#### Cycle

##### Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« on January 25th, 2017, 05:54 PM »Last edited by Cycle
Hi, all. I just had an epiphany. I'll try to lay it out as simply as I can.

Ok, so we're trying to split the water molecule, right? And we know that under resonance, things tend to fall apart. But how do we find the resonance of a water molecule?

We use Quantum Mechanics.

In a prior post, I wrote:
Quote
Of course, E=mc2 is incorrect (not so much incorrect as incomplete). It doesn't take into account massless entities. It's only valid for massive objects. In 1905 Einstein derived an equation that works in all situations:
E2=P2c2+m2c4.

He also figured out that light is both a particle and a wave, and that the energy of a photon isn't governed by its mass or its velocity (like matter), but instead is governed entirely by f, its frequency: E=hf, where h is Planck’s constant.

For light, m=0, so E=Pc (energy and momentum are proportional). Notice that massless entities can never have zero momentum, since something with zero mass and zero energy isn't something, it’s nothing. This is just another way of saying that light can never be stationary (ie: light has no "rest frame"). It's also a way of saying that everything (massive or massless) has frequency.

In the case of an object with mass m, that isn’t moving (P=0), you then get E=mc2.
So let's lay out the equations:
E2=P2c2+m2c4
E=mc2
E=hf
E=Pc

We know the mass of each element making up water (hydrogen and oxygen), so we can use:
hf=mc2

h is Planck's constant, 6.626-34 joule-second.

Thus, f = (mc2)/h.

--------------------
EDIT: I just learned that this is called the Compton wavelength (actually, it's inverse, the Compton frequency)... there is also the reduced Compton wavelength (and in this case, the increased Compton frequency). In the case of the wavelength, you'd divide by 2*pi. In the case of frequency, you'd multiply by 2*pi. This gives you the "spin frequency / wavelength" of one radian, whereas the Compton wavelength and Compton frequency give you the "spin frequency / wavelength" of a full 360 degree circle.

Think of the ramifications of this... light, curling in upon itself into a self-perpetuating loop, generates mass. Shrodinger, Einstein, Klein, Gordon, Compton... they all used this reduced Compton wavelength to describe matter in a quantum sense... it's the geometrical transform between light (energy) and matter. This is the underlying reason why we know matter can be converted to energy, and energy can be converted to matter. The light is still moving at c, but it's going nowhere from the perspective of an outsider, thus it's perceived as matter.

E2=P2c2+m2c4

This frequency is the necessary frequency to convert that matter back into energy. We definitely would want to use a lower harmonic. :D
--------------------

This gives us the resonant frequency for hydrogen and oxygen if they were standing alone.

What one must do after that is figure out what the total system resonant frequency would be based upon the total mass of the water molecule using the same equation above, then check to see if there are any harmonics between the resonant frequency of the water molecule and the resonant frequency of either the hydrogen or oxygen.

I'm betting that hitting the water molecule with one of those harmonics would cause it to dissociate.

#### Matt Watts

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« Reply #1, on January 25th, 2017, 09:17 PM »
I have no doubt your arrow is on target.  Keep in mind though, we have a two-part problem here to solve.

1.  We must disassociate the water molecule.
2.  We must maintain the conditions necessary to keep the Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms from wanting to recombine.

The other useful piece of information is that we already know about electrolysis.  I say "know about" because to this day, I'm still not 100 percent certain how this process works.  It does what we want, but it's vastly inefficient for our purposes.  Inefficiency doesn't mean it's wrong though, it just means it takes a heck of a lot more energy than we are willing to spend.

I've mentioned this before and find it to be a useful means to think about electricity.  What I mean is a DC current source seems to have two frequencies:  One extraordinarily high that we cannot measure.  And another extraordinarily low that we also cannot measure.  It's almost like this current source sits between two completely different dimensions.  It's both high and low, but nothing in the middle.

If we think about using this DC source to split water, I suspect its inefficiencies come from the fact its frequency is incorrect, a poor match to what we really need.  Call it an impedance mismatch.  Like you mentioned Cycle, there is a target frequency where efficiency goes way up.  Let's not forget though, the mechanism is still probably the same either way.  The way with the proper frequency just works much better.

So best I can tell, this frequency you speak of is probably quite high, in the gigahertz range.  Seems odd we would build a system that runs in the audio frequency range, but alas there is a method to this madness.  It involves phase differential.  This is how we create a high frequency that is also polarized.  We oscillate two coils at ever so slightly different frequencies.  The coils lengths may differ by only a few centimeters.  We synchronize the starting point of the wave and at the tail-end of the coil, we have this slight phase misalignment (one coil is physically shorter, has less wire than the other) that creates the polarized impulse at the proper frequency necessary to split the water molecule.  These "tuned" impulses then do their magic on the water.  That's my theory of operation at this point and I think it fits in with what you are saying quite nicely.

#### brettly

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« Reply #2, on January 27th, 2017, 03:34 AM »Last edited on January 28th, 2017, 05:25 AM
there are soooooo many different frequencies that have been found for hydrogen and oxygen its not funny, but the frequencies relate to how an atom absorbs photons and emits photons.
Theres not just one frequency. The formulas cycle has given relate directly to absorption and emission of photons ( by electrons).
I also was of the view that the frequencies would be in the gigahertz and too high for stans sytems. I was just searching for a link to all the listed frequencies for hydrogen and oxygen ( which is a large number) and came across this link:
http://astronomynow.com/news/n1004/26seti5/

Dont get put off since the link is from the SETI website, whats interesting is the radio wavelengths that absorbed/emitted by hydrogen and hydroxyl:
1,420Mhz for neutral hydrogen and hydroxyl is 1,666Mhz............not Ghz ( unless there is some error in the information...whoops my bad.....thats 1.42ghz....).
These frequencies equate to wavelengths of 21cm and 18cm???
What was the height of stans tubes?  Perhaps these are the frequencies he was interested in.
They say in the article the 21cm wavelength is famous in astronomy. As its a good candidate for communicating over astronomical distances, being in a fairly quiet band of the radio spectrum.
Anyhow this is something I will investigate a bit further and see if these frequencies/wavelengths might be linked to stans devices.

#### thx1138v2

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« Reply #3, on January 27th, 2017, 07:10 AM »Last edited on January 29th, 2017, 05:34 PM
Although John Keely is sometimes viewed as a fraud and sometimes a genius there seems to be validity to his work. But to understand it we must understand Kelly's background as it relates to sound (he tuned organs) and the tools of his day.

A fellow named Hans von Lieven has taken the time to research not only Keely's work but his background and how Keely came to the conclusions he espoused. It is a very interesting read.

Keely did "disassociate" water and he did it with sound and resonance. The first three links are to von Lieven's pages on disassociation of water to get you interested and the following link is to the beginning of von Lieven's work if you are interested in the entire story.

Dissociation of Water
Aquaeous Disintegration
Water, its Structure and its Isotopologues - Frequencies

Water actually has six vibratory movements. They are shown at the last link above. So it will be a bit more complicated than just the frequencies of hydrogen and oxygen.

The following is the link to the beginning of von Lieven's work.
HANS VON LIEVEN

One of the things I found amazing about Keely's work is that his model of molecular structure that was developed with sound in the 1800's closely resembles today's physics models of molecules, atoms, electrons and nuclei, and even down to quarks.
Keely's Model of Molecular Structure
I have put together a document showing the parallels between Keely's theories and today's models of matter if you are interested.

Edit: Keely's theories of the structure of matter were developed before the discovery and confirmation of the electron. At that time the atom was considered to be the minima of matter. The scientists of the thought that noting smaller than the atom could possibly exist.

#### basil_brush

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« Reply #4, on March 25th, 2017, 01:49 PM »
Meyer seems to have been working in the audio frequency range and presumably so was Keely if his equipment was derived from organs and acoustic apparatus. Puharich also used audio frequencies in his precursor to the Meyer cell. Definitely a pattern here.

How audio frequencies would affect high speed atomic movements and bonds is a mystery to me but then water does some incredible things. Water seems to be extremely responsive to electromagnetic energies and will coerce other molecules to do things. For example you can program water with a particular energy signature using an electromagnetic coil, add nucleotides and DNA polymerase to the water and the enzyme will starting building DNA strands according to the programmed signature. I think we've barely scratched the surface of what water can do.

Also interesting are historical anecdotes about healing people with sound frequencies or being able to levitate big stone blocks. So audio frequencies may seem 'primitive' and too low to be of much interest but I think there's a lot that can be done with them, if only we could understand the how and why.

#### Matt Watts

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« Reply #5, on March 25th, 2017, 03:58 PM »
Think of audio as a longitudinal pressure wave.  Then consider the more primitive fields forming the same kind of waves:

Dielectric -- Tesla
Tempic -- W.B. Smith
Magnetic -- possibly John Hutchinson.

Add in harmonics and overtones with standing wave nodes.  Somewhere in the mix is a combination where water responds in a way we might not have expected.  After all, matter itself is formed and held together by fields of force.

#### mercury101

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
« Reply #6, on March 25th, 2017, 08:58 PM »
Yes true

#### Ragnor

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
So has anyone else used a sonicator bath and noticed that bubbles occasionally form in the water and are held near motionless at high vibrational frequencies until the bath is turned off? Ive been quite curious since I first saw it. What gas has been disassociated from the water? It has occurred to me to attempt electrolysis in the bath as it operates, but have not yet done it.

#### chuff1

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
The answer to that question ragnor is trapped atmospheric gasses. When you agitate water like an aquarium bubbler you add gas between the water molecules. Another way to extract the air is by pulling a vacuum on water which makes it boil at room temperature.

#### Ragnor

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
I had wondered about that chuff1. Cavitaion/atmospheric air. I know that the first stage in a good water purification system can be a strong vacuum to purge off certain other gasses as well.Sulfur Hydroxide is a primary undesirable gas as I recall. Though it is not a problem in my particular valley it is in some nearby areas.

#### chuff1

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
I have pondered using a sonic bath as a tank for electrolysis and researched
the idea.  Thislink lists a patent I stumbled upon.  There is another
way as well and deducing what Stanley had in mind with a "Resonant Cavity",
a quick search came up with a patent using micro-wave energized water in a
resonant cavity to help electrolysis.

#### reverandkilljoy

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
you can download any book on laser physics and it will show u how to calculate the frequency of molecular vibratory states

#### Ragnor

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
Some years ago I determined it was this simple. All you need is 2 parallel capacitor plates. Then you need a circuit that ramps up the voltage between the plates. You have a sensor circuit that 'watches' the voltage. You ramp up the voltage until the sensor detects a breakdown in resistance. At the moment a breakdown is detected the circuit resets to a lower voltage and resumes ramping again. This will set up an oscillation which will self attenuate to the resonant frequency of the water between the plates. That was my answer to the Joe cell. I asked for help to build the circuit on electronics forums, but people claimed I was trying to build some illegal transmitter and refused to help me. This was some years ago. I still have a pretty darned nice joecell/parallel plate capacitor array around here somewhere, but I never did get that control circuit built.

#### Gunther Rattay

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
job for a microcontroller.
do you want to use straight DC to ramp up or a DC or AC oscillation?

#### namirha

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
In terms of dissociating an atom or molecule the two polar forces (Harmonic and Enharmonic) are held in a dynamic balance. The Harmonic (centripetal) force is counterbalanced by the Enharmonic (centrifugal) force. Keely used the Dominant to disturb this equilibrium one direction or the other. Add in an abundance of Enharmonic and the atom or molecule comes apart because the centrifugal force will at that point over ride the mutual attraction of the Harmonic current. The 3, 6 and 9 refer to these quantities of applied energies relative or proportionate to each other (IMHO).

Look to Nature. The sun evaporates (dissociates) water molecules in the ocean. What is it about sun rays that breaks the water molecule so effortlessly? UV rays perhaps. Keely says magnetism and Light are intimately connected on the same plane but at different angles. He says they are basically the same energy manifesting differently. So in a sense magnetism-like energy is involved.] Dale Pond, 03/10/13

http://www.svpwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=14.35.1%20-%20Keely%203%206%20and%209

#### thx1138v2

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
This sounds like it is related. Maybe it will trip a switch for someone.
Electronic entropy enhances water splitting

#### reverandkilljoy

##### Re: Finding the frequency of a water molecule
dale pond is so full of Poo its not even funny

where is his water splitter? oh right its all fake bullPoo like joe cell / bob boyce

"circulating triplen harmonics" lmfao

he should team up with bob boyce

no Poo magnetism and light are related
like is an em wave.... really ... why bother witbthis ancient low tech stuff

also entropy is an artifice .... its not real .... created observing a carnot engine in late 1800s ....

if the datum of ur research is an artifice... ur running ariund a fake maze all day