First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)

Matt Watts

LC Filtering
« Reply #25,  »
Don't be afraid of re-examining your setup in the light of LC filters.
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa701a/slaa701a.pdf

I suspect you will find something if you look close enough.

Lynx

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #26,  »
Couldn't you just use the very last power amp stage in your own design?
This looks very much like any power amp output stage I've found schematics for and as you'd be designing it yourself the cost would come down to the individual semiconductors.
Just a thought.


nav

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #27,  »
Right I have the system in bits again, the amp has been lighting bulbs up to 3amp so no problem there and dead short is 6 amp, plenty of juice but the secondaries ability to perform complex modulated signals is garbage to the point there is no current so I either modify it or replace it.
Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #28,  »
Just testing transformers at different hz rates. I have one that produces the full output of the audio amp at 60hz 80v, at 200hz produces 3.5amp 80v  but at 2000hz only produces 0.8 amp at 80v. These are all mains types so no good, need a 5 amp audio transformer. Looks like i'm gonna after purchase another audio amp as a secondary.

Matt Watts

Keep Forgetting...
« Reply #29,  »Last edited
I keep forgetting to show you this Nav.  It wasn't what I was after, but very curious nevertheless.  It's a current driver with feedback connected to a small coil.  If you actually want the output current to track the input voltage, you can't use feedback with an inductive output.  You have to use a feed-forward system instead.  Which is the direction I ended up taking.

When the inductor is energized, the feedback doesn't initially see any current, so it keeps pouring the coal to the inductor.  At some point the inductor begins to saturate than woo-hoo, too much current, stop everything!  So what you get is an oscillation that follows whatever waveform is presented.  Kind of an interesting modulation mechanism.  One caution though, the MOSFET gets hot, very hot, very fast.  If you drive pretty much anything else resistive or capacitive, no problem.  With an inductor, hang on to your hat, that MOSFET will melt the solder right out of the circuit board, even with a massive heatsink.

The yellow trace in the scope shot is the voltage input signal and the purple/pink trace is the current output delivered by the MOSFET.

nav

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #30,  »
I've just switched secondaries and trying to see what's going on with Andrija Puharich's design and I've come up with some very interesting observations and conclusions which fortify more or less what Gunther was saying about Puharich's cell but first let me tell you what I think has happened. This is VERY important.
I think that Andrija Puharich discovered the technology and that it is indeed based on an AM waveform of a modulation and a carrier wave. If you look at Puharich's design, it is based on a much smaller cell than I've been using for the type of power i'm outputting.
Now, Stan decided that an audio system cannot possibly output enough energy for the amount of gas he needed in his applications so he took Puharich's idea and modified it in the best way he could. So he took the power from an alternator and the power from a variac which have two different frequencies and he modulated one over the other so that one became the carrier wave and one became the modulation. He then used an SCR switch driven by a gating system which parameters were 'pulse on' and 'pulse off'. The frequency of that SCR switch is the same as the modulation but 90 degrees out of phase and this is what you end up with:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUiqmvwC6xE&feature=youtu.be

You will notice that the only systems in Stan's video's visibly producing gas are driven by an alternator in his car and tube set, forget all the many schematics, we're only interested in real systems that work.
So Stan is using a full bridge rectifier to create a positive pulse train of a low frequency but with an high current potential, he then modulates it with a similar but higher frequency high current potential. It is gated at the modulation frequency but 90 degrees out of phase and fed through a choke that is resonant at the at modulation frequency. The chokes ARE NOT RESONANT WITH THE CELL, this is why when everyone tries to do that it doesn't work, the chokes ARE RESONANT AT THE MODULATION FREQUENCY so that the choke becomes an 100% inductor at that frequency.
You are now going to ask - 'where is the voltage coming from'?
Last night I step charged a capacitor to 46v for the very first time but it took 10 minutes with my low current system using the above signal in the video. I'll tell you what happens. The chokes becomes induced at the carrier and modulation frequencies BUT they are under a no load situation because there is ABSOLUTELY NO RESONANCE BETWEEN THE CHOKE AND THE CELL, ITS THE WORST CASE SCENARIO TO HAVE IT. The very nature of a choke is that it blocks current at the resonant frequency. Stan's modulations are 120hz but his carrier is 60hz. His choke is resonant at exactly 120hz and when it blocks the modulation current, it also blocks the carrier current because the choke cannot differentiate between the currents in a complex signal like this and that is down to the core, it see's it as only one potential current. The voltage escapes because it leads the current in phase and it leaves the choke at the carrier frequency but still retains voltage amplitudes of the modulation. BUT, the entire inductance energy field can leave the choke as voltage on the carrier frequency. In simple terms you induce current into the choke at one frequency where it's resonant (modulation) and you allow it to leave at another frequency where it's not (carrier).
I'll tell you about the step charge effect and what it does to a capacitor. The above signal in the video is a complex signal of carrier wave, modulation and gate. Once rectified with a diode the signal pretty much replicates Stan's signal and Stan discovered something that Puharich never realized. If you're in a situation where you have a capacitor and a Carrier wave with modulation amplitude form and you charge the cap, the very nature of the modulation form of the carrier causes a zero-peek-zero charge effect which is diminishing, if you add a diode then the signal is still zero-peek-zero in nature and is still diminishing. HOWEVER, if you gate the signal like I did in the above video and chop away 50% of the signal then you end up with a zero-peek UNDIMINISHED signal. Now, a capacitor will try and discharge itself at the same rate that it was charged from an inductor and will always try and form a tank circuit with the inductor when the inductor has finished it's half of the cycle. By this time we've charged the cap at peek value and not allowed it to diminish because the modulation finishes at peek value. The cap cannot discharge because of the diode blocking that direction and shortly another burst of zero-peak arrives because the choke is acting regardless of what the cap  is doing. There is no resonance between the choke and the cap, it's the last thing you need. What you are doing is pulse charging a cap at peek value and not allowing it to respond. I'm taking a vacation but when I get back i'll show you in more detail.
The whole idea and essence behind Puharich and Stan's designs are that they allow carrier waves together with their voltage amplitude form to pass through a system's current choking device into a target. Normally, if you use just one frequency in a choke, it will allow lower frequencies to pass but will also allow current to pass at that lower frequency. At the frequency the choke is resonant at, if you pass that frequency alone and no other then the choke will block the voltage too generally speaking. Because the carrier frequency in these designs is BELOW the resonant frequency then the carrier voltage will pass unhindered taking the voltage amplitude form with it but not the current because the modulation current and carrier current are locked as an inseparable magnetic field in the core. BTW. I step charged my plate cap to 46v out of water at about 5v per minute with a signal similar to the one above at 40hz modulation and 20hz carrier, that was the best I could do because my chokes are not really resonant at low frequency, only partially so the process is slow. My new secondary likes 20hz and produces power there but the chokes are resonant at 1990hz where the secondary does not produce good current.
These are my findings of 2018 so far and all my builds will be based on this principle in the future. I hope you all enjoyed by fact finding expedition.
My advice to anyone building stuff: You can use bog standard transformers to get your power up, you need a modulated carrier wave and a gate, you can do it like Stan by using a alternator/variac design, one modulating the other but you still need a choke which is resonant at the modulator frequency and a gate that is pulse on - pulse off and can carry an AM signal such as a really good accurate H-bridge design.
The cell will not be resonant with the choke, the size of the cell is determined by how many volts per mm2 that your carrier frequency is capable of. Have fun.
Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #31,  »
BTW, when the cap is step charging, each step represents one batch of carrier frequency, if you reduce the time between each batch, it step charges quicker. Stan did this by altering his duty cycle pulse width on his pulse on - pulse off system on the SCR. That's how he's controlling the throttle on the buggy.

Matt Watts

The Right Track
« Reply #32,  »
Quote from nav on July 31st, 11:04 AM
I'm taking a vacation but when I get back i'll show you in more detail.
Good stuff Nav!   :thumbsup:

Be safe and enjoy yourself.

Try to think about how filters behave with complex waveforms.  I'm most certain you have the concept nailed.  If we can come up with a very logical, optimal filter mechanism and the proper input signals, this whole process will be see-spot-run easy.  Anybody should be able to do it.

Also, thanks much for sticking around and keeping the juices flowing.  There's only one way out of this maze--either pass or fail.  We're a lot closer to passing than failing now.

Lynx

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #33,  »
Saved to the already more than interesting document I'm compiling from your work Nav.
Have a nice vacation :thumbsup:

nav

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #34,  »
Quote from Matt Watts on July 31st, 12:44 PM
Good stuff Nav!   :thumbsup:

Be safe and enjoy yourself.

Try to think about how filters behave with complex waveforms.  I'm most certain you have the concept nailed.  If we can come up with a very logical, optimal filter mechanism and the proper input signals, this whole process will be see-spot-run easy.  Anybody should be able to do it.

Also, thanks much for sticking around and keeping the juices flowing.  There's only one way out of this maze--either pass or fail.  We're a lot closer to passing than failing now.
Oh we're close alright, of that I can assure you.

Alberto

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #35,  »
So strange you have no gas... :-/
Have you tried this???


nav

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #36,  »Last edited
Quote
So strange you have no gas... :-/
Have you tried this???
No but i've tried this nudge nudge wink wink.

Matt Watts

Mustang Sally
« Reply #38,  »
Quote from nav on July 31st, 02:43 PM
C1?
Yeah, a lot in my youth, but I'm not like that anymore.  ;-)


nav

Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #39,  »
Quote from Matt Watts on July 31st, 02:53 PM
Yeah, a lot in my youth, but I'm not like that anymore.  ;-)

I was referring to the C1 in the circuit lol and phase. C1 and R1 cause the bridge rectifier current to lag the audio left channel output current (modulator) otherwise the carrier dominates the circuit. The modulation current must hit the choke first otherwise the choke will allow the carrier current to pass the choke at the wrong frequency but this applies to this particular circuit.
Re: First tests with the new Audio driver and another important discovery (2 vids)
« Reply #40,  »
You have to slow that Mustang down.