High side switched,
file "high 31nf"
31nF 98.95 kC 0.35Adc 51.4Vdc 580Vpp 7.5App  -1200Vimp 836nS

Low side switched,
file "low 31nf"
31nf   98.95kC   0.34Adc   51.6Vdc   580Vpp   8.6App(+1.1!)   1200Vimp   830nS   

High side switched,
file "high 61nF"
61nF   72.35kc   0.24Adc   37.6Vdc 300Vpp 5.9App -1200V 862nS

Low side switched,
file "low 61nF"
61nf   72.35kC   0.24Adc   37.6Vdc   300Vdc   7.8A(+1.9!) 1210V 852nS

Notice, how every thing is the same, except the amps! LOW side switched, gives positive voltage impulses, and amplifies current MORE. is this a measurement error, due to the changed position of the current probe, and slight detuning?

both high and low, increase in amps and voltage when frequency goes up (capacity is reduced) as expected. no differences here.

previous test shows, amp sine wave is distorted at the time of the impulse. this is not a measurement mistake. the impulse is a high current event.
When tuning, the amp sine  can reach even much higher values. but the impulse is then split into 2 impulses, one on each voltage maximum.

prolonging the impulse partly fixes this, the current sine than reaches even higher. But, the power supply draw is also increased.

next comparison tests, should be done with L3 coil present. and see again, is there a difference between high or lo side switching

if the positive voltage impulse of the low side switch, really amplifies the magnetic current of the series resonant coil,

do we need it?

We want dielectric induction.
but is there a use for the stronger magnetic field?

I don't know.
I once said we need both magnetic and dielectric induction.

so it would make sense. to have L3 couple to a strong magnetic field of L2.

I feel I know enough now. Positive and negative are not different, except for rotational diarection of the aether flow.

we have 3 fields, magnetic dielectric and magneto dielectric. all 3 fields have polarity.
Magneto dielectric field is the missing link.

I will proceed with the easier lowside switch.
As DC is not vital anymore, I will not use it.
Instead I aim for the L2 coil to produce large resonant voltages (and currents).
Perfect would be, If the positive impulse (from low side switching) could be tuned to the negative voltage maximum, and that both would be equal in size.
this would fully cancel out the resonant voltage, at the time of the impulse. leaving a void to be filled.

But for now the idea is:
L2 series resonant (low impedance)with high voltage and high current, so the aether is polarized at the time of the impulse. This will give it a high frequency.
Then loose couple L3 to L2. (l1 and L2 close coupled).
L3 is parallel resonant Having high impedance. L3 will have a relative large capacity over it, this will tune the resonant frequency of the system down.
L3 high impedance will load down L2 series resonance, and will split it into 2 resonant frequencies. The highest will be used.
L2 low impedance, coupled to L3 high impedance, will give a voltage transfer (bridge coupling) not power transfer.
Ideal distance should be choosen. Best would be to use a high K dielectric inbetween L2 and L3 (sunflower oil)

then the extra coil L4. L3 is magneto dielectric parallel resonant.
L4 outside rim is connected in series with inside rim (resonant) L3. outside rim L3 is grounded (earth).
L4 is also made parallel resonant, but with the smallest amount of capacity possible.
L4 is supposed to step up the L3 current and voltage.
L4 is smaller, than L3, by using thick wire. in my case, L3= 2,5mm2 L4=4mm2
L3 l2 L1 could be 1,5mm2 and L4 4mm2
L1 and L4 could be single wire coils. but L2 and L3 should be bifilar.  I will start with all coils bifilar.

So, 4 coils, stacked. close coupled outsides, loose coupled in the middle.
L4 resonant middle rim, is recitfied to DC, into caps, and grounded, to be loaded with resistive load.

L4 should ideally have low impedance, for best power tranfer into load.
This would make L3 L4 hgih to low impedance, L3 is loaded by L4. which seems ok.

Let's build this, end test it

If I look at those scope shots of L2 current(green) and voltage(orange)
then I think, that current spike, during the impulse, should be fully absorbed into the current sine, so It will grow maximum size.
This means prolonging the impulse duration which lowers its voltage, in turn it will demand for more power from the supply.
which in turn gives more resonant energy.
In the end it doesn't matter if I put in 60 watt or 40W, as long as I get out more, its all good.

on the other hand, I want a fast impulse.
I don't want to put my peddle in the water slowly, which will make it ripple

I want to hit the water hard and fast, so I cause a longitudinal wave.
But the faster I am, the more voltage I need to cause a serious longitudinal wave.

Making L3 parallel resonant with large capacity, keeps the voltage very low. I need them higher so I tried several values.
4nF gives a lot of voltage, but again frequency is raised. this works, but asks for a lot more power.

this test is done with L2 61nF series, L3 21nF parallel  and L4 0nF added
screenshot shows :
L2 voltage orange, 330V pp with 1200V impulse 669.6nS
L3 voltage yellow, 380Vpp
L4 voltage blue, 380Vpp
@ 83.85kC
Notice, how the impulse on L2 is much faster. only 669.6nS instead of the usual 860nS. This makes the system use less power.
I think this is due to the high impedance of L3, by being parallel resonant. the impulse is "sucked" into L3 from L2.

Also notice, how L3 and L4 have equal voltage. Before, with my first extra coil test (negative impulse used) the L4 coil had a larger voltage and current then L3 (with same coil setup). This is not happening now. I tried several frequencies, but the result is the same. L3=L4 voltage.
I will repeat test, with high side test, giving negative impulses.

L1-L2= close coupled, L2-L3=15mm L3-L4 = close coupled.
L1=L2 2,5mm2 bififlar
L3= 1,5mm2 bifilar (large coil)
L4=4mm2 bifilar (small coil)

same setup, but with low side switch.
F=83.85(same) L2=61nF L3=21nf (same) L2 L3=15mm
power= 0.4A 2x18.0V=14.4 W (Less)
orange=L2= *FLAT!!! with 1200V impulse, 698nS (little bit slower)
yellow=L3 =399Vpp
blue is 365Vpp

L2 before with pos impulse had a sine of 330V now its dead! how is that possible? I did rotate the tuning board, but should be the same. impulse also still is fast, so impedance is low. why is there no resonant voltage?

visually L3 and L4 are still the same, this time I didn't round off the voltages of L2 and L3, but they are the same. again no amplification of L4

Going to retune, make L2 smaller, so it does have a sine wave for current end voltage. will also make L3 parallel capacitance smaller for more voltage. see if L4 is again amplified.

*EDIT: measured L2 voltage on the wrong side of series cap... L2=330V pp

still high side switch, no DC
F=124.65kC  0.6A 2x26.6V=31,92W
L2= 330Vpp with -1200V impulse 641nS
L3=L4 = 1900Vpp

Still L4 is not amplified, only missing link seems to be DC offset, will insert it again (good that I made the circuit modular!)

:imsorry:
I cant replicate post 3
https://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3570.msg54668#msg54668

I have the same setup, but now it doenst work....

 :fdrum:

Quote from evostars on September 15th, 2020, 04:23 AM

:imsorry:
I cant replicate post 3
https://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3570.msg54668#msg54668

I have the same setup, but now it doenst work....

 :fdrum:

what happened? Did you forget or miss something?

I think (hope) I was not at the exact right frequency. L4 might have been a higher harmonic of L3, so when not tuned properly the higher harmonic didn't ring.

Luckily I wrote down the frequency and power, so I can figure it out. maybe I have more hand writen notes( probably).
I'll get it back again

I got it back, but it seems there is something wrong with my high voltage probe.
I reversed the probes and got the reading again.
L2 was 61nF L3 5nF F=94.26kC
L2 gave a 200V sine, with 1200V impulse, 800nS duration (blue)
L3 was 1,75kV   (orange)
L4 was 2,7 kV (yellow)

this is picture 15.

Then I reversed the probed on L3 and L4, L3 now yellow and L4 orange.
This is picture 16. So... this is an error!

I finally hooked both probes on L4, and then I got a short cut! amps went high. I checked with other probes too, then I checked without any probes. Still short cut

So not only is my probe failing, I think I blew out my mosfet also...
 :-/
strange...
Might be producing power? that would be nice :P

Quote from evostars on September 15th, 2020, 12:30 PM

Might be producing power? that would be nice :P

Why not??? :-)

Check your equipment and check it again.

The measured values are not bad after all.

You learn faster from mistakes or setbacks!

My own setup will be ready in a few days.

Bye Jan

haven't fixed it yet. But mosfet should be good, as I can still turn it on and off.
must be  a shortcut somewhere.
I'll find it.

Going to remove parallel capacity of L3. try to match the resonant frequency of L3 with the impulse (half period).

This will prevent L3 from loading down L2.

Then the extra coil L4 is made parallel resonant (lower harmonic of L3), while series connected to L3.

L4 in a way will become series resonant with L3 (hmm?)

L3 then is loaded down by L4, but L3 does not load down L2.

Tesla did the same, his secondary wasn't parallel tuned.

I removed the DC offset module, which fixed the shortcut. probably one of the diodes has died. doesn't matter, I do not intend to use it.

Made the L2 series resonant and, connected all 3 probes to the same point....
And here is the measurement error, which I had mistaken for amplification.
sines should be overlapping. but are not.
Will open de HV probes, to see if I can calibrate. My scope says it cant adjust, as the voltage is to low 1000:1

lowside switch giving positive impulses, tested with L1-L2 close coupled, and L3 parallel resonnant loose coupled (3,5cm), and loaded with 15W lamp.

L3 was recitfied into DC, for measurement.
15W lamp output  (0.066mA x 231.4Vdv)
input= 0.51A x 2 x 23.1V=23.56W
gives 66% rendement.

conclusion. the radiant power circuit of april 2019 is over complicated. it can be done much easier.
Definitely NO DC ofset is needed.
No negative impulse is needed. So no isolated gate needed! low side switch mosfet with gate driver is only needed. powered by by buck/boost converter 20V

Impulse from L1, might need to be prolonged in duration, as this gives the current more time to build up the magnetic field (that is spacial and relatively slow).

Did several tests with extra coil, no result.

Best probably would be a L3 parallel resonant coil, with no direct load. instead use a close coupled L4 coil (to L3) that is loaded.

another concept is still to create the special kind of series resonance where the DC caps are used for the load, and for feedback.

after testing L3 without parallel capacitor, and seeing the power only rise at the halp period of the impulse,
makes me want to develop a dual polarity impuls. alternating in the series resonant maximums (see drawing of sine)

I tried a half bridge, but diodes gave problems.
So instead, I can use a half bridge to power the L1 coil from the other side (no impulse)
while the impulse side switches the coil off to ground, and produces alternating polarity impulses. While still also makimg L2 series resonant.

switching of fet 1 and 2 happens, when fet 3 is not conducting.

Sine wave with 2 impulses is the goal.
L1 produces impulses L2 the sine (series resonant)

any thoughts any body how to reach this goal?

best solution probably is IGBT half bridge.
using IGBT's without body diode.

I always stayed away from IGBT's because they turn off slower. but current technology moves so fast, It would not supprise me that a IGBT can be found without body diode, that is fast, an can handle several hundred volts, or above 1000V.
current isn't what I worry about.

If anyone has a suggestion for a proper IGBT please let me know.

seems I already found a IGBT.
specs look good, although not as fast as a mosfet, I will need to give it a try.

RGS50TSX2DHRC11 also known as RGS50TSX2HR
1200V 25A 396W Vce 1,7V
turn off delay time: Td(off)=140nS
fall time Tf = 205nS

igbt mouser link

spec sheet

going to order a few, and see how that performs. can use the gate driver circuit I already have... nice.
gate emitter threshold 7V  maximum voltage 30V, so 20V will work fine

in conclusion, after reading parts of the Colorado Spings note's of Tesla;

Tesla made a node on the secondary, at the end of the coil which is normally resonant. this made the earth ground part of the the coil resonant.
To do this, Tesla used the extra coil. this coil was in a mirror function of the secondary. the top load was the high voltage resonant part of the extra coil.
While the series connection of the secondary with the extra coil was the node.
Node means  "not resonant" in other words, it was the "ground" of the secondary and extra coil
this could be seen as a series connected Tesla coil. the middle connection is not resonant, while the 2 top loads are resonant.
One of the top loads, was the earth, which acts as the plate of a capacitor.

This way, Tesla was able to set the earth into resonance. Something, I do not wish to do.

My wish at this time, is a primary, with not only a negative OR positive impulse (which both work), but a primary with a positive AND negative impulse on its series resonant voltage maximums.

I'll again make a new thread for this:
https://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3571