open-source-energy.org
Open - Source - Research => Open-Source Research => Topic started by: ~Russ on July 24th, 2012, 03:49 AM
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www.HydrogenDonations.com
At www.HydrogenDonations.com, we are committed in bringing Stanley Meyer's dream to reality. Stanley Meyer's twin brother, Stephen Meyer, brings over 30 years of experience with hydrogen to our group. Stephen Meyer worked side by side with Stanley Meyer to develop hydrogen production by using frequencies at very low currents.
now that's interesting...
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great
cheer!!
geenee
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Welcome Back Stephen
I would like to extend a welcome to Stephen Meyer
as I know he will visit these pages.
This open source Forum is a group of
Skilled educated people with a like interest which found each other over many years and formed a strong common knowledge of
Yours and Stans Amazing achievements and techniques enough so to rebuild alot of it pretty close to exact to example and show others.
We are here to serve you and your team
call on us and use this forum of the strongest Meyers suporters on the planet to spread the word and cement the legacy of Knowledge sharing to our
trades people globally.
Go get 'em Stephen.
Dan.Phuket
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Welcome Back Stephen
I would like to extend a welcome to Stephen Meyer
as I know he will visit these pages.
This open source Forum is a group of
Skilled educated people with a like interest which found each other over many years and formed a strong common knowledge of
Yours and Stans Amazing achievements and techniques enough so to rebuild alot of it pretty close to exact to example and show others.
We are here to serve you and your team
call on us and use this forum of the strongest Meyers suporters on the planet to spread the word and cement the legacy of Knowledge sharing to our
trades people globally.
Go get 'em Stephen.
Dan.Phuket
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Stephen Meyer is back then, eh! Wonder where he's been all this time? Not busy getting rich, that's for sure. :s
Not really wanting to be the first negative post... but I will, that has got to be one of the most unprofessional videos I've seen. And what the heck is going on with the audio? Sounds like it was filmed at a geese farm!
I see absolutely nothing to get excited about here, especially given the first thing they are doing is asking for donations. CAUTION is key here. Remember Fast Freddy and his antics - he relieved a lot of people of their money before he was outed for the fraud he was. If they too go on to play the religion card, then alarm bells should start ringing.
Please, please, please, before you decide to throw any money at this let them at least prove themselves, because - Stephen Meyer or not - ultimately they may know no more about the workings of Stan's WFC devices than you or I.
Just being realistic.
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Stephen Meyer is back then, eh! Wonder where he's been all this time? Not busy getting rich, that's for sure. :s
Not really wanting to be the first negative post... but I will, that has got to be one of the most unprofessional videos I've seen. And what the heck is going on with the audio? Sounds like it was filmed at a geese farm!
I see absolutely nothing to get excited about here, especially given the first thing they are doing is asking for donations. CAUTION is key here. Remember Fast Freddy and his antics - he relieved a lot of people of their money before he was outed for the fraud he was. If they too go on to play the religion card, then alarm bells should start ringing.
Please, please, please, before you decide to throw any money at this let them at least prove themselves, because - Stephen Meyer or not - ultimately they may know no more about the workings of Stan's WFC devices than you or I.
Just being realistic.
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It is hard to tell if that really is Stephen. I'm skeptical about the donation thing too. If it is really him he would make a bigger difference if he would work with us in an open source manner. Maybe then people would be more willing to donate to their cause.
Nate
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One question. Why didn't Stephen continue Stands work? Last I heard he was trying to sell hydrogen refueling stations. Now I'm assuming HHO for diesel. What's next? HHO welders?
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It is hard to tell if that really is Stephen. I'm skeptical about the donation thing too. If it is really him he would make a bigger difference if he would work with us in an open source manner. Maybe then people would be more willing to donate to their cause.
Nate
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Last i heard he was sick and unable to talk on the phone. I have always wondered why none of the people involved with Stan has never tried to live out his dream. You would think his sons, Stephen, and his machinists the people that worked close to him would have at least have something to say, But none of these people has spoke out in any way what so evere since his death. If it had been my dad i would have lived out his dream and hard work come hell or high water if i had worked close to him on something like this.
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Stephen Meyer is back then, eh! Wonder where he's been all this time? Not busy getting rich, that's for sure. :s
Not really wanting to be the first negative post... but I will, that has got to be one of the most unprofessional videos I've seen. And what the heck is going on with the audio? Sounds like it was filmed at a geese farm!
I see absolutely nothing to get excited about here, especially given the first thing they are doing is asking for donations. CAUTION is key here. Remember Fast Freddy and his antics - he relieved a lot of people of their money before he was outed for the fraud he was. If they too go on to play the religion card, then alarm bells should start ringing.
Please, please, please, before you decide to throw any money at this let them at least prove themselves, because - Stephen Meyer or not - ultimately they may know no more about the workings of Stan's WFC devices than you or I.
Just being realistic.
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All, grate answers , the good bad and ugly.
as Dan stated i also welcome Steven,
i also think that one should not put any money in directions that seem fishy.
the information i passed along was to inform and one will need to do there own research.
but i also agree that if he wants stans deem to live on, we must share the nonage and open and free so we can carry it on.
i guess time will tell and if enough people email them and tell them about what we are doing and the people that are here...
mabey something will happen?
~Russ
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Common guys you are too sceptical...when you saw stephen last time ?in the video...new energy sources i presume,people get old..i atached a shot from that video and the recent one...i think its the same person :look at his nouse,and the line of he's cheek aroun the mouth...the only difference is that it is much older now...
and in another picture
Try to listen to his voice from minute 1:50 ignoring the distorsions and try to listen to his voice from the older video min 1:05
The voices has the same patern...he is talking like he has his nouse ''clogged''...listen also Sterling allan interview....
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I've juste one question : Where is now all Stan's stuff, all VIC circuit, all transformers.....
That stuff can help us to replicate and understand the WFC thecnology.
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I've juste one question : Where is now all Stan's stuff, all VIC circuit, all transformers.....
That stuff can help us to replicate and understand the WFC thecnology.
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I've juste one question : Where is now all Stan's stuff, all VIC circuit, all transformers.....
That stuff can help us to replicate and understand the WFC thecnology.
these people bought it...
~Russ
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I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
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I in fact do think that is Stephen Meyer in the video - not that it means diddly-squat.
However, I find their motives questionable. First impression I get is that they just want other people to pay for their tinkering - and if that tinkering involves starting from scratch, then you might as well make donations to myself or others that have been in this game for years, and probably know more about the subject.
I personally think that they are playing the Stephen Meyer card simply in order to try to increase donations, as if his name gives them credibility. If Stephen has not already replicated Stan's work, then he never will.
They do not have anything new, and if they did, as Sharky has pointed out, they would be looking for investors, not donations. All smells very fishy to me!
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I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
i'm not in a hurry... lol go with the flow, see where it takes us.
im sure he aware of others out there like me/tony/max/the orion project/ all the others out there , its kinda hard to miss when its your brother...
~Russ
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I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
2)the man rebuilt a jet engine and,was taking part in the development of the transistor in the 70's....so...think for yourself...
3)I don't think so...
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The red flag for me is that......nothing is presented in the video to give grounds to donate to.
As an example, http://www.aquafuelinc.com/systems.html have a hho system for trucks for fuel consumption reduction http://www.aquafuelinc.com/gallery.html
What would be useful to know is what is the direction the stephen meyer group intend to go, fuel consumption reduction or fuel replacement...
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I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
2)the man rebuilt a jet engine and,was taking part in the development of the transistor in the 70's....so...think for yourself...
3)I don't think so...
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I would also have to agree with Sharky and Farrah.
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+1 Sharky . I'm not convinced that Steven knows of any "secrets" that would unlock the research done here and around the world ..and the fact that he is publicly asking for money convinces me even less... I truly believe that the only way the human race will unlock and distribute this technology is though open source because it will be one of us that has a breakthrough... thanks to Stans inspiration !!
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I deleted my last post out of respect for Stephen (just in case its really him :)). I had just finished watching the Andrija Puharich lecture video where he was explaining his circuit (but said he wasn't going to disclose the fine details), and it made me think how many people have gone to the grave with vital information for mankind. Im hoping that Stephen doesn't do that, because I believe he knows Exactly how Stan's (and HIS) system worked. In the Meyer videos Stephen sure looked like he knew as he explained the electronics. I also enjoyed listening to the 6 interviews, he is a Very knowledgable guy! One thing for sure is we will all get the information we need in Gods time!!
Blessings to all who are working so hard!
Donny
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I do have 1 question but first it sounds to me like they are trying to sell and create a HHO booster system. Nothing that they said indicated that they are making a vehicle run off of pure HHO. What do you guys think? Booster systems? If it is booster systems there have been thousands of people that have built installed and tested them. Making a vehicle run completely off of fractured is where it needs to go now. I have listen to the Stephen Meyers interviews many times I personally don't think the guy sounds like Stephen nor do I think it looks like him. Time will tell, truth always comes out over time.
Please let me know what you guys think!
Tyson
HHO4LIFE
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I do have 1 question but first it sounds to me like they are trying to sell and create a HHO booster system. Nothing that they said indicated that they are making a vehicle run off of pure HHO. What do you guys think? Tyson
HHO4LIFE
I'm very suspicious about the whole thing. I find it quite worrying that their website is pushing for donations all the time - I mean who would name their website, 'HydrogenDonations'? Furthermore, I find it quite a concern - if not offensive - that the only thing up and running on their website are the DONATION buttons!
Terrible quality and ancient videos... what are they all about. If they can't do any better than that there is something seriously amiss.
I'll wait patiently to be proved wrong, but I suspect I'll be waiting a long time. All I see is a few cowboys asking for money for nothing!
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I do have 1 question but first it sounds to me like they are trying to sell and create a HHO booster system. Nothing that they said indicated that they are making a vehicle run off of pure HHO. What do you guys think? Tyson
HHO4LIFE
I'm very suspicious about the whole thing. I find it quite worrying that their website is pushing for donations all the time - I mean who would name their website, 'HydrogenDonations'? Furthermore, I find it quite a concern - if not offensive - that the only thing up and running on their website are the DONATION buttons!
Terrible quality and ancient videos... what are they all about. If they can't do any better than that there is something seriously amiss.
I'll wait patiently to be proved wrong, but I suspect I'll be waiting a long time. All I see is a few cowboys asking for money for nothing!
first of all, steve is a business man. he wants paid and will not give you or anyone , anything.
second, i called them up. robert talked to me for some time. they are building semi truck boosters. he said they will not share info. the system is incased in plastic and has a self destruct, as well as lojack. LOL
he said the system is going on trucks for his company and one truck from another company, someone he trust.
i asked how much are you selling the system on your friends truck?
he said less then 20k. i said great, i will write you a check for 20k.
he would not sell me one. said he would ask steve if he could sell me one.
he did say that the system makes well over 20 lpm
nothin is free guys.
steve meyer is a business man
dont think for a min that he will give you the secret for nothing.
in fact years ago he said for 10m dollars he would tell the secrets.
then he went to work for 2 other companies , that i know of, dealing with quantom physics HHO.............. dead ends....
quad city has the buggy , and it dont run, and they wont talk about it
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I do have 1 question but first it sounds to me like they are trying to sell and create a HHO booster system. Nothing that they said indicated that they are making a vehicle run off of pure HHO. What do you guys think? Tyson
HHO4LIFE
I'm very suspicious about the whole thing. I find it quite worrying that their website is pushing for donations all the time - I mean who would name their website, 'HydrogenDonations'? Furthermore, I find it quite a concern - if not offensive - that the only thing up and running on their website are the DONATION buttons!
Terrible quality and ancient videos... what are they all about. If they can't do any better than that there is something seriously amiss.
I'll wait patiently to be proved wrong, but I suspect I'll be waiting a long time. All I see is a few cowboys asking for money for nothing!
first of all, steve is a business man. he wants paid and will not give you or anyone , anything.
second, i called them up. robert talked to me for some time. they are building semi truck boosters. he said they will not share info. the system is incased in plastic and has a self destruct, as well as lojack. LOL
he said the system is going on trucks for his company and one truck from another company, someone he trust.
i asked how much are you selling the system on your friends truck?
he said less then 20k. i said great, i will write you a check for 20k.
he would not sell me one. said he would ask steve if he could sell me one.
he did say that the system makes well over 20 lpm
nothin is free guys.
steve meyer is a business man
dont think for a min that he will give you the secret for nothing.
in fact years ago he said for 10m dollars he would tell the secrets.
then he went to work for 2 other companies , that i know of, dealing with quantom physics HHO.............. dead ends....
quad city has the buggy , and it dont run, and they wont talk about it
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you guys!
first of all, steve is a business man. he wants paid and will not give you or anyone , anything.
second, i called them up. robert talked to me for some time. they are building semi truck boosters. he said they will not share info. the system is incased in plastic and has a self destruct, as well as lojack. LOL
he said the system is going on trucks for his company and one truck from another company, someone he trust.
i asked how much are you selling the system on your friends truck?
he said less then 20k. i said great, i will write you a check for 20k.
he would not sell me one. said he would ask steve if he could sell me one.
he did say that the system makes well over 20 lpm
nothin is free guys.
steve meyer is a business man
dont think for a min that he will give you the secret for nothing.
in fact years ago he said for 10m dollars he would tell the secrets.
then he went to work for 2 other companies , that i know of, dealing with quantom physics HHO.............. dead ends....
quad city has the buggy , and it dont run, and they wont talk about it
So how does this work then? They are not prepared to share or show anything... but want people to donate money to get their business going? C'mon, this has all the classic signs of an outright scam.
$20K for a hydrogen booster... are they serious? 20lpm is not a great amount and the figure itself means nothing unless accompanied by some additional info. I assume that you were just joking about buying one from them, because no one in their right mind would cough up $20K based on one rather pathetic video!!
Sounds like it will be simple Faraday electrolysers they will be producing and nothing more, if they even do that. Same sort of thing as Bob Potchen of The Cell.
You seem to be looking at this through rose-tinted glasses - take them off and look at their website again. Then ask yourself, 'would a real businessman or professional engineer be happy with the quality of those videos if starting up a legitimate business venture?'.
It's quite laughable!
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you guys!
first of all, steve is a business man. he wants paid and will not give you or anyone , anything.
second, i called them up. robert talked to me for some time. they are building semi truck boosters. he said they will not share info. the system is incased in plastic and has a self destruct, as well as lojack. LOL
he said the system is going on trucks for his company and one truck from another company, someone he trust.
i asked how much are you selling the system on your friends truck?
he said less then 20k. i said great, i will write you a check for 20k.
he would not sell me one. said he would ask steve if he could sell me one.
he did say that the system makes well over 20 lpm
nothin is free guys.
steve meyer is a business man
dont think for a min that he will give you the secret for nothing.
in fact years ago he said for 10m dollars he would tell the secrets.
then he went to work for 2 other companies , that i know of, dealing with quantom physics HHO.............. dead ends....
quad city has the buggy , and it dont run, and they wont talk about it
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I agree with Farrah Day.
I think we're better off working together on this forum.
And Farrah Day,
Thanks for your contributions over at energetic forum
on my 'Preventing Electrolysis' thread a while back. They opened my
eyes to certain things that I didn't realize before.
Btw, great quote.
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All the more reasons why we should just push ahead and discover this technology for ourselves and be open sourced about it.:D
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I agree with Farrah Day.
I think we're better off working together on this forum.
And Farrah Day,
Thanks for your contributions over at energetic forum
on my 'Preventing Electrolysis' thread a while back. They opened my
eyes to certain things that I didn't realize before.
Btw, great quote.
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I agree with Farrah Day.
I think we're better off working together on this forum.
And Farrah Day,
Thanks for your contributions over at energetic forum
on my 'Preventing Electrolysis' thread a while back. They opened my
eyes to certain things that I didn't realize before.
Btw, great quote.
anyone just asking for donations and just talk, talk , talk.....
scammers looking for donations.
on the other note
yes i would pay them their 20k if the produced a working booster that would double the mpg of a semi
let me see it work before i sign the check
after all if they were fer real, real money buys real work.
seeing as there was no sale...........
you are correct in saying that anyone begging for donations and just make a crappy vid, is most likely just like that crook fast freddy
i know you remember him....
video of nothing and donate donate, praise GOD
LOL
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Hi
Every One
Remember we have made amazing progress and we are all continuing.
We are a powerful force, when it some to the Meyers Boys knowledge .
It is what we give and not want we receive that matters.
We all should be inviting Stephen to use our resources skills and
methods of sharing to get it out faster and up and open source.
As Creating a knowledge base and Legacy is some thing we all believe in.
Coaching and slight corrections to us could help us alot,
or we just continue to do it aggressively
as we have done already in forums and threads.
Stephen has his own issues and directions.
We have our forum of die hard enthusiasts
if he decides to comment and coach our forums we would be blessed
and I believe the out come would be good for all in our open source way.
Either ways we have smart brains at work already
lets get on with it.
and focus on threads we have open where ever we can to complete and over come what we have
Dan
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Hi
Every One
Remember we have made amazing progress and we are all continuing.
We are a powerful force, when it some to the Meyers Boys knowledge .
It is what we give and not want we receive that matters.
We all should be inviting Stephen to use our resources skills and
methods of sharing to get it out faster and up and open source.
As Creating a knowledge base and Legacy is some thing we all believe in.
Coaching and slight corrections to us could help us alot,
or we just continue to do it aggressively
as we have done already in forums and threads.
Stephen has his own issues and directions.
We have our forum of die hard enthusiasts
if he decides to comment and coach our forums we would be blessed
and I believe the out come would be good for all in our open source way.
Either ways we have smart brains at work already
lets get on with it.
and focus on threads we have open where ever we can to complete and over come what we have
Dan
!
~Russ
-
Hi
Every One
Remember we have made amazing progress and we are all continuing.
We are a powerful force, when it some to the Meyers Boys knowledge .
It is what we give and not want we receive that matters.
We all should be inviting Stephen to use our resources skills and
methods of sharing to get it out faster and up and open source.
As Creating a knowledge base and Legacy is some thing we all believe in.
Coaching and slight corrections to us could help us alot,
or we just continue to do it aggressively
as we have done already in forums and threads.
Stephen has his own issues and directions.
We have our forum of die hard enthusiasts
if he decides to comment and coach our forums we would be blessed
and I believe the out come would be good for all in our open source way.
Either ways we have smart brains at work already
lets get on with it.
and focus on threads we have open where ever we can to complete and over come what we have
Dan
!
~Russ
-
Hi
Every One
Remember we have made amazing progress and we are all continuing.
We are a powerful force, when it some to the Meyers Boys knowledge .
It is what we give and not want we receive that matters.
We all should be inviting Stephen to use our resources skills and
methods of sharing to get it out faster and up and open source.
As Creating a knowledge base and Legacy is some thing we all believe in.
Coaching and slight corrections to us could help us alot,
or we just continue to do it aggressively
as we have done already in forums and threads.
Stephen has his own issues and directions.
We have our forum of die hard enthusiasts
if he decides to comment and coach our forums we would be blessed
and I believe the out come would be good for all in our open source way.
Either ways we have smart brains at work already
lets get on with it.
and focus on threads we have open where ever we can to complete and over come what we have
Dan
Br,
Webmug
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History has shown that bringing this commercially to market is impossible. Therefor the try of Stephen and friends will be, as sad as it may be, in vane as well. The only way to bring this tech forward is through open source, make it go viral and then no government or company will be able to stop it.
Those are wise words, Sir.
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History has shown that bringing this commercially to market is impossible. Therefor the try of Stephen and friends will be, as sad as it may be, in vane as well. The only way to bring this tech forward is through open source, make it go viral and then no government or company will be able to stop it.
Those are wise words, Sir.
The video has been deleted!!
Let see what happens with my translated version...
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I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
I was involved with Stan and made numerous visits to his lab since 1986.
I was one of one of about 350 original purchasers of a Dearlership for WFC.
I should start a thread about my experience but for now I will try to answer some of the questions I see in these threads.
First, I am not an engineer or electronics specialist by any means but after hours and years talking with Stan and posting in the sci.energy.hydrogen Newsgroup (Usenet now Google Groups) I am pretty well versed in much of the Water Fuel Cell tech base. Do a search for H2OPWRD@aol.com, JW to see my prodigious posting and arguing on Stan's behalf against the naysayers since 1997.
As to Stephen's involvement or non-involvement in bring out the technology after Stan's death....
I spoke to him on the phone some months after Stan's death and this is what he told me. "I have been given a Cease and Desist order to not share any of my knowledge about the tech base from the heirs."
At that time the controlling heir was Stan's wife Marilyn. She was however being "coached" by Dr. Russel Fowler and some of Stan's other associates in these matters as they tried to figure out their steps in bringing out the technology. As you know their efforts were an utter failure.
At this time I had past correspondence with a Swede named Ted Zittergren who first posted the "secret" to Stan's basic circuit which I had been trying to get the "scientists" in the newsgroup to discern. You can find the original thread with a search but here is most of that original post.
Subject: Re: Stanley Meyer's Court Case
From: "Ted Zettergren"
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:59:28 +0100
John Feiereisen skrev i meddelandet <756atu$mkn$1@client2.news.psi.net>...
>For those of you who are unfamiliar, Stanley Meyer patented some
>equipment for fueling an IC engine with hydrogen. In addition to this
>legitimate work, he claimed to be able decompose water into hydrogen
>and oxygen with >100% thermal efficiency, thereby inventing a
>"water-powered car". He sold "marketing rights" for this technology
>to unsuspecting people, one of whom is a regular reader of s.e.h.
>
>Back a couple years, a couple of his investors got wise to his scam
>and took him to court, where Meyer was found guilty of "gross and
>egregious fraud" and ordered to repay those 'investors'. As far as I
>know, those were the only 'investors' who ever recouped their
>'investment'. Meyer died earlier this year and his followers insist
>he was poisoned (all good perpetual motion inventors are stalked by
>THE CONSPIRACY).
>
>After being found guilty of fraud, Meyer sent a long rambling letter
>to the remainder of his 'investors', obviously hoping to ward off a
>spate of trials which would have drained him of his ill-gotten gains.
>It was replete with conspiracy paranoia and claimed that a recording
>device in the courtroom was turned off so the judge (obviously working
>under the direction of THE CONSPIRACY) could railroad Meyer into an
>unjust guilty verdict.
>
>As far as I know, Meyer's home base was Grove City, Ohio, and the
>court case took place in Shelby county, Ohio. I am going to be
>passing through Ohio in a couple weeks and Grove City is but 3 miles
>off my planned route. I can pass through Shelby county with only
>minor adjustment of my planned route through Indiana. I figured I'd
>stop in at the courthouse and see if I can pick up copies of the
>records of the trial.
>
>Does anybody know precisely where and when the trial took place?
>City, county, etc., date(s)??? Possibly an official case name?
>
>Thanks.
>
VERY GOOD Mr. Feiereisen
Take a copy of the tape fromx that trial and put it on the Real Player
so we all can listen to what really happened in the Court.
The most interesting is to hear what the WFC Expert Witnesses and
Electrical Engineer Mathias Johanson has to say.
The first part of the trial started on Thursday/Friday, 1/2 February
1996 before Judge William Corzine III at the Common Pleas Court,
Chillicothe, Ohio.
By the way. If you like to do some experiment, try this.
AT FIRST:
You must know the difference between a chemical reaction and a
nuclear reaction. A lot of people don't understand that but they like
to argue a lot in every NG on Internet.
In a chemical reaction you need a lot of current and some salt for
making the water conductive.
In a nuclear reaction you don't need any current at all, only high
voltage. How much current you need in a real application depends
on how clean your water is. As cleaner as better.
Stanley Meyers method's have NOTHING to do with chemical
reactions.
HOW TO?
As a guide, you need US Patent 4,936,961 ref. figure 1 to 3F.
If you read something about magical frequencyis, forget that.
It works fine with 10KHz or something else if you preferred.
Use 50% duty cycle. BUT! the frequency will be doubled in the
step up circuit and that's the frequency the Water-Cell will work
with. The components must resist at least 2000V.
The Water-Cell is very simple. Take a lot of stainless steel tubes
with the inner diameter of the bigger tube 3mm bigger than the outer
diameter of the inner tube. From now you must look at this
Water-Cell as a capacitor with water as dilectricum.
The Water-Cell and the INDUCTOR will resonate at a specific
frequency. It's a normal RC-circuit.
Now the most important: The Water-Cell/Inductor frequency and
the doubled frequency from the generator must be exactly the
same. A special condition exists in a L/C Circuit, when it is
energized at a frequency at which the inductive reactance is equal
to the capacitive reactance, XL = XC.
Adjust the voltage peak level to reach a maximum hydrogen/oxygen
producing with a minimum of current using. If you earlier make
hydrogen with the electrolysis method with a lot of current,
this experiment will really surprise you.
For even less current you can make some experiment with a
centertapped puls-transformer.
Have a nice trip to Ohio!
Ted!
At the time of my conversation with Ted, Tad Johnson had been my best successful protege' in building a working circuit. I was trying to get Stephen to give us some hints about circuits and his question to me was "What are you going to do with it?"
At this point I hadn't really thought about it because my prime motivation was just to have a working unit to prove to myself and all the "Newsgroup" naysayers that I had a replication on the bench.
At this point Stephen said, "I won't talk to anyone or help without two million dollars in an escrow."
Well, I didn't have that kind of cash laying around so it ended there.
As many of you know Tad was in a few watepowered forums and I haven't heard from him in years since we lost contact.
I can't say much else about this issue.
I will try to read more and post more elsewhere.
I see some great work out there and still do what I can to get others going and teaching the tech basic from my rafts of information.
Those WFC Injector drawings that were brought to light from artinvegas in another forum due to my efforts in the groups in 2008 and my association with the person who had them for ten years before he gave them to artinvegas.
All for now,
Good luck,
Cheers,
JP
-
I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
I was involved with Stan and made numerous visits to his lab since 1986.
I was one of one of about 350 original purchasers of a Dearlership for WFC.
I should start a thread about my experience but for now I will try to answer some of the questions I see in these threads.
First, I am not an engineer or electronics specialist by any means but after hours and years talking with Stan and posting in the sci.energy.hydrogen Newsgroup (Usenet now Google Groups) I am pretty well versed in much of the Water Fuel Cell tech base. Do a search for H2OPWRD@aol.com, JW to see my prodigious posting and arguing on Stan's behalf against the naysayers since 1997.
As to Stephen's involvement or non-involvement in bring out the technology after Stan's death....
I spoke to him on the phone some months after Stan's death and this is what he told me. "I have been given a Cease and Desist order to not share any of my knowledge about the tech base from the heirs."
At that time the controlling heir was Stan's wife Marilyn. She was however being "coached" by Dr. Russel Fowler and some of Stan's other associates in these matters as they tried to figure out their steps in bringing out the technology. As you know their efforts were an utter failure.
At this time I had past correspondence with a Swede named Ted Zittergren who first posted the "secret" to Stan's basic circuit which I had been trying to get the "scientists" in the newsgroup to discern. You can find the original thread with a search but here is most of that original post.
Subject: Re: Stanley Meyer's Court Case
From: "Ted Zettergren"
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:59:28 +0100
John Feiereisen skrev i meddelandet <756atu$mkn$1@client2.news.psi.net>...
>For those of you who are unfamiliar, Stanley Meyer patented some
>equipment for fueling an IC engine with hydrogen. In addition to this
>legitimate work, he claimed to be able decompose water into hydrogen
>and oxygen with >100% thermal efficiency, thereby inventing a
>"water-powered car". He sold "marketing rights" for this technology
>to unsuspecting people, one of whom is a regular reader of s.e.h.
>
>Back a couple years, a couple of his investors got wise to his scam
>and took him to court, where Meyer was found guilty of "gross and
>egregious fraud" and ordered to repay those 'investors'. As far as I
>know, those were the only 'investors' who ever recouped their
>'investment'. Meyer died earlier this year and his followers insist
>he was poisoned (all good perpetual motion inventors are stalked by
>THE CONSPIRACY).
>
>After being found guilty of fraud, Meyer sent a long rambling letter
>to the remainder of his 'investors', obviously hoping to ward off a
>spate of trials which would have drained him of his ill-gotten gains.
>It was replete with conspiracy paranoia and claimed that a recording
>device in the courtroom was turned off so the judge (obviously working
>under the direction of THE CONSPIRACY) could railroad Meyer into an
>unjust guilty verdict.
>
>As far as I know, Meyer's home base was Grove City, Ohio, and the
>court case took place in Shelby county, Ohio. I am going to be
>passing through Ohio in a couple weeks and Grove City is but 3 miles
>off my planned route. I can pass through Shelby county with only
>minor adjustment of my planned route through Indiana. I figured I'd
>stop in at the courthouse and see if I can pick up copies of the
>records of the trial.
>
>Does anybody know precisely where and when the trial took place?
>City, county, etc., date(s)??? Possibly an official case name?
>
>Thanks.
>
VERY GOOD Mr. Feiereisen
Take a copy of the tape fromx that trial and put it on the Real Player
so we all can listen to what really happened in the Court.
The most interesting is to hear what the WFC Expert Witnesses and
Electrical Engineer Mathias Johanson has to say.
The first part of the trial started on Thursday/Friday, 1/2 February
1996 before Judge William Corzine III at the Common Pleas Court,
Chillicothe, Ohio.
By the way. If you like to do some experiment, try this.
AT FIRST:
You must know the difference between a chemical reaction and a
nuclear reaction. A lot of people don't understand that but they like
to argue a lot in every NG on Internet.
In a chemical reaction you need a lot of current and some salt for
making the water conductive.
In a nuclear reaction you don't need any current at all, only high
voltage. How much current you need in a real application depends
on how clean your water is. As cleaner as better.
Stanley Meyers method's have NOTHING to do with chemical
reactions.
HOW TO?
As a guide, you need US Patent 4,936,961 ref. figure 1 to 3F.
If you read something about magical frequencyis, forget that.
It works fine with 10KHz or something else if you preferred.
Use 50% duty cycle. BUT! the frequency will be doubled in the
step up circuit and that's the frequency the Water-Cell will work
with. The components must resist at least 2000V.
The Water-Cell is very simple. Take a lot of stainless steel tubes
with the inner diameter of the bigger tube 3mm bigger than the outer
diameter of the inner tube. From now you must look at this
Water-Cell as a capacitor with water as dilectricum.
The Water-Cell and the INDUCTOR will resonate at a specific
frequency. It's a normal RC-circuit.
Now the most important: The Water-Cell/Inductor frequency and
the doubled frequency from the generator must be exactly the
same. A special condition exists in a L/C Circuit, when it is
energized at a frequency at which the inductive reactance is equal
to the capacitive reactance, XL = XC.
Adjust the voltage peak level to reach a maximum hydrogen/oxygen
producing with a minimum of current using. If you earlier make
hydrogen with the electrolysis method with a lot of current,
this experiment will really surprise you.
For even less current you can make some experiment with a
centertapped puls-transformer.
Have a nice trip to Ohio!
Ted!
At the time of my conversation with Ted, Tad Johnson had been my best successful protege' in building a working circuit. I was trying to get Stephen to give us some hints about circuits and his question to me was "What are you going to do with it?"
At this point I hadn't really thought about it because my prime motivation was just to have a working unit to prove to myself and all the "Newsgroup" naysayers that I had a replication on the bench.
At this point Stephen said, "I won't talk to anyone or help without two million dollars in an escrow."
Well, I didn't have that kind of cash laying around so it ended there.
As many of you know Tad was in a few watepowered forums and I haven't heard from him in years since we lost contact.
I can't say much else about this issue.
I will try to read more and post more elsewhere.
I see some great work out there and still do what I can to get others going and teaching the tech basic from my rafts of information.
Those WFC Injector drawings that were brought to light from artinvegas in another forum due to my efforts in the groups in 2008 and my association with the person who had them for ten years before he gave them to artinvegas.
All for now,
Good luck,
Cheers,
JP
-
I always wondered why Stephen did not take over after Stans death and bring the tech to market? He has been very actively involved in all, he even was the one that designed the electronics. That leaves three possibilities:
1) even Stephen was not completely aware of the exact workings of the WFC tech, by now we know that there is no magic in the electronics so we and Stephen must be missing something else! Otherwise he would have brought it to market a long time ago
2) The science behind the WFC tech is to complicated even for Stephen to understand it?
3) the WFC tech is a fraud (or at least part of it)
Anyway, as others already indicated, .... people asking for money/donations without any clear indication or prove on what the money will be used for is a RED FLAG. If their intentions are good and they want to bring the tech to market for the benefit of the world they should join us or any other group with the same intentions. If they refuse that their only intention is their own benefit, ... in that case they should search for an investor and not ask for donations!
Russ have you contacted them about their intentions?
Hello One and All,
I was involved with Stan and made numerous visits to his lab since 1986.
I was one of one of about 350 original purchasers of a Dearlership for WFC:
Added for the record:
for which I gave a $5,000 deposit with a balance owing of $45,000. The balance was to be paid out of unit sales over a defined period. I spent most of my time discussing business structure and promotion of Water Fuel Cell rather than technical component things with Stan. I didn't know a "tesla coil"/RCC from a diode, a Faraday from an oscillator or a Joule from a Coulume. Everyone last one of "us" and thousands more who only knew of Stan and his tech base spent many years waiting for "patents to go into issuance," "pre-engineering," "engineering," and "testing." All this in between his constant travels to the third world, Sweden, and England, as those of which I know. Christ, he had Admiral Tony Griffith from the Royal Navel Architects on board. He new Meyer's patents were proof of the processes. It was and still is a huge battle in having "Water Powered Anything" as a common occurrence.
I should start a thread about my experience but for now I will try to answer some of the questions I see in these threads.
First, I am not an engineer or electronics specialist by any means but after hours and years talking with Stan and posting in the sci.energy.hydrogen Newsgroup (Usenet now Google Groups) I am pretty well versed in much of the Water Fuel Cell tech base. Do a search for H2OPWRD@aol.com, JW to see my prodigious posting and arguing on Stan's behalf against the naysayers since 1997.
I will try to read more and post more elsewhere.
I see some great work out there and still do what I can to get others going and teaching the tech basics from my rafts of information including most of the prominent Meyer devoted websites.
Those WFC Injector drawings that were brought to light from artinvegas in another forum due to my efforts in the groups in 2008 and my association with the person who had them for ten years before he gave them to artinvegas.
All for now,
Good luck,
Cheers,
JP
As I said Jeff, I am not an electronics specialist or "scientist" but have a layman's understanding of Electrical Polarization and the Hydrogen Fracturing Process and learned much from reading other experimenter's posts on many forums and sci.energy.hydrogen.
I am only helpful in getting people to look at the technology in a way they are not familiar because of their ingrained paradigm.
I as one of the first to discern and post (for which I was summarily flamed from here to hell) that VOLTAGE IS A CATALYST in Meyer's processes.
Stan NEVER said "perpetual motion." Stan always said, "You can't have perpetual motion because the device hardware will eventually break."
You always have to prime the system. You don't get something for nothing but the "hardware" captures this ball of "natural water" that has energy in it that you can use against it to make it come apart. "Resonance" is like a sound just like the one that "breaks glass," and Stephen and Stan just happen to notice that it was some "circuit' was doing the same thing to water in what appeared to be a prodigious rate.
As near as I can tell from Tesla, Keely, and the others the "resonance" of the coils magnetic field, the dielectric field and the rest of the circuit, taps into the vacuum and allows us to use it under controlled means. What actually "resonates" and makes the water come apart? My best guess is it is a "dielectric field" that resonates and disrupts the electron's orbits under extreme "electrical stress" ie: high voltage at high frequencies under amp restriction." Stan said, "It's all about the dielectric constant of water."
As to building circuits and VICs I have been depending on those who have that knowledge. I did get all the info for my tech to wind my 8xa RCC per the patent specs.
All I have been doing over the years is pointing those interested in the direction of successful experimenters and their explanations of what is happening in the circuits.
I am currently building a 8xa circuit based Water Fuel Cell (complete board "ready to go" as a free courtesy of stansdream.com) as exactly replicating Stan's 9 tube demonstration cell, on which I placed my hands many times, as I am able. Even with the free board I have spent almost $2,000 with discount machining as well. I have a tech man who has a Masters in Electrical Engineering to assist in testing.
When this cell is performing as we expect I plan to use kickstarter.com to raise $30,000 to have a Major University write a Lab Certification paper which is what the "scientific community" has been screaming for for over 25 years. This hopefully will bring the attention to Stan's work that it deserves and they can start teaching it in schools. This should also clear Stan's name somewhat and maybe Wikipedia will change their tune regarding Meyer since NO ONE considers his patents as scientific proof even though he presented his cells for Official Review under Sec. 114 of the PTO.
35 U.S.C. 114 Models, specimens.
"The Commissioner may require the applicant to furnish a model of
convenient size to exhibit advantageously the several parts of his
invention. When the invention relates to a composition of matter, the
Commissioner may require the applicant to furnish specimens or
ingredients for the purpose of inspection or experiment."
If you look at Wiki on Meyer you will see the revisions I tried to make which were summarily dismissed because "I was an eye witness." Go figure.
At this point I am depending on Russ, Alex Petty, T. Woodside, Josh, Ed Mitchel and others to guide me in producing a cell that will be worth the paper written about it. Thank God for the Internet and anyone who bothers to turn a coil and see this process.
In all my endeavors with Stan I never anticipated that I would be the one sitting here trying to raise money to get an "Official" paper written to prove Stan's work. I am convinced if this happens we will make great strides in bringing in the technology "in concert" as Stan stated many times.
Throughout my years working with Stan I was more interested in promoting the technology rather than studying in detail how to build it. I tried many times to get him to go on National Network news with only the simple demonstration cell which in my mind was more than enough in front of my eyes to show one could "close the loop" and after a generator was sufficiently primed to turn TEN car alternators like the belt driven one on Stan's bench.
I was the lead facilitator/investor in having an Indy Car team ready to run the race on the fuel cell. I probably have the only hard copy of the proposal accepted by the Indy Board. I spent $5000 setting up a loan to fund the building of 3 cells for that purpose only to have the lenders change the terms at the last minute demanding to see the Dune Buggy run before funding. This was NEVER going to happen as Stan did not jump through those kind of hoops for ANYONE. Needless to say I lost my $5,000. I have video of my meetings with top Indy Car driver Tom Sneva and his technicians. Buick had offered us three engines for dyno testing.
Stan refused them because they had a bad track record for reliability. In my meeting with Sneva, Conrad Murphy, the original owner of SeaRay boats said, You don't even have to run the race, just show up in te parking lot wit the unit on the car and call the press if they won't let you run in the race." Stan also signed up run the dune buggy in The World Solar Challenge and Stan had problems that caused that to not happen too. There was a lot of bad blood over this. Not with me but with big investors and older investors.
I asked Stan at one point "Do you have people, a foundation, and expertise that will continue the work if something happens to you?" He assured me that this was all arranged but as we all know it was not. I think he thought Steven would carry the load but he didn't leave it to anyone but his wife in the Will. She was not capable of handling any of this and lived hundreds of miles from Stephen.
As soon as my Demonstration Water Fuel Cell is complete and tested in a few weeks, I hope I will report my results in detail. I for one am the original "Open Source" of Stan's work on the internet and will do as much as I can here. We made quite a lot of gas with one tube setup the other day, (I'll see if I can attach photo?) with the 8xa board and patent spec RCC but didn't have working meter. I will post the data and later see if we need more advice or assistance in any forums.
I am also currently working with a documentary film maker who tracked me down earlier this year. He is doing a Stan Meyer documentary. He could do a mini-series just on what I told him. I put him in contact with others like myself that are still alive that can talk more about events rather than the technology's workings. He'll have enough to write Meyer's Biography. I hope he was able to speak to Stephen. I have heard he is getting forgetful or worse. I haven't called him in ten years.
On that note and for the record Stan told me, "I didn't discover circuit, my brother did." He explained, "Stephen told me, "You go and run with it if you want to. I don't want anything to do owning it with it." As we all know, Stephen was intimately involved in many aspects of building and testing as were VERY few others. I did read on some forum that the Stephen's discovery had something to do with "knocking a florescent shop light into a tank of water or some such." Maybe that is from Stephen's Blogtalk interviews? The fact remains from Stan's own words "He was the one on "God's mission." More power to him. He spent from the 1973 "Oil Crisis" until his suspicious death trying to "Stop all wars over energy resources." God bless him. Many of us know just how much of a "racket' war is. He always thought he might be poisoned and we always went to the same restaurants. No one that I spoke to from Grove City knew who was in the room with the Coroner so we will never know exactly from what Stan died. Can a guy with an aneurysm run out to the parking lot? The timing was impeccable for the bad guys.
I don't know of a handful of people still alive who actually met or spent more than a meeting with Stan. I was only 30 years old when I first got my hands on News Release #1 and we first spoke in 1985. I went to his lab in 1986 and on.
At this point many here and "banned" know more about duplicating Stan's methods or making improvements than I ever will.
As I said, you now know my "Mission," was more in promoting Stan's work and any help promoting or improving my actual first Water Fuel Cell will be welcome.
For the record in my desire to make a buck on Stan's "Water Powered Indy Car" and tech base I created acronym copyrights in 1990 or so. I did this for money of course but money is needed to put back into Dealerships, units, other capital assets and "developments and R+D." I have 27 years of my life waiting for Stan's dream to even get off the ground and which we all share yet... my car is still spewing hydrocarbon crap. Stan's been dead 14 years.
I created these sayings. They are Copyright protected.
Here they are. They are not open source.
I have given everything else I had and COULD within my agreements with Stan for longer than anyone on the planet.
H2O PWRD
H2O PWR
WTR PWRD
WTR PWR
H2O 2 GO
H2O TOGO
WTR WRKS
H2O WRKS
H2O FUEL
WTR FUEL
WFC PWD
WFC PWR
HDR ELEC
HDR ELCT
O ALLER
HOT WTR
HOT H2O
WTR 2 GO
WTR TOGO
H2O CAR
WTR CAR
WATER POWER
WATER POWERED
H2O POWER
H2O POWERED
© 1991 James Paul
Beyond that I'll entertain questions so if I never record this anywhere else at least it will be here.
One last thing. I know it can be competitive as to "How to do it." Try to avoid the infighting and banning. Everyone has their own approach in a way.
Stan said many times, "There's more than one way to do it," which is why his basic device was very crude, and why he would never reveal too much as to what was going on, but really he was if you could understand his language and would read his information without your stomach doing flips saying "You can't do that" or even imagine how you could with your textbook paradigm. "Overunity, Perpetual motion" blah blah blah.
I understood it because it was my first exposure to it without and knowledge of electronics or physics to cloud my eyesight.
"2nd law, and Conservation of energy" and Stan's own "Impossible' explanations also stopped me from finding serious experimenters from Peter Lindamann in 1986 (converted somewhere along the line but never built a cell) and the full, mostly now dead, cabal at sci.energy.hydrogen with the exception of Ted Zittergren (Why it works photo), Tad Johnson, Paul Kembell, and Michael Ohhannon.
So carry on and "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Vayas con Dios,
JP
This reminds me, "JW" was interviewed by Jeff Rense and a copy of the audio is here:
http://open-source-energy.org/haxar/meyer-stanley/Jeff_Rense_Radio_Show-20080729-Stanley_Meyer-Hydrogen_Powered_Vehicles.mp3
Searching the newsgroup archives regarding Stan's stuff did not cross me. Thanks MeyerandMe.
I've been a friend of Jeff's since the late 90's.
I did that interview on October 29, 2008 I believe.
Frankly you'll see from your H2OPWRD@aol.com, JW search and also knews4u2chew@yahoo.com under which I still post occasionally, that the sci.energy.hydrogen group was useless except for my few encouragers (Is that a word?) mentioned and picking up the few actual experimenters that resulted, as opposed to real technical help outright except ultimately from Ted Zittergren. I got nothing but flames for many years from 90% of the rest. It was the only place to post anything about hydrogen or Meyer on the net at the time. All the websites come and gone or still here happened after my first years on Usenet.
The day TedZittergen posted his "No secret frequency" results I was ecstatic. (Attached photo is one of his cells) That was in 1998 and I still haven't seen my own cell's results. Tad Johnson was the first guy to take it from Ted and build coils and circuits but I'm told by someone that he was threatened to stop so I never saw anyone accomplish much until Lawton came along. Who knows what happened to Tad? I know Zittergren is long dead. He was elderly in 1998.
Anyways, you will find little of help with Stan's methods or understanding the "science" in that group. Donny Lancaster seems the to be the only one left around besides me. You can however see how anything "Sufficiently advanced technology that is indistinguishable from magic" is treated by the old guard "engineers and scientists."
Regards,
JP
-
Hi JP, thanks for all the history and information you have posted, I am sure we can use it here. Just want to say though, when you talk of banning someone, this is not done on a whim so to speak, we give members who are in jeopardy a warning and some opportunity to change and follow the rules of the forum, then it's up to the individual which way they want to go. One thing we do not like and will not tolerate is a member bashing or bad mouthing "another" ["another" meaning: member or nonmember], to be kind and tactful in our speech is what we ask. On this forum most want to keep the peace and keep it a good place to share opinions, knowledge, history and ideas about the work. We do have bots, spammers, and those who want to abuse or waste forum resources, we do not allow this at all. Want to commend you for your life time experiences with Stan and sharing them with us and hope to see you make memories here, thanks Jeff. :D
-
Hi JP, thanks for all the history and information you have posted, I am sure we can use it here. Just want to say though, when you talk of banning someone, this is not done on a whim so to speak, we give members who are in jeopardy a warning and some opportunity to change and follow the rules of the forum, then it's up to the individual which way they want to go. One thing we do not like and will not tolerate is a member bashing or bad mouthing "another" ["another" meaning: member or nonmember], to be kind and tactful in our speech is what we ask. On this forum most want to keep the peace and keep it a good place to share opinions, knowledge, history and ideas about the work. We do have bots, spammers, and those who want to abuse or waste forum resources, we do not allow this at all. Want to commend you for your life time experiences with Stan and sharing them with us and hope to see you make memories here, thanks Jeff. :D
I understand and agree with everything you do and must tolerate in these types of forums. If we had this type of group 15 years ago maybe more of us would be driving Water Powered Cars today.
I appreciate being able to post where my recitations and knowledge are welcome and may help inspire more dedicated researchers.
I secured a number of domains including:
Firefromwater.com
H2opwrd.com
Meyerdocumentary.com
Meyerwfc.com
Stanmeyerdocumentary.com
Wtrpwrd.com
What I plan to do is use them to promote with my Logo items (see photos) and centralize Water Fuel Cell and Meyer information/links/websites/theory and promotion of the Documentary including the sale of historical, technical, How To, CD/DVDs and hardware components in one place for those searching and just starting to research and experiment with Electrical Polarization, Hydrogen Fracturing, and technical aspects.
I am not much of a website builder so this will take some time and investment as well. I feel having the Logo items will generate interest in Water as Fuel, the demand for knowledge, and off the shelf products from the general public which really knows nothing of Meyer's work. This hopefully will be tied to the release of the Meyer Documentary and University Lab Certification which can be used in major news media. This will jump start many to invest in the successful endeavors of many experimenters and hardware producers. To have any real impact in bringing this technology into common use it will take BILLIONS of dollars in investment. When Stan and I calculated the capital infrastructure to manufacture and install just the Automotive Water Fuel Cell conversions through the Dealership network, we calculated that it would take twelve regional manufacturing centers in the U.S. alone at a cost of millions of dollars each to produce the supply needed. Even with one dealership for every 1500 units to be sold in the U.S. it would take 100,000 Dealer installers, installing 5 units a day, 197 days to install that many units. This would only be possible if Stan could manufacture and deliver without a hitch 500,000 units a day. No small undertaking even given unlimited funding.
The fact is that the auto manufacturers ran away from Stan and his ability to easily retrofit existing autos after he showed people from General Motors his demonstration cells. He explains in my 1986 lab video (which will be released in part and full with the Documentary) that ""General Motors came down here and said, "We hear you have a natural water generator that can run the car down the road."" Stan replied, "If I can show you I can generate 7 pounds of hydrogen a minute will you believe I can run the car down the road?" To which they said "Sure." After he demonstrated this with his basic cell they never came back and what they did then was make all the cars more complicated to retrofit with Water Fuel Cells by adding all the anti-pollution devices, injectors, and computerization to essentially run away from Stan's technical and financial ability to easily retrofit all existing cars. Stan would have been better off at that point to build a whole new vehicle platform using Water Fuel Cells for power. Well, another few billion dollars and years of development right? This is why he concentrated on the Super Heated Steam Generator for industrial applications as it was the easiest product to bring into the market, manufacture, and sell even to the oil companies who use massive amount of steam in the production and refining of oil. He had just inked the $50,000,000 deal to build the development center and produce those units with the Belgian investors when "coincidentally" he died with those very investors and his brother at the dinner table. So all and all, even though we all want to share the information on building Water Fuel Cell based systems it will take billions of dollars in investment before it will have a real impact on the energy infrastructure of the planet. Stan would be turning in his grave if he saw what has happened since his death from the 911 charade to the Fukushima disaster as a result of our failure to have brought in the Water Fuel Cell tech base.[attachment=2284][attachment=2284]
Anyways, thanks for giving us all the space to continue to learn about, develop, and promote Stan's work.
The two cells photo is my photo of them on the bench in Stan's lab in Grove City.
Another is my 1986 photo with Stan in his van outside the lab in Grove city on our way to the Deer Creek center where he used to give his investment lectures and demonstrations of the cells. I don't think there are any photos or videos of these events as Stan was very strict about cameras and recordings. My video in the lab from 1986 is about 45 minutes long. It doesn't reveal any technical secrets or anything which is why I have not put in on youtube or anywhere else at this point.
It does show the two cells in operation and has a time stamp showing how fast he builds pressure in the cell before sparking it and burning alloy steel paper clips from the flame near instantaneously.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Cheers,
JP
-
After he demonstrated this with his basic cell they never came back and what they did then was make all the cars more complicated to retrofit with Water Fuel Cells by adding all the anti-pollution devices, injectors, and computerization to essentially run away from Stan's technical and financial ability to easily retrofit all existing cars. Stan would have been better off at that point to build a whole new vehicle platform using Water Fuel Cells for power.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Cheers,
JP
I think the easiest first applications for water fuel will be kit cars or open source platforms such as Wikispeed(http://www.wikispeed.com). I think water fuel will be an exotic market until the manufacturing / dealer infrastructure is completed. Seeing home built cars running on water would draw investors to the manufacturing table though.:)
Nate
-
I'm thinking we need to start some sort of a grassroots fade like jeans with holes all over in them. You know, like people cruising around in old junkyard cars running on water. Maybe add to it a go-cart racing league for kids with water powered engines. The folks that care less about this stuff and would rather burn oil will start feeling left out over time and get water powered just to be part of the "in crowd". I personally would totally ignore big business and the government as they have certainly done the same to us.
-
After he demonstrated this with his basic cell they never came back and what they did then was make all the cars more complicated to retrofit with Water Fuel Cells by adding all the anti-pollution devices, injectors, and computerization to essentially run away from Stan's technical and financial ability to easily retrofit all existing cars. Stan would have been better off at that point to build a whole new vehicle platform using Water Fuel Cells for power.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Cheers,
JP
I think the easiest first applications for water fuel will be kit cars or open source platforms such as Wikispeed(http://www.wikispeed.com). I think water fuel will be an exotic market until the manufacturing / dealer infrastructure is completed. Seeing home built cars running on water would draw investors to the manufacturing table though.:)
Nate
In my opinion getting some type of usable product to the market that many can use is a good start.
This to me the includes basic cells and circuits for schools and experimental study.
Much of this is available but there needs to be some specific "How to Build" publications as well.
Beyond that I think making the cell and good gas production is secondary to having a device on which to use the thermal energy. I am looking for some "off the shelf" steam pumps that can belt drive small and large electric generators for off grid use. The off grid community is growing rapidly and many preppers would jump at the chance to have the ability to create energy from any type of dirty water as well as having purified water left over.
I have been trying to find a maybe 5HP steam engine similar to the small toy ones (link) you see just to use it to close the loop after priming and getting up enough steam to run the alternator doing the water decomposition with the very basic 8xa process and nothing more than a cell the size Stan demonstrated. These kits and systems can be sold for much less than $10,000 I believe.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Tools-Supplies-Engines-/2594/i.html?_nkw=toy+steam+engine
This would also CLEARLY demonstrate that if you have the water "fuel" supply that you truly have the "free energy" about which Stan spoke.
Demonstrating these simple closed loop (except for adding more water) systems is far easier and will generate more investor interest for systems development than a 1-off vintage carbureted "Water Powered Car" because it is something people can buy today without going to the junk yard for a 1966 Falcon.
Until someone designs and produces a transportation platform designed specifically to use the Water Fuel Cell tech base everything will be 1-off retrofits of some easier cars than others but nothing will be available for the masses because of the discussed complications of todays autos. I am told that the computers on these cars are specifically setup to sabotage themselves by any attempt to alter the software or add on devices that don't operate as they were manufactured.
Those are just my ideas for what anyone of us could do with a basic cell and and 8xa setup once you can get the "choking" circuit and tubing to use the gases safely to run a small steam engine. This one looks interesting but likely too small.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stuart-Turner-Steam-Engine-Model-10V-with-Wooden-Base-BEAUTIFUL-/360491374300?pt=Vintage_Antique_Toys_US&hash=item53eef5d6dc
Cheers,
JP
-
After he demonstrated this with his basic cell they never came back and what they did then was make all the cars more complicated to retrofit with Water Fuel Cells by adding all the anti-pollution devices, injectors, and computerization to essentially run away from Stan's technical and financial ability to easily retrofit all existing cars. Stan would have been better off at that point to build a whole new vehicle platform using Water Fuel Cells for power.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Cheers,
JP
Nate
I'm thinking we need to start some sort of a grassroots fade like jeans with holes all over in them. You know, like people cruising around in old junkyard cars running on water. Maybe add to it a go-cart racing league for kids with water powered engines. The folks that care less about this stuff and would rather burn oil will start feeling left out over time and get water powered just to be part of the "in crowd". I personally would totally ignore big business and the government as they have certainly done the same to us.
Car manufacturers are heavily regulated by the state so I would reckon "the little guy" would have to do this without any corporate or state sponsorship (with direct or indirect conditions attached).
-
Yes, lets not forget about all the vehicles people turned in, then were destroyed by you know who, so people could get a tax break to buy a new car. Now the newer junked cars are few and far between. They called it an incentive program,"not". Thanks Nate and JP for your posts.:D
-
After he demonstrated this with his basic cell they never came back and what they did then was make all the cars more complicated to retrofit with Water Fuel Cells by adding all the anti-pollution devices, injectors, and computerization to essentially run away from Stan's technical and financial ability to easily retrofit all existing cars. Stan would have been better off at that point to build a whole new vehicle platform using Water Fuel Cells for power.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition."
Cheers,
JP
I think the easiest first applications for water fuel will be kit cars or open source platforms such as Wikispeed(http://www.wikispeed.com). I think water fuel will be an exotic market until the manufacturing / dealer infrastructure is completed. Seeing home built cars running on water would draw investors to the manufacturing table though.:)
Nate
In my opinion getting some type of usable product to the market that many can use is a good start.
This to me the includes basic cells and circuits for schools and experimental study.
Much of this is available but there needs to be some specific "How to Build" publications as well.
Beyond that I think making the cell and good gas production is secondary to having a device on which to use the thermal energy. I am looking for some "off the shelf" steam pumps that can belt drive small and large electric generators for off grid use. The off grid community is growing rapidly and many preppers would jump at the chance to have the ability to create energy from any type of dirty water as well as having purified water left over.
I have been trying to find a maybe 5HP steam engine similar to the small toy ones (link) you see just to use it to close the loop after priming and getting up enough steam to run the alternator doing the water decomposition with the very basic 8xa process and nothing more than a cell the size Stan demonstrated. These kits and systems can be sold for much less than $10,000 I believe.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Tools-Supplies-Engines-/2594/i.html?_nkw=toy+steam+engine
This would also CLEARLY demonstrate that if you have the water "fuel" supply that you truly have the "free energy" about which Stan spoke.
Demonstrating these simple closed loop (except for adding more water) systems is far easier and will generate more investor interest for systems development than a 1-off vintage carbureted "Water Powered Car" because it is something people can buy today without going to the junk yard for a 1966 Falcon.
Until someone designs and produces a transportation platform designed specifically to use the Water Fuel Cell tech base everything will be 1-off retrofits of some easier cars than others but nothing will be available for the masses because of the discussed complications of todays autos. I am told that the computers on these cars are specifically setup to sabotage themselves by any attempt to alter the software or add on devices that don't operate as they were manufactured.
Those are just my ideas for what anyone of us could do with a basic cell and and 8xa setup once you can get the "choking" circuit and tubing to use the gases safely to run a small steam engine. This one looks interesting but likely too small.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stuart-Turner-Steam-Engine-Model-10V-with-Wooden-Base-BEAUTIFUL-/360491374300?pt=Vintage_Antique_Toys_US&hash=item53eef5d6dc
This simple generator design might be easy to retrofit and size up?
How much power does a house use daily?
You have to be using electricity too.
Of course thats the EPG side of the tech base needed to truly have the system be a 'disconnect' in the sense of your gas, heat, and electric are in these same package
The original Canadian patent included the water splitting and EPG as you can see.
Stan designed simple stove and hydrogen "burner" gas mixing concepts for patents but not much is standardized that could be built any more like 50 or 100 years ago. There are too many models of every appliance burners. Easier to buy a new one built for Water as Fuel. Homes must be built new or retrofitted WFC systems until we build KW and MW power systems that stand alone. This is a huge undertaking. Look how much a basic cell build is. Mine could be sold for less than $1000 even massed produced. Maybe design a Water Fuel Cell Oven that runs on water? It has to be plug and play. Make a steam oven that steams veggies. This type of development takes years even without most everyone being still experimenting rather than using what we know in practice and yet we still need to learn to recreate much less APPLY more Stan's very advanced processes.
Everyone should be thinking about making retrofits for common things or they must build a new platform for anything using the tech base.
They also must make money to do this to improve and promote the tech base knowledge. You do this by showing people how they can use what we have. Right now we have the basics that Stan demonstrated to varying degrees.
This all must be promoted to create demand.
One goes hand in hand with the other.
We aren't getting any free advertising on the "Networks" for a reason.
This needs to be brought into the educational complex. It sure would be an American and world wide job creator too.
Using a Water Fuel Cell has to be nearly as convenient as the most convenient thing existing today and be price competitive to succeed. If the demand for oil goes down WFC tech will still have to out convenience the last best thing as gas goes back down to 25 CENTS a gallon. Stan's technology could again be used by the oil industry to cut it's OWN energy costs. Super heated steam injection is a major component is reviving old thick bottomed oil wells.
It will be 50-100 years before anything resembling the large percent of the world is running "on water" but that is just a blip in history. This is especially in light of any suppression and any subversion and non-public investment by the elites. You can bet the likes of the petroleum company owners themselves, the military, and others have been playing with this technology since the day Meyer filed those patents. Bet on it. Where do you think the 1.2 TRILLION dollars Rumsfield says "Is unaccounted for in the Pentagram budget" the VERY day BEFORE 9-11? It has already been more than 27 years since Meyer began to create and disseminate his work and look where we "the public" are with it. The money power is the oil based war machine over "scarce" resources that we really waste by burning instead of turning to plastics or just leave in the damn ground. They still control 100% of the market in energy use.
Anyways, to carry on.
We can and MUST get some serious devices to market in 5 years by the millions by demonstrating the technology, getting IO data and building "daily use' products small and large. All this again will take millions and billions of dollars.
The "public" knows we are up a creek on this planet without this type of clean advances in technology. They will demand it if they know about it and see it working. Invent daily use devices. A camp stove, mini gen set, or wind powered gas generator that runs a steam engine/electrical generator.
This generation has more technology and knowledge available at its" fingertips than ever in known history with "desk top" part printing CAD, and things I never dreamed of as a child building balsa wood and plastic airplanes.
Carry on.
Dream on.
Work on.
Here are our first pictures and videos.
Vayas con Dios,
JP
[attachment=2290][attachment=2291][attachment=2292][attachment=2293]
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Hi JP, good to have you here.
Must have been a very frustrating 20 years for you, knowing that this was sitting under people's noses this whole time and being summarily ignored and dismissed. Congratulations on staying in the fight long enough for the re-inforcements to start showing up.
We have some very talented builders and experimenters on here (and people like myself who watch and try to encourage and inject the odd thought here and there). I think between us all we also raise awareness in those around us which can only be good.
I feel that we are close to success in many areas and when that success comes, well, we know there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. As you say though, we need to get that success and start having practical demonstrations of this technology making lives easier and better.
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Great JP.you make it happen.welcome to be here.
thanks
geenee
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Yes symanuk, my sentiments exactly, again thanks JP. We really need to come up with a working model, so with that being said, do you JP have the original working 8XA circuit that Stan designed or are you working with the same one found on the internet that we all have ?:cool::D:P
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Welcome JP! I enjoyed reading your posts, it was a great history lesson and very inspirational. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you, and good luck with your endeavors.
-
Yes symanuk, my sentiments exactly, again thanks JP. We really need to come up with a working model, so with that being said, do you JP have the original working 8XA circuit that Stan designed or are you working with the same one found on the internet that we all have ?:cool::D:P
He sent all this to me gratis as well as $50 for more supplies after I spoke to him on the phone, telling him of my association with Stan and my desire to FINALLY have a Meyer replication circuit/cell after all these years.
The 8xa fully built board was all ready to solder to my RCC, connect to the step down transformer, variac, and capacitor tubes. This can all be seen in the photos (sorry about focus) attached here. I guess it is his own board design based on Stan's Memo 420 diagram attached.
He also sent me the 9xa PCB and all the other components to solder together for that board. I hope to get my technician or another protege to solder that board together for testing soon for testing too. My understanding is the 9xa board is needed to actually get beyond basic Electrical Polarization Process and create resonance for Resonant Cavity increased gas production.
We are near done with the 9 tube exciter array and assembly. I has taken a few months to get components purchased, machined, and welded with my minimal budget and current cash flow. This is my cost list so far.
WFC Cost as of Sept 27, 2012
$1724.36 Total
Free 8xA Complet PCB (Sells for $350.00 @ stansdream.com)
7.32 12v/450mA Step down transformer (Radio Shack sku# 4029312665)
56 Variac (Used on Ebay)
11.79 18g copper wire
3.9 bolt tool for winding RCC as per youtube video
55.51 nts-blts (Stainless nuts and bolts for assembly)
44.61 switches (9 switches/Stan's original panel)
150 Labor Machining
50 SSteel strips for outside exciter connections 25 thou thickness
137 SSteel 304 Tubes www.metalsdepot.com
305.86 plastic tube, top/bottom, base material www.interstateplastics.com
15.82 Taps for Delrin screws to space/insulate outer exciter tube
16.5 2 E-cores www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerPotC/FerPotC-2.html
10 SSteel plate for round inner exciter base/holder
500 Caps/Tube Labor Machining
200 Top and bottom exciter align plates Labor Machining
15 1 ft Al channel for switch and plug plate on base
25.05 plug jump cord /wire end connectors, rubber feet for base
120 Lbor Machining Base-bottotm cell plug
So at this point I would have spent a total of more than $2,000 if I had to pay for the 8xa board. I know some of this could be done cheaper a different way but again I want to near as possible replicate Stan's cell for lecture and historical purposes. I still plan to house the components in a nice box with meters.
I will get my tabs welded onto the outer exciter tubes soon for free by my technician. I was getting my machining at something of a discount rate by a friend.
I really should start a new "Project" thread here to share all this.
And Jeff, I loaded 2 videos as attachments in another post and didn't see them attached?
What should I do?
[attachment=2294][attachment=2295][attachment=2296][attachment=2297][attachment=2298]
-
Yes symanuk, my sentiments exactly, again thanks JP. We really need to come up with a working model, so with that being said, do you JP have the original working 8XA circuit that Stan designed or are you working with the same one found on the internet that we all have ?:cool::D:P
He sent all this to me gratis as well as $50 for more supplies after I spoke to him on the phone, telling him of my association with Stan and my desire to FINALLY have a Meyer replication circuit/cell after all these years.
The 8xa fully built board was all ready to solder to my RCC, connect to the step down transformer, variac, and capacitor tubes. This can all be seen in the photos (sorry about focus) attached here. I guess it is his own board design based on Stan's Memo 420 diagram attached.
He also sent me the 9xa PCB and all the other components to solder together for that board. I hope to get my technician or another protege to solder that board together for testing soon for testing too. My understanding is the 9xa board is needed to actually get beyond basic Electrical Polarization Process and create resonance for Resonant Cavity increased gas production.
We are near done with the 9 tube exciter array and assembly. I has taken a few months to get components purchased, machined, and welded with my minimal budget and current cash flow. This is my cost list so far.
WFC Cost as of Sept 27, 2012
$1724.36 Total
Free 8xA Complet PCB (Sells for $350.00 @ stansdream.com)
7.32 12v/450mA Step down transformer (Radio Shack sku# 4029312665)
56 Variac (Used on Ebay)
11.79 18g copper wire
3.9 bolt tool for winding RCC as per youtube video
55.51 nts-blts (Stainless nuts and bolts for assembly)
44.61 switches (9 switches/Stan's original panel)
150 Labor Machining
50 SSteel strips for outside exciter connections 25 thou thickness
137 SSteel 304 Tubes www.metalsdepot.com
305.86 plastic tube, top/bottom, base material www.interstateplastics.com
15.82 Taps for Delrin screws to space/insulate outer exciter tube
16.5 2 E-cores www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerPotC/FerPotC-2.html
10 SSteel plate for round inner exciter base/holder
500 Caps/Tube Labor Machining
200 Top and bottom exciter align plates Labor Machining
15 1 ft Al channel for switch and plug plate on base
25.05 plug jump cord /wire end connectors, rubber feet for base
120 Lbor Machining Base-bottotm cell plug
So at this point I would have spent a total of more than $2,000 if I had to pay for the 8xa board. I know some of this could be done cheaper a different way but again I want to near as possible replicate Stan's cell for lecture and historical purposes. I still plan to house the components in a nice box with meters.
I will get my tabs welded onto the outer exciter tubes soon for free by my technician. I was getting my machining at something of a discount rate by a friend.
I really should start a new "Project" thread here to share all this.
And Jeff, I loaded 2 videos as attachments in another post and didn't see them attached?
What should I do?
-
Yes symanuk, my sentiments exactly, again thanks JP. We really need to come up with a working model, so with that being said, do you JP have the original working 8XA circuit that Stan designed or are you working with the same one found on the internet that we all have ?:cool::D:P
He sent all this to me gratis as well as $50 for more supplies after I spoke to him on the phone, telling him of my association with Stan and my desire to FINALLY have a Meyer replication circuit/cell after all these years.
(Economy snip)
And Jeff, I loaded 2 videos as attachments in another post and didn't see them attached?
What should I do?
I don't have a youtube account so would like to load the videos as downloadable files tagged to posts here if that is doable.
How would I do this?
Thanks,
JP
-
Yes symanuk, my sentiments exactly, again thanks JP. We really need to come up with a working model, so with that being said, do you JP have the original working 8XA circuit that Stan designed or are you working with the same one found on the internet that we all have ?:cool::D:P
He sent all this to me gratis as well as $50 for more supplies after I spoke to him on the phone, telling him of my association with Stan and my desire to FINALLY have a Meyer replication circuit/cell after all these years.
(Economy snip)
And Jeff, I loaded 2 videos as attachments in another post and didn't see them attached?
What should I do?
I don't have a youtube account so would like to load the videos as downloadable files tagged to posts here if that is doable.
How would I do this?
Thanks,
JP
-
Yes symanuk, my sentiments exactly, again thanks JP. We really need to come up with a working model, so with that being said, do you JP have the original working 8XA circuit that Stan designed or are you working with the same one found on the internet that we all have ?:cool::D:P
He sent all this to me gratis as well as $50 for more supplies after I spoke to him on the phone, telling him of my association with Stan and my desire to FINALLY have a Meyer replication circuit/cell after all these years.
(Economy snip)
And Jeff, I loaded 2 videos as attachments in another post and didn't see them attached?
What should I do?
I don't have a youtube account so would like to load the videos as downloadable files tagged to posts here if that is doable.
How would I do this?
Thanks,
JP
The biggest one was 8.2 MB or so.
I don't see them listed in my account attachment list.
I have yet to master my zipping and loading but will try that after I try one more time the other way attaching in original post.
Thanks,
JP
-
Hi JP, VERY welcome to the forum :D
I hope to be able to build one of these and during that process I also hope that you won't mind
me asking (a few) questions, should they arise :P
I'm going to use this as a starting point, quoted from your earlier post,HOW TO?
As a guide, you need US Patent 4,936,961 ref. figure 1 to 3F.
If you read something about magical frequencyis, forget that.
It works fine with 10KHz or something else if you preferred.
Use 50% duty cycle. BUT! the frequency will be doubled in the
step up circuit and that's the frequency the Water-Cell will work
with. The components must resist at least 2000V.
The Water-Cell is very simple. Take a lot of stainless steel tubes
with the inner diameter of the bigger tube 3mm bigger than the outer
diameter of the inner tube. From now you must look at this
Water-Cell as a capacitor with water as dilectricum.
The Water-Cell and the INDUCTOR will resonate at a specific
frequency. It's a normal RC-circuit.
Now the most important: The Water-Cell/Inductor frequency and
the doubled frequency from the generator must be exactly the
same. A special condition exists in a L/C Circuit, when it is
energized at a frequency at which the inductive reactance is equal
to the capacitive reactance, XL = XC.
Adjust the voltage peak level to reach a maximum hydrogen/oxygen
producing with a minimum of current using. If you earlier make
hydrogen with the electrolysis method with a lot of current,
this experiment will really surprise you.
For even less current you can make some experiment with a
centertapped puls-transformer.
Oh what the heck, here goes.
So I start by putting together a single cell with 1.5 mm spacing (air gap) between the tubes.
First question: Do I have to prime the tubes by applying a dielectric layer on the outside of
the inner tube and on the inside of the outer tube?
The reason for asking is because I suspect that when you apply anything up to 1 KV on a cell
submerged in water, surely that would then result in some serious current flowing from one
tube to the other, unless there's some form of dielectric "barrier" preventing an electric current
from flowing?
This would explain the "no current, all voltage" approach to a working cell.
Next, I build a VIC according to protocol, with bifilar wound secondarys, including a high voltage
rectifier diode, and so on.
Then I apply a 50% duty cycle PWM pulse train to the primary of the VIC, at a fairly low voltage,
and at the same time I observe how the secondary looks like on my oscilloscope.
When (if) I see the double frequency I know at what frequency the cell should operate at.
Then I crank up the voltage until I get the highest flow of hydogen & oxygen from the cell without
breaking the dielectric barrier on the tubes, or draining the cavity between the tubes due to
the high volumeflow of gasses being produced in the cell.
How far off am I in my thinking here? :D
Btw, I put together a PDF with your description and the patent 4936961
-
Hi JP, VERY welcome to the forum :D
I hope to be able to build one of these and during that process I also hope that you won't mind
me asking (a few) questions, should they arise :P
I'm going to use this as a starting point, quoted from your earlier post,HOW TO?
As a guide, you need US Patent 4,936,961 ref. figure 1 to 3F.
If you read something about magical frequencyis, forget that.
It works fine with 10KHz or something else if you preferred.
Use 50% duty cycle. BUT! the frequency will be doubled in the
step up circuit and that's the frequency the Water-Cell will work
with. The components must resist at least 2000V.
The Water-Cell is very simple. Take a lot of stainless steel tubes
with the inner diameter of the bigger tube 3mm bigger than the outer
diameter of the inner tube. From now you must look at this
Water-Cell as a capacitor with water as dilectricum.
The Water-Cell and the INDUCTOR will resonate at a specific
frequency. It's a normal RC-circuit.
Now the most important: The Water-Cell/Inductor frequency and
the doubled frequency from the generator must be exactly the
same. A special condition exists in a L/C Circuit, when it is
energized at a frequency at which the inductive reactance is equal
to the capacitive reactance, XL = XC.
Adjust the voltage peak level to reach a maximum hydrogen/oxygen
producing with a minimum of current using. If you earlier make
hydrogen with the electrolysis method with a lot of current,
this experiment will really surprise you.
For even less current you can make some experiment with a
centertapped puls-transformer.
Oh what the heck, here goes.
So I start by putting together a single cell with 1.5 mm spacing (air gap) between the tubes.
First question: Do I have to prime the tubes by applying a dielectric layer on the outside of
the inner tube and on the inside of the outer tube?
The reason for asking is because I suspect that when you apply anything up to 1 KV on a cell
submerged in water, surely that would then result in some serious current flowing from one
tube to the other, unless there's some form of dielectric "barrier" preventing an electric current
from flowing?
This would explain the "no current, all voltage" approach to a working cell.
Next, I build a VIC according to protocol, with bifilar wound secondarys, including a high voltage
rectifier diode, and so on.
Then I apply a 50% duty cycle PWM pulse train to the primary of the VIC, at a fairly low voltage,
and at the same time I observe how the secondary looks like on my oscilloscope.
When (if) I see the double frequency I know at what frequency the cell should operate at.
Then I crank up the voltage until I get the highest flow of hydogen & oxygen from the cell without
breaking the dielectric barrier on the tubes, or draining the cavity between the tubes due to
the high volumeflow of gasses being produced in the cell.
How far off am I in my thinking here? :D
Btw, I put together a PDF with your description and the patent 4936961
All I know is you are tuning the circuit to make the Inductance match or exceed the capacitance. Ted did the experiment in the most basic way I've seen explained.
I can't tell you what you should see or do with your signal on your scope.
Alex Petty posted this:
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
I am not literate in using a scope myself.
I hope there are others here that will be able to explain more about what you should see and do from here.
I hope this helps.
Nice job on the pdf.
Good luck in your experiments.
Cheers,
JP
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Ok, as far as I know the water is the dielectric. It is suffering "catastrophic breakdown" (Peter Lindeman's term) due to the high voltage and frequency. None of Stan's tubes or anything else (resonant cavity) that I know of had any "coatings." Stan stressed that the Stainless 304 is "totally inert" and does not chemically react in the cell. Stan always stressed in his explanations that the dielectric constant was key in his process. What he was stressing is that you can beak down the dielectric medium with voltage and high frequency without the consumption of "appreciable amounts of current." The secret, as it were, is in matching or exceeding the capacitance with the inductance allowing voltage to take over as the primary force in the decomposition of the water. This creates the polarization field, as it were, of great potential difference and then the vibration is added. In electrolysis, it seems to me, electrons are converted into heat with the passage of current (friction) in taking the molecule apart by brute force of current. In Electrical Polarization we are "liberating" each and every component of the molecule without converting any electrons to heat. The stretching of the molecule with the large potential differences and vibratory frequencies make it impossible for the electrons to maintain their orbits and the molecule falls apart. We then collect the HHO and free electrons to do more work elsewhere.
All I know is you are tuning the circuit to make the Inductance match or exceed the capacitance. Ted did the experiment in the most basic way I've seen explained.
I can't tell you what you should see or do with your signal on your scope.
Alex Petty posted this:
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
I am not literate in using a scope myself.
I hope there are others here that will be able to explain more about what you should see and do from here.
I hope this helps.
Nice job on the pdf.
Good luck in your experiments.
Cheers,
JP
-
Ok, as far as I know the water is the dielectric. It is suffering "catastrophic breakdown" (Peter Lindeman's term) due to the high voltage and frequency. None of Stan's tubes or anything else (resonant cavity) that I know of had any "coatings." Stan stressed that the Stainless 304 is "totally inert" and does not chemically react in the cell. Stan always stressed in his explanations that the dielectric constant was key in his process. What he was stressing is that you can beak down the dielectric medium with voltage and high frequency without the consumption of "appreciable amounts of current." The secret, as it were, is in matching or exceeding the capacitance with the inductance allowing voltage to take over as the primary force in the decomposition of the water. This creates the polarization field, as it were, of great potential difference and then the vibration is added. In electrolysis, it seems to me, electrons are converted into heat with the passage of current (friction) in taking the molecule apart by brute force of current. In Electrical Polarization we are "liberating" each and every component of the molecule without converting any electrons to heat. The stretching of the molecule with the large potential differences and vibratory frequencies make it impossible for the electrons to maintain their orbits and the molecule falls apart. We then collect the HHO and free electrons to do more work elsewhere.
All I know is you are tuning the circuit to make the Inductance match or exceed the capacitance. Ted did the experiment in the most basic way I've seen explained.
I can't tell you what you should see or do with your signal on your scope.
Alex Petty posted this:
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
I am not literate in using a scope myself.
I hope there are others here that will be able to explain more about what you should see and do from here.
I hope this helps.
Nice job on the pdf.
Good luck in your experiments.
Cheers,
JP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NczhXYkK0BI
Good luck,
JP
-
Ok, as far as I know the water is the dielectric. It is suffering "catastrophic breakdown" (Peter Lindeman's term) due to the high voltage and frequency. None of Stan's tubes or anything else (resonant cavity) that I know of had any "coatings." Stan stressed that the Stainless 304 is "totally inert" and does not chemically react in the cell. Stan always stressed in his explanations that the dielectric constant was key in his process. What he was stressing is that you can beak down the dielectric medium with voltage and high frequency without the consumption of "appreciable amounts of current." The secret, as it were, is in matching or exceeding the capacitance with the inductance allowing voltage to take over as the primary force in the decomposition of the water. This creates the polarization field, as it were, of great potential difference and then the vibration is added. In electrolysis, it seems to me, electrons are converted into heat with the passage of current (friction) in taking the molecule apart by brute force of current. In Electrical Polarization we are "liberating" each and every component of the molecule without converting any electrons to heat. The stretching of the molecule with the large potential differences and vibratory frequencies make it impossible for the electrons to maintain their orbits and the molecule falls apart. We then collect the HHO and free electrons to do more work elsewhere.
All I know is you are tuning the circuit to make the Inductance match or exceed the capacitance. Ted did the experiment in the most basic way I've seen explained.
I can't tell you what you should see or do with your signal on your scope.
Alex Petty posted this:
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
I am not literate in using a scope myself.
I hope there are others here that will be able to explain more about what you should see and do from here.
I hope this helps.
Nice job on the pdf.
Good luck in your experiments.
Cheers,
JP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NczhXYkK0BI
Good luck,
JP
I recall vaguely having seen a similar waveform on my own scope, but still no cigar alas :-/
What would be interesting would be to see this applied on a WFC, with all the correct parameters, a "proper" VIC
and what not, showing a significant difference in performance at resonance compared to 'non' resonance.
Let's hope that it's not too far away.
-
Ok, as far as I know the water is the dielectric. It is suffering "catastrophic breakdown" (Peter Lindeman's term) due to the high voltage and frequency. None of Stan's tubes or anything else (resonant cavity) that I know of had any "coatings." Stan stressed that the Stainless 304 is "totally inert" and does not chemically react in the cell. Stan always stressed in his explanations that the dielectric constant was key in his process. What he was stressing is that you can beak down the dielectric medium with voltage and high frequency without the consumption of "appreciable amounts of current." The secret, as it were, is in matching or exceeding the capacitance with the inductance allowing voltage to take over as the primary force in the decomposition of the water. This creates the polarization field, as it were, of great potential difference and then the vibration is added. In electrolysis, it seems to me, electrons are converted into heat with the passage of current (friction) in taking the molecule apart by brute force of current. In Electrical Polarization we are "liberating" each and every component of the molecule without converting any electrons to heat. The stretching of the molecule with the large potential differences and vibratory frequencies make it impossible for the electrons to maintain their orbits and the molecule falls apart. We then collect the HHO and free electrons to do more work elsewhere.
All I know is you are tuning the circuit to make the Inductance match or exceed the capacitance. Ted did the experiment in the most basic way I've seen explained.
I can't tell you what you should see or do with your signal on your scope.
Alex Petty posted this:
http://www.alexpetty.com/2011/06/16/simple-wfc-energization-circuit-by-alex-petty/
I am not literate in using a scope myself.
I hope there are others here that will be able to explain more about what you should see and do from here.
I hope this helps.
Nice job on the pdf.
Good luck in your experiments.
Cheers,
JP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NczhXYkK0BI
Good luck,
JP
-
Hi JP,
Good to see you are involved. I was away for a couple of months so I missed you coming into the forum, today I read who you are. Thanks for the info you sent and good luck with the demo unit.
Cheers, Rider
-
Hi JP,
Good to see you are involved. I was away for a couple of months so I missed you coming into the forum, today I read who you are. Thanks for the info you sent and good luck with the demo unit.
Cheers, Rider
Be sure to read this other thread for information on my Demo Cell build.
http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=733
We are near complete with the cell itself.
We might be testing circuits and coils later next week.
Cheers,
JP