magnet motor (I know. boooooring)

Belfior

magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
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"As we all know, permanent magnet cannot do work." This has always been a statement that does not make sense to me. If there is a field, you can manipulate fields to give movement.

So I started pondering about the problem. First you need to eliminate as much negative impacts as you can. The rotor has to accelerate the whole/most time. There is the least friction you can manage. Magnetic bearings and maybe even a vacuum!

So my idea is a rotor that has magnets starting from the edge of the rotor going around the rim of the rotor, but 1mm closer to the center point with every new magnet. Now in the attached picture I have the magnets in yin&Yang formation, because I thought a sacred for will help me in this. The current version has just one spiraling ring of magnets.

In the picture there is also and electromagnet that takes power from another rotor on the same shaft. You zap that electromagnet with the power you can in one revolution. Maybe using a cap and a reed switch.

So what we are fighting against is the cogging point after one revolution. How to get over that first magnet? I think because the rotor accelerates the whole revolution, the angular momentum is going to be greater than one cogging magnet has power. I mean the acceleration took 9 magnets to do, why could one magnet be able to cog that motion? Then we have the angular momentun of the rotor plus the electromagnet that helps with the cogging.

What if we have asymmetric caps on the rotor also? Or on another rotor if there is no space left? We keep feeding those caps through the shaft or by induction and the electricity comes from another magnet rotor on the same shaft. They beauty of this is that there is net force towards the smaller plate without spending anything from the cap. So no Lenz. With ideal caps you only fill the caps once and if the smaller plate is towards the rotors rotation, then you get free motion.

I thought about adding Lorentz force there also, but that wiring gets too tricky.

What I would like to know is that is there an equation to calculate this? What is the circumference and mass of my rotor, if it has 10 N52 magnets accelerating the whole revolution and it needs to pass the one cogging magnet at the end of the revolution? If the angular momentum is not enough, how much force do I need to able to add from an electromagnet or from the asymmetic caps, so the rotor will go over the cogging magnet?

I dare to suggest, that with the right combo of magnet strength and rotor weight you can pass the cogging point without exrta help. I mean it should be 9 magnets accelerating against 1 magnet cogging. Those 9 magnets transfered their force into that angular momentum and that is now fighting the cogging magnet that is just 1/10 of the accelerating magnets.



patrick1

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #1,  »
Cool ;-D...

i have actually tried this !

however i only made a single rotor, so you would do better with several, because the cogging was my problem,

I used 4 magnets per string, and 5 strings per rotor, - and the whole wheel was huge too improve the processs, - my wheel was 60cm diameter, MDF , bolted too rear wheel of my car, - i also used the cars engine, too machine the rotor ;-)...  magnets were 30mm x 3mm round neo's (stacked 3 high),   and the single electromagnet ( the best one)  was 30mm steel rod, with an attracfing magnet on the back of it, - ...

now the reason the machine didnt work, is because i needed too turn the powersupply up supprisingly high too overcome the magnetic cogging, - just had too keep turning it up ;-(.,  eventually it was obvious the input power was several times higher than the potential output

at this point i scrapped the idea, deciding it would really be very hard, too make it work, unless i was too employ additional principes whilch i was unaware of at that stage,  -  even today i rather build something else, -  even a mechanical version of the same thing ;-).  output power is really hard too get, -  ppl fail with free energy because they just too much on the input.   -   typically, 

i read about this exception, el  work last night - very high output OU,  with solid principes.  - its a pdf ive been trying too understand for a few years, - i read it occasionally hoping too pickup more,  - but if your game,  read on !  http://www.hyiq.org/Downloads/Guidelines%20to%20Bucking%20Coils.pdf

Lynx

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #2,  »
I have a question for you Patrick: Have you ever found anything useful and/or interesting regarding the Howard Johnson permanent magnet motor?
Suffice it to say that would make for quite the build off right here ;-)

Belfior

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #3,  »
Quote from patrick1 on February 2nd, 04:07 AM
Cool ;-D...

i have actually tried this !

however i only made a single rotor, so you would do better with several, because the cogging was my problem,

I used 4 magnets per string, and 5 strings per rotor, - and the whole wheel was huge too improve the processs, - my wheel was 60cm diameter, MDF , bolted too rear wheel of my car, - i also used the cars engine, too machine the rotor ;-)...  magnets were 30mm x 3mm round neo's (stacked 3 high),   and the single electromagnet ( the best one)  was 30mm steel rod, with an attracfing magnet on the back of it, - ...

now the reason the machine didnt work, is because i needed too turn the powersupply up supprisingly high too overcome the magnetic cogging, - just had too keep turning it up ;-(.,  eventually it was obvious the input power was several times higher than the potential output

at this point i scrapped the idea, deciding it would really be very hard, too make it work, unless i was too employ additional principes whilch i was unaware of at that stage,  -  even today i rather build something else, -  even a mechanical version of the same thing ;-).  output power is really hard too get, -  ppl fail with free energy because they just too much on the input.   -   typically, 

i read about this exception, el  work last night - very high output OU,  with solid principes.  - its a pdf ive been trying too understand for a few years, - i read it occasionally hoping too pickup more,  - but if your game,  read on !  http://www.hyiq.org/Downloads/Guidelines%20to%20Bucking%20Coils.pdf
Many rotors give interesting possibilities. Like you could have 7 rotors accelerating while only one is at the cogging point. 7 rotors accelerating against one cogging. I think there is promise in magnets. Mainstream telling me that a magnet does not do anything, is basically a promise that it will work :)

Human thinking always goes to bigger rocket, bigger explosion, bigger coils. I think it is very possible we need to go inward and smaller. not outward and bigger.

We are being told that sound is powerless, but you can create a start in a jar with sound. That collapsing water bubble can reach the temp of the Sun and it is self contained. It collapses to itself. So why not make liquid helium and liquid hydrogen soup and create the bubble in that? That to me is room temperature fusion with sound.
Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #4,  »Last edited
Patrick1 thx for the document! Very interesting information. It says 2 separate output coils, but I'm not sure if that is necessary. Don Smith's L2 that is outside of the movable L1 (can't remember the device name) is 2 counter wound coils with a center tap. That center tap then goes to cap negative and both ends of the L2 go through a diode to the positive side of the load caps. Same idea. Bucking coils

My first ever benchwork was to figure out are they lying when they say "you need a closed circuit for charges to move, so every electric circuit must be closed". As my research is based on the idea that there is 100% certainty for suppression, I want to test all "rules" and "laws" that are basically just limits for our framework. I found out you don't need a closed circuit and you don't need 2 wires. So then you are faced with the question why are they telling us this lie? Well that is the suppression in action. What else goes missing if you have an open circuit. Well Lenz does. If Lenz goes away, then every generator in the universe is OU.

We have 98% COP generators meaning 98% of the energy that moves that shaft is turned into electricity. Only 2% goes to friction and I2R losses. What if we remove Lenz from that, so the shaft does not feel the load?

haxar

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #5,  »
Quote from Belfior on February 4th, 02:28 AM
My first ever benchwork was to figure out are they lying when they say "you need a closed circuit for charges to move, so every electric circuit must be closed". [...] I found out you don't need a closed circuit and you don't need 2 wires.
You need a closed-loop path for currents (AC/DC) (TEM waves) to move, but not for impulses/electrostatic (LMD waves) where they can travel an open-loop or one wire.

Matt Watts

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #6,  »
Haxar, I think there is more to it than that.  It's not just TEM or LMD.  There is rotation involved.  How much rotation per length of conductor is the missing piece.

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=3134.msg51809#msg51809

Belfior

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #7,  »
Quote from haxar on February 4th, 03:53 AM
You need a closed-loop path for currents (AC/DC) (TEM waves) to move, but not for impulses/electrostatic (LMD waves) where they can travel an open-loop or one wire.
I thought transverse waves did not move? They are standing with changing amplitude. So what is the "cork" those waves are moving in the LMD?

haxar


Belfior

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #9,  »Last edited
Sooo with open circuits I am using longitudinal waves and the neon bulb lights up with no current?

Also not a big fan of the current atom/particle theory. Do we actually have moving electrons inside the wires, or are the conductors more or less just wave guides?

and is a Tesla coil a way of making the field move really fast when it jumps from turn to turn and amperage has to go the long way of actually traversing through the wire?

patrick1

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #10,  »
Quote from Lynx on February 2nd, 04:27 AM
I have a question for you Patrick: Have you ever found anything useful and/or interesting regarding the Howard Johnson permanent magnet motor?
Suffice it to say that would make for quite the build off right here ;-)
I have Played with the basic gates, about 8 years ago when i had a budget of $3.50, i built a rotary arrangement with Ceramics, - but more wrong than right.  - ultimatley many things like that need too be built big, often easier, , tiny comes with too many compromises for rough cheap builders.

magnet motors are very penis orientated. .. there is always a smarter fish.  -

my latest favorite magnet orientation is involved using a "steam train"  linear piston > rotational motion "converter".   too preform the funtion of having magnets push away on eachother, and then bring them back together using angles and their dead zone.

sorry i dont have a video example, its stashed away on my hdd in the abys.   but i know the channel, if you havnt had a browse.. um.. lol

https://www.youtube.com/user/veproject1/videos

Lynx


Belfior

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #12,  »
I think I need to get my magnet motor back on the bench. I get back to work in 2 months and I will make our office 3D printer smoke!

Bought like 20$ school project magnet bearing solar panel device from Bangood and hopefully I can use that as a base or a blueprint
Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #13,  »
Maybe this Don Smith device harvests the LMD of the core or as Bearden said "Poynting vector"?

Don claims it is fully tested and in manufacture. Terfenol-D might be out of my league, but nickel plated steel maybe?

patrick1

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #14,  »
one of the demonstrations i saw him do, was powering 6 or 8 series connected mains voltage incandescant globes.   -  so i think any tesla coil wound for those parameters could acheive this.  , ie PHAT grounding system.  , infact for my don smith replication, i used 10 x 40w globes in series..  but was only able too light them too very dim levels off my ground rods, - and not even using my don smith machine, - using a mains potential, too ground.  - anyhoo that was along time ago,  but i suspect - with a good enough input power, and don was using lead acids,  it is perfectly possible, -   but the input output ratio;s are difficult too work with,  -  like 1 : 3.  cop300.  on a good day.

Belfior

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #15,  »
Quote from patrick1 on February 5th, 09:39 PM
one of the demonstrations i saw him do, was powering 6 or 8 series connected mains voltage incandescant globes.   -  so i think any tesla coil wound for those parameters could acheive this.  , ie PHAT grounding system.  , infact for my don smith replication, i used 10 x 40w globes in series..  but was only able too light them too very dim levels off my ground rods, - and not even using my don smith machine, - using a mains potential, too ground.  - anyhoo that was along time ago,  but i suspect - with a good enough input power, and don was using lead acids,  it is perfectly possible, -   but the input output ratio;s are difficult too work with,  -  like 1 : 3.  cop300.  on a good day.
Which Don's machines you got? The one with batter-NST-cap-L1-ceentertapped L2-load caps? I wonder if the secret is the L1 inside the L2?

patrick1

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #16,  »
haha yes, im hoping i didnt miss a secret, and that the secondary was actually bucking coils. - as implied recently.  - however i am douting this.

it really is a simile device,  according too don also, which is a little odd for famous free nrg guys.

-   also that Was my machine yes, although my s/h nst turned out too have some shorted windings, so i used a number of other hv sources. - but poor results all around. -  im sure i could make it work alot better if i tried again, but tesla based systems are very hard too loop, which is ofcourse what smith was all about.

Belfior

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #17,  »
I have been playing around this concept for awhile and last night  went through Don Smith videos and lotsa stuff he wrote. I think I caught something from his stuff that is what I have been looking into. Funny how you gotta got through his stuff like 20 times before it hits you!

All and I mean ALL his schematics and pictures online are BS. Even what he says in the videos. Like why his suit case device has coils that have opens ends...

I will do some testing this weekend and if you don't hear from me it means there is free energy and you should really think hard if you want SIRI, Amazon Alexa or Google Assistant listening in your house. If I'm back Monday it means there is free energy and they could not get a team here quick enough ;)
Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #18,  »
Quote from Belfior on February 8th, 04:15 PM
I have been playing around this concept for awhile and last night  went through Don Smith videos and lotsa stuff he wrote. I think I caught something from his stuff that is what I have been looking into. Funny how you gotta got through his stuff like 20 times before it hits you!

All and I mean ALL his schematics and pictures online are BS. Even what he says in the videos. Like why his suit case device has coils that have opens ends...

I will do some testing this weekend and if you don't hear from me it means there is free energy and you should really think hard if you want SIRI, Amazon Alexa or Google Assistant listening in your house. If I'm back Monday it means there is free energy and they could not get a team here quick enough ;)
Ok hold the press... This is embarrassing, since this is the 2nd time this happened. Chinese func gen leaks current EVEN WHEN POWERED OFF! I hope this time my iphone survives. If the leads are on the table, you get 40V AC on your bench

patrick1

Re: magnet motor (I know. boooooring)
« Reply #19,  »
i love these electron pumps... i think the steve marks generator was basically the same time.  - however his torroid based design was ( i think ) grounded too the transformers core  ....

when i was replicating the MEG.  - which did not acheive OU . - i accidentally ground the core too the drive coil,

the core is welded from construction ree- bar

and this dramatically improved performance, ( light get much brighter ).  - then i also tried grounding the core too the reasonant secondary.  which had the same effect.

then i tried grounding primary too the core, and secondary too a solid block of steel sitting on my melamine desk(. - which i laser discovered is pictured in stevens picture, as the base of the device ( painted too look like wood of particle board etc. - anyway im sure it was steel..).

then i tried my fat ground rods in the back yard, and was brighter still.. - but not massively improved on the basic 1kg block of steel.

these kind of machines can all yeild OU without too much difficultly. but getting high COP of loopable performance is not so easy.