VIC Coil

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

Looking to get started on a VIC... Please post any VIC stuff here. Thanks

[txqNL]

(08-27-2011 09:33 AM)dirtwill Wrote:  Looking to get started on a VIC... Please post any VIC stuff here. Thanks

That is looking very good, where can I buy lol

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

I am Hearing that This is a more efficient type of VIC



H20power build:http://open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=92

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http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=999
Just found this here...

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

Quoted from: http://rwgresearch.com/open-projects/sta...%E2%80%9D/
Here one will find Stan’s VIC next to my test VIC. Once I get things the way I like it I will give out the specs of my VIC to work with the Test Cell and you can try it for your self!



This is an iron core for testing. The finished coil will have a Ferrite core.


This is my VIC bobbin I’m using. Its extremely close to Stan’s original equipment. The main difference is that Stan’s was using a flat core you can in the next photo.





Here one can see how the card fits on to the VIC



Here one can see all the VIC's and cards for the Fuel cell.

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Also something totally different, but super efficient


Take from here : page 3 - 7
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

Hey H20, What are the physical components used for the Alternate power/Switching gate?

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

So Matt and I are thinking about using microwave transformers to get our high voltage. Pulsed by the frequency generator.

I guess after the transformer we should make the bi-filar coil to act as a choke?

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(09-30-2011 04:39 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  So Matt and I are thinking about using microwave transformers to get our high voltage. Pulsed by the frequency generator.

I guess after the transformer we should make the bi-filar coil to act as a choke?

Vic coils act in a verry defrent way.

See the high voltage comes from step charging the water cap.

The VIC coil is a step up transformer. But only 12v to 360v it's a 1:30 step up transformer. Then the resonant charging chokes are where the amps are held back and the LCR circuit starts to take over. And the diode is there so the cap dose not discharge and other stuff that is unknown at the moment...

basically what I'm saying is you don't want to transform 12v to 12000v but let the LRC circuit do it for You.

More later.

~Russ

[bussi04]

We are all using different cores.

so core sizes and wire lengths are interesting but not sufficient.

to get a common base for testing it´s necessary to exchange values that are comparable.

so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.

bussi04

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

(10-01-2011 03:15 AM)bussi04 Wrote:  so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.
bussi04

I dont think I understood any of that. Please elaborate on your ideas.

Tesla Bi-filar

[bussi04]

(10-01-2011 08:43 AM)dirtwill Wrote:  

(10-01-2011 03:15 AM)bussi04 Wrote:  so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.
bussi04

I dont think I understood any of that. Please elaborate on your ideas.

Tesla Bi-filar

I defined a set of electrical values taken from datasheets or calculations each of us should publish here in the thread instead of pictures and number of turns. those pics and number of turns don´t allow to compare anything in practical experiments.

as an example:
taking a stanley meyer steel core without defined AL value etc. and adding the information "primary 100 turns" is quite useless. more useful is a value like 100 mH that can be used for calculations in electronic circuits. once you are using another core with a higher AL value than Stan Meyer´s steel core you will have a completely different turn count for the same induction.

hope that helps to make clear what I wanted to state.

bussi04

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-01-2011 12:23 PM)bussi04 Wrote:  

(10-01-2011 08:43 AM)dirtwill Wrote:  

(10-01-2011 03:15 AM)bussi04 Wrote:  so I want to suggest to exchange electrical values like inductance of each coil at a given frequency (i.e. 1 kHz), Al value of the core and Amin for the effective core diameter. also wire diameter or at least RMS amp flow expected are necessary for exchange.

Adding min and max pulsing frequency shooting for and of course primary pulsing voltage range shall be a minimum set of values worth for exchange.
bussi04

I dont think I understood any of that. Please elaborate on your ideas.

Tesla Bi-filar

I defined a set of electrical values taken from datasheets or calculations each of us should publish here in the thread instead of pictures and number of turns. those pics and number of turns don´t allow to compare anything in practical experiments.

as an example:
taking a stanley meyer steel core without defined AL value etc. and adding the information "primary 100 turns" is quite useless. more useful is a value like 100 mH that can be used for calculations in electronic circuits. once you are using another core with a higher AL value than Stan Meyer´s steel core you will have a completely different turn count for the same induction.

hope that helps to make clear what I wanted to state.

bussi04

agreed! This is what we need to do.

I will be posting my data so far ASAP!

I will post a'n excell sheet. So we can download and add to the file then upload it. This will help up keep organized.

Sweet!

~Russ

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Ca...45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-05-2011 11:52 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Ca...45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay

good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

(10-06-2011 09:24 AM)Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(10-05-2011 11:52 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Ca...45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay

good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ

Ok done... $34 with shipping . Frequency and inductance
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180614882090?ssPa...1439.l2649

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-06-2011 11:25 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  

(10-06-2011 09:24 AM)Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(10-05-2011 11:52 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Ca...45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay

good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ

Ok done... $34 with shipping . Frequency and inductance
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180614882090?ssPa...1439.l2649

sweet! looks good.

~Russ

[KevinW_EnhancedLiving]

[/code]

(10-06-2011 09:24 AM)Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(10-05-2011 11:52 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Ca...45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay

good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ

Hey Russ I am trying to make sense of your VIC datasheet.

Which color is what coil? Primary, secondary, feedback and chokes.
Also your datasheet has two different feedback, why is that?



Thanks... I'll be shipping your board on Tuesday. Monday is canada thanksgiving.

Later

[~Russ/Rwg42985]

(10-09-2011 11:37 AM)dirtwill Wrote:  [/code]

(10-06-2011 09:24 AM)Rwg42985 Wrote:  

(10-05-2011 11:52 PM)dirtwill Wrote:  http://www.diygallery.de/DIYsites/inductor.html
I found this Helpfull

So are you guys saying we should have a meter that reads Inductance?Like H or mH? for proper testing?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LCR-Inductance-Ca...45f2588043
LCR Inductance Capacitance Digital Multimeter Meter RCL
$20 on ebay

good find, i have one just like this that was donated to me. it works ok but there is no frequency selector. i will be getting a much better LRC meter.

also, attached is the VIC readings of my VIC. you can make a new "sheet" at the bottom and enter your test results.

Then re upload the file. we can just keep updating this excel file as we progress.

my stuff is kinda sloppy... but that's what i got... if some one wants to make a better spreed sheet. that's cool!

thanks, ~Russ

Hey Russ I am trying to make sense of your VIC datasheet.

Which color is what coil? Primary, secondary, feedback and chokes.
Also your datasheet has two different feedback, why is that?



Thanks... I'll be shipping your board on Tuesday. Monday is Canada thanksgiving.

Later

Updated the DOC. See notes in the top right side of the Sheet.

there is 2 pickup coils as that is what Stan had... see attached photo:

thanks! ~Russ

[bussi04]

I have posted my first experiences with my pancake style VIC here http://open-source-energy.org/forum/show...27#pid1327

bussi04

[phil]

I see a few similarities between the VIC coil and the rhumkoff coil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_coil

Construction details.
To prevent the high voltages generated in the coil from breaking down the thin insulation and arcing between the secondary wires, the secondary coil uses special construction so as to avoid having wires carrying large voltage differences lying next to each other. The secondary coil is wound in many thin flat pancake-shaped sections (called "pies"), connected in series. The primary coil is first wound on the iron core, and insulated from the secondary with a thick paper or rubber coating. Then each secondary subcoil is coated with an insulating layer like paraffin, connected to the coil next to it, and slid onto the iron core, insulated from adjoining coils with paper disks. The voltage developed in each subcoil isn't large enough to jump between the wires in the subcoil. Large voltages are only developed across many subcoils in series, which are too widely separated to arc over.

Its old-tech but may be worthy of some further study.

To prevent eddy currents, which flow perpendicular to the magnetic axis, and cause energy losses, the iron core is made of a bundle of parallel iron wires, individually coated with shellac to insulate them electrically. The ends of the primary coil often protruded several inches from either end of the secondary coil, to prevent arcs from the secondary to the primary or the core.

[bussi04]

Phil,

I agree, for inner secondary and outer chokes I used pie divided pancake style windings. due to the concentric structure of the bobbins special care must be taken at the wire entry points because there the complete voltage difference occurs. so I think my next transformer will have entry and exit points for a winding at opposite sides.

I calculated windings space volume needed with a selfmade excel sheet. for winding efficiency I took 98%. that showed to be a much too optimistic point of view.

In the German version of Wikipedia I found an article about different winding techniques and the technique I used was called "wild winding" on the opposite of orthocyclic winding technique (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spulenwickeltechnik).

so I read and found out in practical terms that 73% winding efficiency for wild windings is more what can be expected.

It´s time for my next more elaborated VIC,

bussi04