Quote from jbignes5 on October 20th, 2017, 11:04 AM

The simple truth is there is no electron. Think of it as you will. We have never seen one and to believe there is one is a logical fallacy. That was my whole point.
 We need something new. And charge balance fits the bill. Under natural circumstances all matter has bound charges inside of it and an absent of charges around it. This is what led me to the plasma as both structure and charge carriers. Two distinct kinds of plasma or two scales of plasma particles. The structure plasma is in between all matter. With the charge carriers being much smaller and virtual, meaning made up of smaller plasma particles. I say virtual because they add together to form the larger structure and can actually hold charges, even smaller plasma particles, inside of that virtual structure.
 The larger particles have a higher surface area and hold little to no charges as the virtual particles. This makes them the conductor between all matter. The mere shape of the particles are geometric pyramids in both cases. With the larger particles being the guide to the virtual charge carriers. I like to call them the highway and vehicle particles.
 The neutral space we see everywhere is a combination of both particles and can be separated by a higher potential, which sucks away the vehicle particles and forces that particle to become negative in a sense.

 Again onepower you are the one who is believing in a fictitious electron. No one has seen one and no one ever will. If you have then show me the electron that you believe in. I on the other hand can show you plasma and it's ability to condense around a higher potential. At least we can agree on that. You keep saying truth. Well time to put it up then. Show us the electron and how it moves through and outside of a wire? Show us electrons flowing from the negative to the positive. Show us the truth.

no need to show whats what when we are looking at theory ( we cant prove anything only show what we see on the bench)

i think we all agree that there is way more new things to discover and a lot better ways to view them...

I'm all in on your plasma thoughts.I have been doing a lot of thinking and came to the conclusion that where there is plasma. Things get way more energetic then otherwise. ( look at how electrical fires react... and shorts in systems...)

The reason why i look at electron theory is to think through the over view to get some hints as to whats going on.

my problem is that at 2VDC i cant see where any plasma would be. ( if we consider what the " electron cloud" is... that could be thought of as "plasma" i guess)

any hoo, lets keep searching for answers and lets let the bench tell us what is right.

so much more do so yet we have came so far...

~Russ

 

I have heard some generalized explanations Jbigness5 on electron movement:

 one goes like

"The electron replaces the electron in the atom missing the electron nearby"

and the other one goes like

"The electron is in a state of charge density in the atom of a uniform conductor and sub atomic potential hops from atom to atom depending on structure resistance".

What one is closer to the truth?

     

Russ

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I have something i can not figure out in my head....
if we are going from + to + in our cap to cap...
what direction would you say the "electron flow" is ???
full cap + to empty cap + or ... empty cap + to full cap + ???

I see the problem, in a charged cap we have moved X electrons to the (-) plate leaving X less electrons on the (+) plate... equal yet opposite. However on a discharged cap both (-) and( +) plates have an equal number of electrons coupled to the protons which gives the appearance of a neutral field condition. It's like taking black electrons and mixing them with white protons giving us grey or neutral however if we move the black electrons the grey becomes more black and white again.

We could think of the black electrons as ferrofluid mixed with white proton paint and the magnetic field simply moves or separates the ferrofluid from the white paint producing two separate regions having more black and more white.

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if we are going from + to + in our cap to cap...
what direction would you say the "electron flow" is ???

When we complete the circuit the excess electrons in the charged cap (-) plate move to disperse themselves over the uncharged cap (-) plate because like charges repel. Likewise the charged cap (+) plate lacks electrons and it starts pulling them from the uncharged cap (+) plate. The charged cap (-) pushes electrons away as the charged cap (+) plate pulls electrons towards itself.

Russ

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The reason why i look at electron theory is to think through the over view to get some hints as to whats going on.

I would agree and there is much more to things than we may ever know. However one must learn to crawl before we start running away on some wild goose chase. Electron flow notation is a very good way to start to see things from a better more realistic perspective and more so we can test and prove these theories at the bench. It is not perfect, nothing is however it is superior to conventional flow theory in every respect in my opinion.

I have let my views on electrons be known in other posts, so I post here to second the view expressed that the electron flow causes a void (vacuum) when breaking a switch and pulls in free electrons into the closed circuit. As it also does when the magnetic field of a inductor collapses at least in part.
Imho,
But having said that jbigness, I wish to learn and hearing your views allows me to progress in understanding. So please don't defend yourself so much it is not needed. Your voice is as strong as any.

No man has greater knowledge than the sum of all of us.
As Russ said it is your beliefs that create the world you want to see...to see it any other way leaves you wondering in the abyss.