Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode

Matt Watts

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #25, on June 2nd, 2017, 09:44 AM »
I'm certain you are on the right track Evo.  This hybrid hot electricity we are looking to create from its parts is woven together from the dielectric and magnetic fields.  With the right geometry I'm thinking we will be able to reproduce this.  From what Nelson has shared with us, these flat coils offer a means to more effectively create the conditions necessary.  The trick seems to be in the displacement of the vortex and how the dielectric field attaches itself to the magnetic.  The spin and phasing has to be fairly accurate.  Sure wish I could visualize the actual composition of this form of electricity and present it, because if I could, I'd bet it would be easy to see the mechanics, the structure and see how the pancake coils are able to assemble it.


Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #26, on June 2nd, 2017, 09:52 AM »Last edited on June 2nd, 2017, 02:02 PM
yes matt. we are on the right track.
I would like to suggest you focus on the magnetic side, as you have more experience with it, and ill focus on the dielectric side, as that seems to be my thing. and then join our abilities together.

visualise the ring vortex.

a dipole (line) creates a ring vortex around it (near field; see post below)

if you bend the dipole into a ring the ring toroid transforms around the ring.

then the ring becomes the bifilar pancake coil with the hole (phi) in the middle.

i think the ring toroid then forms above and below the windings.

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #27, on June 2nd, 2017, 10:07 AM »
this is from meyls  text book  (there is a torrent online, PM me there is no copyright on his work).

The dipole is from the standard near field theory.
He says that if these fade away, they generate heat, and are seen as antenna noise.

But in the right conditions, the ring vortex produced can be stable.

These drawings are 2D you need to visualise them in 3D.   

hope you see what I see.

 vortex dipole.jpg - 100.39 kB, 682x904, viewed 150 times.

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #28, on June 2nd, 2017, 10:19 AM »
in this pickture the 2 red stripes, are one bifilar coil, with a phi ratio hole in the middle.
the blue stripes are a bifilar coil above and below the red.
The distance between red and blue, is the same as the radius of the hole.
There are 2 ringvorteces. one below and one above the red ring.

In nelsons setup, the red bifilar pancake, would be split into two windings, separated, with a dielectric.
The blue coils would join the 2 red windings. The ring toroid would be formed from both the blue bifilar coils.
These ring vortices would then join together to form one ring vortex.

This one ringvortex, would then circle inside the red separeted coils. inside the dielectric between them.

 double ringvortex.jpg - 17.33 kB, 400x159, viewed 14 times.

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #29, on June 2nd, 2017, 10:24 AM »
this would be nelsons setup, with both ring vortices joined in the dielectric of the center split red bifilar pancake coil

 nelson ringvortex.jpg - 17.67 kB, 357x171, viewed 24 times.

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #30, on June 2nd, 2017, 11:04 AM »Last edited on June 2nd, 2017, 05:37 PM
i made a third coil from speaker wire just like the other 2. resonant frequency 1184khz.
I measured all 3 coils separeted. they are all closely matched in resonant frequency. thats good.

but i did notice my last coil had a bigger resonant voltage rise. with the only difference? i used my hot glue gun to glue the whole coil. both sides. the other coils just had some glue stripes to keep it together.

it seems the glue acts like a dielectric that increases the voltage. so i will now glue the other coils also completly on both sides
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #31, on June 2nd, 2017, 11:39 AM »
2 glued coils.
the speaker wire is rounded. i filled all the ridges with glue.

 IMG_20170602_203738.jpg - 161.76 kB, 800x480, viewed 33 times.

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #32, on June 2nd, 2017, 02:08 PM »

Matt Watts

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #33, on June 2nd, 2017, 05:19 PM »
For certain Evo, if we can make a ring like that with a magnetic field, we're going to have something to show for it.  It's almost impossible to imagine the back EMF from the load creating an echo of this vortex ring and in any way effecting the source.  Therefore the source sees no load, yet we have real power at the load side.  This must be the mechanism we shall work towards.


Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #34, on June 6th, 2017, 05:33 AM »
I tested the longitudinal mode of the bifilar pancake coils again.
pulsed the 4 windings ouside coil. the resonating inside coil i connected to ground at the outside rim.

the inside rim i connected to the next bifilar to its center rim.

that coil i then measured at the 4 outside windings.

the spikes from the pulses showed to decrase in the first coils 4 windings.
at the same time the resonant wave of the second coil was big.

this setup had a lower resonant frequency than in just one coil measurement

also i used a full wave bridge rectifier with a led on the output 4 windings. led worked fine. I connected earth to the second coil to see what it did.
very strange. led kept working. wave form changed.
probed the earth connection. expected a flat line but it wasnt! Ive seen this before. how the hell can there be a signal on the earth connection (used a central heating earth)???

This setup had some problems.
the 4 windigs provide a to low impedance for the igbt. it becomes to hot. to solve this i connected a power resistor of 8 ohm. the igbt became less hot. but i think this isnt a ideal sollution, as the signal in the 4 windings coil becomes a sine instead of a spike.

Im getting tired of this research. I need a break. do something else. Im thinking of researching the health benefits of the standing wave dielectric field.
Ive had some great experiences with this. and i havent explored it enough. I think its relevant to understanding the energy.

I want to rebuild my setup with the antenna, and let it build up the field again. I stopped it because it prevented me to sleep. but meditation was great in this field.
So I need to set it up again, but this time not near my bed. maybe in the garden.

I would love to give the antenna more power. and this  also can be done with the igbt. connect the 19v 4A labtop supply.

another thing is the frequency. build coils with other frequencies and see what the effects are. some frequencies might work differntly on human energy systems
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #35, on June 6th, 2017, 04:41 PM »
man. where did these bad vibes come from? Anyway I had a hot bath with lots of salt in it and i feel myself again. O:-)

this vid shows some good details.
like the counter turns of the coils (can also be seen in the patent). if I translate this to a bifilar coil,maybe  it would mean i still need to connect a rod with a capacitance. to create a direction for the toroid to roll to and be recieved.

makes sense to me.


Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #36, on June 6th, 2017, 09:27 PM »
I would like expand your studies of the pancake coil with a few patents that come to mind
which you may find interesting they are: Single wire Transmission and Double Spiral Coil.
Enjoy and don't forget to look at the reference patents


Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #37, on June 7th, 2017, 02:13 AM »
thanks chuff1
that double spiral coil patent is closely related to what i have in mind.
but i will use the capacitance between both coils(enhanced by a dielectric epoxy). and avoid the magnetic field (waist of dielectric field) by using a large central hole in each coil.

good info again, thanks for sharing.
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #38, on June 7th, 2017, 11:25 AM »
havent read al the patent stuff yet.

worked with the speaker wire coils again.
tried placing one coil on top of the other and pulse one, because the impedance of a whole coil is higher and it prevent the igbt feom getting to hot.

but the symmetry of the coils is differnt the coil itself now has 2 layers and just one layer is touching, this creates a difference in the dielectric field.

when i measure the resonant frequency, i take one end to ground and measure the other. normally with the tesla design of side by side windings it didnt matter wich side was ground but now it does matter.

I get 2 frequencies 1414khz and 1682khz (reversed ground).

the only way to fix this is to use a ring around the coil around the outside winding. (I just removed those because the 4 windings made the igbt hot)

another sollution is to place 2 coil one on top one bellow.  this qould require 2 more coils (i now have 4, they are easy to make).

or i could wrap foil around the coil.

as long as the capacitance on both sides stays the same...
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #39, on June 7th, 2017, 11:41 AM »
i just tested with 2 pulsed coils in series. one above one below.

both sides seem to have the same res frequency, so the theory looks to be right.
but the res frequency is to high. just above 2mhz and thats the max of my pulse gen and igbt.
also the resonant voltage rise is very weak.
this is not the way to go with these speaker coils.

only sollution would be to stay in the same plane. a ring as primary around the coil.
unbalanced resonance
« Reply #40, on June 7th, 2017, 11:49 AM »Last edited on June 7th, 2017, 11:53 AM
this unbalance might be what nelson uses.
the center blue coils with the dielectric would be pulsed in to resonance from both sides.

one side with a strong dielectric field coil (phi hole)
and the otherside with a strong magnetic field (no hole).
the center coil with both unbalansing coils equals out the difference and is balanced again, producing a  very strong field of the combination of the magnetic and dielectric fields.

this is IMPORTANT.
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #41, on June 7th, 2017, 01:44 PM »
on this picture below you see the white left coil has a hole, and it has a black goo smeared on it.
I guess this is the magnetic coil, and the goo is a ferrite paste to confine the magnetic field on one side (a wall to push on)

its from this video (from the start)

 Screenshot_20170607-223521.png - 748.06 kB, 1920x1080, viewed 26 times.


Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #42, on June 7th, 2017, 02:02 PM »Last edited on June 7th, 2017, 03:21 PM
To lower the resonant frequency of the coil you could wind it longer or put another coil in-line
with the spiral to lower the resonant frequency. The other way is to increase capacitance which has its own issues.Here is
a very useful calculator page that allows you to calculate the resonant frequency using a few parameters.  Instead of searching for
it you could set the frequency to whatever you wanted it to be.  Considering that this electrical engineering at its core there are tons
of Math equations that have already been invented that will give you every answer about a coil circuit before you even build it.  I know
that we are looking for anomalies but for a simple flat spiral coil there is nothing out of the ordinary they can do.   
     The question you should be asking yourself is "What am I trying to accomplish?". If it is to create free energy, you will
have no choice but to critically think about where the extra energy will come from because whatever energy you put
into it you will never get it back out due to resistance, capacitor dielectric leakage, self inductance etc... 
If your goal is to create longitudinal waves then you are chasing rabbits because longitudinal waves in space do
not exist.  They must travel down at least one wire to propagate. Tesla pumped energy into the ground and like
an in compressible fluid such as water into a balloon, it automatically squirts out wherever on the balloon there
is a hole aka another tuned circuit.  Tesla never created free energy with his transmitter he said that there is always
losses and to get the energy required to utilize the transmitter he wanted to hook them up to hydroelectric facilities
and transmit the energy everywhere without using cables.
     There was another grand scheme Tesla had and that was to illuminate the skies above the oceans so they
 could see at night by sending huge amounts of energy into the ionosphere via a high voltage generator and huge arc
lamps that would create a channel of ionized particles in which to send the high voltage through up to the
upper atmosphere where it would create a aurora borealis effect.  He would eventually come to the
conclusion that only a charged beam of particles sent through a open vacuum tube would be the answer to
the energy dissipation over a distance that came with using the arc lamps.  But this scheme was separate.
from his transmitter of energy through the ground. 
Now to the part that Meyl has shown is imo Electrostatic field induction.  It is the exact same mechanism
as the electromagnetic field is but using a different medium such as the constantly moving particles of air of our
dielectric atmosphere.   

     So the question that really needs to be answered
is "In what form of energy do I want to tap into?".   Now that is a question that all of us have to answer for ourselves
and follow through to a complete resolution by researching what work has already been done on the subject and
using the research as a stepping stone to reach our goal, then apply what we learn to create an experiment that
will succeed, otherwise we will all hopelessly chase our tails going from one FE experiment to another without
any success until we finally give up and have nothing to show for it.


Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #43, on June 7th, 2017, 02:54 PM »Last edited on June 8th, 2017, 01:30 AM
those formulas are based on transverse electro magnetic fields, they left out the longitudinal field. with a bifilar coil these formulas dont add up because the longitudinal field isnt zero.

in the end the resonant frequencies dont have to be calculated when you can simply dail it  in and see the voltage rise. much easier I think.

still thanks for sharing your thoughts. i think you are right in being able to shift the resonant frequency by changing inductance or capacitance.

I see you updated your message chuff1
I must say I agree to disagree.
For me I simply say: I dont know. because I really dont know. I like experimenting. And I like the suprises it gives me. the insights.
it brings joy to my life. and sometimes Im sad. because most of the time its not what i think, how it works.

I do believe in the sun. it gives energy and life for millions of years with no interruption.

I also believe in space travel (flying disks). I dont believe these are carrying loads of fuel (just a little bit to produce more). Also I do believe they work best in a vacuum. Lots of things work best in a vacuum.

I do agree we have alot of research we can learn from, but also alot of it is supressed and ridiculed.

I am prepared to make mistakes. look like a fool. to gain wisdome instead of knowledge.

In the end, where does the energy come from?
I think it comes from the interaction of more than 2 (EM transverse) fields.
I think its is a interaction between 3 or 4 fields.

I think its a flow of ether that can be produced, and recycled upon itself.

I would love to produce "free" energy by taking a battery, and produce a etherflow that is so strong that we can tap into it.

In the end my goal is wisdom. understanding. and being able to apply it.

to be able for instance to understand gravity and apply this wisdom so I can transport without gravity/inertia.

Its te research to really understand what is going on.
not a discription on what happens. but why it happens.
 i can discribe what happens at the resonant frequency.
but I still cant explain Why it happens.
knowledge is a start. descriptions are observations.
but wisdome. to know on the deepest level understanding. visualising and being to explain it in simple words.
Vortex theory helps me alot with this.
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #44, on June 8th, 2017, 02:45 AM »
another inspiring video from Nelson Rocha.

showing a pulse signal into 4 mosfets
and a slayer exiter circuit.
driving a transformer.
the back emf of the pulses is rectified and used to drive a 60w 230vdc motor and at the same time charge a battery.

and all this is run from 16Vdc 0.8A 13W.
I say the power is amplified

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #45, on June 8th, 2017, 09:59 AM »
I wonder, would the tranformer be fed with a powerfull square wave from the mosfets, and at the same time, with a high voltage peak from the exciter?
restart of the longitudinal power transmission
« Reply #46, on June 21st, 2017, 05:00 PM »Last edited on June 21st, 2017, 05:11 PM
I focus back on the longitudinal power transmission as shown by konstantin meyl.

he showed it with unifilar coils. I want to do it with bifilarcoils with a phi ratio hole in the middle.

If I succeed, it should make a powerfull video.

the bifilar pancake coil has a strong dielectric field.
which is perfect for longitudinal power transmission.

I do believe I've got the wisdom and materials to succeed.

what's the plan?
two coils.  tuned to the same resonant frequency.

the resonant frequency of the longitudinal mode should be pi/2 higher then the transverse resonant frequency. but as Tesla said the frequency is always a little off. we'll see.

tuning can be done by adding capacitance.
today i tried adding capacitance inbetween the 2 windings of a bifilar (in the middle) and this also works (adding parallel capacitance is another option)
replacing the bridge between the 2 windings has more effects. res freq was lower, and the voltage rise was higher. but I also saw more then one resonant frequency. A strange new effect that i didnt know before.

the direction of the coils windings should be counter rotating.
To achieve a direction with a unifilar coil, would be to put the ball capacitance (dielectic counterspacial ground) on the other side of the coil (flip it around).
As the capacitance of a bifilar is already in between the windings, i could use the same method. But maybe there is another way. instead of grounding the outside rim, we could ground the inside rim.
not sure but worth a try.
another idea is instead of using a ball, to use a parallel sheet of metal foil (mirror) above the coil.
It could be that only one direction works so ill need to experiment with it until it works.

if the coils are tuned and the transmitter coil is pulsed into longitudinal resonance, via an outside wound  primary coil (in the same  plane, with the same length/weight as the secondary coil).
the resonant coil should be able to pump energy into the ground via a single ground wire. (another idea is to ground the center bridge between the 2 windings of the bifiar).

the reciever coil is the exact same coil as the transmitter coil but connected different. the resonant coil will also(as the transmitter also does) need a ground wire to recieve. but the coil (and its energy fields)  needs to be wound the other way as stated before.

the surrounding (primary) coil now is to be rectified, and buffered by a capacitor to drive a load (dc fan).

If all is well tuned it should be possible to separate the coils and recieve a near 100% power. for instanc,  power the transmitter at my house and drive a fan at a neighbors house, by using the same waterpipe grounding.

I would love to see their eyes light up when the fan blows wind in their faces without a battery only a wire to the kitchen sink :wtf:

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #47, on June 22nd, 2017, 03:56 AM »
phi coil with primary wound around it. both made from the same length speaker wire (10m each).
So its not the tesla design coil but side by side windings.

If all else fails, i could reconnect the coil into a unifilar coil

 IMG_20170622_125246_DRO.jpg - 152.09 kB, 800x480, viewed 21 times.

Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #48, on June 22nd, 2017, 02:24 PM »
made another one. and fixated both with hot glue.
need to make the connections and measure both the coils resonant frequency, and tune them.
Re: Bifilar pancake tesla coils, pulsed at longitudinal mode
« Reply #49, on June 22nd, 2017, 03:47 PM »Last edited on June 22nd, 2017, 03:49 PM
the coils dont need to be tuned.
one coil is resonant at 1020khz
the other at 1040khz
the bandwidth alows it to be used at 1030 khz.

but... this is only the transverse standing wave mode.
the longitudinal mode(pi/2 higher) seems to be a narrower bandwidth. so maybe... it needs a few pF to tune down, to match both coils.

I added a 250pF parallel. the resonant frequency dropped to around 550 kHz and the voltage of the sine went up.

I also used a 10nF cap in parallel. the resonant voltage dropped to 96khz. but the cap with a 630Vdc rating became very hot. it was a white mallory 150.
the resonantvoltage rise fluctuated around 350v Ac.

why did that 10nF cap become so hot?