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Open - Source - Research => Open-Source Ideas => Topic started by: --Oz-- on March 26th, 2019, 01:09 AM

Title: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on March 26th, 2019, 01:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQE05T-3680
 :yodel: :yoda: :emperor: :cleaning:

2,088,600 million RPM, 34,810 rev per sec, 733mph, and 7.3 million G's
https://youtu.be/beH0OgSpcYo

I been watching YT videos on the pmbo comps and decided to finally try a high rpm motor. I hesitated for a long while because of the exotic coils being made. I said lets get a hall sensor out of a dc brushless fan (40mm), connector up to a larger drive fet, wrap a simple coils and give it a spin. A few days playing with it I was just above 1Mrpm. Never got a video of it, then it sat on the shelf for 2 years, then I saw another video and dug out the project again. Decided to update my drive circuit by adding a pre driver to drive the gate and as an option build an identical second driver for push/pull. I tried the push/pull but it really did not improve on what I was doing, probably never was doing it correctly, not sure, might revisit it again.

I broke my personal record with 1,140,901rpm, 19.02KHz, maximum ball equator speed = 668mph (979kph) and 3.64 million G's at the equator, at that point, the ball has a slight issue at that point in time. :bliss: Before getting to a million rpm, around 8~900,000, if ran long enough, the ball would wear down it silver coating and sometime shed its chrome skin. :cleaning:

I made my first video and put a little incorrect data (lower mph numbers) do to me thinking I was using a 3mm ball, when it was 5mm. Here is my corrected video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PyTevLzYM8
It is burning about 30W (5V, 6A).

My thoughts on coils with my little experience. Reading "The density of flux lines is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source", I figured no need to make a large coil (although those starship coils do look very interesting), a simple 10~15 turn one inch diam coil made in 20 seconds exceeded the 5mm balls rpm capability. 0rpm to explosion is about 2.2 seconds in these 5mm neo balls.

I have a few ideas on higher rpm, parts are ordered. More info here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=91160

FYI, I have two layers of protection to my face and three layers to my eyes, kids, dont try this at home, leave it to the professionals. :deathstar:

--Oz--
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on March 26th, 2019, 09:41 AM
Welcome Oz, you've come to the right place :-D
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on March 27th, 2019, 09:31 AM
wow super impressive oz--  ... nearly 400 times faster than a normal motor.  lol

...  my newman motor is super efficent because the magnet rotates inside the coil, and generates a complimentary voltage,  thus reduces the load current on the input too near zero.    and because it is so big, you can extra usable torque without adding too the input, .  much more avaliable out, than in. -


haha i love the impracticality of free energy machines these days. - so much less ```~~~ in the old days.
but if you could organise that with a small motor,  that would be even more usful. 

Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: ~Russ on March 29th, 2019, 11:40 AM
Fun times Oz.

Nice looking lab!

~Russ
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on March 29th, 2019, 07:43 PM
Thanks for the comments guys!

When I first saw the pmbo I was intrigued, love the speed and electronics. But the exotic starship coils slowed me down a bit as I did not have the 3d printer, then I saw the wood & nails version. But I still did not understand exactly what is going (and I still dont :) ). I read some magnetic basics material and I tried an idea (picture), but it did not work at all.

First reason I thought was they were phased incorrectly, one inductor is facing 180 degrees, but then the current direction is also flipped, so two inversions is not the design to pull on both north and south sides of the ball at the same time. I fixed that, but what killed the design was the inductor core, the ball just sticks to it and wont spin. Doh!

A bit of thinking and I have a new coil design, its super simple, will be twice the work, so about 1 minute worth. :cool: Should be in my next video.

I did not like the random position of the ball to coil and hall sensor to get this thing working reliably, one of my next baby steps is to look into this closer. Another area I would like to investigate is better electronics (adjustable features), I did build a new drive circuit and using a hall switch sensor vers fan controller. First quick test showed great clean signals (current probe was much more what I expected to see vers thats in my video), only revved it up to half mil.

@Patrick1, link to your  "newman motor" please.
@Russ, yea I like it, work pays me to use it :rofl:
And my new favorite toy, 63GHz 4-ch real time scope, half million bucks


Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on March 30th, 2019, 02:10 AM
Quote from --Oz-- on March 29th, 07:43 PM
And my new favorite toy, 63GHz 4-ch real time scope, half million bucks
:blink:

You'll have a hard time explaining how the hell you managed to fry one of the channels on that baby despite using state of the art probes.

Been there, done that.

Fortunately it was my own scope, so no real harm done :-D
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on March 30th, 2019, 02:18 AM
..........and no, my scope wasn't half a million bucks, it was more like $400 all those 20 odd years ago. I still use it though, just need to be more careful with what I feed it with :emperor: :blink2:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on March 30th, 2019, 12:39 PM
The 63GHz scope is $12K per month to rent, so we bought it, also each probe are 10~12K. My 1GHz scope is $17K and probes are $1K each.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on March 31st, 2019, 06:40 AM
lol thats alot of coin.  i hope the ignorant tax payers money is well spent.

;-D.  like on my pension ;P

anyhoo, - here is my newman motor, - a very ellaborate way of driving 12 watts into globe from a 20watt source

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3zjje8hgw&t=339s

-  although that may obscure the true meriit of these motors, - i can more easily drive it with 0.2 watts, and get 5 watts out. - but building my rig too do that feels kind of lame. - rather just pull on my shaft
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on March 31st, 2019, 07:28 AM
Quote from patrick1 on March 31st, 06:40 AM
i can more easily drive it with 0.2 watts, and get 5 watts out.
So you would be abe to loop it then, correct?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on March 31st, 2019, 10:28 AM
i am completley confident of that, however have never done so, - dont laugh, - its actually not as easy as it sounds, i have a collection of about 50 motors and generators - worth about 500kgz, or $8.60 but the mechanical loss's are high in everything, unless it is suited too the task.

like my linear motor coil, which is COP 6.2 @ 1 watt. - the newman motor will match the high COP, but it is easier too tune,  - with newman just add more wire, and its reduces the input current, and reduces the speed of rotation.  **with huge torque**, - that is the output.

however if you remove 98% of the wire. , then you have a perfectly normal PMDC motor, - that has high rpm and small torque, - so when you load the shaft, - the rpm drops and it uses more power, - however with the newman motor, you load the shaft, and it dosnt slow down, .

so because i dont know how too "OU" a transformer very well yet, - .. im just building a huge newman motor, for lots of free torque.  ...    my current one has a rotor radius of 4.5cm, - so not a big lever angle, - my new newman will have a 20cm lever angle, - so Flack know how much power i will get out of it. mabee as much as a few hundred watts with a few watts in...    i think it would be if i was using neo's that size, but they dont exist, - so wel have too wait and see about these cheapo 25cm x 2cm stacked ferrite speaker magnets.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on March 31st, 2019, 10:34 AM
that video i posted above was with 1.4kohms

i have since lowered it incrementally down too 900ohms, - and seen a massive jump is rpm, - AND output voltage under load, - . the your paying disproportionately more on the input....  best cop is the max resistance.,  so kind of a white elephant, unless you built it too last a lifetime.
....

issue with that is, the magnet exerts force apon the windings in order too turn ** dah., -- this is why i named mine the moustache motor
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on March 31st, 2019, 11:01 AM
Well, as long as you don't forget to post a video once you've looped yourself a self runner, that would beat all.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on March 31st, 2019, 12:23 PM
ahhhh you know all the newman guys are having a quiet laugh whilst powering their ceilfans as perpetual motion
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on March 31st, 2019, 12:37 PM
Hard to beat a self runner.
Perpetual motion............well, if you remember to grease the bearings every now and then ;-)
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on March 31st, 2019, 04:39 PM
Quote from patrick1 on March 31st, 06:40 AM
lol thats alot of coin.  i hope the ignorant tax payers money is well spent.

;-D.  like on my pension ;P

anyhoo, - here is my newman motor, - a very ellaborate way of driving 12 watts into globe from a 20watt source

-  although that may obscure the true meriit of these motors, - i can more easily drive it with 0.2 watts, and get 5 watts out. - but building my rig too do that feels kind of lame. - rather just pull on my shaft
Private company, no government bs. We design IC's for internet traffic (working on 400gbps pam4) and video.

 Regarding your motor, thanks for sharing, I see so many energy robbing components (5/10 watt resistors, many silicon diodes about 20 of them (unlike synchronous rectification), just the blinking LEDs could burn 25mW or 12% of your input power), rubber hose coupler with a bend in it, can you show a schematic for your setup please?

Quote "12 watts into globe from a 20watt source", thats 60% efficient. :fdrum:

EDIT: I found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newman%27s_energy_machine
"the United States district court requested that Newman's machine be tested by the National Bureau of Standards (NBS). The NBS concluded in June 1986 that output power was not greater than the input.", thermodynamics wins again :@

3 decades ago, I designed free energy (lol), it pulls current from the 115V mains for ~1ms pulses at the right timing and freq, the old rotating electric meters could not detect this short pulse, so it was free. :pirates:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on April 1st, 2019, 03:27 AM
laughs, ive just order the components too make an ultra short duration pwm setup, - 0.1 duty cycle, or mabee 0.01, -  with decade counters.

in relation too my newman, - the 60% efficent i mentioned, , from 20watts input, .  it should be noted, that for me too turn that generator, by spinning it by hand, grasping the perimeter,...  is very hard too do, and i would be sweaty in 3 mins flat, - i think it would take your average dc motor at least 100-150watts  too do the same job, and thats assuming its geared right.

i was thinking about doing the loop thing again in bed last nite, - truley the problem i have,, is the lack of suitable generator. - but if dialed the input way too too max the COP. and put it down too 100v, or 0.2watts.  - and put a gear on it, - the looping is laughable, -- so much excess energy. - but problem is, too drive the h-bridge, - i am using 4, mains tiny transformers,- also using 2w total. - ...  so 2.2watts. total. - and my home made hv power supply probably uses 5 watts too produce 0.2 watts out, - so say 8 watts total, too drive 0.2watts into the drive coil. - but i still think that would loop fine.  - its just a mess thats all.    - so still thinking about this. - but i will do it,.

one other factor i forgot too mention yesterday, critially, - ---&& i said that more wire = less input power current, and less rpm, and more torque.

but what i didnt say, - is that after you pile on the wire, - and try too raise the voltage, - - the current does not rise in proportion !!

---  so all roads point too rome, - build it big.

next video will be up in a few days. will post it here.

- also do you think i can outpace a ferrite transformer too gain advantage ?. - many years ago, i collected the bemf off a bunch of ferrite cores, - , (the primarys).  - and all off the secondaries, too the same cap. - . and found that there is excess energy.... - but not much. i pretty sure about the results though, - i think about cop 1.3 -.   i was just swapped the caps back and forth....     primary bemf, and secondary output, together. - and it worked with like 3 or 4 salvaged prewound ferrite cores... anyway ignore all of that.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on April 1st, 2019, 07:08 AM
Thanks for the reply! I am new to this form and dont know how to use it efficiently. I searched for newman motor and nothing and again with your ID. Thanks for a link to your motor. Please start a newman motor thread (and post a link here), please share your current schematic. Its best to keep threads on topic, thanks and good luck.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on April 1st, 2019, 12:31 PM
hehe yes sorry about my late night long reply, - was too excited too squeeze in those critical notes about asymetry between voltage and current

here is my newman thread , http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3367.msg51975#msg51975   , more too come soon
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on April 26th, 2019, 03:28 PM
Today I stepped it up a notch. Using a new circuit (hall sensor, fet driver, more coil voltage, 3mm ball, etc) I got to 1,579,800rpm, 26,330 revs per sec, 555mph (slower) and 4.1 million G's

The 3mm ball looks so much smaller then the 5mm, its probably the volume difference. As can be seen, the coil current waveform looks much better than with the old circuit, it almost looks like I know what I am doing. :rofl:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 1st, 2019, 03:26 PM
Today I stepped it up another notch.  I got to 1,715,400rpm, 28,590 revs per sec, 602mph and 4.9 million G's. :bliss:
Added 574,000rpm over my 5mm ball.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 2nd, 2019, 08:40 AM
:thumbsup2:

Just be careful so you don't create a shortcut in time/space, which beams you to the next galaxy or whatever :-D

Congrats Oz, keep up the good work :-)
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 2nd, 2019, 08:55 AM
Quote from Lynx on May 2nd, 08:40 AM
:thumbsup2:

Just be careful so you don't create a shortcut in time/space, which beams you to the next galaxy or whatever :-D

Congrats Oz, keep up the good work :-)
Thanks for your comments. I was about to make a video when I got to 1.5M, kinda glad I didn't, now at 1.7M. The new 3mm balls are coated with red something, some hang in there others just shead themself above 1M. I am using nylon standoffs to contain the ball, they have a much thicker wall and can't really see through them, but its safer and the only thing I thought of to hold them at the moment. Here is the weird thing, when they disintegrate, sometimes they give off a small flash, only god knows why, haha.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: warj1990 on May 2nd, 2019, 12:40 PM
I wonder if Teflon will give you more speed, less friction.  Drill out a hole for the magnet to sit in. 

Friction doesn't seem to be your limit at this point...lol,   maybe it will reduce heat and help prevent the current (present) limits.

W. 
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 2nd, 2019, 02:35 PM
Yes, I thought of that, Teflon or maybe Delrin. Instead of drilling a hole, I wanted to start with a tube, as the hall and mainly the coil could be placed closer to the ball, I think this is key to these speeds.

I have tried powdered graphite, it does help, but not for long, got to keep reapplying it, and it's a mess, lol.

I think an air bearing is a great idea but the ball needs some limiters. I have air lines piped behind my bench, need to get a valve to control air flow.

Thanks for your comments. Hint: I will have a update soon. :)
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 2nd, 2019, 11:48 PM
2, 088,600 RPM, 34,810 rev per sec, 733mph, and 7.3 million G's :yodel:
https://youtu.be/beH0OgSpcYo

I edited my first post.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 3rd, 2019, 09:22 AM
laugh of loud.  and i thought namirha's thread was good.

do you like the star wars dremel . reminds me of a magnetic bearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ23j1hB-1o
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 3rd, 2019, 06:47 PM
That is very cool, thanks for sharing. I have 6 dremel tools, mostly bought at garage sales, always in better condition (mainly front bearing) than my last. Very convenient to spin a object in one dremel and use a second one to do the work (cut/grind/polish), works great.

I bought some 20mm balls (not here yet), they were cheap at $2 for 2 shipped. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-20mm-Diameter-Black-Magnetic-Round-Ball-Hematite-Singing-Magnets-Black/173665700036?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I am going to play very safe with them. :deathstar: :cleaning:
When I got the 3mm balls, I thought they were 2mm because looking at 5mm for so long, the 3mm is tiny, but its the volume that is so different, volume of each ball
3mm=14
5mm=65
20mm=4128 :scared: :hehhee:

FYI, I have used banggood, ebay, digikey, for a long time. I recently was looking for a better hall sensor just to mess with, ebay wanted too much (its not a popular model), digikey cost too much and had a 8 week lead time, then I found Arrow electronics, wow, 5 hall sensors for $6.50 shipped, and they take paypal, win win.
https://www.arrow.com/?utm_currency=USD&gclid=CjwKCAjwza_mBRBTEiwASDWVvn7JAX3Ss14zFHfZFdukknJYXbpmdaSw6aVUWRfen-ONUScMjZZBdhoC33EQAvD_BwE
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 3rd, 2019, 11:09 PM
Hope you know what you're doing Oz.
A 20mm steel ball makes for quite the projectile if it goes off a tangent while spinning at, well not quite but on it's way to atleast, relativistic speeds :fear:
Play it safe, that's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 4th, 2019, 02:09 AM
somehow high speed is more exciting than free energy, - go figure !.   

you know if i wasnt creaming myself enough over this experiment, -  how about a pickup coil placed over it @ relativistic speeds - with a length of resistive wire as the load..
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 4th, 2019, 07:21 AM
I liked the size of the 5mm magnet ball, was easy to control compared to the 3mm, but they just let go at ~1.1Mrpm. I wished it was stronger tensile strength like steel is, then could get higher rpm's. But steel is not a magnet so will not work. Then I came up with this idea, EDM drill a hole in a steel ball bearing and glue in a cylinder magnet. This needs to be done correctly to work (good fit and correct glue). If you ever tried to drill though hardened anything, its a nightmare, now try it though a hardened ball, almost impossible, but check out this video, the thumbnail alone is amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpHYBz7ToII&t=6s

Let me say it again, with my experience seeing plenty of 5mm ball explode and the energy they have, then going to 3mm balls and seeing the energy difference, also looking at the volume difference (20mm has 63x more volume than the 5mm ball), that 20mm ball is going to be handled in very careful manor (semi remote controlled), just like a redheaded step child. :hide: :fear:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 4th, 2019, 07:30 AM
One of my weak points of this project is ball containment, I need to up my game in that department, I have a few ideas, any suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 4th, 2019, 11:43 AM
Check out this find, 50x50x25mm N52 High Quality Rare Earth Magnet Neodymium, seems like a bargain at $7, urging myself to find a application, lol
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Block-50x50x25mm-SUPER-STRONG-N52-High-Quality-Rare-Earth-Magnet-Neodymium/223459995744?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dd17815cd14a248b58e8d07389968243f%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D223459995744%26itm%3D223459995744&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A3bedbbf5-6e9c-11e9-8207-74dbd1800607%7Cparentrq%3A8426b78f16a0ab1d0a136c53fff0c28b%7Ciid%3A1
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 5th, 2019, 07:05 AM
Quote from patrick1 on May 4th, 02:09 AM
somehow high speed is more exciting than free energy, - go figure !.
I love racing, power is nothing without control (lol, 1970's Pirelli commercial). From slot cars for 15 years, rc on-road cars for two decades (12th in the 1996 world champions), and pc sim online racing for a decade. My slot cars got a speed increase from 12v to 40v and a modified gun. The online racing was great, I got tired of the failing pots in the pedals and wheel, so I made my own wheel/pedals with hall sensors and a 12bit resolution controller (from 8bit), night and day. I mostly play with quad copters now (drones), zero to 13 G's in 1.2 seconds, 0 to 84mph in 1.5 seconds, total freedom over planes, any direction anytime, check out my video in my link at the bottom.
Quote from patrick1 on May 4th, 02:09 AM
you know if i wasnt creaming myself enough over this experiment, -  how about a pickup coil placed over it @ relativistic speeds - with a length of resistive wire as the load..
If you look at how a efficient transformer is made (tight winding around excellent magnetic material core - like in one of your videos), my spinning ball is far from anything efficient. :hillbilly: Large air gap, coil barely coming near the ball. My 3mm ball at 2Mrpm, I was burning ~70W. :laughing:

Last night I came up with a neat idea to try. It involves a aluminum tube. :yoda:
I really wish I new how to program, I have so many ideas I would like to try.

And last, have you herd of Halo Drive, pretty wild stuff. Many videos on this subject, here is one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFqL9CkNxXw&t=640s
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 5th, 2019, 02:09 PM
wow 12'th in a world title race, pretty awesome experience. 

great job,

im still racking my mind btw, but i think, in relation too my high rpm coil idea,   you machine reminds me now of an epic flywheel, -   technically i think, you can store, WAY MORE power than a capacitor, and disscharge it almost as fast, -        imagine spinning a 1inch ball up and what it could be used for... laughs, too early in the morning here... - perhaps magnetizing  ....   anyways  good luck moving up too RF transistors, and silicone filled basketballs, -     -- just quietly , i hope you take it a few steps further ;-D
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 5th, 2019, 04:28 PM
Thanks.
About 6 years ago I made this spinning top, I can spin it up with the brushless 1200kv motor, then pop the motor stator off. With 12V input and half thro, it spins for 65 minutes. Its a SS ring I found that is 10" diameter and 910g. I have only spooled it up to half throttle,,, well because it looks like if something went wrong, it would rip you a new one. :rtard:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 6th, 2019, 09:33 AM
crikey now thats a spoon !!

makes me want too laser cut one,  my local shop will cut 2.5 - 3mtr diameter, and they have 1foot thick steel sheets in stock. lol L L L L L L L L  lots of them

decandillo steel in perth, - they are cheap too, - they did cad work for some 2" sprockets for me,, in 2mm thick, and printed 10 of them for a total of $40. ouch.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 8th, 2019, 02:45 PM
5-8-2019 Upped it a bit today, another 144,000rpm and +1 mil G's:
2,232,000, 37,200 revs per sec, 784mph and 8.3 million G's
More importantly I learned a few things that I need to think about how to solve, one should be obvious in the 2.23 mil picture. The other is more important.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 9th, 2019, 01:39 PM
Learning from yesterday and from testing today I got to:
3,176,400 RPM - 52940 RPS - 1116MPH - 1796KPH - 16.9M G's
I am burning ~125W, turning a tiny 3mm ball, about as efficient as a Cadillac, lol. New ideas has come from todays experiments.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 10th, 2019, 12:24 AM
I was wondering why I get a flash when the ball sheds its skin or just plain disintegrates.
My theory is the shell is made of copper and nickel, both good conductors.When they depart from the magnet, the magnet is still spinning and generating voltage in the shell fragments, and if the shell creates a short, it might give off a flash of light, like a short circuit can. Plausible, thoughts, ideas?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 10th, 2019, 09:44 AM
Maybe a plasma forms which at the moment of overarching shorts some electromagnetic energy inherent in the ball, making it...……..disintegrate :deathstar:
Careful you must be, or disappear you could :myoda:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 14th, 2019, 09:06 PM
The more and more I experiment with 3mm balls, almost all flash or some throw sparks when she lets go. Would be nice to see it in a clear container and in slow mo.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 15th, 2019, 08:44 AM
Maybe it will look something like this,
 (https://www.elisascience.org/files/styles/fullsize/public/images/black-hole-event-wide.jpg)

:-D








:hide:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 15th, 2019, 08:52 AM
Cool, what is that a picture of?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 15th, 2019, 09:23 AM
Simulation of a black hole exploding.
If you find that everyones clocks in the entire World seems to have somehow shifted forward in time by a few seconds compared to your own clock after the ball has exploded then maybe you should consider keeping a healthy distance from that spinning ball, especially when it :deathstar:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 15th, 2019, 10:41 PM
Today I blew three IRFZ46N FET's, These are salvaged out of a UPS unit. I been turning up the coil voltage to 20V and C.C limit to 10A. I have seen the coil CEMF fly up to ~80V, fet rating is 55V. I am going to try adding a 15V zener to the gate I have laying around. Thinking of adding a snubber across the coil (RC, or polarized RC-D) .

I been playing with coils too, 1 mil was wrapped around a pill bottle, then I tried a smaller coil and got to 2 mil (many other things also changed), for 3 mil I used the same diam coil but halved the turns, but used bi-filer (two wires parallel), and a couple other changes. I think its time to try a lower inductance coil (current will ramp up quicker) and flyback less and maybe would not kill the fets I currently have. I am seeing peak currents of ~40A,


Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 16th, 2019, 04:04 PM
I did not have time to try fet protection, so I blew another fet today, it also took out the 3906 npn bottom totem pole fet driver, replaced the fet but not the 3906 (I didn't know at that moment). I quickly noticed the coil current (green trace) was weird. After fixing it, I turned up the gate voltage from 5 to 10V, then I seen some 93Apk 51Arms coil current at only 1 mill rpm (2.8A/us rise time, lower inductance please)), LOL. Your going efficient, i am going for ozone hole above me. :pirate:
Title: 3.3 Million RPM, 55,800 rev/sec, 1176MPH, 1893kph, 18.8 Million G's
Post by: --Oz-- on May 17th, 2019, 09:38 PM
3,348,000 RPM, 55,800 rev per sec, 1176mph, 1893kph, 18.8M G's today.

My 20mm big balls came in today. :nuke: I will go full safety with these suckers, they are only 296 times to volume of the 3mm balls, lol!
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 17th, 2019, 09:52 PM
Best sparks, would that be at the time for ball disintegration?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 17th, 2019, 10:24 PM
Yep, spontaneously disassembles itself. :)
The bottom standoff is the one that the sparks came from, the top one half the ball is missing, the other half is chum.

Off topic: Second picture I changed components to tune channel #1, we running at 56 Gbaud per channel (601,295,421,44 per second, per channel, or 7Gbytes a second per channel), there is 4 channels at this speed, for a combined 224 Gbaud. If your familiar with the smaller smt resistors/capacitors, 0402 is kinda small, then there is 0201, here I am using 01005, see bottom of picture, I placed a 0402 next to a 01005 part.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 17th, 2019, 11:41 PM
This picture is amazing once you figure out what happened. I will let you guys ponder a bit at today's interesting scope shot.

EDIT: Hint, the "T" in the top left of the picture is the scope trigger point, 0 rpm to the left. After many many attempts for personal rpm record and I did get my high record of 3.34 Mrpm on Friday (5-17-2019), I always set the vertical cursors to my current record (in microseconds), so I can see when I beat my personal best.

I usually prepare 10~15 balls for testing that day, one day, I got to this one ball, I guess things were just right (ball/container/angle/settings). What happened was amazing and unbelievable, with about ~250W (18V ~13A). First hall sensor trigger, it gave a ~0.25 second burst, I could hear the power supply give a quick 60Hz hum, sucking some juice, then the scope displayed high 2 million rpms! WTF! The major keys it was legit was no vibrations and the ball was still spinning down from momentum. I have been running the scope at 10us/div (since going for 2+ mil), but I decided to get the big picture, zoomed out the scope to 100ms/div and set single trigger and tried again, moved the hall sensor into position and it happened again, a burst of around 200~250ms then hall stops triggering the coil. I zoom the scope into the end of the coil drive signal, this time just over 3 million in a quarter second! I stopped to think about it, no Ford transmission vib's, just pure signing spinning ball. Blown away I called a friend to witness what happened, I did it 4 more times, the most impressive time was in the picture, it shows 0 rpm to 3.2 million rpm in ~25ms!. That is an average 130Krpm acceleration every 1ms. This is what happens when you pump in~ 250W (1/3HP) to spin a 3mm ball that weighs nothing (~0.11g) AND everything is close to optimal. I have seen something similar before during testing, just not starting at 0 rpm, it hit 3.5 mil and 4.1 mil once, but I did not believe it, I did not know what was going on then, so I never posted it.

From my 40+ years playing with motors and racing, I knew the first time I saw 300K rpm on YT that containing the ball was a key instead of letting it thrashing around, efficiently coupling the flux to the ball and timing. 5mm balls were relatively simple, switching to 3mm balls was much tougher to solve. My method works (nylon standoff drilled to let the ball drop in, then contain with with a nylon screw), but by far it is not optimum, I liked that it was low cost, I can prepare a bunch before testing and provides some safety, much more than the 5mm spontaneously disassembles with a punch. I have some more ideas, but each one is more $$ and more time to develop it. I like the technical challenge, thinking of ideas, building, testing, tuning, retesting, repeat.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 18th, 2019, 01:44 AM
Nope, ain't see nothing.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 19th, 2019, 12:40 PM
wow cool, cant wait for an update.

btw.  i use c3998 transistors, they designed for tv flybacks. - 1500v and up 20amps.  -   they might be abit oldschool.  - but pretty cool i think, - ive driven up too 400watts for 1min through them with resistive loads. -  - also use them for high current, low voltage in my psu's,  try 2 use them for everything so get too know them well, - and by far best so far in my newman motor,   - my front line bad boys,  noob friendly too.  , and usually about $1,10 usd each on ali express. -
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 20th, 2019, 12:39 AM
https://youtu.be/ZQE05T-3680
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 21st, 2019, 01:15 PM
Today: 3,808,800 RPM, 63,480 RPS, 1338mph, 2153kph, 24.3M G's
And two more dead fets, I think its time to tackle this issue, 80V from the coil (60V from flyback, added to the 20V from the power supply) on a FET rated for 55V (min, they dont give a max spec, weird)

EDIT: I remember when I was trying for 1 mil, or 60us period, now if I am not hitting 20us I call it a dud. :fdrum: Now I am under 16us.
I just found a 700V fet, but its 9A cont and 27A pulsed, I dont think its going to last. :nuke:
EDIT: Nope, I didnt kill it, but that thing has 1Ω Rdson, so it gets hot doing nothing, lol. and it does not push the current I want. It came out of a cheap low wattage PC power supply. The semi high resistance is probably great for low emi.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 24th, 2019, 06:26 PM
Having trouble hitting 4 mil, blowing more fets, lucky they are cheap, actually these were free, robbed them out of a discarded UPS, mounted on the heat sink, 4 sets with 4 fets on each. But they are cheap, less than 50 cents each on ebay. I been lazy on adding a snubber, so that is next. I looked closer at the drain signal and it clearly shows why the fet is blowing, repetitive avalanche mode, this is the reason the drain voltage is clamped at ~65V (blue trave in 3.8mil picture above, I am clearly exceeding the fets max drain-source voltage. If the snubber does not work, I will be looking at better fets.To be clear, its not just the fets holding me back, I routinly get low 3 mil, but the balls give up 1 to 3 mil often, plus some other issues.

I still am not sure why the ball flashes when she gets upset :rant: But I got a good one today at a slow 1.5 mil, I video at 1080 and 60 frames per second, this was only in 1 frame.

How do you get the " Attachments and other options…" when you start a reply? I have to save the reply and then modify the reply for it to show up?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on May 24th, 2019, 11:15 PM
Quote from --Oz-- on May 24th, 06:26 PM
How do you get the " Attachments and other options…" when you start a reply? I have to save the reply and then modify the reply for it to show up?
Try pressing "Preview", that brings up "the rest" ;-)
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 27th, 2019, 12:14 PM
wow amazing, 20us is fast !.  exactly as fast as i have ever managed too get down too.  -  really impressive,  16us is better !!. - really getting into the realm of professional hardware now.  ....  you may want too consider scrapping DC altogether and using a gradual ramping AC signal with RF transistors
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 27th, 2019, 05:09 PM
Thanks. I am pretty sure the square wave applied to the coil is really a ramping triangle wave (coil current equals magnetic field strength). I am getting tired of blowing fets, going to try a RCD snubber, if that dont work, been looking at proper rated fets for this application, I am a team budget guy, I maybe have spent $20 on this project total. Its really amazing seeing the coil current increase by just increasing gate voltage (lowers RDSon dramatically). I mostly was running the hall sensor and fet driver at 5V, turning it up to 6 and upto 10 really ups the current. Playing with gate voltage and timing I got the coil current up to 93A (from 25 to 40A normally on 5V), see picture (1800W peak and 1000Wrms), I dont plan on running it that high normally. There is so many little things to fine tune/optimize. I did find something interesting on timing I want to test and understand better and then fine tune, also some different ideas on coils I want to build/test. I also want to try some different magnets, but I am having a hard time finding the dimensions and magnetic diametric orientation I want, Alibaba has them, but they want you to buy a pallet full of them, lol.

I remember finally getting to 1 mil (60us), improving to 50us was semi easy, now down to under 20, 1 or 2us is pretty tough. I have many ideas to try but requires time.

On the back burner, I have a idea, that might just work, but it requires a few relatively difficult things worked out to make it work, its pretty bold (read as "a lot of work" :) ) I wanted to crack 4 mil with my current setup and then start testing coils/magnets/timing, but currently with my setup, low 3 mil is pretty common (maybe 1 or 2 of of ten tries), but 3.5 mil and above not happening the last few days tring, I think I just got lucky with the 3.8 mil (the stars wear aligned).
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 28th, 2019, 02:27 PM
Regarding microseconds, from:
16us to 15us is 250,000rpm increase, (4.0 mil)
15us to 14us is 285,000rpm increase,
14us to 13us is 330,000rpm increase,
13us to 12us is 385,000rpm increase. (5.0 mil)
12us to 11us is 454,000rpm increase.
11us to 10us is 546,000rpm increase.
10us to 9us is 666,000rpm increase.(6.0 mil)
9us to 8us is 834,000rpm increase. (6.8 mil)
8us to 7us is 1,070,000rpm increase.(8.5 mil)
7us to 6us is 1,430,000rpm increase. (10 mil)

Yeappers, its getting exponentially harder. Houston, I need more power!
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on May 29th, 2019, 09:19 AM
wow nice work, - erm perhais i was wrong about my 20us. - now that i recall again, i think i was measuing fall times, - and got it down too ns's - 200/400 ns. - anyways that was a while ago, - working on rosemary Ainsley heater.  (which was fail).  but good fun too really attack.

i found the best way too acheive the times i was, - too supply significantly too much current too the base, - and pull it hard too ground with like 500ohm resistor ,  just slam the cunt shut and get out.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 29th, 2019, 09:57 AM
I am more of a FET guy, I would rather charge/discharge the gate cap than have a low gain bipolar transistor (they both have their advantages). I was looking at some fet drivers, last one I looked at was 12A, lol.

At work, we measure our data signal transitions in pico and now femtoseconds (not power stuff), with 4 lanes we getting 400+Gbps.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 29th, 2019, 01:45 PM
I tested a 600V 8A fet (MTW8N60E) today with no ball, input signal was function generator.
I made a simple 10:1 voltage divider so I dont kill my scope probe (blue trace, red is gate, green is coil current).
With 4V applied to the coil, I got a flyback of 670V and no fet avalanche seen on the scope.
5V and higher avalanche was 680V.
Also the higher voltage fet was only rated for 8A (24A peak), so this was really limiting the coil current and the flyback voltage. In this picture you can see the coil current tapering off as the fet could not handle the current.
Might try a TVS (Transient-voltage-suppression) diode, never used one before.
When I used a simple diode across the coil, it killed all flyback voltage great, but it limited my RPS to something under 10,000. I should look into why that happens, might try adding a resistor in series to see if that helps. 
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 30th, 2019, 04:28 PM
Regarding fet avalanche, I found this application note that explains it well, check out the first figure if interested. https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-ApplicationNote_Some_key_facts_about_avalanche-AN-v01_00-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d462584d1d4a0158ba0210977cde

In most of my pictures, you can see the avalanche clearly, poor low voltage fet taking a beating! lol
Since I avalanche even with 1V applied to the coil (flyback way over 65V), I think when I am pushing 10~15 amps rms and 2+ mil rpm, the repetitive avalanching heats the fet up alot, the heat and the voltage stress finally kill the fet.

I would be curious what the mega inductance newman motor flyback voltage is? Careful with your scope probe rating, make a voltage divider, maybe 100:1 or more.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 31st, 2019, 11:20 AM
Some new coils to try out, its easy to see where I am headed in the next experiment. Currently I am just using 1 pole and got to 3.8 mil. If the new coil setup works, I might try a full H-bridge, and maybe 4 poles down the road. Maybe monday I will test them.

UPDATE, the two coils on the right are complete failures, lol.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on May 31st, 2019, 09:31 PM
I got another idea while driving home, low inductance, high current. My current probe wont fit, maybe make a current transformer. Will try to test Monday.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on June 1st, 2019, 07:51 AM
Quote from --Oz-- on May 30th, 04:28 PM
In most of my pictures, you can see the avalanche clearly, poor low voltage fet taking a beating! lol
Since I avalanche even with 1V applied to the coil (flyback way over 65V), I think when I am pushing 10~15 amps rms and 2+ mil rpm, the repetitive avalanching heats the fet up alot, the heat and the voltage stress finally kill the fet.

I would be curious what the mega inductance newman motor flyback voltage is? Careful with your scope probe rating, make a voltage divider, maybe 100:1 or more.
Wowzer that is some serious stress on those transistors, - just how we like it, or not.... at long as im gentle with one of my trannies, i will ravage the others....  still feel like a nice guy.

hehe with the old newman though, - i did look at the spikes on the scope, - i recall it was pushing 300v, from 40v input, - but i suspect it may have been higher, and i just didnt have the resolution in my cheap 9yo digital scope, - 50mhz in digital is like 1mhz in analog because of the sampling rates, - dave jones did a video on it last week, - i always knew scope sampling rate was not good, but id never setup an experiment specifically too tested it, - and i was surprised too learn how woeful even the high spec new digital scopes are.

anyway speaking of this stuff,- i may a new photocoupler circuit for high speeds too use with my bucking coil transformer, - and newman too eventually.  -  the data sheet says the photocouplers are very slow, - 10us @ 10v 2kohm from ground, - and 3us @ 5v and 100ohm from ground....  which is obviously very slow, but too my supprise, i was able too pull it down a little further, and invert the signal a few times, and get it down too 20ns fall times....  so pretty sharp,   - i must admit i feel smarter than i did yesterday, staring blankly at my desk trying too solve this one  @ 2am. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pds1x_0XXT0
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Matt Watts on June 2nd, 2019, 06:26 PM
You know what might be really cool...?

Build yourself a setup using a high pressure air blast to launch one of these spheres, then chamber it in such a way as to get it spinning 2M RPM just prior to launching it.  I'd love to see what kind of curve ball trajectory this thing travels in.  You may surpass the well-known boomerang.  Or, with a different angle, it might make one heck of a crazy helix.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on June 3rd, 2019, 02:19 AM
bro, or should i say, bra.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 3rd, 2019, 01:26 PM
@ Patrick, i would of thought the mega inductance on the newman would of had a hell of a kickback (flyback).

I am guessing amps and inductance are equal in some way. Example, 10A 10uH will give say 100V CEMF (just a guess), If you lower inductance by 10 and raise amps x10 (100A 1uH) you will get similar CEMF. So even though your in the mA current range, I would guess with your several heneries of inductance, you would get some serious CEMF. Would love to see the voltage waveform across the coil. Ideally you would want a differential probe, but be careful what ever you try with too much voltage smoking your scope probe or your scope.

@Matt, haha, that you be awesome to try!
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 3rd, 2019, 08:06 PM
UPDATE: Low inductance, high current, i built part of it, the fets/caps/coil (1 turn). Its good to 1,000 amps pulsed if fets are kept cool. I am replacing my 16 turn coil with 1 turn (more like a single "U" turn). The only reason its as long as it currently is, so the current probe will fit. My current probe only goes to 50 Amps rms, so i plan on adding a secondary loop and scale it 20x. or maybe I will try a hall effect and calibrate it. Also need to add a 10:1 voltage divider on the drain. Quick testing showed 1V on cap gave 10A, 2V gave 20A and so on, this was with a quick mock up circuit with single fet and small 470uF cap. Drain flyback ring was 50ns period (20Mhz).

FYI, here is a nice inductance calculator https://www.eeweb.com/tools/coil-inductance
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 4th, 2019, 12:14 AM
QUESTION: why is this website "Not Secure"? Most of my friends complain and wont log on this site. What would it take to make it a normal site? Should I just make this its own thread?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on June 4th, 2019, 08:25 AM
Quote from --Oz-- on June 4th, 12:14 AM
QUESTION: why is this website "Not Secure"? Most of my friends complain and wont log on this site. What would it take to make it a normal site? Should I just make this its own thread?
I'm also experiencing this very problem, but fortunately my fellow staff members are über savvy when it comes to handling these kinds of problems, so they'll be checking this out.

No the thread is just fine, just keep posting business as usual :-)
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 5th, 2019, 09:08 AM
@ Patric1, for me to understand your optocoupler speedup circuit i had to redraw it :-D You might want to download a copy for yourself.
Question: is the 3906 (plus diode) section to act as a level sensitive trigger point (and this is where the speed come from)?

I looked up your output transistor, thats an oldie. My buddy in college went to work for national semiconductor, he started testing fets, I asked if he could get me some, he handed me the databook, yep, not datasheet, I just found an online copy, from 37 years ago! http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/national/_dataBooks/1982_National_Transistors_Databook.pdf

I was racing RC cars starting in 1980, in 81 the first electronic speed control came out with FET's. I picked the best high current - low RDSon fet in that databook, the good old IRFZ44 (44A 55V TO-220), i still have quite a few of them.

EDIT, I attached the Databook pdf, in case the link goes away.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on June 5th, 2019, 10:35 AM
Quote from --Oz-- on June 5th, 09:08 AM
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/national/_dataBooks/1982_National_Transistors_Databook.pdf
Very awesome share, many thanks :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on June 5th, 2019, 12:34 PM
Hi Buddy,  - Thankyou, this circuit is working really well for me now, i have made up 3of them on a single board for use with a few projects that require really fast switching....   - -  the rise and fall time is really fast on this circuit diagram simple due too the fact that - the photoisolaters are designed too be pinned too the power rails with 2-3k resistance, (in the datasheet). which delivers a 8v signal, - however in the datasheet, that also recommend a 100ohm biasing resistor, which my circuit is based on.  -   ...   similar too the new signal generator i received from ali express today, the rise and full times look like the learning tower of piza, - ,,, 

but mine is super fast, - basically because it is burning lots of waste energy too tighten up the signal.  .  .. i really like doing this - it was not part of my teachings when i studied electronics, and i never see it done in practice,  - but im convinced its an important ascect of free energy, - because the efficiency of the spikes is directly related too the fall time, -

also please add "10volt zener" too the diode .   - as this is used too bring down a large positive bias , that the opto isolater is not able too,

thanks for this draw up by the way, - its critical infrastructure,  even though my will likely require a little ground balancing untill the 12v regulator is accurate.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: patrick1 on June 5th, 2019, 12:36 PM
hehe i smoked a few 1500v trannies tonight with my fall times, - but making lovely resonant waves,
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 5th, 2019, 03:47 PM
I found this hex schmitt-trigger buffer in the ~6ns transition time, of course its low voltage (~6V) and needs a driver for higher current loads.
https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC7014_Q100.pdf

Regarding the $3 0-150KHz signal generator I bought from AliExpress and posted about, I just looked at rise and fall times on it.
From 5 to 20V input(same as output), rise time was 42ns worse case (36ns typ) and fall times was 21ns, not bad for a couple bucks.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 5th, 2019, 09:43 PM
If you guys ever wanted a good green laser, this is one and only $7 with battery and charger. I have bought about 15 of these sofar, all test from 70 to 95mw, they are pretty strong and low cost https://www.banggood.com/Burning-Laser-303-Green-Laser-PointerLight-Star-Cap-532nm-5mw-p-955849.html?rmmds=flashdeals&ID=228&cur_warehouse=CN
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 6th, 2019, 08:26 PM
Houston, we have a problem, lol. 40A in 1us. :wtf:

I tried a few standard snubbers, RC snubber, RCD (polarized), and straight brute force schottky diode.They do help the flyback voltage, but really only the ring portion, and the first avalanche is not changed much, the straight diode clamps the excessive voltage that is damaging my fets. (technically it's the energy in the avalanche event that heats the fet repeatedly, then finally she blows). The problem is the most effective flyback voltage clamping single diode severely limits my rpm, usually under 1 mil, anyone know why?

FYI:The 37 year old IRFZ44 fet is not ruggedized (taking repetitive avalanche events), like the newer fets IRFZ46 do.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 6th, 2019, 08:48 PM
I Forgot to mention, in another project, I was messing with a brushless hard drive motor with a single drive fet and signal generator. Why, to see if driving this awesome zero play motor can be used with a very low cost controller. This has zero feedback, so acceleration is limited and so is the output power. I am simply driving a phase with the fet. A little playing around and i set to 60Hz, and give it a little spin to kick start the motor., then I slowly ramp up the freq to increase rpm. This is a seagate hard disk drive that I robbed the magnets out of. Its is a 7200 rpm drive, but I used a single simple fet to drive a single phase (really two phases) with zero feedback, I got it to 25,000 rpm, pretty happy with that, ~3.5 times faster than normal 3 phase with brushless motor controller, it was limited mainly by my 20V power supply.I will switch to higher supply voltage next week.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 6th, 2019, 09:13 PM
Quote from Lynx on June 4th, 08:25 AM
I'm also experiencing this very problem, but fortunately my fellow staff members are über savvy when it comes to handling these kinds of problems, so they'll be checking this out.

No the thread is just fine, just keep posting business as usual :-)
Is there any resolution to this issue, I am concerned, friends won't come, please let me know a time frame, thanks.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on June 7th, 2019, 07:56 AM
Should read OK now,.
If not, try closing your browser, google Open Source Energy and open the link duly found, that should give you a "correct" certificate and the site should load just fine :-)
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 8th, 2019, 02:00 PM
25,000 RPM hard disk drive motor, driven by simple single FET and function generator, with limitations.
https://youtu.be/SRk651ThM0k
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Matt Watts on June 8th, 2019, 02:24 PM
That would be quite the control systems engineering challenge to build a micro controller that can detect the state of the motor purely from the current jitter and precisely step up the frequency.  That resonant looking jitter is very interesting.  It's obviously the difference between the mechanical phase of the motor and the electrical phase of the signal generator--I think they call it the slip angle or something similar.  Really cool how it's not what I would have expected though, that it seems to resonate.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 8th, 2019, 09:44 PM
I been flying quadcopters for about 7 years, the first brushless electronic speed control (ESC) where large, heavy, kind of expensive and slow response. they were made for planes where response was not a requirement, as your thro finger is only so fast (turns out its about 60ms with the short throw (45 degree) we use). Also the receiver only output at 60Hz rate.

Then a guy named Simon kirby (SimonK) rewrote the Atmel based assembly code for response for quads. night and day. The main reason is the flight control was running 300Hz PID loop, but the old esc was based on 60Hz, so the SimonK firmware was night and day as it could be updated upto 490Hz (something our fingers cant do, but the flight controller could). Then SK added a huge improvement, called comp_pwm. For those that dont know about Comp_pwm, instead of the CEMF current running through the FET body diode and heating the FET, the FET would be on to conduct the CEMF and this did two things, lower the fet temp but hugely, allows the esc to brake or slow down the motor rpm, before this the esc only had control of accelerating the motor, if it wanted to slow the rpm down it basically let aero drag slow the rpm. Again this was huge for stability of the quad.

Then BLHeli FW came out that was better, then BLHeli_S firmware came out that had a better hardware requirement, this was another night and day, and it accepted 32KHz updates, that our flight controller now output (32KHz gyro read/process/output in less than 32us, times 4 motors). Quad motors got better too, lighter (less than 1/3rd), smaller, more power, faster response and less cost ($10~$14), my quad motors can go from idle rpm (zero thrust setting) to 90% rpm in 110ms (around 32000 rpm change with 5 inch three blade props, full thro my quad draws 1800W 120A). These improvements and flight control hardware, crummy Atmel (8bit 20MHz) to stm32 F1 (32bit 70MHz), to now stm32 F4 (32bit 240MHz) processors and its firmware. The response and stability as freaking awesome now and this all happened in the last ~4 years.

BlackBox recording has revolutionized how we analyze the quads preformance, instead of saying "it feels better/worse" BB logging shows us what is really going on, pretty amazing.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Lynx on June 8th, 2019, 11:53 PM
Thanks for the tech brief Oz :thumbsup:
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 11th, 2019, 01:31 PM
I got my first levitate today, it is finicky, i think I need better everything, lol!
The circuit is ultra simple, I need a better gate drive and much better coil and magnet. I used two little magnets with a tail (lead cut from a capacitor), its job is to stabilize the magnet at the top from flipping over. the current probe really gives great feedback to where the sweet spot is (distance from magnet/hall/coil/voltage applied).
The levitating magnet is circled in red, real crummy picture, trying to hold the hall sensor, get the phone pointed and triggered, and then blur, lol.
Why, this is a baby step to something bigger, yep, talk is cheap. :-D
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 14th, 2019, 01:55 PM
More MagLev today, I was tossing out a dishwasher and I robbed a few items from it. The main water inlet valve looked nice, plus a few other motors/pumps/etc. My first attempt I got it to work, but the coil and fet would get hot, I added a 45A schottky and it was blazing hot. With nothing more than changing the coil, it runs on 21mA. Its more stable, but still not as stable as I would like.
The new coil is maybe an 1" by 1" and is 1.2H and 1KΩ. There is a few things to balance this system, the weight, the magnet strength, coil voltage, sensor position to name a few. Another baby step, lol.

If this small coil has 1.2H, I cant imagine what the newman has. The online calculator I linked works pretty well if you know a few parameters. Maybe you can give it a quick try to estimate the inductance in that huge coil. I was measuring some inductance of my quad motors, if you leave the magnet bell on, it really screws with the inductance numbers.
https://www.eeweb.com/tools/coil-inductance
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 14th, 2019, 09:00 PM
Anyone that has built a maglev, probably knows there is a few things to help stability. The first is adding a tail to the magnet, gravity just pulls is down and this stabilizes the magnet from rotating (x & y axis, not z), I did the same thing (add smaller magnet or some weight). I played with it again and i got it more stable, enough to have a single ball levitate (but sometimes it does start to oscillate and falls, but it is better. I really like I can leave it running for hours with no baking the coil/fet/diode, that was a big improvement.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 17th, 2019, 04:42 PM
The ESC that I use in my quads are awesome and only 10~12 bucks each. 30A on 4S (up to 18V input) and they never fail with the hell i put them through flying. I think its the gate driver is one of the main reasons. So i took a spare esc, removed the SiLabs micro and brought out the 6 input signals (its three half bridge driver), made a configurable interface to my hall sensor, almost done. One of the main benefits I hope is the bidirectional driving will help clamp the BEMF, might just be wishful thinking, lol.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 18th, 2019, 11:37 AM
I forgot to attach the datasheet for the 3 phase brushless motor driver, its converted from chinese.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 20th, 2019, 01:25 PM
The 3 Laws of Science...
1. If it smalls bad, it's chemistry.
2. If it's mushy, it's biology.
3. If it doesn't work, it's physics

A bus station is where a bus stops...
A train station is where a train stops...
On my desk I have a work station...
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 24th, 2019, 12:45 PM
Finding 2mm magnet balls is a bitch, lol. Many on alibaba claim to have them, but when trying to purchase them, they dont have them. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on June 25th, 2019, 08:39 PM
I was going for the low hanging fruit (2mm ball) before venturing into plan B. Plan B has many more technical challenges, many baby steps, so results are going to take longer.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on July 7th, 2019, 09:30 PM
For some insight to my background, I been doing RC cars/planes since late 70's. Here is a 130+mph plane I been flying, at this speed and less than 10 feet away it has its nerves, lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTL52e6OMj4
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: Matt Watts on July 12th, 2019, 07:37 PM
Quote from --Oz-- on June 20th, 01:25 PM
A bus station is where a bus stops...
A train station is where a train stops...
On my desk I have a work station...
:rofl2:

Maybe you need a play station instead.   :-D
Quote from --Oz-- on July 7th, 09:30 PM
Here is a 130+mph plane I been flying, at this speed and less than 10 feet away it has its nerves, lol
No way man.  My poor eyesight would guarantee how that story ends.  I would need to enclose myself in some sort of translucent cargo net.

From watching your quad videos, those things don't exactly crawl either.

I can sure see how you got hooked on this hobby.  Very impressive.
Title: Re: 1.14 Million RPM, 668MPH, 3.64 Million G's and explosion :)
Post by: --Oz-- on July 12th, 2019, 11:10 PM
Thanks. I got hooked on racing rc on-road cars, love the building/tuning/racing/competition for 21 years. I liked planes because of the 3d and you get to fly for hours (slope soaring gliders or combat gliders). When quads came around, they were difficult to fly, but once you learn, they can do about anything you can think of, awesome 3d playground. Picture of some of the planes I fly.

Any updates on the newman motor?