new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha

evostars

new emails nelson rocha
« Reply #25,  »
Got a result, disruptive discharge in coil L2, not nelsons circuit used, but my own, as drawn in attachment. Dont understand Why. as it happens just before the pulse turns on. had contact with him about it,
sharing it here, only coppied the vital info, left out the personal stuff

Me:
Quote
I tried to overcharge some caps and see if the internally discharge, but then I noticed,
a disruptive discharge in L2.
The spike induces a increase in resonant voltage in L3 (blue sine wave) when properly tuned to the negative maximum.
Nelson, it's not a internal breakdown of the cap I guess (sparkgap), or is it?
 I attached the schematic I used for this test. and scope shots.
blue is resonant L3, red is L2 spike  , and blue square wave from L1
It shows the discharge happening before L1 is turned on. Not expected this.
Nelson:
Quote
About your test just a some rectifications :
In L2 you have the disruptive discharge, but remove the cap in L2 between the ground .The L1 should have a cap in parallel. The  diode should be placed by the anode in the ground terminal of L1, the cathode goes to one terminal of L2 with the other terminal of L2 connected to a capacitor by one of terminal and the other to the "float point" in source .
The L3 is your secondary coil.
Try follow this conf and you will succeed duplicate the circuit .
Quote
'm just try help you reach more fast the objective of put the circuit to work ,after that you will need to tune the circuit , and that part is the more difficulty part :) . One step at time
ME:
Quote
made a drawing of you directions, and I noticed, you didn't use the center tap of the L1 coil, as you showed in the circuit you posted in the forum.  What I heard you say is drawing NR1 connected from gnd of L1 not using center tap
drawing NR 2 has a cap over half of the coil, but diode between L2 and ground
drawing NR3 is both diode and Cap connected to center tap.
Is this diffence, because you are not allowed to speak the full truth due to the contract you signed? I can imagine you are not allowed to speak if this...  or maybe a mistake? asking because i noticed the difference.
Nelson
Quote
ust try made like i advice you really . The circuit could work in different manners and i'm try guide you in basic after that you could modify them if pretend but please try follow my instructions and you will able to duplicate the same results i did . After that for sure your will want modify the circuit or even improve them  , but by now try like i explain please ;).
I'm sharing without any restrictions really .
nelson
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I Will do today a new diagram , more detailed to be more easy be understand the circuit after that Will be more easy to you follow me
me
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I see the difference in the parallel cap to the center tap of L1, and the diodes to the negative.
this one is slightly different than the one posted on the forum.
nelson
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Yes this diagram is more clean and without errors

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Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #26,  »
Quote from matt watts on September 8th, 03:05 AM
Quote from evostars on September 8th, 04:46 AM
Hmm, did a test. I am starting to believe, Nelson doesnt over charge a cap at all to get a disruptive discharge.
I truly hope you are right about this, because finding capacitors that behave exactly right would be very difficult.
Seems Nelson confirmed I'm right (see email below).

The question is what influences the duration of the discharge? Is it pure resistance, or does the impedance of the caps play a part...
Why the coil disruptive discharges the cap
« Reply #27,  »Last edited
In my experiment I got the disruptive discharge in L2 right before L1 got pulsed. But why? What triggered it?

L3 is Resonant and at the point of discharge it has reached the maximum voltage, meaning the magnetic field is zero in L3

L1 is already void if energy, as it has given away its magnetic field energy into the inductive spike, charging the cap, when the pulse was turned of.

So could the l3 coils magnetic field act as a diode, preventing the coupled l2 coil to flow in the opposite direction? due to the magnetic field it would form, opposed by L3's magnetic field.

there is only one but.
there are 2 periods between discharges. why is it happening only at the second maximum negative if resonant coil L3?

I will repeat the test, and short out L3, and see if it has influence on the discharge.

I really desire to understand why the cap discharges right at this point

ADDITION :
the diode between L1 and L2 keeps the negative voltage in the cap, but L2 also shows the resonant sine of L3.

could this voltage difference open the diode between the cap of L2, and L1?

but then why the negative spike...

I can have little tantrums when I fail to understand whats going  on.
"I demand to know! I WANT TO UNDERSTAND"
haha :fighting:

ADDITION 2:
can we look at L2 an L3 as two plates of a capacitor? L2 is negative charged by the inductive spike, and the capacitors. L3 is resonant and also at its maximum charge (with no magnetic vortex).
Is it a dielectric discharge between these 2 coils? the coils acting as plates of a capacitor?
Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #28,  »Last edited
Did some tests today with the disruptive discharged L2 coil (my own circuit not nelsons) See circuit below.

red is L2 blue is L3 except for newfile1010 and newfile1011 (reversed the probes) 10V/div + 10:1 probe = 100V/div
All the discharges, are right before L1 pulse turn on (by mosfet)

 WHY IS HERE AN DISRUPTIVE DISCHARGE IMPULSE??

newfile1006; 0.66A; 24,4Vdc; 61.67kHz ;830nS discharge ; probes 10:1 ; testpoint probe 2 (discharge) and probe 2 (sine) c1=0.1uF ; c2=40nF
newfile1007: zoom of newfile1006.showing 820ns discharge time

newfile1008: changed C1 to 0.01uF ; 0.73A ; 23.8 Vdc ; 61.83kHz
newfile1009 zoom of newfile1008, showing 830nS discharge

newfile1010 changed C1 to 1nF ; 0.45A  17.5Vdc 830nS discharge of around -300V
newfile 1011 ; L3 shorted out (produced potent sparks!) 0.1A 1705Vdc  -575 (rest the same of newfile1010)

1nF worked best at C1, less DC power needed, to produced decent discharge.
No change in impulse time (830nS) should also be dependent on resistance of the system.

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discharge before pulse starts, without L3
« Reply #29,  »Last edited
Did one more test with the previous setup. Removed L3 from the 3 bifilar coil stack.
at lower frequencies, a small bump is visible, just befor the pulse starts again.



Measured (blue) the 50% duty pulse at the gate of the mosfet,
and between the cap and L2 (red). both probes 10:1

c1 is 1nF

the ringing of L2 can be seen, the inductive spike also is there. but what is that dip just before the pulse turns on again?

Still dont know what is happening here. Is it a response from the earth ground?

just did probe around, dip also shows up on L1

probed earth ground of L2, shows a 200mV spike, and 5mV ring. but no big dip

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Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #30,  »
Something is going on. but cant figure it out yet.
Did enough tests with this setup.
Will rebuild (re use) the circuit, to Nelsons circuit. will be using 10 to 50nF caps 400V rating.
Maybe this will give more data, and make a bit more sense
Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #31,  »
Build nelsons circuit, C2 if  big increases the current draw, I guess It needs to be small below 500pF

it is parallel over one winding of L1, so it might have something to do with L1 being capacitive coupled with L2 on only 1 side.

If C2 is connected, L1 shows ringing in the center tap.

will remove it and see if I can tune C3 and C4, and get more data.

will post more data. first enjoy the sun, its 25C Nice and warm

Matt Watts

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #32,  »Last edited
C2 as of this schematic correct?



That's the one shunting half of the bifilar L1 coil.   Yes, I would think it to be fairly small.  Let me ask, is L1 the pancake coil that Nelson smears on the ferrous paste?  And is it the same side/coil where C2 is connected?  Or the other side?


Might I also ask:  Did Nelson give any indications of what should happen when things are getting close to correct?  I mean, will the current draw go down as the device begins to power itself?  That diode (D3) on the positive rail would indicate to me the circuit is capable of back-feeding the power source.

evostars

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #33,  »
Quote from Matt Watts on September 11th, 01:43 PM
C2 as of this schematic correct?

yes that circuit
Quote from Matt Watts on September 11th, 01:43 PM
That's the one shunting half of the bifilar L1 coil.   Yes, I would think it to be fairly small.  Let me ask, is L1 the pancake coil that Nelson smears on the ferrous paste?  And is it the same side/coil where C2 is connected?  Or the other side?


Might I also ask:  Did Nelson give any indications of what should happen when things are getting close to correct?  I mean, will the circuit draw go down as the device begins to power itself?  That diode (D3) on the positive rail would indicate to me the circuit is capable of back-feeding the power source.
good question, yes I believe he used ferrous paste on it. not sure. only know from the video. think it has little effect. increase in inductance but only slightly.

more important, is it the winding that is coupled (capacitive) to L2 or the other side? facing outwards that gets the parallel cap, correcting the capacitance of the L1 coil seems.... useless...

but there is so much more going on. I feel its a way to fine tune the disruptive diacharge.

on the other hand, I suspect a pumping function.

one thing is for sure, If  c2 is to big, it only sucks more amps.

tomorrow I'll work on it again

Matt Watts

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #34,  »
Quote from evostars on September 11th, 01:56 PM
one thing is for sure, If  c2 is to big, it only sucks more amps.
That's exactly what I was getting at.  Maybe (big question mark), you want it to suck more amps because that current gets amplified at L3 instead of internally reducing the amp draw.  So my concern is knowing how to properly loop this thing so it can be tuned.  Have to know what to shoot for in order to hit anything.

evostars

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #35,  »
I wonder if L2 is reversed, in the drawing it is.
could have been drawn easily without reversing, why the extra trouble
Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #36,  »Last edited
Did some measurements after tuning the circuit a little bit. not tuned very proper, but enough data to share and analyze.
L2 in not reversed in this setup, but I feel it should be in the next tests.

tested with multimeter in Vdc with negative to earth ground. Seems the whole circuit is floating (didnt connect earth ground)
I used the square red boxes, with 3 digit numbers to refer to the scope shots. (newfile1001 would be 001)

I drive the mosfet with a pulse transformer, driven by a gate driver Ic

L3 is resonant (tuned with 40nF parallel) is the Red lead (channel1) both probes 10:1
Newfile113 c1= 800uF (big at least) C2=1nF c3=10nF c4=22nF c5=22nF
used 12.9Vdc 0.64A powersupply (floating) 61.57kHz (tuned for spike before pulse on) probed @source of mosfet
newfile114 Same setup, but 0.97A 19.6Vdc
newfile115 shows the 50% duty square wave feeding the pulse transformer. and L3

Conclusions:
L2 is biased on a positive DC, while the disruptive discharge is when L3 is maximum negative, if seen as capacitor plates, L2 and L3 have maximum voltage difference. Seems the circuit is intended to make a big voltage difference between L2 and L3.
As the circuit is floating, the questing rises, where to ground the circuit? If done at the source, as suggested by nelson, V+ would short cut to ground via the mosfet... bad idea...

newfile116 shows the disruptive discharge in L2. the signal is still wobly, should be a sine like L3 I guess.
Also the inductive spike still is punching/spiking. I feel this should not occur, C2 C3 adn C4 could be designed to prevent this (buffer/dampen the inductive spike at mosfet turn off, by charging)

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Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #37,  »Last edited
L2 is the series parallel coil.
the parallel part is the l2 l3 coupled resonance.

the series part is L2 having series resonance with C4 (and C3?)

at the same time L2 is resonating
it should also have the disruptive discharge.

that discharge is now more or less there as you van see in newfile116

but the resonance clearly isn't...

so I guess, C4 has got to be the right value, so it becomes series resonant with L2. its now 22nf Lets see what happens with 44nf

I never worked with series resonance before, so is this even possible?

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #38,  »
nelsons response :
Quote
Hi Ivo ,

Hope you goes well about your tests:

The floating ground can not be connect to the negative terminal V- is a floating ground in source of mosfet, and should be connected to a mass or diferent ground of input negative rail, could be used a long wire to .

In L3 you put a capacitor in parallel already without a load connected ? You should avoid do that in the process of tunning, you need have a load . Put a load like a incandescent bulb in the terminal of L3 and start search the resonant freq. In the circuits i show in vídeos i use the frequencie about 80 to 100khz without load , and up to 800khz when is connected a load . In the process of tunning you should tune to low consume in idle mode you should see something like i show in the scope on this vídeo .https://youtu.be/J1wMalWqa7o?t=27

The blue is the current the yellow is the voltage . You could see that is very low the current used in iddle mode .

Im already finish a small version of my oscilator circuit to able shot some vídeos about the process of tunning the circuit. I will try do some vídeos in end of week

Matt Watts

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #39,  »
Quote from Nelson Rocha
Im already finish a small version of my oscilator circuit to able shot some vídeos about the process of tunning the circuit. I will try do some vídeos in end of week
Certainly worth the wait for that.  Could be golden...

evostars

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #40,  »Last edited
nelson replied, after me telling i started feeling sick.
turned out to be radiation poisoning.
Slept allday, ate healthy food and began feeling better quickly.

ordered a soeks radiation meter just now.
https://soeks-usa.com/products/best-radiation-detector-geiger-counter-dosimeter-prime

Nelsons reply
Quote
I hope you have taken all sorts of protective measures during oscillator testing in your bench.
Did you already use any EMF detector when running the tests or the radiation meter ? If not you should like i warn you about possible bad radiations you should use a bracelet anti static connected to ground connection  when you are work with such circuits .

About the your question :
  in the video i show to you in last email, The probes of scope are connected in L3 :) in the output coil .
Let me stress you with one thing :
The L3 coil will be the secondary coil the output coil  To be more easy  tune the circuit , simple let L3 without any cap and with a resistive load connected in L3 tune the freq until reach max output current in the load connected in L3 .
going to take plenty of rest.
Neslon had shown a video to me with high doses of radiation from his device...
said 600 to 1000V was safe

but untuned it seems being worse.
I had 500v discharges, and hooked up a brass octaeder as virtual ground on the source of the mosfet

haxar

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #41,  »
LMD waves, or the waves from this circuit in whatever combination, may as well influence the molecules in the environment to go into an unstable state, thus giving out this gamma radiation.

The opposite effect would be beneficial, if you could make a circuit that would make waste unstable uranium go into a stable state.

evostars

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #42,  »
Quote from haxar on September 13th, 11:58 PM
LMD waves, or the waves from this circuit in whatever combination, may as well influence the molecules in the environment to go into an unstable state, thus giving out this gamma radiation.

The opposite effect would be beneficial, if you could make a circuit that would make waste unstable uranium go into a stable state.
Yes I believe that is possible, read about it before.

Matt Watts

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #43,  »Last edited
When you disruptively alter the binding forces (hybrid tempic & dielectric fields -- a.k.a.  Aetheric pressure or gravity) of the universe, it's logical that matter will be disintegrated, some of that matter being in your body.  However, these binding force alterations can be directional (especially with pancake coils) and is likely why Nelson places his coils vertically left to right as to not be physically inline with the altered fields.  Let me guess, you had your coils laying flat on the bench standing directly over them...  Not a good idea.

The good news about your testing is that you are in fact altering the binding forces.  Many times we have to learn things the hard way.  Glad you are feeling better now.

The next trick is to convert a portion of the binding forces into electrical energy without letting everything transform directly into incoherent fundamental field forces.  You need to capture those dielectric fields in L3.  Everything needs to be tuned to L3 so that can happen; Nelson explained his method pretty clearly.
Quote from Nelson Rocha
The L3 coil will be the secondary coil the output coil  To be more easy  tune the circuit , simple let L3 without any cap and with a resistive load connected in L3 tune the freq until reach max output current in the load connected in L3 .
My feeling is:  The better this transformation of energy (higher efficiency), the less side effects the device will produce.  The catch is:  Regardless of efficiency, this device disrupts & converts binding forces.  So when it's switched on, any matter in proximity to it will be in a state of higher entropy (lower binding forces), meaning it's "normal" lifespan will be shortened.  I think over time we will come to know "Free Energy" has a price to pay.  It's not entirely free.


~Russ

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #44,  »
Yep. I also felt quite suck after playing with high power in one of my rodin coils...

Must take it seriously.  Build a small faraday cage you can sit around the unit on test.

Good work so far! Its nice to see some progress! ;)
~Russ

evostars

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #45,  »Last edited
thanks Russ,
Tuesday my gamma and beta radiation meter will arrive, I hope this will give a good warning signal.

I intend to keep it on for much less time, and keep a distance.

I suspect when it is tuned right, the radiation will disappear as it transforms into a current into the load.

magnetic field in coil acting as a diode
« Reply #46,  »Last edited
a coil with magnetic field (L3) can only conduct in one direction. this way a secondary coupled coil(L2) , can also only conduct in one direction, as the magnetic field only allows (free) flow in one direction.

once the magnetic field is gone (all magnetic energy is tranformed into dielectric energy at the peak of the sine or valley) the energy build up in the capacitor is allowed to move freely through the coil again, until the magnetic field of L1 again stops the flow in one direction. this provides the short discharge in L2

so the coils act as diodes, by the polarity of the magnetic field.

this is a variation of the magnetic quenched sparkgap (in a way).

I do not know for sure this is what happens. but it's the best theory until now.
 
But why do I need to tune it to a specific frequency? why is it depending on this frequency?
and is the voltage really coming from the capacitor (charged by the inductive spike)?

Matt Watts

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #47,  »
Quote from evostars on September 15th, 04:04 PM
But why do I need to tune it to a specific frequency? why is it depending on this frequency?
and is the voltage really coming from the capacitor (charged by the inductive spike)?
Phase alignment of mutual inductance setting up the conditions for a negative inductor.  Russ can explain all about that.

~Russ

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #48,  »
Yeah,  I have to ask a question.  I have to do this in order to help you answer your own question. If I have 2 coils in parallel, each coil is the same. with a voltage applied,  in this case an AC voltage connected across the parallel connections. And thses coils are mutually coppled. 

The question is:
do the currents in both coils always travel the same direction? (In this case in one 1/2 cycle of the AC)

This is a verry hard question to answer. Logic and theory tells us the answer. But im finding out this answer is hard to answer. 

Whats your answer? Then ill explain mine.

~Russ


evostars

Re: new oscillaror circuit shared By Nelson Rocha
« Reply #49,  »
2 coils in parallel.
I assume mutual coupled but not parallel connected,
and bifilar pancakes (only worked with those)

do currents travel the same polarity?
I assume @ resonance.

I base my answers on a square wave, but its basically the same for ac.

voltage is maximum at start of 1/2 and minimum at end of 1/2 phase.
in the middle at 1/4 voltage is zero, meaning amps are max.

now is it positive or negative current at max 1/4 phase?

magnetic field is transformed voltage (dielectric field) and takes time to build up...

I don't know right now, I'll get back to it when logic gives the answer (8 am right now :rofl2:)