#### brettly

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #225, on January 30th, 2016, 05:05 AM »
question regarding the injector quenching disc as per firepinto picture below which I've annotated.
does the water flow through the channels only, or does it flow across the whole structure ( blue arrow with red cross through it)?
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #226, on January 30th, 2016, 11:14 PM »Last edited on January 30th, 2016, 11:28 PM
something else i've noticed, there is a water jacket that extends inbetween the inner and outer stainless sections on the splitting zone end. This cylinder of water is 2.54mm in thickness,
what is the purpose of this cylinder of water? cooling? acoustic resonance? The injector could be build without this cylinder of water, so there must be some reason for it. The length of the water jacket of cylinderical shape is 2.285" ( 58mm). There is an 'o'ring at the end of the thread I assume to stop water escaping or am I miss reading the plans?
diagram below explains what I'm talking about:
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #227, on January 31st, 2016, 06:25 AM »Last edited on January 31st, 2016, 06:40 AM
just to answer my previous question ( shown in previous diagram name 'quench') : if the water has to cross the quenching disc through the radial slots of the disc, it appears from dimensions that the water can cross any part of the quenching disc as there is a 0.01" gap.
see diagram below: red circles indicate lengths of the relevant parts 2.685-2.675 gives 0.01" gap.
Gap shown as blue line indicating a space for water. ( the water distribution cavity is also another 0.01" lower, which would mean a 0.02gap for water across the water distribution cavity.
( unless there is an error in the diagram dimensions). The o-ring would need to be such that the metal surfaces near the o-ring will be touching each other when the parts are screwed together.
I'm thinking there is an error on the dimensions and that the 0.01" gap shown as blue line is not meant to be there.
If the dimensions are correct it would mean there is a water jacket inbetween these parts as shown in my previous post.
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #228, on January 31st, 2016, 06:28 AM »Last edited on January 31st, 2016, 06:42 AM
i did show on a post some time ago, there was an error on stans diagram for the dimensions of another part,
so my guess is this is another error. Stan was not perfect, but it does make it difficult to know exactly how the injector is supposed to work. It will be difficult to know the purpose of making the outer jacket so long, whether its to keep the o-ring cool being further away from the engine,or to heat up the water using the injector heat ( it should get pretty hot), or whether the water jacket I've identified plays a role in the injector resonance or other function.
If the water jacket is supposed to be there, it might be for acoustic resonance?
It seems stan had matched the inner/outer tubes on the tube type wfc by using a slot to tune the outer pipe to the inner pipe, could it be this water jacket is playing a similar role?
There is an o-ring there for a reason, to stop water leaking out, so maybe the water jacket is supposed to be there.........I dont know!
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #229, on January 31st, 2016, 07:01 AM »Last edited on January 31st, 2016, 11:14 PM
another pic showing where water might be in the injector, voltage zone, and another zone of unknown purpose. I'm just assuming that the water/gas mix in droplet form that goes into the injector, goes back to liquid form once in the distribution cavity.
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #230, on February 1st, 2016, 09:49 PM »
voltage zone water gap = 0.254mm
cylinder jacket water gap = 2.54mm
a factor of exactly 10.
from some calcs ( in my research information sharing thread)
292khz gives concentric acoustic resonant maxima in voltage zone ( 1/2 wavelength maxima at electrode surfaces),
Since the water jacket width is 2.54mm, it would mean you would fit 10maxima in that zone at same frequency, Perhaps no coincidence water jacket zone is exactly 10times as wide as voltage zone water gap width. It would mean that jacket of water also has standing waves concentric in nature ( could they act a bit like a drum or other resonator) amplifying the voltage zone acoustic resonance.........who knows!!??
I'm guessing here, perhaps the longitudonal length of the voltage zone to the water jacket, is also some integer value, so that resonance is also occuring with longitudonal waves in voltage zone, but also in the water jacket zone.
The zone where the two water zones interact acoustically, would be where the quenching disc is located........just guessing..some interaction going on there also.
0.254mm gap above the quenching disc also suggests acoustic resonance for that thin sheet of water which goes over quenching disc.
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #231, on February 2nd, 2016, 03:49 AM »
just looking more closely at stans dimesions for the injector.
I've used his drawing and taken off irrelevant dimensions.
Below shows the length of the water jacket, using stans dimensions.
It is 2.125" length  diagram below.
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #232, on February 2nd, 2016, 04:19 AM »Last edited on February 2nd, 2016, 04:39 AM
compare with dimensions stan gives for the inner ss tube ( water inlet housing):
there appears to be a discrepency in dimensions. I previously showed a 0.01" gap at the end of the quenching disc, even not taking that into account he has given two different dimensions for the
placement of the thread on the inner ss tube ( which would give the longitudonal wavelength of the water jacket bewteen the inner/outer ss tubes).
he gives 2.285" for that length in the inner ss tube ( water inlet housing): see pic below
but he gives 2.125" for the outer ss tube ( plug housing)( picture above in previous post).
Thats a difference of 0.16" for what should represent the same dimension.
If you take into account the 0.01" gap I mentioned earlier, the dimensions are still not same on both diagrams.......so there is some error there......how to decipher the plug then becomes quite an issue. I realise some people have already had injector plugs made at great expense, how did they overcome these errors in stans drawings?
I'm not sure how you overcome these dimensional errors when trying to replicate the injector,
it might prove difficult to get it to work unless exact dimensions are known. Especially since the gaps involved can be as small as 0.01", and there appears an error on the scale of 0.16",
its going to be quite a task.
( hope some people will check my calculations also)
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #233, on February 2nd, 2016, 04:44 AM »Last edited on February 2nd, 2016, 04:53 AM
I haven't been looking for dimensional errors, just trying to work out some numbers for acoustic resonance, and trying to nut out how the injector works. But it seems there are alot of errors in the dimensions from stans estate injector drawings......damn.
I think I would assume that the quenching disc sits hard against the outer ss housing ( plug housing), so that water is forced through the small 0.01" slots ( perhaps the method to force droplets to coalesce for the voltage zone), that the water jacket space plays no role in the device,
and the long length of the outer ss housing, is to keep the rubber o-ring somewhat cooler, rather than having it very close to the engine ( near the voltage zone end). Where heat might damage it over time.
Very frustrating though to find dimensions are not 100% spot on.

#### firepinto

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #234, on February 2nd, 2016, 05:16 AM »
I think the people that built injectors found problems with dimensions too, and just built it by what they thought made sense.  We have to take into consideration that these are just patent drawings and not drawings that a machinist should use for production.  From a drafting standpoint, there are a lot more problems with the drawing than just wrong dimensions.  There are a lot of superfluous dimensions, which means things have double dimensions that will conflict each other tolerance wise.  There is also no datum points to measure the dimensions from.  All this has to do with tolerance stacking.  Dimension numbers on paper don't mean anything if it isn't physically possible to machine the part with in tolerances.  The way it is dimensioned now(not counting bad dimensions), if you took it to a machinist he could machine it with wrong dimensions and get away with it.  Checking the part with a caliper would be done just like the dimensions are shown.  That leaves a lot of room for error (tolerance stack).

Drawing models in 3D is one thing, but producing a drawing that puts it into production is another.  A drawing is a legal document, it has to be dimensioned so that it can only be interpreted one way.  Or someone is going to lose money.

#### brettly

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #235, on February 2nd, 2016, 05:35 PM »
thanks for feedback, I assume no one has an original to measure up?
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #236, on February 2nd, 2016, 05:47 PM »
from stans dimensions ( and pythagoras theorem) length of the inner injector is 0.9959" along the slope. So close enough to one inch, using 2.125 ( 2 1/8") as the length of water jacket between ss tubes ( 2.54mm gap). Gives ratio of 1:2.125.....if acoustic resonance along the length is playing any role in voltage zone and water jacket combined, thats the ratio ( using one set of dimensions).
Lets say voltage zone is open at one end ( quenching disc at other end), and water jacket is open one end ( quenching disc) then not sure if I can make sense of those dimensions when looking at acoustic resonance, perhaps water jacket is considered closed at one end, and the voltage zone considered open both ends, might be able to make some sense of that ration in that case.

#### securesupplies

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #237, on April 28th, 2016, 01:03 PM »
Ok  , I have been trying to study back up on my pc skills

I create this from the files it is a shared cad forum , I believe it can help speed up the gas processor, 11 cell and injectors advancement ,
By having parts more faster done

Check it out  would like member feed back on get this happening  young guys with time and skills that means you

It is a Open Source Version to advance as per Stan Meyers Wishes
SHARE

Dan

#### brettly

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #238, on May 7th, 2016, 02:32 AM »Last edited on May 7th, 2016, 02:35 AM
Just a note to the stanmeyersparkplug guys who have produced a replica. I think I might have mentioned it before, but on the gofundme website, the picture below appears.
It shows the replica with water being pumped through it, and the word " PROVEN" stamped on the picture. I dont think that is a good idea to have that picture and 'proven' written across it.
For a couple of reasons:
1. stan was referring to the injector acting as a voltage waveguide (  not a water jet guide). Stans injector acting as a voltage waveguide is a very different concept to a nozzle that acts water jet that converges. Any backyard garden hose acts as a water jet which can be made to converge, which is all that is proven by pushing water through stans injector!
2. the injector acting as a voltage waveguide is not proven by anyone as far as I can tell. It may or maynot be correct, I have some difficulties with the idea of voltage waves being compressed as stan indicates in his patent but I'm not sure.The jury is still very much 'out' on that one.

I think those guys have done an amazing job creating the replica, in fact a fantastic piece of work.
At the risk of offending those guys, which I dont want to do, it shows a lack of understanding of the injector to think that pumping water through it and getting a converging stream of water out of it, proves that it acts as a voltage waveguide, it might detract from getting serious investors involved in the project by using that picture. ( there is also a video cant remember where its posted, probably on the stanmeyersparkplug site, which shows the same thing).

C'mon guys..........you've done such good work..........that is way below the high standard you've already set to post such information.

#### securesupplies

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
« Reply #240, on June 24th, 2016, 06:15 AM »Last edited on June 24th, 2016, 06:18 AM

Just Simple Clarification to provide vision

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!

Russ and or others

Do we have

Ref for # for these injector parts # and sizes

1  Ball Bearing  part # size
2 Spring  size part #
3 the 2 Rubber o rings sizes part #

Merry Christmas to All

Dan
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
It is know that we must have a Cold Spark Plug for Hydrogen, I guess the design is rather advantageous to this self cooling
here is what ceramic insulator designs are like fore hot or cold plugs.

Too high temperature of the insulator tip is undesirable. High temperature results in pre-ignitions of the air-fuel mixture and further compression of the mixture already ignited leads to high temperature, which can cause serious damage to the engine.

In order to achieve the correct temperature of the insulator tip for a given engine, the spark plugs are produced in various thermal values. The range of thermal values for BRISK spark plugs extend from the warmest to the coldest, namely 19, 18, 17, 15, 14, 12, 10 and 08.
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
Some Step and IGS  being done will post as done

Dan

##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
Few More Replications Done
From Ryan Dan and Secure Supplies
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
Positive Probe Assembly

Design  Files

Files Attached from Autodesk

IPT File

Dan
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
Working through it
##### Re: Stanley Meyer Water Car Injector Drawings For The Water Powered Buggy!
Question Measuring the Frequency of the spark

Both for light color and other parameters

Open and invite ideas on it

Spark Gas  Spark plug Frequency color measuring

I would suggest using a silicon PIN photodiode with a clear window like BPX65

BPX65 is so good that it can even be used for individual photon counting, so have no fear over sensitivity. It is also very fast with risetimes down to 3.5 nanosecond in some configurations.

To use BPX65 - or similar, cheaper, PIN photodiodes with clear lenses - you will have to operate your spark gap in total darkness, perhaps by putting a hood over it, or by doing the experiments at night with the room light switched off!

You could mount your PIN photodiode in one end of a light-proof plastic tube (to keep the diode away from the spark field) and have the spark gap in a light proof enclosure at the other end.

BPX65 is one of those PIN photodiodes that almost went out of production, but sales have rebounded with a lot of new applications that didn't exist when it was first designed. Centronic now hold the rights in it, and its price has gone up. There are much cheaper silicon PIN photodiodes with clear windows on the market, that will work for you, though they may not have the full 1mm*1mm area of the BPX65 chip. Avoid PIN photodiodes with integral IR filtration, as these will absorb the violet and blue light of your spark spectrum.

Checking other ways to measure, blue yellow and violet sparks on out put plug