8XA Circuit

DanB

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #50, on January 4th, 2013, 09:03 AM »
Faradays heating estimate for 8Xa and Variable Plate Cell

Calculate Water volume (4 in inside diameter)
4”dia, plate height plus 4” water over plates
V=PI()* radius^2*height = 201 cu in

Calculate plate volume (1/4 in plate backer)
V=height*width*thickness*2
V=3*12*(1/4)*2 = 18 cu in

Water volume = total volume – plate volume
Water volume = 201 – 18 = 183 cu in

Calculate lbs of water
1 gal water = 231 cu in, and 1 gal water = 8.35 lbs
Water volume = 183 / 231 = .79 gals
Water weight = .79 * 8.35 = 6.6 lbs of water in container

Calculate how much power goes toward heating the water in the container
Total input power 80V@ 4A = 320W
48700cc/hr  =  48.7L/hr = 0.8117L/min
Watts to make gas  = .8117(L/min) * 140 (W/L/min) = 113.6W
Calculate watts to heat water = Total input power – power to make gas
Watts to heat water = 320 – 113.6 = 206.4W

Calculate water temperature rise in 20 minute run
206.4W = 11.748BTU/min
BTUs in 20min = 11.748 * 20 = 235BTUs
1BTU = raise 1lb water 1degF
Water temperature rise in 20 minutes  =  235 / 6.6 = 35.6degF

If the temperature of the water started at 70degF and ran for 20 minutes then the ending cell temperature should have been at 105.6degF. Reports indicate the cell was cool to the touch, I calculate it should have been warm to the touch.

I know there is a first hand report that documents a demonstration which says how long the cell ran and didn’t get hot, but I couldn’t find it, so I used 20 minutes.

What do you guys think? Did I make a mistake in my calculations or logic?



Amsy

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #51, on January 6th, 2013, 03:22 AM »Last edited on January 6th, 2013, 04:55 AM by Amsy
Quote from adys15 on January 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM
If it is AC voltage ,yes the water will heat up
Hi adys15,

in my test I used DC voltage. It seems to be equal, what kind of water is used. In destilled water I could cut down the current to 0.2A, but the water took the same time to get hot as tap water. In destilled water, also less HHO is coming out of the cell.
Quote from DanB on January 4th, 2013, 09:03 AM
Faradays heating estimate for 8Xa and Variable Plate Cell

Calculate Water volume (4 in inside diameter)
4”dia, plate height plus 4” water over plates
V=PI()* radius^2*height = 201 cu in

Calculate plate volume (1/4 in plate backer)
V=height*width*thickness*2
V=3*12*(1/4)*2 = 18 cu in

Water volume = total volume – plate volume
Water volume = 201 – 18 = 183 cu in

Calculate lbs of water
1 gal water = 231 cu in, and 1 gal water = 8.35 lbs
Water volume = 183 / 231 = .79 gals
Water weight = .79 * 8.35 = 6.6 lbs of water in container

Calculate how much power goes toward heating the water in the container
Total input power 80V@ 4A = 320W
48700cc/hr  =  48.7L/hr = 0.8117L/min
Watts to make gas  = .8117(L/min) * 140 (W/L/min) = 113.6W
Calculate watts to heat water = Total input power – power to make gas
Watts to heat water = 320 – 113.6 = 206.4W

Calculate water temperature rise in 20 minute run
206.4W = 11.748BTU/min
BTUs in 20min = 11.748 * 20 = 235BTUs
1BTU = raise 1lb water 1degF
Water temperature rise in 20 minutes  =  235 / 6.6 = 35.6degF

If the temperature of the water started at 70degF and ran for 20 minutes then the ending cell temperature should have been at 105.6degF. Reports indicate the cell was cool to the touch, I calculate it should have been warm to the touch.

I know there is a first hand report that documents a demonstration which says how long the cell ran and didn’t get hot, but I couldn’t find it, so I used 20 minutes.

What do you guys think? Did I make a mistake in my calculations or logic?
Your calculation seems to be ok. Depending on how much water he finally put into the basin.

We also should remember, that he found out during testing, that he could also quick heat up water (steam resonator) and even built a prototype for home heating.

waseem

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #52, on May 9th, 2013, 10:50 PM »
Hi everyone.

This is Waseem here. I am a regular visitor of this forum but never participated in any thread because I was not having enough information on the subject. Now because of this platform provided by Russ I have learnt a lot. My sincere thanks and best wishes to all members who are participating here and trying to help each other especially to Russ, Tony woodside, Dynodon, Waqas, Donald and Outlaw who are doing to their best for helping out others in replicating Stan's work.

Basically I am telecommunication engineer and very keen to replicate Meyers work in order to run my car on water to get rid of fuel expenses.

I am trying to replicate 8XA from the following circuit diagram but I am facing following problems. Currently I am using almost specs for cell as defined by Ravi in his document i.e. 9" long tube outside and 10" long tube inside with 1" outer diameter. Gap is 0.63mm.

Schematic is attached about circuit.

1. At 1x and 2x light blinks but at 3x and 4x they almost stays on.
2. After constructing a complete circuit exactly as defined, wires start getting very hot including diode and scr.
3. Even if I take wires out from optocoupler, unit still makes gas but as I said earlier system is getting hot.
4. My variac is also getting hot a lot and even it was about to burn.



Would appreciate if you help me out in replicating this system.

Thanks & Regards,
Waseem


geenee

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #53, on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM »Last edited on May 11th, 2013, 12:35 AM by geenee
what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?

my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

thanks
geenee

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #54, on May 11th, 2013, 09:32 AM »
Quote from waseem on May 9th, 2013, 10:50 PM
Hi everyone.

This is Waseem here. I am a regular visitor of this forum but never participated in any thread because I was not having enough information on the subject. Now because of this platform provided by Russ I have learnt a lot. My sincere thanks and best wishes to all members who are participating here and trying to help each other especially to Russ, Tony woodside, Dynodon, Waqas, Donald and Outlaw who are doing to their best for helping out others in replicating Stan's work.

Basically I am telecommunication engineer and very keen to replicate Meyers work in order to run my car on water to get rid of fuel expenses.

I am trying to replicate 8XA from the following circuit diagram but I am facing following problems. Currently I am using almost specs for cell as defined by Ravi in his document i.e. 9" long tube outside and 10" long tube inside with 1" outer diameter. Gap is 0.63mm.

Schematic is attached about circuit.

1. At 1x and 2x light blinks but at 3x and 4x they almost stays on.
2. After constructing a complete circuit exactly as defined, wires start getting very hot including diode and scr.
3. Even if I take wires out from optocoupler, unit still makes gas but as I said earlier system is getting hot.
4. My variac is also getting hot a lot and even it was about to burn.

If you have your cell too small or with very small gap,the water will have little resistance and will draw more curent from all the setup past their ratings.Cheers!

Would appreciate if you help me out in replicating this system.

Thanks & Regards,
Waseem

waseem

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #55, on May 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM »
Quote from geenee on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM
Thanks Geenee for your reply :)

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?
I am using variac and I can go to as much voltages as I want e.g. I have gone to 100v but water start getting hot along with SCR and blocking diode.

My wfc specs are

Outer Pipe OD : 25.317 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Outer Pipe ID : 25.317 - (2.032 x2) = 21.253mm
Inner Pipe OD : 19.930 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Gap is 1.323mm ( 21.253 - 19.930 )
Inside pipe is centered is 1.323/2 = 0.6615 mm on either sides of the inner tube.


my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.

Did you replicate this schematic? I have replicated it exactly by using pcb design given by H2Opower in one thread. Does your led gives 50% duty cycle at 3x?

do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

Yes I do have 3 7490 chips on my board, as defined in schematic and I am using h11A1 instead of h11D1 as I could not find it in market. Regarding SCR and blocking diode, I could not find C38M and 1188 but I am using both with almost same specs.


Thanks,
Waseem

Gunther Rattay

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #56, on May 13th, 2013, 02:59 AM »
Quote from waseem on May 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM
Quote from geenee on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM
Thanks Geenee for your reply :)

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?
I am using variac and I can go to as much voltages as I want e.g. I have gone to 100v but water start getting hot along with SCR and blocking diode.

My wfc specs are

Outer Pipe OD : 25.317 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Outer Pipe ID : 25.317 - (2.032 x2) = 21.253mm
Inner Pipe OD : 19.930 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Gap is 1.323mm ( 21.253 - 19.930 )
Inside pipe is centered is 1.323/2 = 0.6615 mm on either sides of the inner tube.


my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.

Did you replicate this schematic? I have replicated it exactly by using pcb design given by H2Opower in one thread. Does your led gives 50% duty cycle at 3x?

do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

Yes I do have 3 7490 chips on my board, as defined in schematic and I am using h11A1 instead of h11D1 as I could not find it in market. Regarding SCR and blocking diode, I could not find C38M and 1188 but I am using both with almost same specs.


Thanks,
Waseem
check the voltage over the wfc if there is a real pulsing of some kHz or if it´s simple 50/60 hz frequency pulses.

often the SCR does not switch due to improper LC calibration.
then of course amps are high and components get hot because there is no real pulse regulation but simple grid frequency behaviour.

better start with a Mosfet.


waseem

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #57, on May 13th, 2013, 03:50 AM »
Quote from bussi04 on May 13th, 2013, 02:59 AM
Quote from waseem on May 13th, 2013, 01:09 AM
Quote from geenee on May 11th, 2013, 12:29 AM
Thanks Geenee for your reply :)

what spec of your wfc is?how many voltage do you use?
I am using variac and I can go to as much voltages as I want e.g. I have gone to 100v but water start getting hot along with SCR and blocking diode.

My wfc specs are

Outer Pipe OD : 25.317 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Outer Pipe ID : 25.317 - (2.032 x2) = 21.253mm
Inner Pipe OD : 19.930 mm
Thickness : 14 SWG or 2.032 mm
Gap is 1.323mm ( 21.253 - 19.930 )
Inside pipe is centered is 1.323/2 = 0.6615 mm on either sides of the inner tube.


my thought is "very hot scr or diode from inrush current at start switch on time or problem about pll circuit ,you said 3x high on time ,8xa must create 50%duty cycle.

Did you replicate this schematic? I have replicated it exactly by using pcb design given by H2Opower in one thread. Does your led gives 50% duty cycle at 3x?

do you have 7490 on you board? then let check it.about 4x mode is not 50 %duty cycle. "

Yes I do have 3 7490 chips on my board, as defined in schematic and I am using h11A1 instead of h11D1 as I could not find it in market. Regarding SCR and blocking diode, I could not find C38M and 1188 but I am using both with almost same specs.


Thanks,
Waseem
check the voltage over the wfc if there is a real pulsing of some kHz or if it´s simple 50/60 hz frequency pulses.

often the SCR does not switch due to improper LC calibration.
then of course amps are high and components get hot because there is no real pulse regulation but simple grid frequency behaviour.

better start with a Mosfet.
Thanks Germany for your quick response.

Voltage across WFC tube is same to input voltage from variac. If I input 20V, the voltage across tubes are also 20v. I am currently using one tube for experimenting purpose. I am using bifilar coil as described by irondmax on youtube, four layers of wire with 13 turns per layer of 18 gauge wire.

Which mosfet do you recommend please?

Thanks,
Waseem

securesupplies

Describe the 8XA Circuit
« Reply #58, on December 16th, 2013, 06:12 AM »Last edited on December 16th, 2013, 06:14 AM by securesupplies
Kiss
it is very hard work to keep things simple.

I want to write a 1 line or short paragraph on each of these so we have crystal clear descriptions of what each does and purpose of each
for start of each thread in an group effort to focus and simplify.  To speed uptake of new comers

So New Comers know what is going on for each item,
So we can than put each description at top  of each item thread to explain each items goal.

8XA Circuit

9XD Circuit

9XB Circuit                                                    

9XA Circuit Card Fully Assembled

SCR Board and Part Not Assembled

VIC Circuit Voltage Intensifier Circuit  
"Gated Pulse Frequency Generator", "Phase Lock Circuit", "Resonant Scanning Circuit", Resonant Feedback", and "Cell Driver Circuit".

Vic Bobbin Style One
Raise Vlotage and restrict amps

Vic Style 2 Injector


Dan
Re: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #62,  »
eagle file trace ?
Re: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #63,  »Last edited
ADVANCING RESEARCH TO MODERN PARTS  EQUIVALENT

Stanley Meyer 9xb chokes inductance measurements
Below is just data not correct it is what we need measured and posted

Re the 2000 Perm E Cores
Used as the Bifilar Wound choke etc 
Need to firm up some measurements of wound cores
Reason is we have now got access to PLanar INductors a more efficient technology
Inductance L1, L2            330µH +- 30%    ?
Rated DC Current           20A?
Operating Frequency      300 kHz.
Peak Current for 1 sec.    60Adc
Dielectric strength (between L1+L2 to core)    500 Vrms
Power losses (With 90°C heat sink)                  2.7W
Ambient temperature      -55°C to +90°C       
Hot spot temperature (With 90°C heat sink)   115°C
Weight 20 gr.
 

===================================================
Last Data I have Found is
Stanley Meyer
760uH chokes with a 2000 perm ferrite core  Bifilar wound
rated 600 v
=================================================
Tony Wood Side using 1.7mH chokes with a steel core.
max current is 500mA-550mA @ 100VDC.
he current down to around 200mA when pulsing at frequencies below 60Hz.

=========================================
 I would like input on this so we can get standard ready to use parts moving from shelf once we match

Dan 
Re: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #64,  »
OK we have a 9xb board just posted
gerber here

Enjoy
Re: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #65,  »
BOM LIst
9xb parts list
bridged rectifier, not sure of the number.......only needed if you will use a transformer of 7 to 36 volts. use a 12 volt or 9 volt battery other wise
KBU808G bridged rectifier
3 x 1000uf caps
7805 regulator
.1 uf cap
330 uf cap
.01 uf cap
10nf
1k , 10m. 4.7k X2 parts, 220R x 3 parts.(resistors 1/4 w )
4 position dip switch
H11D1 opto
555 timer chip
3 x 74LS90N decade counter
7404 invert chip
red Led
1 100k pot