest in h and o for fuel.
Lets say hypothetically, I had a car running using stans injector system, lets say I take it to the CSIRO in australia ( major research organisation), they would certainly be impressed, but I doubt very much they would be capable of turning it into a commercial product in a short time frame.
On the other hand, lets say I take it too a chinese electric car ( or similar manufacturer), you would have much more chance of it being produced extremely rapidly, but you would loose any financial gain in the technology transfer. Chinese are quite interested in patent rights these days,that would also be an issue, as the patents are already expired. Whichever pathway is taken, it would be an extremely difficult undertaking.
But each contribution by the backyard experimenters is still very valuable info.

no its not the same thing. if he claimed a capacitor he had used it for sure. the water cant hold charge like a cap. it leaks off.

the solution was to take the excess charge from the water, and store it in the cap, and then use the cap to lower your electric usage from the main..
 the 3rd conductor is needed. why? it act as a conductor that draws charge to itself. the cap will charge as a result. you already used that energy, but have the chance to reclaim some of it and dump it back into the cell.

What "cap" are you talking about?  Please show us a picture of this.

I never saw any capacitor or third conductor in Stan's patents.

its been a wile since i seen the patent, ma by u can locate it. i found this.


variable inductor connected to a resonant coil.

so isn't this a transformer? if there is two coils with different amount of  turns?  this is what acts as a capacitor. but there must be something else that is overlooked.

fuel cell water capacitor..........its labelled on diagram.
This was the technique stan used to split water, the water itself acts as a capacitor, as mentioned above it looses its charge very quickly, but that is how the water is split.
You charge the water up just same as you charge up a capacitor ( stan used a step charge method), its charges up in time frame of microseconds, when it self discharges ( i.e. the water discharges during off time of the signal pulse), that is when the hho is produced.
My research makes me think at this time, that its only a very thin layer where the water contacts the electrodes that is where the capacitance is held ( not throughout the bulk of the water).
Its called a double layer, a very thin layer only on the nanometre scale ( atomic scale) where aligned water molecules in strong electric field ( pulse on time) give capacitance.
When the signal is turned off, because its on a very small time scale the current can be very large,it may be that very large current over very small time scale that splits the water ( when the water is self discharging, same as discharging a normal capacitor...)
Pulsing of the water by a dc signal in an on/off manner, which is low amp but high voltage, is what all the electronics are doing. One transformer creates the high voltage, two coils restrict the amps and setup a resonant ( back/forth) signal on each side of the water cell, increasing efficiency of the circuit.
Thats my understanding of the basics of how it works.

I can't disagree with you brettly, but I will say this:

I think Stan (or his brother Stephen) figured out something Tesla knew.  The real capacitance is in the coil network, hidden between the interwindings.  The WFC is probably/mostly just a resistor.  The combination of resistance R and capacitance C, creates an RC pulse forming network as Ronnie has attempted to describe in his thread.  Understanding the source of the charge is still a mystery to me, but obviously it's there and it does do real work when properly configured and tuned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIiRrl6l6E#ws

here is another.. as u see the coil is flat. a cap would work well inline with this coil to smooth out pulses.?

as u see that coil is acting as a cap?

In the GEGENE the flat bifilar coil is electromagnetically coupled with the main flat coil of the induction cooker and acts as the secundary coil for the output. The driving and the controlling are fully done by the main electronic controller of the induction cooker itself. So, no special electronic equipment or laboratory measurement tools are required here to succeed in this experiment. You need only : an induction cooker, a dual flexible wire (speaker wire or grid wire) and some electrical connectors and plugs. At the GEGENE ouput you must connect resistive and non inductive loads such as halogen lamps... The total load power at the output must be at least 1500 W or more.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/gegene/indexen.htm

Totally true.

. At the GEGENE ouput you must connect resistive and non inductive loads such as halogen lamps... The total load power at the output must be at least 1500 W or more.



this lamp is important. maby it was never seen in the stan myer patents, but its there,ill bet it there also.. at least a plate needs to be connected to ground.

he isolated Stan one system in the circuit. and there is a reason the third plate might be missing. but to pulse dc a common ground dedicated seems like the way to go..

a rodin coil is supposed to use three wires, and pulse dc correct? as u see the cat has been let out of the bag... O:-)

:)

Then it ran away, never to be seen again.

its a shame u dont have anything to add here Matt. i will design a circuit that putts stand Myers to shame.. how would you like to do this?


what i outlined above are key factors for operating a working cell. screw myers..  since its all about theory i can do it without even testing it..


i make a boost cap setup at up to 36 volts of battery.  i then use the caps as a source of power. from a alternator or from the battery, its even possible to use the earth as a battery..

there are so many ways to get the same results.. i take a second coil, and i submerge it in the water. i energy up to 50 kv for a time period prescribed. 5 sec on off. i run a cell as normal with my other power.

i use pulse dc and add a third common ground. i use a rodin coil for my circuit..

many ways to go, and all you go is there goes the cat?

wow.. considering people working on this over 4 years or more.

Show me Free, then I'll take you seriously.  Right now all I see is a lot of hat and no cattle.

Myself, I'm working on purely electrical solutions.  No time for anything else.  Besides, adding water to the equation just distracts from the real fundamentals.