Step by step VIC build

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(11-10-2011 11:20 AM)Oneminde Wrote:  

(11-10-2011 10:40 AM)firepinto Wrote:  

Quote:Hello Firepinto.
Are able to print me the VIC bobbins? (see image)

It may be possible to print that style of bobbins too. I don't have any 3D drawings of that style as of yet. I plan on trying more styles in the future, but my spare time is very limited for the rest of 2011. Are the dimensions in the first picture including the iron core?

Nate

I've attached the size for the core (original). In remarks to what you wrote "iron core" this has already been tested and it do not work. We know that the permeability is between 1550-1600. We started with a Ferrite core (hard) that got roughly 2000 in perm, we then did a test and re calculated the data and found that the perm is roughly 300-400 higher then what it should be. So for now, you can drop testing an iron core. Here is a picture taken from the replicated core.

Regarding the gap in the bobbins, this added measurement will answer that question

so where were these cores from? who and what on these cores? what kind of data do we have? where can we get some?

thanks!

~Russ

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(11-16-2011 09:17 PM)haxar Wrote:  As for the electronics in Stan's original voltage intensifier circuit, I've done a trace of its card here:



(click to enlarge or download the editable SVG image file zipped in the attachments)

I've drawn up the complete "functioning" schematic of the circuit as well:



(click for a printable PDF of the schematic)

The zipped schematic file in the attachments may only be compatible with gschem of the gEDA electronic toolkit, so compatibility varies.

hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ

[Muxar]

(11-29-2011 06:09 AM)~Russ/Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(11-16-2011 09:17 PM)haxar Wrote:  As for the electronics in Stan's original voltage intensifier circuit, I've done a trace of its card here:



(click to enlarge or download the editable SVG image file zipped in the attachments)

I've drawn up the complete "functioning" schematic of the circuit as well:



(click for a printable PDF of the schematic)

The zipped schematic file in the attachments may only be compatible with gschem of the gEDA electronic toolkit, so compatibility varies.

hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ

Hey guys!
So it supouses that this circuit is going to give us the exact frecuency that is needed to split the water molecules at the most eficiency way?
Oh man! that´s exciting!!
good job Axar!! and thanks for sharing!!

[haxar]

(11-29-2011 06:09 AM)~Russ/Rwg42985 Wrote:  hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ

I'm awaiting for the Prusa Mendel kit and the fuel cell materials to come in so I can print out the bobbins, construct the transformer and the fuel cell for testing the circuit. So, no progress has been made to test and modify the circuit for now.

[Jeff Nading]

(11-29-2011 02:34 PM)haxar Wrote:  

(11-29-2011 06:09 AM)~Russ/Rwg42985 Wrote:  hello haxar, so whats the word, and luck with this schematic? is it working as pland?

any adjustments that need to be made?

thanks!

~Russ

I'm awaiting for the Prusa Mendel kit and the fuel cell materials to come in so I can print out the bobbins, construct the transformer and the fuel cell for testing the circuit. So, no progress has been made to test and modify the circuit for now.

Hi Haxar, welcome to the Prusa family of 3d printers. Did you buy a complete kit or buy parts to build one like Nate and I? Either way if you need help, I am always around, if I can help I will, also everything Nate and I have done for this build is posted on this forum, Jeff.

[firepinto]

       

I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins. The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod. The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original. I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap. No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment. There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches. The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports. I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it. Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate

[Jeff Nading]

(12-13-2011 08:51 PM)firepinto Wrote:  I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins. The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod. The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original. I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap. No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment. There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches. The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports. I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it. Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate

Those look awesome Nate.

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(12-13-2011 08:51 PM)firepinto Wrote:  I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins. The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod. The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original. I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap. No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment. There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches. The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports. I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it. Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate

nate, so this bobbin will pop together to give us 3 bobbing in one side? 2 bigger bobbing with a smaller one in the middle?

also, i'm looking for a core that will fit this type of setup and then we can make them for that core but with all the correct bobbin sizes...

i like!

open source! love it!

~Russ

PS. ill put my orders in soon lol

[firepinto]

(12-14-2011 02:28 AM)~Russ/Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(12-13-2011 08:51 PM)firepinto Wrote:  I did a quick Sketchup of some snap-together round VIC bobbins. The bobbin dimensions are similar to the Stan Meyer rectangular versions, except they are for a 0.4 inch round ferrite rod. The end cap will hold the bobbins just as the original. I added an area for a square ferrite rod in each cap. No idea if a rod that size is available, but it leaves room to experiment. There are two slots for zip ties in each cap instead of notches. The diameter of the bobbin walls was calculated by matching the surface area with the original rectangular bobbin walls.
This should print with out the need of any supports. I'm not around my printer till the weekend so I haven't tried it. Can anyone think of any thing that could be added or changed?

Nate

nate, so this bobbin will pop together to give us 3 bobbing in one side? 2 bigger bobbing with a smaller one in the middle?

also, i'm looking for a core that will fit this type of setup and then we can make them for that core but with all the correct bobbin sizes...

i like!

open source! love it!

~Russ

PS. ill put my orders in soon lol

Yep, two of the longer half spools and two of the small round tips need to be printed for one side. The other two halves are the middle part of the bobbin. I can put together an exploded view of what the pieces look like put together later today.

Nate

[phil]

Whats anyones thoughts on permalloy as a core material. Russ said that he needed a higher permebility core than the ferrite he had, permalloy has a permebility of 80000-100000. Its definatly higher but could this be too high?
I can get hold of 1/2 inch diameter 4 inch long for £120 ($200), its expensive yes but if its a better material im tempted to give it a go.
There are permalloy E-cores on ebay, again around the £100 mark but they arent very big, about 65mm overall length if i remember rightly.

[firepinto]

(12-14-2011 02:20 PM)phil Wrote:  Whats anyones thoughts on permalloy as a core material. Russ said that he needed a higher permebility core than the ferrite he had, permalloy has a permebility of 80000-100000. Its definatly higher but could this be too high?
I can get hold of 1/2 inch diameter 4 inch long for £120 ($200), its expensive yes but if its a better material im tempted to give it a go.
There are permalloy E-cores on ebay, again around the £100 mark but they arent very big, about 65mm overall length if i remember rightly.

Wow that is pricey. Maybe if the permeability is that high, the cross-section of the core could be smaller? Maybe 1/4" could work. Sure seems like ferrite cores are hard to find.

[phil]

(12-14-2011 03:39 PM)firepinto Wrote:  

(12-14-2011 02:20 PM)phil Wrote:  Whats anyones thoughts on permalloy as a core material. Russ said that he needed a higher permebility core than the ferrite he had, permalloy has a permebility of 80000-100000. Its definatly higher but could this be too high?
I can get hold of 1/2 inch diameter 4 inch long for £120 ($200), its expensive yes but if its a better material im tempted to give it a go.
There are permalloy E-cores on ebay, again around the £100 mark but they arent very big, about 65mm overall length if i remember rightly.

Wow that is pricey. Maybe if the permeability is that high, the cross-section of the core could be smaller? Maybe 1/4" could work. Sure seems like ferrite cores are hard to find.

1/4 is only £10 cheaper than the 1/2 inch, the price of this stuff really drops off with the bigger quantities, they stock powder,rod, foil and tube. Heres the link, ive ordered some pure iron from these guys before http://www.goodfellow.com/A/Magnetic-Shi...Alloy.html

I have heard you have to keep this stuff really cool as the magnetic properties drop off with anything over 70C.

[firepinto]

   
Here is the complete set picture.

Nate

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(12-14-2011 05:15 PM)firepinto Wrote:  Here is the complete set picture.

Nate

wow! yes! love it! now we need a core...

they make cores that are flats on the end and round in the center. like this :



so we just need to do some digging now...

but really you could print off square bobbins as well that all snap together! yeah! sweet!

nice work Nate! ~Russ

[firepinto]

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Sketchup and STL files are attatched:

  PM87VIC_12.17.11a.zip (Size: 513.53 KB / Downloads: 96)

Nate

[firepinto]

           

I gave my 6 in 1 round bobbins a test print today. They look like they could work, but since I printed all the pieces at the same time they have a lot of globs to clean off. Some fine tuning with a file is needed to get the pieces to go together. Being so much smaller than the snap together spool I sent Russ, they don't have much flex. I actually pressed a couple pieces together with a vice.
I think if we find a ferrite core to use with a design like this, a larger diameter would make assembling the bobbins easier. There isn't much room for me to tweak tolerances, since the center core walls are 2 mm thick .. and the walls for the joints are 1 mm thick. With a .5 mm nozzle that only leaves room for 2 beads of plastic at the joints. Thicker walls could be done, but I assume that the windings are better if they are closer to the core?

Nate

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(12-28-2011 12:46 AM)firepinto Wrote:  I gave my 6 in 1 round bobbins a test print today. They look like they could work, but since I printed all the pieces at the same time they have a lot of globs to clean off. Some fine tuning with a file is needed to get the pieces to go together. Being so much smaller than the snap together spool I sent Russ, they don't have much flex. I actually pressed a couple pieces together with a vice.
I think if we find a ferrite core to use with a design like this, a larger diameter would make assembling the bobbins easier. There isn't much room for me to tweak tolerances, since the center core walls are 2 mm thick .. and the walls for the joints are 1 mm thick. With a .5 mm nozzle that only leaves room for 2 beads of plastic at the joints. Thicker walls could be done, but I assume that the windings are better if they are closer to the core?

Nate

verry nice nate!

it dose appear you could use some cleaning up on those...

why is some so sloppy and some really nice?

i know on the pieces you sent me some are really nice and some not?

it the printer doing that or is it the tolerances of the motors or what?

any how fantastic!

~Russ

PS. Merry Christmas !!!!

[firepinto]

(12-28-2011 10:13 AM)~Russ/Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(12-28-2011 12:46 AM)firepinto Wrote:  I gave my 6 in 1 round bobbins a test print today. They look like they could work, but since I printed all the pieces at the same time they have a lot of globs to clean off. Some fine tuning with a file is needed to get the pieces to go together. Being so much smaller than the snap together spool I sent Russ, they don't have much flex. I actually pressed a couple pieces together with a vice.
I think if we find a ferrite core to use with a design like this, a larger diameter would make assembling the bobbins easier. There isn't much room for me to tweak tolerances, since the center core walls are 2 mm thick .. and the walls for the joints are 1 mm thick. With a .5 mm nozzle that only leaves room for 2 beads of plastic at the joints. Thicker walls could be done, but I assume that the windings are better if they are closer to the core?

Nate

verry nice nate!

it dose appear you could use some cleaning up on those...

why is some so sloppy and some really nice?

i know on the pieces you sent me some are really nice and some not?

it the printer doing that or is it the tolerances of the motors or what?

any how fantastic!

~Russ

PS. Merry Christmas !!!!

The sloppiness on this set is because I made and STL file with all the pieces needed to make one complete set. When the print head moves from one piece to the other a little "ooze" leaks out of the nozzle and stretches between the parts. Printing the pieces one by one would make them a lot cleaner, but takes much longer. Now that I have the heated bed working, I have to wait for the bed to cool off before removing parts. Otherwise they bend easily at 60 C. Most other sloppiness I think is caused by the nozzle. I'm hoping going to a smaller one will make prints much cleaner. There are probably other settings I'm not aware of that could fix that too.

Nate

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

[/quote]

The sloppiness on this set is because I made and STL file with all the pieces needed to make one complete set. When the print head moves from one piece to the other a little "ooze" leaks out of the nozzle and stretches between the parts. Printing the pieces one by one would make them a lot cleaner, but takes much longer. Now that I have the heated bed working, I have to wait for the bed to cool off before removing parts. Otherwise they bend easily at 60 C. Most other sloppiness I think is caused by the nozzle. I'm hoping going to a smaller one will make prints much cleaner. There are probably other settings I'm not aware of that could fix that too.

Nate

[/quote]

OK Nate!

i was just wondering! i did not know how that worked but that makes sense. also can you make the round edges more round? is that the limit of your motor of the software?

looks good any how nate!

~Russ

[firepinto]

The sloppiness on this set is because I made and STL file with all the pieces needed to make one complete set. When the print head moves from one piece to the other a little "ooze" leaks out of the nozzle and stretches between the parts. Printing the pieces one by one would make them a lot cleaner, but takes much longer. Now that I have the heated bed working, I have to wait for the bed to cool off before removing parts. Otherwise they bend easily at 60 C. Most other sloppiness I think is caused by the nozzle. I'm hoping going to a smaller one will make prints much cleaner. There are probably other settings I'm not aware of that could fix that too.

Nate

[/quote]

OK Nate!

i was just wondering! i did not know how that worked but that makes sense. also can you make the round edges more round? is that the limit of your motor of the software?

looks good any how nate!

~Russ
[/quote]
Thanks Russ!
The roundness would have to be done in the sketchup file. The larger the circle, the more faces that would have to be added to keep it more round. I created a gear for my new printer that I used a lot more faces, and it turned out really smooth in the center. Definitely going to be some learning and tweaking along the way.

Nate