Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.

~Russ

Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« on July 29th, 2012, 10:14 PM »Last edited on May 9th, 2013, 02:53 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA" Ppap Engine". Times Just Turned... Or Did It? We Will See!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSyASN_t-BQ

Please see below for more info.

here are the videos presented by sterling Allan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4e-8OE_vMo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkX69BA35_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOwmDZX5Zg

here is smartscarecrows live feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDqc-SxKgoY

other info:

http://plasmerg.com/

 "ppap engine, noble gas drivers system"  A Must Watch!  Video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKm09vJQdqQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

i cant thank you all enough for the support! it is needed and appreciated.
 This project is fully-funded by ethos Pete. thank you Pete!!!! your a blessing and with you and everyone help we will succeed !!! I Believe!

there may also be more info you will want to see here:

http://iaec.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=699

link to popper drawings: http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=659&pid=15176#pid15176

~Russ

element 119

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #1, on July 29th, 2012, 11:59 PM »
That is very exciting !!! I can’t wait to see this Popper build.

I have been interested in this motor for awhile now and I can’t wait to get my hands on one of those 2 cylinder opposed boxer motors. If I understand correctly the engine can run as long as 4 months or more non-stop on a few dollars worth of noble gasses.

That should put the gasoline companies of business so I plan to buy as much reserve noble gas mix as I can before someone gets the bright idea to start selling these noble gasses for ridicules high price. We know if they can’t make money off gasoline then they will find a way to make it off of the noble gasses.

Exciting stuff can’t wait for the Popper build.

Thanks ethos Pete and Russ.

element 119

HHO4Life

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #2, on July 30th, 2012, 04:43 AM »Last edited on July 30th, 2012, 04:46 AM by HHO4Life
Sweet man I was wanting to order one of these kits myself! Well it will be in the right hands, Russ you definitely have the skills and know how to prove or disprove this device! Can't wait to see how well it works! It definitely makes since how the coiling would keep the plasma reaction cantered and controlled in the tube! The great thing about it is that you can keep reusing the same gas over and over again tell there is nothing left to use! This could definitely potentially be an energy saver in many different ways!
Oh by the way here is the link to their other website!

http://inteligentry.com/

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #3, on July 30th, 2012, 05:21 AM »
I'm excited to Russ, looks promising.:cool:
RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #4, on July 30th, 2012, 03:52 PM »
Say guy's, thought this would be appropriate to post this here, it's the six noble gasses on the wiki, interesting reading, also about the ionization of these gasses
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas
enjoy, Jeff.:cool::D:P

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #5, on July 31st, 2012, 03:16 AM »Last edited on July 31st, 2012, 03:17 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
hey guys, Check it:

http://www.rohnermachine.com/pageVideos.html

and the updates page also! no dought! lets do it!

Jeff Nading


~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #7, on July 31st, 2012, 08:36 AM »
Good buddy tinman sent this to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=g-hist

This is also the same as on the updates page of that last link but much better on exclamation!

Good stuff!
RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #8, on July 31st, 2012, 09:15 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 31st, 2012, 08:36 AM
Good buddy tinman sent this to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=g-hist

This is also the same as on the updates page of that last link but much better on exclamation!

Good stuff!
Hummmm....

7:20

These are the electrodes???

"bucket" aluminum tube
Thorium and Rubidium
Thorium and red phosphorus
Two tungsten electrodes

Looks like 2 are connected to the 2 opposing electrodes

The other two look like standard electrodes. But the opposing electrodes are connected to a separate box???

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #9, on July 31st, 2012, 09:17 AM »Last edited on July 31st, 2012, 01:28 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
Wow this is all very extraordinary.

Is the guy in this new video the same guy from the older low quality video?

What a great find Tinman!!! Thanks so much!


Russ it seem like that hour long low quality vid was messed up. The second half hour of the video was just a repeat of the first half..??
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 31st, 2012, 08:36 AM
Good buddy tinman sent this to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=g-hist

This is also the same as on the updates page of that last link but much better on exclamation!

Good stuff!

Vulcain67

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #10, on July 31st, 2012, 01:36 PM »
I find that's more interesting than Stanley Meyer's inventions.

But we start à lots of things and nothing work !!!

element 119

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #11, on July 31st, 2012, 03:01 PM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 31st, 2012, 03:16 AM
hey guys, Check it:

http://www.rohnermachine.com/pageVideos.html

and the updates page also! no dought! lets do it!
I have been following this for a while and I would caution that there are two brothers and they followed different paths on the Ppap engine.

Bob Rohner is the one in these videos but it is John Rohner that has the Popper build. Also it is John that is ready to go into production with the Boxer motor.

John’s motor does not use any exotic materials just the noble gasses. I would trust the guy that is ready to go into production more then the other guy but that is just my opinion.

While much could be learned from both brothers John appears to be much further along in the development. Also note that these two brothers are not getting along with each other.  

Russ

Maybe keep in mind when you build the Popper of a way to turn this into a piston attached to a wheel to do some continuous motion like running a generator. Just a thought.

element 119

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #12, on July 31st, 2012, 11:54 PM »Last edited on July 31st, 2012, 11:56 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from element 119 on July 31st, 2012, 03:01 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 31st, 2012, 03:16 AM
hey guys, Check it:

http://www.rohnermachine.com/pageVideos.html

and the updates page also! no dought! lets do it!
I have been following this for a while and I would caution that there are two brothers and they followed different paths on the Ppap engine.

Bob Rohner is the one in these videos but it is John Rohner that has the Popper build. Also it is John that is ready to go into production with the Boxer motor.

John’s motor does not use any exotic materials just the noble gasses. I would trust the guy that is ready to go into production more then the other guy but that is just my opinion.

While much could be learned from both brothers John appears to be much further along in the development. Also note that these two brothers are not getting along with each other.  

Russ

Maybe keep in mind when you build the Popper of a way to turn this into a piston attached to a wheel to do some continuous motion like running a generator. Just a thought.

element 119
hummmm i was wondering.

so the one i'm working on dose not have the the exotic materials... ok...

indeed i will keep in mined to dezigned in the piston/cam/rotating...

one thing is i think it needs to be a 2 cylinder after reviewing all the info i have found so far...

keep up the good comments!
~Russ
RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #13, on August 1st, 2012, 12:03 AM »Last edited on August 1st, 2012, 12:04 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
other information:

from : http://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/#comment-318
Quote
Papps Noble Gas engine – a ZPE theory
Posted on March 28, 2011   

francis
Sun, 27 Mar 2011 07:04:36 -0700

"The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine"  by Eugene F.
Mallove http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html and an
April 2 article by Sterling D. Allan, with Hank Mills on the current
status titled Noble Gas Engine Ready for Production Investment are both similar
to the ZPE reaction that I am proposing.

The papp engine utilized a combustion chamber but not combustion to power his
engine.His engine instead generates plasma during the combustion phase to drive
the piston back up and cool the gases. there is no exhaust or fuel consumed -
the gas mixture is hermetically sealed in the chambers and oscillates between
expanded and contracted statesthrough an exotic configuration of Casimir
supression and gas law where ZPE repeatedly disassociates gas molecules to
 form plasma and heat the compressed gas.

I had previously assumed that noble gases would ONLY act as insulators helping to isolate
conductive/catalytic pockets of gas geometrym inside a combustion chamber similar
to the way Haisch and Moddel’s prototype has insulating layers between the active Casimir/catalytic layers to force the migrating gases to translate through a wide range of vacuum energy density (what Mills calls hydrino states but
others refer to as “fractional or relativistic orbital states) – Haisch and Moddel concentrated on the Lamb pinch with unheated noble gas while I suggest their environment could be utilized to force catalytic disassociation of diatomic gases like hydrogen. My premise being that any molecular gas opposes the translation to different vacuum energy densities while atomic gas translates freely creating an asymmetrical path. This concept would go unnoticed and unexploited on the macro scale since such changes only occur on a large scale as the result of a gravitational gradient where energy density increases as you travel deeper into a gravity well. At the nano scale however you have a break in this isotropy due to suppression induced by Casimir geometry. It is my position that change in this Casimir geometry is responsible for catalytic action. Unlike the increased energy density due to a gravity well we see decreased energy density due to suppression and it occurs abruptly at the plates/ walls of a Casimir cavity. These walls can take the form of a compressed meniscus in a liquid medium and should have a gaseous equivalent when different gases of different bonding affinities are rapidly mixed in a COMBUSTION chamber. After reading the article above it is clear there was no combustion occurring in the Papp engine as there was no exhaust. I humbly suggest this was an endless ZPE reaction that catalytically disassociated noble gas compounds – Wikipedia does list a limited number of chemical compounds that noble gases can form so it could act as both monatomic insulator and reactant compound. Once disassociated the atomic gases translate freely to the current vacuum energy density and are then free to reform their chemical compounds at the local energy density and release energy as they reform compounds and fall to the lower energy state. The catalytic disassociation replenishes the atomic energy state each time courtesy of ZPE. The heat released by this process would be self limiting since it pushes the piston back up to both cool the plasma and release the pressure causing these bubble like pockets of Casimir geometry. I think the spark mechanism may have been more to keep the mechanical timing and crank direction under control or you would get frequent reversals and possible explosions and so you would want to run it just below threshold and use the spark to delay the reaction past top dead center – I think a multiple cylinder engine would have been much safer.RegardsFran

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:44 Robin wrote

Don't forget that there is likely to be a fair bit of free Hydrogen in a

normal IC engine running on gasoline, which after all is a "Hydro"-carbon.

So if H is anywhere near a reasonable catalyst, then we are likely already

seeing Hydrino energy in normal combustion engines.  

also Note that several noble gasses (He, Ar, Ne, perhaps Xe) also act
as Mills catalysts.
------------------------------------------------

reply to Robin

Yes hydrino combustion probably is occurring inside a normal ICE to a
limited degree
but I am still convinced that oxygen is the bane of this reaction.
Combustion is a one
way reaction that removes the hydrogen. If the plasma can be oxygen starved
the fractional/ hydrino
states can Continue to expand over a wider range. I think a diesel like
heater in the ICE could
bring a noncombustible mix of hydrogen and other gases up close to the
threshold of a runaway ZPE reaction and then the piston stroke would act
like the PWM in the Rossi device to compress the plasma over the threshold
in one direction then reverses to expand and cool the plasma back under the
threshold. My posit of an endless ashless reaction is based on a super
catalytic disassociation where nano geometry pockets of catalyst gas oppose
and disassociate molecular hydrogen or hydrinos - I don't think the
fractional states would be as acute as in a solid skeletal cat or nano
powders but there is no danger of damaging the geometry since they are
constantly reforming in a gas medium similar to bubbles in the liquid medium
of bubble fusion. IMHO the dihydrinos would disassociate/reform multiple
times giving off heat every time they reform to heat the gas and push the
piston back up.
Regards

Fran

RE: [Vo]:Papp engine
Jones Beene Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:10:16 -0700

From: Fran Roarty

[snip]“The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine”
by Eugene F. Mallove
http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html
is a similar ZPE reaction to the one I am proposing.[/snip]
Since you mention this, Fran, let me add another thought - in which the
role of xenon oxide should be mentioned along with the Casimir repulsive
force. Gene’s fine article was a classic, yet it did not revive interest
in this engine among top level researchers - other than the four
different groups of people who had been associated with Papp, and who
had seen the engine working. Millions were spent by them but with no
reliable proof that the effect has been replicated. No theoretician
seems to have been able to find any conceivable way that it
could have worked.

All of the experts were probably hindered by one primary expectation.
 Since it was based on a converted piston engine, it had to be a heat
engine. Probably wrong! If today’s speculation is correct, then Papp’s
crazy design is not and never was a heat-engine, and in fact he may
have inadvertently found that ZPE can operate best as a heat sink.
Admittedly several other explanations for Papp have seemed partly
accurate in past analyses, but they assume that hydrogen was present,
 and there is no indication of that. Oxygen would be easier to imagine
as a contaminant, if it were not intentionally added. It is possible
that today’s proposed mechanism can operate best when physical
nano-cavities are present, but a gas plasma is also functional - since
so called “Casimir cooling” occurs in a medium via a Casimir repulsive
force, operating on curved surfaces where an inert molecule
like xenon might qualify as the active sphere for the cooling effect.

We know for sure that xenon was one of Papp’s active gases, and that
xenon is known to have both chemical and nuclear metastability. I am
assuming, as Mallove did (and as the record shows), that Papp’s engine
 was demonstrated successfully on several occasions. I think we can
even identify the molecule that caused the Feynman-instigated explosion
 at the infamous demo – the one that cost Caltech a handsome sum and
cost one bystander his life… did we need to add a little extra drama
to this story?

Specifically, xenon tetroxide is a chemical compound of xenon and
oxygen: XeO4. It is remarkable for being a stable compound below −36 °C;
 but above that temperature it becomes violently explosive. This
combination of properties is what you want for use as a ZPE or ZPED
“cold pump” since you can possibly get anomalous shock waves by
capitalizing on the “cold side”, and at low effective
temperature (due to Boyles law). You can call it “reusable TNT” but it is
another version of the “entropic explosion” (shock wave without heat)
which has been referred to here before. It would be an ideal way to
 “pump” ZPE.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg15977.html

How to cycle between temperature extremes then becomes the overriding issue
with a piston engine. Fortunately every piston engine is also a vacuum pump in
disguise. You may need extra cooling of the cylinder head to keep it at ambient
or below and the engine will run cold naturally. There is a partial vacuum fill
of gases, and a high compression ratio to invoked the heat-pump effect and then
Joule-Thomson takes care of the rest. At bottom dead center of the stroke you
have a cold plasma from a shock wave which has dissipated without a heat
signature.

The electron configuration of xenon in its metastable chemical state consists
of tightly bound core electrons with a missing electron in the 5P shell, and a
loosely bound valence electron in the 6S shell. Thus it will lase under proper
conditions. It is tempting to attempt to connect orbital photon pumping
(lasing) with ZPE pumping – and in a few elements this could happen, but I can
find no authoritative source for that proposition.

Additionally it can be noted that the “xenon excimer laser” typically uses a
combination of a noble gases with a reactive oxidant like fluorine. Under the
appropriate conditions, a “pseudo-molecule” called an “excimer” is created,
which can only exist in an energized state and produces coherent light in the
ultraviolet range on collapse. Normally this is conservative and lossy but this
is only a metaphor for an inverse process. In the Papp engine, even if xenon
does not oxidize all the way to the tetroxide, it could easily form an excimer
when rapidly cooled from a previous shock wave.

The employment of oxygen instead of fluorine can make something happen under
extremely cold transitory conditions, as with Joule-Thomson expansion
(throttling) in a cold plasma. A design which provides mechanical torque can
depend on a shock wave in the absence of temperature differential, due to this
little known property (little known, unless you design automotive air-bags or
read vortex). This mechanism is known as the “entropic explosion” – or heatless
shock wave. Essentially, this converts “coldness” into torque, and then into
usable energy, in a proper design. :-)

With a high compression ratio, it could be possible to cycle a low pressure gas
fill between ambient and minus 36 °C, on every single revolution of the engine
- so long as an adiabatic process is avoided.  But by permitting Boyle’s Law to
operate using a mix of gases with one of them being helium, thermodynamic
expectations become altered, and so my suggestion today is that this is the way
Papp avoided the adiabatic process.

These thermodynamics, if this speculation is accurate, would have been
completely unknown to Papp, and maybe to Feynman, but the engine worked (at
least it worked on occasion when curious onlookers from Caltech were not
tempted to unplug the temperature control unit). Aside from that, relevant
details are still unknown and that probably goes back to the fact that Papp,
like Andrea Rossi, could have gotten lucky in the lab and not had a clue about
what they had found, due to paranoia at having the invention stolen.

BTW I’m referring to the strange “inversion temperature” of helium once again
in the above scenario, since of all exploitable physical properties, it seems
to be the one which can be tied directly to the zero point field.

Think about an ‘alternative universe’ in which the great Feynman really was
great (instead of above-average) and in which there was no OPEC, no Gulf Wars
and no trillion dollar deficits, due to the discovery 40 years ago - of a brand
new energy source. IOW a real genius was present at this demo who was able to
override natural skepticism and figure this one out from the start.

Ironically, the rights to the Papp engine could probably have been purchased by
Caltech for less than had to pay for the fatality.

Jones

Jeff Nading

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #14, on August 1st, 2012, 04:52 AM »Last edited on August 1st, 2012, 04:52 AM by Jeff Nading
How about setting up an Arduino mega to run this engine, I think it would also need hall effect transducers
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor
for timing of motion, to fire the electronics at the right time. They say their engine will produce 180 HP, 2 cylinders, I think that could be doubled or close to it with four cylinders, would produce at least 300 HP, enough to move a car or light truck, 6 cylinders would be better yet. An aluminum block, virtually no heat involved, no radiator, no water jacket or pump. I see this really taking off. Wish I had the money to become one of the engine builders, what a trip that would be.:cool::D:P

TinMan

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #15, on August 1st, 2012, 05:33 AM »
Hi Guy.
I will be giveing some input into this in the form of an engin setup i designed about a year ago.I have been waiting for the right fuel to run this engin,and this is it.
My design with put out 3 to 4 time's the torque of a standard I.C.E with the same size cylender but shorter stroke.
I will be giveing this design to Russ as soon as he has that thing popping .
The standard I.C.E configuration is about 38% efficient at best in converting pistion force into rotating force.
My design will bring that efficiency up to about 85% in mechanical rotation.
As soon as Russ starts his build-i will start on a small modle of my engin design.
As i dont have a noble gas popper ,i will be useing a magnetic pulsed pistion to simulate the noble gas pulse.This will allow you to see the design working,and how suitable it will be for this noble gas setup

bjrohner

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #16, on August 1st, 2012, 07:53 AM »Last edited on August 1st, 2012, 08:34 AM by bjrohner
Gentlemen
If I may make a few comments and suggestions.  Dr. Dr. John's engine is not a boxer engine. The pistons run at 180 degrees to each other in a boxer and the system is inherently balanced. The inteligentry engine is commonly referred to as a paint-shaker as should be obvious to all.

While Dr. Dr. John has built a paint-shaker engine it is essentially useless. You cannot support over a thousand lbs of torque with a motorcycle crank. You cannot balance the engine in any manner. You cannot run ball bearing without high pressure lubrication for more that a short period of time at this load. The lubrication will contaminate any gas recycling and the assumption that the gas will recycle on it's own is incorrect. Most significantly, you cannot seal inert gasses with an o ring.

Please remember that despite all the rhetoric you have read from Dr. John. Not one bit of substantiation or verification has ever been presented.  Even Sterling Allen who is on Dr. Johns payroll has to admit that Dr. John was lying about having ever having ran anything. It is disappointing to me that supposedly intelligent and highly technical people such as yourself can be so easily fooled. Be open minded but apply simple logic no matter how badly you want things to be real.  

I'm not sure what you mean by exotics but rest assured it's not in our engine or single cylinder test fixtures.  Yes we use thorium right out of a gas lamp mantle - is that what you mean.

You will discover after you start on the unit that you will need to spend a few thousand more and in all likelyhood it will still not work. Evidence of this inability should be obvious as you view the very weak spring and balloon setup which may
register the heat input from 160000 volt input. Remember that Dr. John claims this is the same process that will produce a piston force of well over a ton and a half. Do you see a single component in this popper that will take such abuse.

I can't help you as far as building a real one with massive power output as I am a part of a for-profit business, However, our processes is amply protected by numerous provisional patents and  I am willing to help you with suggestions of needed items and verifications procedures. I am after all an engineer and just as curious as all of you about everything new. Good luck to you.

Bob Rohner       www.rohnermachine.com     www.pappengine.com/
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on July 31st, 2012, 09:17 AM
Wow this is all very extraordinary.

Is the guy in this new video the same guy from the older low quality video?

What a great find Tinman!!! Thanks so much!


Russ it seem like that hour long low quality vid was messed up. The second half hour of the video was just a repeat of the first half..??
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 31st, 2012, 08:36 AM
Good buddy tinman sent this to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=g-hist

This is also the same as on the updates page of that last link but much better on exclamation!

Good stuff!
Gentlemen

Thank you for displaying our Rohner Group videos. This particular video was made
by Dannel Roberts along with myself. On the utube video Dannel has added his thoughts and explanation of what is occurring. Dannel is a member of our LLC and has asked to present new ideas in physics. Dannel along with world renown physicist, Dr. Michael McKubre (google him) took part in our Tesla presentation last week.  We presented to Mike a twenty minute video of the single cylinder in operation at approximately 30 strokes per minute lifting a load of 360 lbs. The resultant temperature rise was only 2 degrees. Impossible but true. I will post a copy of the presentation and comments on my website in the next day or two. It may give you some ideas of how to proceed yourselves.

Remember when you view this stuff that everything you see belongs to the Rohner Group (Bob and Tom Rohner) who are in no way affiliated with Dr. Dr. John Rohner and his numerous companies. You will not see anything operational on the web except our videos of our workmanship.  Elsewhere is only copies,  rhetoric, and empty claims.

Bob Rohner     www.rohnermachine.com      www.pappengine.com

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #17, on August 1st, 2012, 09:23 AM »Last edited on August 1st, 2012, 09:24 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from element 119 on July 31st, 2012, 03:01 PM
I have been following this for a while and I would caution that there are two brothers and they followed different paths on the Ppap engine.

Bob Rohner is the one in these videos but it is John Rohner that has the Popper build. Also it is John that is ready to go into production with the Boxer motor.

John’s motor does not use any exotic materials just the noble gasses. I would trust the guy that is ready to go into production more then the other guy but that is just my opinion.

While much could be learned from both brothers John appears to be much further along in the development. Also note that these two brothers are not getting along with each other.
This confirms and makes a lot of what you were saying here more clear.
This was last years tesla tech and makes a lot more sense now that we know what the plan is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CNpW3r1Tc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks,
~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #18, on August 1st, 2012, 09:51 AM »Last edited on August 1st, 2012, 09:59 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote from bjrohner on August 1st, 2012, 07:53 AM
Gentlemen
If I may make a few comments and suggestions.  Dr. Dr. John's engine is not a boxer engine. The pistons run at 180 degrees to each other in a boxer and the system is inherently balanced. The inteligentry engine is commonly referred to as a paint-shaker as should be obvious to all.

While Dr. Dr. John has built a paint-shaker engine it is essentially useless. You cannot support over a thousand lbs of torque with a motorcycle crank. You cannot balance the engine in any manner. You cannot run ball bearing without high pressure lubrication for more that a short period of time at this load. The lubrication will contaminate any gas recycling and the assumption that the gas will recycle on it's own is incorrect. Most significantly, you cannot seal inert gasses with an o ring.

Please remember that despite all the rhetoric you have read from Dr. John. Not one bit of substantiation or verification has ever been presented.  Even Sterling Allen who is on Dr. Johns payroll has to admit that Dr. John was lying about having ever having ran anything. It is disappointing to me that supposedly intelligent and highly technical people such as yourself can be so easily fooled. Be open minded but apply simple logic no matter how badly you want things to be real.  

I'm not sure what you mean by exotics but rest assured it's not in our engine or single cylinder test fixtures.  Yes we use thorium right out of a gas lamp mantle - is that what you mean.

You will discover after you start on the unit that you will need to spend a few thousand more and in all likelyhood it will still not work. Evidence of this inability should be obvious as you view the very weak spring and balloon setup which may
register the heat input from 160000 volt input. Remember that Dr. John claims this is the same process that will produce a piston force of well over a ton and a half. Do you see a single component in this popper that will take such abuse.

I can't help you as far as building a real one with massive power output as I am a part of a for-profit business, However, our processes is amply protected by numerous provisional patents and  I am willing to help you with suggestions of needed items and verifications procedures. I am after all an engineer and just as curious as all of you about everything new. Good luck to you.

Bob Rohner       www.rohnermachine.com     www.pappengine.com/
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on July 31st, 2012, 09:17 AM
Wow this is all very extraordinary.

Is the guy in this new video the same guy from the older low quality video?

What a great find Tinman!!! Thanks so much!


Russ it seem like that hour long low quality vid was messed up. The second half hour of the video was just a repeat of the first half..??
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on July 31st, 2012, 08:36 AM
Good buddy tinman sent this to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=g-hist

This is also the same as on the updates page of that last link but much better on exclamation!

Good stuff!
Gentlemen

Thank you for displaying our Rohner Group videos. This particular video was made
by Dannel Roberts along with myself. On the utube video Dannel has added his thoughts and explanation of what is occurring. Dannel is a member of our LLC and has asked to present new ideas in physics. Dannel along with world renown physicist, Dr. Michael McKubre (google him) took part in our Tesla presentation last week.  We presented to Mike a twenty minute video of the single cylinder in operation at approximately 30 strokes per minute lifting a load of 360 lbs. The resultant temperature rise was only 2 degrees. Impossible but true. I will post a copy of the presentation and comments on my website in the next day or two. It may give you some ideas of how to proceed yourselves.

Remember when you view this stuff that everything you see belongs to the Rohner Group (Bob and Tom Rohner) who are in no way affiliated with Dr. Dr. John Rohner and his numerous companies. You will not see anything operational on the web except our videos of our workmanship.  Elsewhere is only copies,  rhetoric, and empty claims.

Bob Rohner     www.rohnermachine.com      www.pappengine.com
Bob, first, welcome, and thank you for the help and direction.

Could you do us all a favor and clear up who is with who between websites and things?  I'm still not hundred percent sure who is with who and what motors or engines are with what people.

I guess for some reason I'm still confused and want to make clear of the situation.

Your presence here means a lot. We would definitely like to experience this technology basically just better mankind. I understand that you're under an agreement and can't really give us much information. But your presence here and your guidance is beyond welcome. and we thank you for it.

It's good to clear up any confusion upon people because I am still very confused.

Anyway I'll await your reply and hopefully understand the situation a little bit better. This way we know where we're headed.

Thank you so much!!!!!!! Blessins! ~Russ

Also, do we or do we not need the radioactive electrodes/material to make this process work?

Lastly, I copied all of your videos from your website for off-line backup purposes only. Will you be okay if i collaborat the videos together and post exactly where they came from and then putting them on YouTube to be viewed easier? All contet will be linked to your web site with your permission?


We are looking forward to that video you will be posting! Please let us know when its up for viewing.


bjrohner

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #19, on August 1st, 2012, 10:58 AM »Last edited on August 1st, 2012, 09:58 PM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
Quote
Bob, first, welcome, and thank you for the help and direction.

Could you do us all a favor and clear up who is with who between websites and things?  I'm still not hundred percent sure who is with who and what motors or engines are with what people.

I guess for some reason I'm still confused and want to make clear of the situation.

Your presence here means a lot. We would definitely like to experience this technology basically just better mankind. I understand that you're under an agreement and can't really give us much information. But your presence here and your guidance is beyond welcome. and we thank you for it.

It's good to clear up any confusion upon people because I am still very confused.

Anyway I'll await your reply and hopefully understand the situation a little bit better. This way we know where we're headed.

Thank you so much!!!!!!! Blessins! ~Russ

Also, do we or do we not need the radioactive electrodes/material to make this process work?

Lastly, I copied all of your videos from your website for off-line backup purposes only. Will you be okay if i collaborat the videos together and post exactly where they came from and then putting them on YouTube to be viewed easier? All contet will be linked to your web site with your permission?


We are looking forward to that video you will be posting! Please let us know when its up for viewing.
Gentlement

First to clear things up - All equipment you see operating on any videos or web- sites including all three hundred of Dr. Dr. John's as well as Sabori's or anywhere were built by my Brother Tom and I. Tom was a hardware computer designer and I'm a mechanical Engineer. Any note attachments and voice overs associated with these videos are fakes. The flashy plasma forming videos you see on Sabori's tape were in fact created by a Mr. Herby Gambol from Oklahoma who we financed and who like yourself, had a driving need to know how things worked.

My site is www.rohnermachine.com. My brother's site is www.pappengine.com.
All other sites belong mostly to Dr. Dr. John who has surrounded our company and personal names with sites and applied flags to prevent searches from reaching us. My brother Tom died of pancreatic cancer last year leaving me on my own. Dr. Dr. John's commented that it was good for his business since Tom could fight his video. All new data shows up on the rohnermachine site. If it operates - it is ours. We do not use the name Plasmic as it is really a medical term I believe.

I will say again that I seriously doubt you can create power with what he has to sell. It is highly suspect that he can show nothing in this regard and refuses to even provide any serious directions.

You ask about thorium. We use it. It enhances ionization. You can get by with Thorium oxide but it too is expensive. If you use the anode and cathode buckets  you will also need rubidium and red phosphorus as well as a glove box to handle them since all are reactive to a certain extent in air. If nothing is working try shredding a couple old lamp mantles up and tossing them in the cylinder. As thorium emanates it would give the best result if it is in intimate contact with aluminum.

I don't believe Dr. Dr. John provides any anodes or cathodes  so I guess you don't need to worry about this aspect anyway. You will need the five gasses in lab bottles and xenon is pretty damn expensive, You will need to buy regulators for the tanks, syringes, non-coring needles, and septums for injecting differing percentages of gas.  Digital pressure gages are a must.

My presentation at the tesla show was all about the so called "popper" The main purpose was to 1) prove that Dr. DR. John was lying about us being a fraud and using air power and 2) that it is a total adiabatic process and so far unexplainable.  I have to get back to work. From how we work and what we do I still see no way for him to produce any power but I wish you luck.

Bob

cncjoe

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #20, on August 1st, 2012, 09:44 PM »
Boy I can't wait for you to start this Russ! Did you get the kit yet?

~Russ

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #21, on August 1st, 2012, 10:01 PM »
Quote from bjrohner on August 1st, 2012, 10:58 AM
Quote
Bob, first, welcome, and thank you for the help and direction.

Could you do us all a favor and clear up who is with who between websites and things?  I'm still not hundred percent sure who is with who and what motors or engines are with what people.

I guess for some reason I'm still confused and want to make clear of the situation.

Your presence here means a lot. We would definitely like to experience this technology basically just better mankind. I understand that you're under an agreement and can't really give us much information. But your presence here and your guidance is beyond welcome. and we thank you for it.

It's good to clear up any confusion upon people because I am still very confused.

Anyway I'll await your reply and hopefully understand the situation a little bit better. This way we know where we're headed.

Thank you so much!!!!!!! Blessins! ~Russ

Also, do we or do we not need the radioactive electrodes/material to make this process work?

Lastly, I copied all of your videos from your website for off-line backup purposes only. Will you be okay if i collaborat the videos together and post exactly where they came from and then putting them on YouTube to be viewed easier? All contet will be linked to your web site with your permission?


We are looking forward to that video you will be posting! Please let us know when its up for viewing.
Gentlement

First to clear things up - All equipment you see operating on any videos or web- sites including all three hundred of Dr. Dr. John's as well as Sabori's or anywhere were built by my Brother Tom and I. Tom was a hardware computer designer and I'm a mechanical Engineer. Any note attachments and voice overs associated with these videos are fakes. The flashy plasma forming videos you see on Sabori's tape were in fact created by a Mr. Herby Gambol from Oklahoma who we financed and who like yourself, had a driving need to know how things worked.

My site is www.rohnermachine.com. My brother's site is www.pappengine.com.
All other sites belong mostly to Dr. Dr. John who has surrounded our company and personal names with sites and applied flags to prevent searches from reaching us. My brother Tom died of pancreatic cancer last year leaving me on my own. Dr. Dr. John's commented that it was good for his business since Tom could fight his video. All new data shows up on the rohnermachine site. If it operates - it is ours. We do not use the name Plasmic as it is really a medical term I believe.

I will say again that I seriously doubt you can create power with what he has to sell. It is highly suspect that he can show nothing in this regard and refuses to even provide any serious directions.

You ask about thorium. We use it. It enhances ionization. You can get by with Thorium oxide but it too is expensive. If you use the anode and cathode buckets  you will also need rubidium and red phosphorus as well as a glove box to handle them since all are reactive to a certain extent in air. If nothing is working try shredding a couple old lamp mantles up and tossing them in the cylinder. As thorium emanates it would give the best result if it is in intimate contact with aluminum.

I don't believe Dr. Dr. John provides any anodes or cathodes  so I guess you don't need to worry about this aspect anyway. You will need the five gasses in lab bottles and xenon is pretty ***** expensive, You will need to buy regulators for the tanks, syringes, non-coring needles, and septums for injecting differing percentages of gas.  Digital pressure gages are a must.

My presentation at the tesla show was all about the so called "popper" The main purpose was to 1) prove that Dr. DR. John was lying about us being a fraud and using air power and 2) that it is a total adiabatic process and so far unexplainable.  I have to get back to work. From how we work and what we do I still see no way for him to produce any power but I wish you luck.

Bob
thank you bob for taking the time to clear this up.

we here at Open Source Energy are confident and willing to work hard to make things work. so we thank you for taking the time.

much respect,

~Russ Gries
RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #22, on August 1st, 2012, 10:28 PM »
Quote from cncjoe on August 1st, 2012, 09:44 PM
Boy I can't wait for you to start this Russ! Did you get the kit yet?
Ha! No,

They should get the money order tomorrow, then they "estimated" shipping 10 days after tesla tech was over...

So no, should revive my quotes on the gasses soon. So that part should be done soon.

Then all the parts and pieces I will need to make. But I need the kit to see what they call for as far as size and types. So more waiting...but that's ok . All takes time. ~Russ  

element 119

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #23, on August 1st, 2012, 10:38 PM »
Hello Bob Rohner

I would like to start by saying sorry for the loss of your brother Tom. It is obvious you two were very close.

John states he currently has at least 7 manufactures ready to go into production and will go public around the end of September in about 2 months. True or not true we should know by October. Can you tell us about how close you are to providing a production engine?

Speaking for myself I do not want to get in the middle of any disputes between you and John. Please note that for us on the outside it is hard to know what is true or not true. I believe most of us just want a way out of the high prices for gasoline and fuel to heat our homes. It would be nice if you two could get together and advance the technology but that is up to you two, and none of my business.

I can see why the one cylinder popper build project might be considered a paint shaker but can you explain why Johns 2 cylinder opposed piston is not a boxer motor? The pistons are 180 degrees opposed.

Russ has some mad building skills just go and watch some of his videos. So when Russ builds the kit we will see if the noble gas engine requires more then just the noble gasses and the electronics.

Please don’t take anything I say the wrong way we are just looking for the answer to question.  

element 119

ethospete

RE: Let's build A "Popper" Noble Gas Engine AKA Ppap Engine.
« Reply #24, on August 2nd, 2012, 02:55 AM »
Quote from TinMan on August 1st, 2012, 05:33 AM
Hi Guy.
I will be giveing some input into this in the form of an engin setup i designed about a year ago.I have been waiting for the right fuel to run this engin,and this is it.
My design with put out 3 to 4 time's the torque of a standard I.C.E with the same size cylender but shorter stroke.
I will be giveing this design to Russ as soon as he has that thing popping .
The standard I.C.E configuration is about 38% efficient at best in converting pistion force into rotating force.
My design will bring that efficiency up to about 85% in mechanical rotation.
As soon as Russ starts his build-i will start on a small modle of my engin design.
As i dont have a noble gas popper ,i will be useing a magnetic pulsed pistion to simulate the noble gas pulse.This will allow you to see the design working,and how suitable it will be for this noble gas setup
Hi Tinman!

That is really awesome news and this sounds exactly like what is needed to combine with this new project.

How many cylinders is your standard design based upon..?

I look forward to learning more about it...

More power to you!

ethos Pete...

"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower (1887-1956)