Stan's "Quenching Disk" what it is? And Testing

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

Hey guys,

So I have been looking for what Stan used as his “Quenching Disk” he states that it is ceramic material.

I believe I have found it. Now I just got to find where I can buy one…

What I believe it is a flash back arrester from Battery vent caps. This took me a long while to find… but now I need know where to get the ceramic ones…. I can find the plastic ones but they done work as well. I have some testes of these flash back arresters that I will share via video soon. (haven’t tested it fully yet)

When charging batteries… they produce Hydrogen…

http://www.endurahrjohnsonindia.com/cera...r-disc.htm

Quote:Zero-maintenance batteries have revolutionized the lead battery industry. One of the key components is a special filter disc. These are porous discs with perfectly tailored pore size and porosity press fitted into the Cap.

Key Functions
Flame Arresting : In an event of sparking outside a battery, they prevent the propagation/ ingress of flame from outside to inside by the use of a matrix of uniform openings that are carefully constructed to quench the flame by absorbing the head of the flame. This provides an extinguishing barrier to the ignited flame.

Zero Top-Up : Small & uniform pores along with the water repellent properties prevents depletion of electrolyte through the pores.

Venting : Tailored pore size and pore volume ensures controlled venting of gases, heat developed especially during charging, preventing the build-up of gases that can otherwise lead to explosion.

Key Features
• Porosity (%) of 45 + 5
• Uniform pore size of 150 – 200 microns
• Precisely tailored permeability as per customer requirements
• Very high strength with CCS values of 150 – 200 kg/cm2
• Very good acid resistance
• Excellent water repellency stable in acidic conditions


http://www.smjventure.com/batteryporousp...sters.html
SMJ Venture has now Plastic Porous material for Lead Acid Batteries. These porous plastic materials are available as circular dics form which also acts as flame arresters used for maintenance free batteries vent plugs (VRLA) and common venting battery lids (Kamina Type lid designs). The microporous porous body offers better resistance to the spillage of battery electrolyte, whilst it prevents any risk of ignition of flammable hydrogen gas which is liberated during normal use of these batteries. These Cindered Porous materials are engineered to be used in various types of Low Maintenance and Maintenance Free Lead Acid Batteries (VRLA) like the one’s used in Starting and Electric vehicles, Reserve power supplies, Marine, Defence and Military Vehicle applications where reliability is a must.



Properties
The microporous structure of Cindered Porous body has these following properties:
• It acts as a Flame Arrestor by restricting the path of flame inside the battery which can cause probable explosion of the battery.
• It Filtrates the foreign air borne particles inside the battery and at the same time checks the loss of battery electrolyte.
• It helps to reduce the build up of explosive gases inside the battery by providing Vent to the gases.
• The filter are available in both Hydrophobic and hydrophilic nature as per application requirements.

Designs Available
The Cindered Porous body can be manufactured in any complex design to suit your requirement.

Advance Advantage

We at SMJ Venture, Kolkata in the West Bengal, are committed to service you with quality products. Being the leading manufacturer of battery vents plugs and fire arrestors plugs, using the latest manufacturing methods, offering our customers advantages such as:

• Close tolerance manufacture .
• High volume production facilities
• Disc or cylindrical shape as per requirement.

http://www.porvairfiltration.com/view/Po...ials.aspx

Quote:Porous Media and Materials
Porvair Filtration Group manufacture an extensive range of porous materials to provide optimum solutions for a wide variety of applications. These materials can be purchased for OEM products or we can integrate and package into finished products.
Our extensive media and material portfolio includes:
• Vyon® sintered porous plastic powder materials including the BioVyonTM materials produced specifically for the life science industries.
• Sinterflo® materials include Sinterflo® P sintered porous metal powder and Sinterflo® M sintered metal mesh.
The applications for these materials include:
• filtration, many and diverse applications including air, water, steam and aggressive chemicals
• battery vents and flame arrestor plugs
• flame arrestors for gas sensor protection
• powder fluidisation and solids handling
• silencing
• vacuum tables
• sensor protection
• sparging
• fragrance emanation and chemical controlled release
Please contact a Porvair Filtration Group company representative for further information and advice on our complete range of porous media and materials, and our design and manufacturing services.

http://chandeisenmann.com/products/discs.asp

Quote:Porous Discs
Porous Metal Discs are used as filters, frits, snubbers, aerators, or as base components or assemblies. Available in diameters from as small as 0.020 inches to over 8 inches with a wide range of thickness.

Powder Metallurgy techniques are utilized to produce porous discs with interconnected porosity and densities ranging from 35% to 75%. The porosity of the disc consists of a wide pore size distribution centered around a mean pore size. Porous sintered metal discs are offered in 15 different Standard Micron Grades with pore sizes ranging from a low of 0.003 micrometers to a high of 200 micrometers.
Porous discs are available in diameters from 0.020” (0.5 mm) to 12” (305 mm) OD, but larger discs can also be fabricated by welding sections together. The thickness of the discs are normally specified in the 0.040” (1mm) to 0.125” (3mm) range, but some applications use discs as thin as 0.010” (0.25 mm) or as thick as 1” (25.4 mm). Disc sizes and tolerances are dependent on the material, micron grade and the density requirements.
Tools are generally available for common Fractional and Metric sizes up to 1” (25.4 mm) with some larger sizes available as shown below. Tools can be specially ordered to make custom disc sizes or the disc diameter can be machined to size from larger discs. Standard Tolerances are listed below. Tighter tolerances are available with special processing and secondary operations.

Common Disc Sizes (Specify Outside Diameter and Thickness):
Typical Disc Outside Diameters
OD (Inches) OD (mm) OD (Inches) OD (mm)
0.040 +/-0.001 1.02 +/-0.03 0.500 +/-0.004 12.70 +/-0.10
0.062 +/-0.002 1.57 +/-0.05 0.625 +/-0.005 15.88 +/-0.13
0.079 +/-0.002 2.00 +/-0.05 0.750 +/-0.005 19.05 +/-0.13
0.094 +/-0.002 2.39 +/-0.05 1.000 +/-0.005 25.40 +/-0.13
0.125 +/-0.002 3.18 +/-0.05 1.250 +/-0.006 31.75 +/-0.15
0.156 +/-0.002 3.96 +/-0.05 1.500 +/-0.007 38.10 +/-0.18
0.187 +/-0.003 4.75 +/-0.08 2.000 +/-0.007 50.8 +/-0.18
0.250 +/-0.003 6.35 +/-0.08 2.500 +/-0.007 63.5 +/-0.18
0.312 +/-0.003 7.92 +/-0.08 3.000 +/-0.007 76.2 +/-0.18
0.375 +/-0.003 9.52 +/-0.08 4.900 +/-0.007 124.5 +/-0.18

Typical Disc Thickness
Inches mm Inches mm
0.040 +/-0.003 1.02 +/-0.08 0.125 +/-0.005 3.18 +/-0.13
0.062 +/-0.004 1.57 +/-0.10 0.156 +/-0.005 3.96 +/-0.13
0.079 +/-0.004 2.03 +/-0.10 0.187 +/-0.005 4.75 +/-0.13
0.094 +/-0.004 2.39 +/-0.10 0.250 +/-0.005 6.35 +/-0.13
Chand Eisenmann Metallurgical has hundreds of other tools available. Please call our sales office if you need a size that does not appear on the list above.
Disc Assemblies:
Assembly of the porous disc into hardware is readily accomplished using a variety of joining techniques such as welding, mechanical press fitting, epoxy gluing and sinter bonding. More detailed information about these assembly techniques is discussed in the discussing secondary operations section under the Engineering Information heading.

other links:
http://www.indiamart.com/advancerubtech/...ttery.html

so yeah… I need the ceramic ones… any help????

Thanks! ~Russ

[phil]

russ, tell me what size disc, what size holes and how many holes you want. My neighbour works for a precision engineering company and can drill those tiny hole. Hes already told me cost will depend on how many drill bits he snaps. He can work in ceramic and could probly make it from an off cut of some ceramic material. Hes a mate so will prob do it on his lunch break for cheap..hopefully.

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-28-2011 12:29 PM)phil Wrote:  russ, tell me what size disc, what size holes and how many holes you want. My neighbor works for a precision engineering company and can drill those tiny hole. Hes already told me cost will depend on how many drill bits he snaps. He can work in ceramic and could probly make it from an off cut of some ceramic material. Hes a mate so will prob do it on his lunch break for cheap..hopefully.

well... its really like a ceramic that is porous and has tinny passage ways VS holes but why not rey out holes...

as H2o Stated. it states in the patent its .015" so we can start there?? just ask your neighbor if that's even possible to do lets say a 3/4" OD 1/8" thick disk???

will see what he seas then go from there...

thanks Phill and H20!!!

~Russ

[phil]

  watering can nozzle.htm (Size: 13.55 KB / Downloads: 33)

This kinda layout? You could always block out some holes if they arnt all needed?

Have you thought about air-stone for aquariums? Dont know the pore size of that stuff but im guessing its pretty small.

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-29-2011 04:22 PM)phil Wrote:  This kinda layout? You could always block out some holes if they arnt all needed?

Have you thought about air-stone for aquariums? Dont know the pore size of that stuff but im guessing its pretty small.

i here the air-stone for aquariums don't work right but i may try it... also, the link don't work for me???

~Russ

[phil]

  watering can nozzle.htm (Size: 13.55 KB / Downloads: 20)

Try this pic.

He came out today when i was tinkering with the scooter this morning and i explained what was needed. I told him think of a watering can nozzle with 0.015" holes.
He said its the drill bits that are expensive, not the labour or anything else.
Price will depend if the boss is around when he does it.
I said id cut the disc and get it all marked out first so all he has to do is drill the holes. Ive got to drop a sketch thru his door and he's gonna let mey know the price.

[Blazer]

(10-30-2011 12:54 PM)phil Wrote:  Try this pic.

He came out today when i was tinkering with the scooter this morning and i explained what was needed. I told him think of a watering can nozzle with 0.015" holes.
He said its the drill bits that are expensive, not the labour or anything else.
Price will depend if the boss is around when he does it.
I said id cut the disc and get it all marked out first so all he has to do is drill the holes. Ive got to drop a sketch thru his door and he's gonna let mey know the price.

Is it possible to drill the holes but not go all the way thru then cut the disc to its final dimension? If you do it that way you may not break as many bits.

[phil]

(10-30-2011 06:40 PM)Blazer Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 12:54 PM)phil Wrote:  Try this pic.

He came out today when i was tinkering with the scooter this morning and i explained what was needed. I told him think of a watering can nozzle with 0.015" holes.
He said its the drill bits that are expensive, not the labour or anything else.
Price will depend if the boss is around when he does it.
I said id cut the disc and get it all marked out first so all he has to do is drill the holes. Ive got to drop a sketch thru his door and he's gonna let mey know the price.

Is it possible to drill the holes but not go all the way thru then cut the disc to its final dimension? If you do it that way you may not break as many bits.

I was thinking that, im sure I've got some 6mm 1/4" plate somehere. Was goin to use that then mill it down to say 4-5 mm.

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

so how much are drill bits Phill??? lol like $5 a piece?

also i still cant view that attachment? or link you posted on the nozzle???
thanks!
~Russ

[phil]

Ive got no idea how much drill bits that small are.

Ive posted a drawing thru his letterbox, ill just wait for him to get back to me with an estimate.

   

Heres a different pic, it was just a picture of a watering can nozzle anyway.

If you let me know the diameter of the tube you plan to pipe your hho thru ill do some calculation and try and get the area of holes to match the bore of your tube for best flow.

I did ask him if he can stack multiple plates and drill more than 1 at once, he wasnt too keen, said any slight movement may damage the bit or things just not line up when its done.

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-31-2011 05:04 PM)phil Wrote:  Ive got no idea how much drill bits that small are.

Ive posted a drawing thru his letterbox, ill just wait for him to get back to me with an estimate.



Heres a different pic, it was just a picture of a watering can nozzle anyway.

If you let me know the diameter of the tube you plan to pipe your hho thru ill do some calculation and try and get the area of holes to match the bore of your tube for best flow.

I did ask him if he can stack multiple plates and drill more than 1 at once, he wasnt too keen, said any slight movement may damage the bit or things just not line up when its done.

here are some .015" drill bits... but will they do ceramic?

http://www.houseofhobbies.com/wa790didrbit.html

either way that's not bed. but overall i still think there is something that is already maid for this... its just where can we get it.

I also don't think just a disk with holes will work correctly. but im not sure...

i will get some dimensions and stuff up soon

~Russ

[phil]

What about hypodremic needles? how big are the holes thru the middle of those? I know they are measured in guages but got no idea of the bore size. Or capiliary glass tubes? Glue a bundle of those together and feed the gas thru the bunch.

---

22 guage hypodermics have a bore of 0.01625 inch

23 guage hypodermics have a bore of 0.01325 inch

I'd be inclined to go for the slightly smaller 23 guage, but i guess it will serve the pupose, theyre just tiny stainless steel tubes, might be an idea to take the points off before playing around with these

---

Heres the glass tubes, they do 3 kinds of glass, borosilicate, quartz and special. Boro and special are not that expensive, quartz is a bit more pricey. 0.015" is 0.38mm. They do a bore size of 0.3 mm.

http://www.capillarytubes.co.uk/acatalog...Tubes.html

[Blazer]

(10-31-2011 08:18 AM)phil Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 06:40 PM)Blazer Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 12:54 PM)phil Wrote:  Try this pic.

He came out today when i was tinkering with the scooter this morning and i explained what was needed. I told him think of a watering can nozzle with 0.015" holes.
He said its the drill bits that are expensive, not the labour or anything else.
Price will depend if the boss is around when he does it.
I said id cut the disc and get it all marked out first so all he has to do is drill the holes. Ive got to drop a sketch thru his door and he's gonna let mey know the price.

Is it possible to drill the holes but not go all the way thru then cut the disc to its final dimension? If you do it that way you may not break as many bits.

I was thinking that, im sure I've got some 6mm 1/4" plate somehere. Was goin to use that then mill it down to say 4-5 mm.

I was more thinking end drilling into some bar stock then cutting them off on a lathe.

[phil]

(11-02-2011 08:35 PM)Blazer Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 08:18 AM)phil Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 06:40 PM)Blazer Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 12:54 PM)phil Wrote:  Try this pic.

He came out today when i was tinkering with the scooter this morning and i explained what was needed. I told him think of a watering can nozzle with 0.015" holes.
He said its the drill bits that are expensive, not the labor or anything else.
Price will depend if the boss is around when he does it.
I said id cut the disk and get it all marked out first so all he has to do is drill the holes. Ive got to drop a sketch thru his door and he's gonna let me know the price.

Is it possible to drill the holes but not go all the way thru then cut the disk to its final dimension? If you do it that way you may not break as many bits.

I was thinking that, I'm sure I've got some 6mm 1/4" plate somewhere. Was going to use that then mill it down to say 4-5 mm.

I was more thinking end drilling into some bar stock then cutting them off on a lathe.

the only drawback with aluminium is it likes to expand when it warms up. Maybe a low expansion alloy, aluminium with a high silicon content like what is used for cylinder heads on engines. But to test the theory it should be fine.

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(11-04-2011 07:59 AM)phil Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:35 PM)Blazer Wrote:  

(10-31-2011 08:18 AM)phil Wrote:  

(10-30-2011 06:40 PM)Blazer Wrote:  Is it possible to drill the holes but not go all the way thru then cut the disk to its final dimension? If you do it that way you may not break as many bits.

I was thinking that, I'm sure I've got some 6mm 1/4" plate somewhere. Was going to use that then mill it down to say 4-5 mm.

I was more thinking end drilling into some bar stock then cutting them off on a lathe.

the only drawback with aluminium is it likes to expand when it warms up. Maybe a low expansion alloy, aluminium with a high silicon content like what is used for cylinder heads on engines. But to test the theory it should be fine.

ok everyone, some good ideas here thinking out side the box is a good thing!

BUT!

i would like to get some of the Ceramic disks that i posted on the first post.

Quote:Key Functions
Flame Arresting : In an event of sparking outside a battery, they prevent the propagation/ ingress of flame from outside to inside by the use of a matrix of uniform openings that are carefully constructed to quench the flame by absorbing the head of the flame. This provides an extinguishing barrier to the ignited flame.

the reason i wanted something "off the shelf" is so we all could just get one instead of making it. but...

none the less. keep up the out of box thinking...

~Russ

[phil]

I can only suggest to try a scrap yard/ recycling yard if you want to rip batteries apart to get something out the inside, after all they want the lead and youd probly be doing them a favour getting it out for them.

Or something commonly availiable with a micro porus structure and cheap, activated charcoal for odour filters/fish tank filters?

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

And there it is. Good call on the porous stones.

How to make a Flashback Arrestor...

[firepinto]

(11-04-2011 07:16 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  And there it is. Good call on the porous stones.

How to make a Flashback Arrestor...

That was pretty cool in slow mo.. I still dont think I would stand in front of the cell testing that lol. Who knows if one of the stones cracks apart during the flash back before the last one that makes a mess. Looks like its the right idea though.

Nate

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(11-04-2011 08:21 PM)firepinto Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 07:16 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  And there it is. Good call on the porous stones.

How to make a Flashback Arrestor...

That was pretty cool in slow mo.. I still dont think I would stand in front of the cell testing that lol. Who knows if one of the stones cracks apart during the flash back before the last one that makes a mess. Looks like its the right idea though.

Nate

All, air stones are a good idea, BUT! Sadly I have heard that these stones are not good for this application. The stones are not built to withstand the force that the H H O will give when lit like this.

Overall I have stoped by a battery place an found some old caps. Found some plastic aresters but not ceramic.

Non the less I see the flow rate of being a problem.

Any hoo, just for safety's sake, I will pass on the air stone and try the battery vent...

Hope for testing soon.

Thanks guys!!!

~Russ

[phil]

(11-04-2011 09:15 PM)Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 08:21 PM)firepinto Wrote:  

(11-04-2011 07:16 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  And there it is. Good call on the porous stones.

How to make a Flashback Arrestor...

That was pretty cool in slow mo.. I still dont think I would stand in front of the cell testing that lol. Who knows if one of the stones cracks apart during the flash back before the last one that makes a mess. Looks like its the right idea though.

Nate

All, air stones are a good idea, BUT! Sadly I have heard that these stones are not good for this application. The stones are not built to withstand the force that the H H O will give when lit like this.

Overall I have stoped by a battery place an found some old caps. Found some plastic aresters but not ceramic.

Non the less I see the flow rate of being a problem.

Any hoo, just for safety's sake, I will pass on the air stone and try the battery vent...

Hope for testing soon.

Thanks guys!!!

~Russ

It may not be safe but at least it works. What about a coral type substance? Or those things parrots have in their cages to chew on? Or those stones people have in their baths to scrub off dead skin?
With regard to holes i did a bit of a calculation and if you were piping your HHO down a 10mm bore tube you would need about 800 0.015 inch holes to equal the same cross sectional area as the 10mm tube. Thats a lot of holes!