Nelson Rocha's devices


Nelson Rocha's devices
« on June 8th, 2017, 05:38 AM »
In this video, nelson drives a 60W 230Vdc motor with 16Vdc 0,8A and at the same time he charges a battery (2 in series)

I analyzed the video. made some screen shots and looked at the wiring.
could not find decent info on the transformer (but a good screenshot),  but since nelson his other ciruit that he has posted online, I guess this is used as a stepup transformer again. 
The middle white wire is connected to the negative of the DC powersupply. So I guess the white is the neutral.
The rest of the transformer  is wired up weird. I guess it is a 230V in 2x 12V out. not sure.
the black thing seems to be a capacitor (what else?)
The capacitor is on one end connected to the neutral/negative powersupply.
The other side of the black capacitor is wired to red AND blue
the battery rectifier is hookup up to black and brown.

So... If the mosfet gives power pulses (probably high frequency at the resonant frequency of the transformer/cap circuit)
The pulses go into both 12V positives (working together) DC pulses.
The battery is charged of the double 12v negatives?
the 230V output is recitfied and via capacitor into DC motor.

What about the interaction of the exciter (toroid) and the power pulses (mosfets)?

BEMF feedback module test

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #1, on June 9th, 2017, 04:09 AM »
What i suspect is,
 He is using a square wave, amplified with mosfets (giving them power) and using the square wave into a ring toroid. The ring toroid will produce spikes when the voltage jumps from the squarewave signal.  when the voltage is high, the mosfets power a magnetic field in the torroid, then when the voltage goes low, a spike from the bemf jumps from the toroid. into the step up transformer.

it looks like the ring toroid is tuned to the stepup transformer and it also looks as if the ring toroid is in series with the mosfets

He then uses both signals. he pulses the step up tranformer, and he uses the back emf voltage spikefrom the toroid. at the same time.

This all is tuned to the resonant freqeuncy of the step up tranformer. the resonant voltage rise is rectified and used for charging the battery and the stpped up highside is used for the DC motor.

He uses 4 mosfets.  2 (up and down of the voltage) for the toroid, and 2 for the stepuptransformer.
The positive is plit into 2 leads, to the two radiators.

Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #2, on June 11th, 2017, 02:05 PM »
i build the circuit (below) that nelson rocha posted a few years back

the transformer 5v to 230v is pulsed on the 5v side
and creates a high voltage sine on the 230v side.

when i used 4.35V and 0.35A dc the high side gives a shock. not that bad but its not a nice feeling.

thats a bit strange isn't it. amperage should be low. why can i feel this?

also I noticed at a certain setting the sine wave is looking differnt, its as if a pulse gets shot through to much higher voltages.

its not stable yet, tomorrow Ill try to make some photos and post them.

I also half rectified the high side with 2 uf4007 diodes and connected a capacitor.  the dc voltage went above 500V.

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #3, on June 11th, 2017, 05:01 PM »
seems the pulse from the joulethief ringtoroid, pulses the transformer primary.

the secondary stepped up side is outputting a sinewave.

pulse in; sinewave out.
hmm where have i seen that before?

is this circuit (when proberly tuned) putting the secondary into its resonant  frequency? sure looks like it.

I charged the caps to 500V with 1 transformer lead ... into 2 diodes...
the other tranformer lead is grounded.
this indicates a transverse standing wave situation
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #4, on June 12th, 2017, 06:03 AM »Last edited on June 12th, 2017, 06:07 AM
ok here are the pictures.
normal sine but that's actually a halfwave rectified by one uf4007

than just before collapsing (it needs to be fine tweaked with the voltage supply)
the halfwave is broken . it looks like the start of a high voltage pulse.
but then my power supply cant handle it any more.

I suspect if i was to push the voltage up, there would form a high voltage spike.

peak to peak is 60v on the anomaly.
the half wave  sine is 10V

the signal (sine) before the diodes is much higher. peak to peak around 1000V (off scale)

all is without load.

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #5, on June 12th, 2017, 06:49 AM »
I wonder why my power supply stops. if i go higher.
I see no reason for it. maybe there is a fail safe thats triggerd. the voltage stays but the amparage is zero (in a strange unhealthy popping way).

maybe a battery would be better. but i dont have a reostat.
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #6, on June 12th, 2017, 01:57 PM »
what happens to the back emf of the toroid?
there is a pulse when the base is conducting to the emitter, and the colllector flows to the emitter.

but then it stops.
but where does the bemf go?

is that captured by the 4700pf capacitor, and is that capacitor exchanging energy with the transformer, like a resonant circuit?

because i can see a ripple on the primary of the tranformer. its a pulse with a dying ripple after it

could we use this in another way, make it stronger?
take a square wave, pulse the base and feed it with dc power.

than feed that powered square wave into a ring toroid,
that ring toroid should also be turned on and of by the square wave signal.
than the back emf should interact with a capacitor, and another stepup transformer.

the square wave should be in tune with the secondary of the tranformer.

the ring toroid should not be tuned to the square wave. (only supply a back emf to the capacitor.

now the square wave powered signal is feeding the tranformer with bemf from the capacitor.

the differnce with this way is that its stripped of its magnetic component. its a pure dielectric energy into the transformer.

could we use this? only use the dielectric bemf from a string pulse to put a coil into resonance?

Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #7, on July 4th, 2017, 01:11 PM »
is there another black ferrite disk?
in the picture from left to right I see:
ferritedisk, white bifilar, blue unifilar, white dielectric, blue unifilar, BLACK FERRITE(?), copper biffilar.

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Matt Watts

Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #8, on July 4th, 2017, 02:29 PM »
Can I say "Oh Sh1t !!"

That dielectric in between the two blue coils...   Are you certain that isn't another side-by-side bifilar coil?    I circled a pair of wires that might feed to it if it is.

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #9, on July 4th, 2017, 03:20 PM »
i dont think so Matt, but who knows (nelson does) maybe there is.

have you seen how many wires are around those coils? all those black strips of contacts(or how do you call that?)

To me it is intuitively making sense, he is using side by side coils, and the dielectric field is in between so the white dielectric is in between the two unifilaf windings making it one bifilar.

but... mayne not.
if the right sided coil is a output coil... than the distanced coil is there to ... eliminate the bemf?

I dont know man... we really need to build and test. and then some more.
And lets invite nelson here again?

Matt Watts


Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #11, on July 5th, 2017, 03:06 PM »
thanks for sharing
Nelson has also a new youtube video
showing a heat radiator, with some hv discharge fun

Matt Watts

Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #12, on July 6th, 2017, 11:17 AM »Last edited on July 6th, 2017, 11:27 AM
Look closely at his latest heat module.  Twenty four volts @ almost 2.5 amps going in.  You see that big toroid choke on the right.  It looks to be wound as a bucking coil.  Now why would he have that there right near the output terminals?  It's not there to filter the output.  Here's what I think he might be doing...

If you put amps into a bucking coil, everyone assumes the magnetic field is cancelled.  I dare say it is not.  A better term would be that the magnetic field is pressurized.  With such a pressurized magnetic field, what do you suppose happens to all that magnetic pressure when you switch off the pressurizing force/source and switch it over to some load?  I can tell you because I have done it.  You get a massive voltage (energy) spike.  I can also tell you the same thing Paul Babcock has told us--you have to switch fast, because once that voltage rise starts shooting out, it kills transistors, immediately.  Ah-ha!  You see those blue capacitors?  They will hold down the voltage rise for just long enough to make the switch; without them the transistors are toast.

The two 8-pin chips placed side-by-side, I'm almost certain those are gate drivers for the two MOSFETs/IGBTs that have finned heatsinks.  That's high-speed switching control.  The other 8-pin chip to the left is probably the oscillator.

If this works the way I think it does, it's pretty darn ingenious.  Nelson isn't using the collapsing magnetic field--he's using two collapsing magnetic fields that have been highly pressurized against each other.  Got to hand it to Nelson, he really gets this stuff, lots better than I do at the moment, but I'm trying.  Keeping up with the master is no easy feat.

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #13, on July 6th, 2017, 01:02 PM »Last edited on July 6th, 2017, 01:32 PM
interesting. 2 bucking coils and using the bemf from them. that would be mighty powerfull.I have to process that in my mind.
sounds like implosion of two counter turning fields.

I stepped away from bucking coils because it seemed unnatural, and because they take in a lot of energy to build up their field energy.

Matt Watts

Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #14, on July 6th, 2017, 03:04 PM »
Just think of them as springs--makes it much easier to understand.  Curl is magnetic.  Curl is what a spring looks like.


Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #15, on July 7th, 2017, 03:29 PM »
need to revisit nelson rocha's published circuit, using a bucking torroid coil
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #16, on July 8th, 2017, 01:46 AM »
I reversed polarity of the c4 capacitor in nelsons published circuit (posted somewhere above) because it became hot.

but...  Nelson on his circuit mentioned cw and ccw at the torroid coil.
I have not done this correct.
cw and ccw is very confusing as it is relative to observation.

Matt states it is a bucking coil, and I think he is correct. with a bucking coil the c4 capacitor would be correct in polarity.

so, i will have to rewind the torroid.
I wonder if a bucking coil is the same as the tensor coil of wilbur smith, as it seems to be a caduceus coil
Restarting with bucking coils
« Reply #17, on July 8th, 2017, 03:27 AM »
I ripped a torroid from a broken power supply, it already had 2 windings on it. going to rewind it into bucking coils.
It has numbers on the side... must relate to the properties of the material used.

if anybody knows what these mean?

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #18, on July 8th, 2017, 03:30 AM »
the wires are aproximitly 53cm long. 1mm thick
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #19, on July 8th, 2017, 03:35 AM »
decided to use 2x 150cm thinner wire. more windings, and easier to bend
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #20, on July 8th, 2017, 03:47 AM »
first winding is on. length seems to fit.
next coil will be counter wound
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #21, on July 8th, 2017, 04:09 AM »
done. the length is good.
inductance measured separate coils
is 2x 0.32mH

when series connected bucking,
the inductance drops to 0.10mH
in theory it could be lower. but it looks good.

this coil will also be used for another relais test. maybe... I'll do that one first as it is so simple

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Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #22, on July 8th, 2017, 04:21 AM »
I also salvaged this side by side filter inductor.
the inductance of the separate coils is 12mH
series connected its 45mH
series connected bucking 0.06mH

looks even better

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Matt Watts

Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #23, on July 8th, 2017, 05:33 AM »
These counter-wound (bucking) inductors still retain a lot of capacity.  All you've done is reduce the self inductance.  The term negative inductor came up in conversation once.  I think of it more as an internally shunted capacitor, meaning it will not hold "charge" (if you will) in steady state, like a normal plate capacitor does.  Instead it will rebound dielectricity like a mirror (because it is one long conductor), but since it does have capacity, it will store quite a bit of dielectricity before it pushes it all back out.

There's another variation to this same theme which I've done, but haven't thoroughly tested.  Use bifilar windings (like speaker wire).  Just wrap the core completely with the two conductor wire, then cross-connect them the same as you would with Tesla's bifilar pancake coil.  This method gives a different effect than keeping each leg separated until the end.  The only use I found with this method is with Verpies' lossless clamp circuit, but again, I didn't rigorously test every possible combination.

It's an unusual device to say the least and I think it has a purpose of which Nelson has put to good use.
Re: Nelson Rocha's devices
« Reply #24, on July 9th, 2017, 08:24 PM »
Evo, please examine this video carefully in the first few moments:

I see the input power leads from his power supply (small red & green) going to the terminal block, then switching to solid white wires that go directly to the right side of his pancake coil stack via the screw-type barrier strips mounted around his pancake coil stack.

I find this very curious and unexpected for any kind of "normal" circuitry.  It's as though the power supply becomes part of his circuit--part of the oscillations within the pancake coil stack.  Do you suppose this is the method he uses to acquire the amperage for his output?

Going to study this video in more detail and post comments as I discern more pieces of the puzzle.