8XA Circuit

Gunther Rattay

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #25, on May 6th, 2012, 01:54 AM »
Quote from adys15 on May 5th, 2012, 06:19 AM
Hy guys do you know how to hookup the scope on the 8xa board?
i connected the pozitive on 4x,3x,2x...and groud to board ground and i god something weird like this
take away the first left 7490 and redo the measurement. now you can see if the 555 produces a correct output (pin 3) or not.
if 555 doesn´t work correctly check all connections, measure pin 2, pin 7 and check with a scope if there are correct ramp and threshold values. 555 is quite well documented in the internet.

if you use a pc scope I assume it´s AC coupled. then use a frequency for pulsing not less than 200 hz so that pulses can be displayed correctly thru AC coupling.


adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #26, on May 6th, 2012, 02:05 PM »
Quote from bussi04 on May 6th, 2012, 01:54 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 5th, 2012, 06:19 AM
Hy guys do you know how to hookup the scope on the 8xa board?
i connected the pozitive on 4x,3x,2x...and groud to board ground and i god something weird like this
take away the first left 7490 and redo the measurement. now you can see if the 555 produces a correct output (pin 3) or not.
if 555 doesn´t work correctly check all connections, measure pin 2, pin 7 and check with a scope if there are correct ramp and threshold values. 555 is quite well documented in the internet.

if you use a pc scope I assume it´s AC coupled. then use a frequency for pulsing not less than 200 hz so that pulses can be displayed correctly thru AC coupling.
thanks verry much guys for the info,i'v done the circuit on a breadboard so must be mistaking somewere,   bussi04 i have a buffer made for soundcard,and i also con directely on sound card same result,thanks,ady

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #27, on May 10th, 2012, 07:48 AM »
Quote from adys15 on May 5th, 2012, 10:38 AM
Quote from KevinW-dirtwill on May 5th, 2012, 09:44 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 5th, 2012, 06:19 AM
Hy guys do you know how to hookup the scope on the 8xa board?
i connected the pozitive on 4x,3x,2x...and groud to board ground and i god something weird like this
You are hooking up your scope correctly. But remember the scope lead is not a ground it is a Reference

Ya somthing is not right there, It may just be that your need some .1uf caps between your chips

http://open-source-energy.org/?tid=178
The rusttic circuit uses the same configuration.

http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/russtic_testfiles/SCH/Russtic%20WFC%20Freq%20Gen%20SCH%20V7.0.jpg

U1 is the 555 and U2, U3, U4 are the divider chips

C5,C6,C7 and C8 are the filter caps between chips. Ideally, you should have one on every ic chip. they should be as close to the ic chip as possible

You can see them all here
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/russtic_testfiles/Russtic_FG_V7.0_Build%206.jpg
Thanks verry much Kevin but the original 8xa did not have caps between IC's,I think the 7404 output is not conected corectly in my skematic,,,
The filter caps do not change the fuctionality of the circuit, they only clean up the signal and keep the chips from interfering with one another. Without them you can have a very scrambled looking signal.

This is a list of IC chips that have been tested and ones that are no good
http://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/russtic_testfiles/Tested%20IC%20chips.txt

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #28, on May 16th, 2012, 11:37 PM »
At last some positive results i think need's a little smoothing like Kevin says :D now i made it on a pcb,see att

~Russ

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #29, on May 17th, 2012, 01:35 AM »
Quote from adys15 on May 16th, 2012, 11:37 PM
At last some positive results i think need's a little smoothing like Kevin says :D now i made it on a pcb,see att
very cool! nice work! ~Russ

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #30, on May 17th, 2012, 02:19 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on May 17th, 2012, 01:35 AM
Quote from adys15 on May 16th, 2012, 11:37 PM
At last some positive results i think need's a little smoothing like Kevin says :D now i made it on a pcb,see att
very cool! nice work! ~Russ
Thanks Russ

andromedaxmc

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #31, on July 24th, 2012, 03:57 AM »
Hi guys
I have build a replica of 8XA and i have strange problem. I have tested two different circuits - one with MOSFET drive and another one 8XA circuit where i haven't used exactly H11d1 and SCR c38m. In both cases when i increase the voltage, the amps go up (12v-2 amps; 24v-4 amps). Also when i power OFF the PWM circuit but leave the power to the water cell, hho production is still going with the same power consumption (24v-4A).
Could this be caused by a problem in the blocking diode or in the PWM circuit?
I have tried different types of inductors and they don't  fix the problem.
Thanks for your assistance guys.

Ray Don

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #32, on July 27th, 2012, 08:06 AM »
Quote from andromedaxmc on July 24th, 2012, 03:57 AM
Hi guys
I have build a replica of 8XA and i have strange problem. I have tested two different circuits - one with MOSFET drive and another one 8XA circuit where i haven't used exactly H11d1 and SCR c38m. In both cases when i increase the voltage, the amps go up (12v-2 amps; 24v-4 amps). Also when i power OFF the PWM circuit but leave the power to the water cell, hho production is still going with the same power consumption (24v-4A).
Could this be caused by a problem in the blocking diode or in the PWM circuit?
I have tried different types of inductors and they don't  fix the problem.
Thanks for your assistance guys.
scr your resistor is wrong causing the opto to stay on.
mosfet...you have a drain problem ...put a switch on the mosfet ground, turn it off when you done

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #33, on November 25th, 2012, 07:58 AM »
Jeff can you show scope shots on the outputs of every freq. seting 1x,2x,3x,4x.so i can compare with my output because i redone the 9xb and the output is not perfect squares..

Jeff Nading

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #34, on November 25th, 2012, 10:16 AM »
Quote from adys15 on November 25th, 2012, 07:58 AM
Jeff can you show scope shots on the outputs of every freq. seting 1x,2x,3x,4x.so i can compare with my output because i redone the 9xb and the output is not perfect squares..
Sorry adys15, I have not gotten mine working to that point yet, it causes hho production but no pulsing. I need to redo some of the circuitry and just haven't done it. To many irons in the fire so to speck, don't know when I will get around to it, Jeff.:blush:

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #35, on November 26th, 2012, 03:12 AM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 25th, 2012, 10:16 AM
Quote from adys15 on November 25th, 2012, 07:58 AM
Jeff can you show scope shots on the outputs of every freq. seting 1x,2x,3x,4x.so i can compare with my output because i redone the 9xb and the output is not perfect squares..
Sorry adys15, I have not gotten mine working to that point yet, it causes hho production but no pulsing. I need to redo some of the circuitry and just haven't done it. To many irons in the fire so to speck, don't know when I will get around to it, Jeff.:blush:
i was refering to the outputs from the hexinverter,not from across the cell
RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #36, on November 26th, 2012, 01:53 PM »
Guys did you get the same output?I tried filter caps between vcc and gnd on every chip but does not change a thing

Jeff Nading

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #37, on November 26th, 2012, 02:14 PM »
Quote from adys15 on November 26th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Guys did you get the same output?I tried filter caps between vcc and gnd on every chip but does not change a thing
Hi adys15, I wanted to let you know, Bussi had a modification on his circuit and might have better details for you with scope shots.:D

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #38, on November 26th, 2012, 04:15 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 26th, 2012, 02:14 PM
Quote from adys15 on November 26th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Guys did you get the same output?I tried filter caps between vcc and gnd on every chip but does not change a thing
Hi adys15, I wanted to let you know, Bussi had a modification on his circuit and might have better details for you with scope shots.:D
that optocoupler modif...i know...or something else?

Jeff Nading

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #39, on November 26th, 2012, 04:38 PM »
Quote from adys15 on November 26th, 2012, 04:15 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on November 26th, 2012, 02:14 PM
Quote from adys15 on November 26th, 2012, 01:53 PM
Guys did you get the same output?I tried filter caps between vcc and gnd on every chip but does not change a thing
Hi adys15, I wanted to let you know, Bussi had a modification on his circuit and might have better details for you with scope shots.:D
that optocoupler modif...i know...or something else?
He did some other mods to it as well.:D

DanB

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #40, on December 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM »
It would be nice to know who has an 8XA and it's configuration. Variac / no-variac, SCR / Transistor / FET, What type of choke and what type of cell it's matched up to.

I'm gathering parts to build one.

Is there a high side FET circuit, I couldn't find one.

Has anyone used an ir2110 driver chip?

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #41, on December 30th, 2012, 04:00 AM »
Quote from DanB on December 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM
It would be nice to know who has an 8XA and it's configuration. Variac / no-variac, SCR / Transistor / FET, What type of choke and what type of cell it's matched up to.

I'm gathering parts to build one.

Is there a high side FET circuit, I couldn't find one.

Has anyone used an ir2110 driver chip?
A while ago i tried to pulse some thyristors rated 600v\800v\18a, and using mains voltage 220v,they poped up like popcorn.I believe Don when he says that the 8xa is not a resonant sistem,because the chokes are to small and the tubes are to large,so they dont mach.The only thing is that you dont have a voltage drop like the resonant sistem,which is a dead short at any freq.Happy new year to all!

DanB

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #42, on December 30th, 2012, 04:46 PM »
Quote from adys15 on December 30th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Quote from DanB on December 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM
It would be nice to know who has an 8XA and it's configuration. Variac / no-variac, SCR / Transistor / FET, What type of choke and what type of cell it's matched up to.

I'm gathering parts to build one.

Is there a high side FET circuit, I couldn't find one.

Has anyone used an ir2110 driver chip?
A while ago i tried to pulse some thyristors rated 600v\800v\18a, and using mains voltage 220v,they poped up like popcorn.I believe Don when he says that the 8xa is not a resonant sistem,because the chokes are to small and the tubes are to large,so they dont mach.The only thing is that you dont have a voltage drop like the resonant sistem,which is a dead short at any freq.Happy new year to all!
I agree that the 8XA system was not low current. I have attached one of Stan's documents that shows the plate cell drawing 4-5 amps. Now this being said, If the reports are true and the cell was not getting hot, shows the water cell was acting as a true capacitor. With tap water, I still wonder how the process starts.

If you look at the attached document, you will see that Stan was on the X1 range and calls out 10hz. Base frequency would be 120hz so this configuration should work with the SCR (even if it doesn't work at the upper frequencys). The only problem is Stan was using plates that he could adjust (tune) the spaceing. I haven't figured out an easy way to build a flat plate 36sq in cell that is adjustable.

Amsy

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #43, on January 2nd, 2013, 12:08 AM »Last edited on January 2nd, 2013, 12:14 AM by Amsy
Quote from DanB on December 30th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Quote from adys15 on December 30th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Quote from DanB on December 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM
It would be nice to know who has an 8XA and it's configuration. Variac / no-variac, SCR / Transistor / FET, What type of choke and what type of cell it's matched up to.

I'm gathering parts to build one.

Is there a high side FET circuit, I couldn't find one.

Has anyone used an ir2110 driver chip?
A while ago i tried to pulse some thyristors rated 600v\800v\18a, and using mains voltage 220v,they poped up like popcorn.I believe Don when he says that the 8xa is not a resonant sistem,because the chokes are to small and the tubes are to large,so they dont mach.The only thing is that you dont have a voltage drop like the resonant sistem,which is a dead short at any freq.Happy new year to all!
I agree that the 8XA system was not low current. I have attached one of Stan's documents that shows the plate cell drawing 4-5 amps. Now this being said, If the reports are true and the cell was not getting hot, shows the water cell was acting as a true capacitor. With tap water, I still wonder how the process starts.

If you look at the attached document, you will see that Stan was on the X1 range and calls out 10hz. Base frequency would be 120hz so this configuration should work with the SCR (even if it doesn't work at the upper frequencys). The only problem is Stan was using plates that he could adjust (tune) the spaceing. I haven't figured out an easy way to build a flat plate 36sq in cell that is adjustable.
This diagramm was found at stan meyers house.
It accords to the tube cell.
Look and calculate:

Electrolyses: 15,83 cc/hr @ 8,8W = 0,55W/cc
Voltage Potential Work: 46,6cc/hr @ 55W = 1,18W/cc

IMHO the diagramm shows a process which is worse than electrolyses. This would correspond to the fact, that tap water is a bad electrolyte.

At 12,5V the water keeps cool to the touch....


Also in your posted diagramm the COP is even worse.
for nearly the same amount he needs 80V. 48,7cc/hr @ 360W = 7,39W/cc


DanB

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #44, on January 2nd, 2013, 01:53 PM »
Quote from Amsy on January 2nd, 2013, 12:08 AM
Quote from DanB on December 30th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Quote from adys15 on December 30th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Quote from DanB on December 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM
It would be nice to know who has an 8XA and it's configuration. Variac / no-variac, SCR / Transistor / FET, What type of choke and what type of cell it's matched up to.

I'm gathering parts to build one.

Is there a high side FET circuit, I couldn't find one.

Has anyone used an ir2110 driver chip?
A while ago i tried to pulse some thyristors rated 600v\800v\18a, and using mains voltage 220v,they poped up like popcorn.I believe Don when he says that the 8xa is not a resonant sistem,because the chokes are to small and the tubes are to large,so they dont mach.The only thing is that you dont have a voltage drop like the resonant sistem,which is a dead short at any freq.Happy new year to all!
I agree that the 8XA system was not low current. I have attached one of Stan's documents that shows the plate cell drawing 4-5 amps. Now this being said, If the reports are true and the cell was not getting hot, shows the water cell was acting as a true capacitor. With tap water, I still wonder how the process starts.

If you look at the attached document, you will see that Stan was on the X1 range and calls out 10hz. Base frequency would be 120hz so this configuration should work with the SCR (even if it doesn't work at the upper frequencys). The only problem is Stan was using plates that he could adjust (tune) the spaceing. I haven't figured out an easy way to build a flat plate 36sq in cell that is adjustable.
This diagramm was found at stan meyers house.
It accords to the tube cell.
Look and calculate:

Electrolyses: 15,83 cc/hr @ 8,8W = 0,55W/cc
Voltage Potential Work: 46,6cc/hr @ 55W = 1,18W/cc

IMHO the diagramm shows a process which is worse than electrolyses. This would correspond to the fact, that tap water is a bad electrolyte.

At 12,5V the water keeps cool to the touch....


Also in your posted diagramm the COP is even worse.
for nearly the same amount he needs 80V. 48,7cc/hr @ 360W = 7,39W/cc
The diagram shows 48700cc/hr@80v still not good but, I was looking for something that proves the process. This configuration (8XA and variable plate exciter) was (I beleive) the cell demonstrated to the US patent office. I agree this will not be resonance, so power will be high, but still should prove the process. If this cell didn't get hot (as claimed) this would be a great starting point.

Matt Watts

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #45, on January 2nd, 2013, 04:56 PM »
Quote from DanB on January 2nd, 2013, 01:53 PM
The diagram shows 48700cc/hr@80v still not good but, I was looking for something that proves the process. This configuration (8XA and variable plate exciter) was (I beleive) the cell demonstrated to the US patent office. I agree this will not be resonance, so power will be high, but still should prove the process. If this cell didn't get hot (as claimed) this would be a great starting point.
Do keep in mind if you are exciting the cell with less than 0.5 Amps per square inch of plate area, the cell won't get hot even with brute force and electrolyte.  It might be good to run a quick analysis on the cell of interest and find out what that computes out to be--a threshold if you will.

Then the next step obviously is to see if you are running in the vicinity of the Faraday constant of 140 watts per liter per minute.  If you are under that threshold, then you are definitely proving the process.

Unfortunately, anything that runs in the brute force realm, may actually just be brute force.

Amsy

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #46, on January 3rd, 2013, 04:35 AM »Last edited on January 3rd, 2013, 04:37 AM by Amsy
Quote from DanB on January 2nd, 2013, 01:53 PM
Quote from Amsy on January 2nd, 2013, 12:08 AM
Quote from DanB on December 30th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Quote from adys15 on December 30th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Quote from DanB on December 29th, 2012, 04:43 PM
It would be nice to know who has an 8XA and it's configuration. Variac / no-variac, SCR / Transistor / FET, What type of choke and what type of cell it's matched up to.

I'm gathering parts to build one.

Is there a high side FET circuit, I couldn't find one.

Has anyone used an ir2110 driver chip?
A while ago i tried to pulse some thyristors rated 600v\800v\18a, and using mains voltage 220v,they poped up like popcorn.I believe Don when he says that the 8xa is not a resonant sistem,because the chokes are to small and the tubes are to large,so they dont mach.The only thing is that you dont have a voltage drop like the resonant sistem,which is a dead short at any freq.Happy new year to all!
I agree that the 8XA system was not low current. I have attached one of Stan's documents that shows the plate cell drawing 4-5 amps. Now this being said, If the reports are true and the cell was not getting hot, shows the water cell was acting as a true capacitor. With tap water, I still wonder how the process starts.

If you look at the attached document, you will see that Stan was on the X1 range and calls out 10hz. Base frequency would be 120hz so this configuration should work with the SCR (even if it doesn't work at the upper frequencys). The only problem is Stan was using plates that he could adjust (tune) the spaceing. I haven't figured out an easy way to build a flat plate 36sq in cell that is adjustable.
This diagramm was found at stan meyers house.
It accords to the tube cell.
Look and calculate:

Electrolyses: 15,83 cc/hr @ 8,8W = 0,55W/cc
Voltage Potential Work: 46,6cc/hr @ 55W = 1,18W/cc

IMHO the diagramm shows a process which is worse than electrolyses. This would correspond to the fact, that tap water is a bad electrolyte.

At 12,5V the water keeps cool to the touch....


Also in your posted diagramm the COP is even worse.
for nearly the same amount he needs 80V. 48,7cc/hr @ 360W = 7,39W/cc
The diagram shows 48700cc/hr@80v still not good but, I was looking for something that proves the process. This configuration (8XA and variable plate exciter) was (I beleive) the cell demonstrated to the US patent office. I agree this will not be resonance, so power will be high, but still should prove the process. If this cell didn't get hot (as claimed) this would be a great starting point.
You are right, this should be 48700cc; 46600cc; 15830cc;......

But which process he wanted to prove? ....
That the process of the tube array and the plate exciter are not getting hot, although he put in a high voltage what normaly would heat up the water??

He could not claim, that his process is better than electrolyses....the diagramms are showing this.

So what was "new" on the process, that he can make a patent?

 

adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #47, on January 3rd, 2013, 06:34 AM »
Quote from Amsy on January 3rd, 2013, 04:35 AM
Quote from DanB on January 2nd, 2013, 01:53 PM
Quote from Amsy on January 2nd, 2013, 12:08 AM
Quote from DanB on December 30th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Quote from adys15 on December 30th, 2012, 04:00 AM
A while ago i tried to pulse some thyristors rated 600v\800v\18a, and using mains voltage 220v,they poped up like popcorn.I believe Don when he says that the 8xa is not a resonant sistem,because the chokes are to small and the tubes are to large,so they dont mach.The only thing is that you dont have a voltage drop like the resonant sistem,which is a dead short at any freq.Happy new year to all!
I agree that the 8XA system was not low current. I have attached one of Stan's documents that shows the plate cell drawing 4-5 amps. Now this being said, If the reports are true and the cell was not getting hot, shows the water cell was acting as a true capacitor. With tap water, I still wonder how the process starts.

If you look at the attached document, you will see that Stan was on the X1 range and calls out 10hz. Base frequency would be 120hz so this configuration should work with the SCR (even if it doesn't work at the upper frequencys). The only problem is Stan was using plates that he could adjust (tune) the spaceing. I haven't figured out an easy way to build a flat plate 36sq in cell that is adjustable.
This diagramm was found at stan meyers house.
It accords to the tube cell.
Look and calculate:

Electrolyses: 15,83 cc/hr @ 8,8W = 0,55W/cc
Voltage Potential Work: 46,6cc/hr @ 55W = 1,18W/cc

IMHO the diagramm shows a process which is worse than electrolyses. This would correspond to the fact, that tap water is a bad electrolyte.

At 12,5V the water keeps cool to the touch....


Also in your posted diagramm the COP is even worse.
for nearly the same amount he needs 80V. 48,7cc/hr @ 360W = 7,39W/cc
The diagram shows 48700cc/hr@80v still not good but, I was looking for something that proves the process. This configuration (8XA and variable plate exciter) was (I beleive) the cell demonstrated to the US patent office. I agree this will not be resonance, so power will be high, but still should prove the process. If this cell didn't get hot (as claimed) this would be a great starting point.
You are right, this should be 48700cc; 46600cc; 15830cc;......

But which process he wanted to prove? ....
That the process of the tube array and the plate exciter are not getting hot, although he put in a high voltage what normaly would heat up the water??

He could not claim, that his process is better than electrolyses....the diagramms are showing this.

So what was "new" on the process, that he can make a patent?
voltage does not heat water,only amps,voltage is potential energy and when amps interfere in water there is a colision between apms(elecrons) and the water molecule electrons =electron exchange

Amsy

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #48, on January 3rd, 2013, 07:11 AM »Last edited on January 3rd, 2013, 07:20 AM by Amsy
Quote from adys15 on January 3rd, 2013, 06:34 AM
voltage does not heat water,only amps,voltage is potential energy and when amps interfere in water there is a colision between apms(elecrons) and the water molecule electrons =electron exchange
I cann´t confirm this. My knowledge is that the moving ions are heating the water. Because of their mass.
Also in my test I made this experience, that also with very low amps (0,5-1A) the water can be heated up very quick only with voltage (~100V)


When we take closer look to the patents, did he ever make a patent of the process itself?
The only think I always see when reading the patents (also the old ones) that he make patents of electrical circuits for controlling gas rate etc. or even applications for the gas to use. (Maybe because he know that it was nothing "new")



adys15

RE: 8XA Circuit
« Reply #49, on January 3rd, 2013, 08:46 AM »
Quote from Amsy on January 3rd, 2013, 07:11 AM
Quote from adys15 on January 3rd, 2013, 06:34 AM
voltage does not heat water,only amps,voltage is potential energy and when amps interfere in water there is a colision between apms(elecrons) and the water molecule electrons =electron exchange
I cann´t confirm this. My knowledge is that the moving ions are heating the water. Because of their mass.
Also in my test I made this experience, that also with very low amps (0,5-1A) the water can be heated up very quick only with voltage (~100V)


When we take closer look to the patents, did he ever make a patent of the process itself?
The only think I always see when reading the patents (also the old ones) that he make patents of electrical circuits for controlling gas rate etc. or even applications for the gas to use. (Maybe because he know that it was nothing "new")
If it is AC voltage ,yes the water will heat up