Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #75,  »
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
My God it's like being stuck on a turnpike.
The equipment is an extension of your nervous system.
No, the equipment is merely equipment. It can collect, collate, analyse and corroborate data completely devoid of any human interaction. We see the end result of that process, which we use our mathematics to analyse, so we don't go off into the brambles of mysticism like claiming the universe is sentient and deconstructs all matter we're not looking at.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
I think I know what your problem is Cycle.
That I don't suffer fools gladly. :D
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
You don't understand what your nervous system is. For the record: Your nervous system which includes all your five senses gathers data from an UNKNOWN SOURCE which it receives through those senses and inputs it into your brain. Human beings have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what form the Universe takes outside of those senses.
Yes, yes we do. That's why we build equipment to collect data, and why we use mathematics to model the universe.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
The Universe could have no shape, no light, no sound, no smells or anything. In fact it could be just a stream of pure data or a binary sequence. Everything we build to measure the Universe is built as an extension of the nervous system.So we build radio telescopes to receive data that we THEN CONVERT into one of our five senses PMSL, you really are funny sometimes. As long as it makes you happy Cycle.Because fundamentally we don't understand the function of time Universally.
Yes, we do. You don't.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
We see the creation of the Universe as a linear event with a start and a finish but the Quantum world see's no such thing. The creation of life, the creation of the Universe and you and I typing frantically for browny points are all events which happen simultanously within the Quantum field.
No. You've just completely chucked all of science out the window.

Define "the Quantum field" or admit you're merely throwing out key words and tricky phrases in an attempt at appearing to know what you're talking about.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
There is no time, there is only 'now'.
Then there is no past, no future? Remember when you claimed the universe was sentient and could instantaneously deconstruct and reconstruct entire swaths of the universe when it caught us looking in that direction? Well, that didn't happen because there is no past. :rofl:
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
No, I have no interest in mathematics where this is concerned.
Then you have no interest in the truth.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 12:59 PM
If I want to build a garage and measure up sizes, it's great. If i'm trying to imagine or understand Quantum weirdness then there comes a point where it's no longer of any use.
That's where mathematics is the most useful, Nav. At least, it is to those who understand it. For you, you just want to make up fairy tales, and you don't dare question whether or not your blather is true, so you engage in no reality-checks... hence your fairy-tale sentient universe which is at odds with reality.

State the exact speed of plane-wave light in vacuum, in SI units, or admit you just want to spew out fairy-tales, Nav. You can't advance your knowledge if you never challenge it.

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #76,  »
OK i've tried all the familiar routes to try and make you understand the nature of reality and our own relationship with the Universe so I'll just have to do it the hard way.
Cycle, forget about the mathematics for just a moment and participate in a simple exercise:
1. Try to think of a color that has never been seen before. Describe the color as accurately as you can without venturing too close to an existing color.
2. You have five main senses plus a few more minor senses such as balance and coordination etc which are really a combination of a few of the main senses. Name me a sense of something that has never been heard of before, describe it as accurate as you can without venturing too close to a sense we already have.
3. This is the most important question. Describe the Universe as accurately as you can without using any terminology associated with using the senses you already have.
Fire away.

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #77,  »
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 01:42 PM
OK i've tried all the familiar routes to try and make you understand the nature of reality and our own relationship with the Universe so I'll just have to do it the hard way.
Cycle, forget about the mathematics for just a moment and participate in a simple exercise:
1. Try to think of a color that has never been seen before. Describe the color as accurately as you can without venturing too close to an existing color.
2. You have five main senses plus a few more minor senses such as balance and coordination etc which are really a combination of a few of the main senses. Name me a sense of something that has never been heard of before, describe it as accurate as you can without venturing too close to a sense we already have.
3. This is the most important question. Describe the Universe as accurately as you can without using any terminology associated with using the senses you already have.
Fire away.
Your attempt at shifting the conversation away from the fact that you've been proven wrong on all of your assertions fails from its outset, Nav.

You're still attempting to convince people to just "forget about the mathematics" and listen to your fairy tales, for which you provide no substantiation. That's not science. It's about as far from science as one can get.

So while I'm using mathematics to prove you wrong, you're making pleas to hyperbolic doubt... the same as David Yurth did in the post I linked to and quoted from above. It's what all pseudoscience advocates do, because they know their fairy tales cannot withstand scientific scrutiny.

If even the slightest doubt exists for a theory (even if you have to manufacture that doubt out of whole cloth by conflating your own ignorance to that of the progenitors of that theory), you want everyone to throw it out, and rely only upon their own intuition to construct the epistemological foundation upon which to construct their reality. That's mysticism in a nutshell... Descartes used it to remove his dubiosity over the existence of a creator, then went on from there to construct a philosophy which railed against scholasticism... he didn't want people to actually learn anything, he wanted them to use only their minds to construct their realities, devoid of any input... that way lies insanity.

"Dubito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum" should not be a badge of honor that you parade about with. It's what insane people use to justify their insanity by doubting everything, so their own insanity appears to them to be just as valid as any other idea. If all ideas are equally doubted, all ideas are equally valid.

If Descartes had been thinking correctly, he would have used "sum ergo cogito, cogito ergo dubito"... but thinking first and doubting any dubious assertions means having to do that hard work of figuring out what is real and what is not, and that includes using mathematics.

And that's something you've demonstrated you're unwilling to do.

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #78,  »
Still waiting for the color....
If you can't think of one let me know why.
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #79,  »
This applies to other forum members:-
Why can't we think of a color we've never seen?
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #80,  »
Do people think that colors exist we've never seen, do people think there are senses we don't have? Are we as fully equipped a machine as we think we are. What if there are species in a distant Galaxy that have much more advanced eyes than us and can see 10,000 more colors than us. Where does that leave us?
What does all of this tell us about ourselves?

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #81,  »
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 02:11 PM
Still waiting for the color....
If you can't think of one let me know why.
There is no need to provide a long description of a color we've never seen with our eyes, we have science which not only accurately but succinctly describes it, and machines which can accurately sense it, no eyes required. For instance, if I state "0.00003 nm", that's all I have to state to satisfy your query.

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #82,  »
Quote from Cycle on July 21st, 2018, 02:25 PM
There is no need to provide a long description of a color we've never seen with our eyes, we have science which not only accurately but succinctly describes it, and machines which can accurately sense it, no eyes required. For instance, if I state "0.00003 nm", that's all I have to state to satisfy your query.
Show me the color state 0.00003 nm. I can't wait to see it.
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #83,  »Last edited
Oh I do hope its brownish

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #84,  »Last edited by Cycle
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 02:28 PM
Show me the color state 0.00003 nm. I can't wait to see it.
I do encourage you to stare directly at a hard gamma ray source, Nav. :D

Of course, you'll have to figure out how to make your eyes wonky such that you can continue staring at the sun with one eye and the hard gamma ray source with the other eye... remember, if you stop staring at the sun, your belief system states that the universe will erase it, its gravity will disappear and we'll all fly off into space. You're the only one saving the entire world from doom, Nav. So keep staring at the sun. You're a hero. :D

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #85,  »
Quote from Cycle on July 21st, 2018, 02:34 PM
:'(
I do encourage you to stare directly at a hard gamma ray source, Nav. :D
No, you're off the beaten track. I want to see a color no one's seen before.
While we are at it, we've all heard about the scales which we can see and feel such as density, temperature, hardness, mass, velocity, time, size and distance, get one of your machines to find a scale no one's ever heard of that's outside of human capability. You can't, you can't do it because you can only program the machine to search for parameters that fall into what a human being is capable of understanding and sensing. Machines are just longer fingers for us. We have limitations as animals, our senses allow us to probe only as far we are capable of. Only a fool would be naive or stupid enough to suggest we have the full set of Universal tools necessary to witness all. We are trapped in our own machine and just like a computer, we have limitations.

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #86,  »
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 02:47 PM
No, you're off the beaten track. I want to see a color no one's seen before.
I provided you the exact description of a color no one has ever seen before. How you decide to see it is up to you, but I've already encouraged you to stare long and hard at that gamma ray source, Nav. :)
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 02:47 PM
While we are at it, we've all heard about the scales which we can see and feel such as density, temperature, hardness, mass, velocity, time, size and distance, get one of your machines to find a scale no one's ever heard of that's outside of human capability. You can't, you can't do it because you can only program the machine to search for parameters that fall into what a human being is capable of understanding and sensing.
There is no parameter in the universe which exists which we cannot sense and measure with our machines, Nav, or at the very least sense the effects. You're attempting to claim that there is some magical force out there that we can't sense which explains all your fairy-tale blather.

What is this magical force, Nav? Do get right on accurately describing what it is that makes your fairy-tale universe work the way it does.

Is it magic, or merely wishful thinking? :D
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 02:47 PM
Machines are just longer fingers for us. We have limitations as animals, our senses allow us to probe only as far we are capable of. Only a fool would be naive or stupid enough to suggest we have the full set of Universal tools necessary to witness all. We are trapped in our own machine and just like a computer, we have limitations.
Then you'll have no problem telling everyone exactly what exists which we cannot sense with our machines, Nav. Be getting right on that.

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #87,  »Last edited
Quote
I provided you the exact description of a color no one has ever seen before. How you decide to see it is up to you, but I've already encouraged you to stare long and hard at that gamma ray source, Nav. :)
I asked you to describe it, if it exists put a picture on the forum.
Quote
There is no parameter in the universe which exists which we cannot sense and measure with our machines, Nav, or at the very least sense the effects. You're attempting to claim that there is some magical force out there that we can't sense which explains all your fairy-tale blather.
Now we are really venturing into foolishness and stupidity. No one is claiming any magical force anywhere. Do you not realize the stupidity of the statement you've just made? Do you not understand that a human being is an animal with limitations? Do you think that we've been dealt the full hand to be able to witness everything that goes on out there? There is being naive and then there's just plain and simple stupidity and to be honest I think I've had enough of this because you're statements are now bordering that of a mad man on the loose.
Quote
Then you'll have no problem telling everyone exactly what exists which we cannot sense with our machines, Nav. Be getting right on that.
Human beings cannot possibly know what happens outside of their own neurological system, no one's ever been there, no one can know if there are undetected scales or forces outside of what our brain understands, again - no one's ever been there. Does it mean our body has the full set of tools and skills to be 100% certain that we know everything - hell no, we understand and sense only what our body allows.
May I recommend a film, it's called 'one flew over the cockoo's nest'.
I bid you farewell master and commander of the Universe, the all knowing, all creating deluxe space super duper professor of all worlds.

PeakPositive

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #88,  »
I have some questions,

If we take a fiber optic cable and fashion it into a circle with an injection port where we can get light normal or laser circulating around and around in the optic cable and then we cut off the light. Will the light continue to circulate or will it just end?

With nothing in the way to stop or block the light should it just keep going forever?

If we turn on a laser beam for say 1 second pointed out into space and it doesn’t hit anything to block it will there be a 1 second long beam of laser light flying through the universe?

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #89,  »
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 03:19 PM
I asked you to describe it, if it exists put a picture on the forum.
I did. 0.00003 nm. Do your own work in getting a picture of it. I won't do all your research for you, especially if you refuse to do it yourself.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 03:19 PM
Now we are really venturing into foolishness and stupidity. No one is claiming any magical force anywhere. Do you not realize the stupidity of the statement you've just made? Do you not understand that a human being is an animal with limitations? Do you think that we've been dealt the full hand to be able to witness everything that goes on out there? There is being naive and then there's just plain and simple stupidity and to be honest I think I've had enough of this because you're statements are now bordering that of a mad man on the loose.Human beings cannot possibly know what happens outside of their own neurological system,
Who's being mad now, Nav? You claim no one can know what's happening outside their own bodies... yet we can look out across vast reaches of the universe. If I were just a bit meaner, I'd say your mental problems were flaring up again... but I'm a nice guy, so I won't say that out loud. :D
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 03:19 PM
no one's over been there, no one can know if there are undetected scales or forces outside of what our brain understands, again - no one's ever been there. Does it mean our body has the full set of tools and skills to be 100% certain that we know everything - hell no, we understand and sense only what our body allows.
May I recommend a film, it's called 'one flew over the cockoo's nest'.
I bid you farewell master and commander of the Universe, the all knowing, all creating deluxe space super duper professor of all worlds.
Keep staring at the sun, Nav. If you glance away for even a fraction of a second, your belief system says the sun winks out of existence and thus so too does the sun's gravity... the Earth might not slip much in its orbit before you looked at the sun again and your magical fairy tale universe reconstructed the sun and restored its gravity, but given a few of those and the Earth is outside its habitable zone.

Try propping your eyes open with toothpicks. That might help. :rofl:

Matt Watts

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #90,  »
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 02:13 PM
This applies to other forum members:-
Why can't we think of a color we've never seen?
Same reason we cannot accurately describe a taste or smell that is completely foreign.  Best we can do is attempt to relate it to something we have already defined.   And yet again, it's still relative, not absolute.

And for grins, shall we reintroduce the Tempic Field?  If you do not understand that term, then forget all about time, it's unknown too.

Sorry Cycle, you're stuck in a box and have willingly accepted the box you created to be your boundaries.  Maybe it's good enough for you, but not for me, Nav, Lynx and countless others.  When this movie comes out,



I'd like you to go see it.

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #91,  »
Quote from PeakPositive on July 21st, 2018, 03:37 PM
I have some questions,

If we take a fiber optic cable and fashion it into a circle with an injection port where we can get light normal or laser circulating around and around in the optic cable and then we cut off the light. Will the light continue to circulate or will it just end?

With nothing in the way to stop or block the light should it just keep going forever?

If we turn on a laser beam for say 1 second pointed out into space and it doesn’t hit anything to block it will there be a 1 second long beam of laser light flying through the universe?
In a fiber optic, scattering will attenuate the beam eventually. Out in space, yes, there would be a 1 second long beam of laser light flying through the universe. Don't think of it like a beam, though... think of the individual photons. A single photon could traverse the universe if nothing got in its way.

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #92,  »
Quote
Who's being mad now, Nav? You claim no one can know what's happening outside their own bodies... yet we can look out across vast reaches of the universe. If I were just a bit meaner, I'd say your mental problems were flaring up again... but I'm a nice guy, so I won't say that out loud. :D
No Cycle, you are looking at what your brain is telling you, your brain is gathering data from a source but that data outside of your neurological system may paint a very different picture than that of your brain. If you can't understand this no one can help you. You just can't picture any reality that doesn't fit into what you've been used to all your life.
Quote
Keep staring at the sun, Nav. If you glance away for even a fraction of a second, your belief system says the sun winks out of existence and thus so too does the sun's gravity... the Earth might not slip much in its orbit before you looked at the sun again and your magical fairy tale universe reconstructed the sun and restored its gravity, but given a few of those and the Earth is outside its habitable zone.

Try propping your eyes open with toothpicks. That might help. :rof
That's almost as bad as some dude somewhere with a calculator trying to work out why he can't fasten his own shoe laces. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :clap2:
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #93,  »
Nothing for 30 minutes, Matt I think you've nailed him.
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #94,  »
Here's a question:
Two men are in separate spacecraft, Fred is sat near a huge gravitational force in his ship and his clock is running at half the speed of Jim who sits out of reach of the gravitational force in his ship. To both men, their respective clock seems normal because time is relative to each of them but Jim in real terms is aging twice as fast as Fred. They decide to do an experiment by firing lasers at a target exactly half way between the two of them. Slight problem, if Jim's clock in real terms is moving at twice the rate of Fred's clock then surely the speed of light of both lasers won't be the same. Although the speed of light seems normal for both men, one laser beam will surely hit the target before the other? Very confusing isn't it?

Cycle

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #95,  »Last edited by Cycle
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 03:50 PM
No Cycle, you are looking at what your brain is telling you,
No, the scientific method means that you pay no heed to anything but the data. It's you who is listening only to his brain, and that's why you're so demonstrably and admittedly psychologically unstable, just as Descartes was (he slept in a room with a constantly burning open-pit fire and used the fumes to induce hallucinations). And just like Descartes, you're attempting to cast doubt on every belief so that your own crazy beliefs are as valid or invalid as any other. It's a transparent attempt. It didn't work for Descartes, and it's certainly not working for you.
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 03:50 PM
your brain is gathering data from a source but that data outside of your neurological system may paint a very different picture than that of your brain. If you can't understand this no one can help you. You just can't picture any reality that doesn't fit into what you've been used to all your life.
I can picture reality. That's all there is. There isn't "any reality" other than reality. Your attempt at claiming truth to be subjective and thus the universe to be subject to mysticism fails. Truth is objective and the universe is deterministic.

Given that you can't even proffer a scientific rationale nor even a mathematical proof for your assertions, you've verged into the realm of religious belief when you blather on about your magical sentient universe, Nav.

And because of your belief system, you're limited in your understanding of reality. Thus, you'll never build any working FE device other than that which you copy from someone else... you won't even develop any plans for a workable device... because you simply don't have a clue how reality works, so any device you devise will be a work of fantasy, and thus a waste of time.

That's reality, Nav. Deal with it.
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #96,  »Last edited by Cycle
Quote from Matt Watts on July 21st, 2018, 03:39 PM
Sorry Cycle, you're stuck in a box and have willingly accepted the box you created to be your boundaries.
My "box" is reality and the scientific method. Feel free to unhinge yourself from reality at your own risk.
Quote from Matt Watts on July 21st, 2018, 03:39 PM
Maybe it's good enough for you, but not for me, Nav, Lynx and countless others.  When this movie comes out,

I'd like you to go see it.
{SPLORF!}

An "angel" named 'Valiant Thor' from Venus lands 14 miles south of the Pentagon in March of 1957 and spends three years working at the Pentagon (because the "Galactic Counsel" was worried about our nuclear weapons), before flying back home to Venus? And the Venusians just so happen to look like your average everyday human, despite living inside an inhospitably hot and acidic planet with no means of industry nor agriculture? Really?

And their spaceship (of which there are no pictures, strange, that) just so happened to be described to look like the prototypical movie spaceship of the time?

And the aliens just so happened to look like the prototypical Caucasian Super-Aryan which was fashionable for alien lore of that era? His name was even Nordic... Thor. LOL

You really unquestioningly believe this sort of junk?

The movie looks like low-budget schlock with an unbelievable story line... just like the book. Did not one of you consider that people tend to make up stories so gullible folks will fork over their cash? :-[

And that has nothing whatsoever to do with the popular 1954 movie Stranger From Venus and the 1951 movie The Day The Earth Stood Still, right? :rofl:

Are you gullible enough to believe that there is life on Venus, as they believed could be possible in 1957? We now know that Venus has a surface temperature of ~864 F, hot enough to melt lead, and because it has only a slight tilt of its axis, that temperature only has slight variation from equator to pole. It also has a weak magnetosphere, so cosmic rays are not attenuated.

Are you gullible enough to believe that this Valiant Thor had the secret to living without sickness, disease and poverty, but our government didn't want the information, so rather than telling someone else, this Valiant Thor character just let it drop?

Are you gullible enough to believe Frank Stranges' claim that the Venusians were created on Venus by God before Adam and Eve were created on Earth, but they never fell from grace, so they're superior to humans?

Are you gullible enough to believe Frank Stranges' claim that this Valiant Thor character could dematerialize and rematerialize anywhere instantaneously? If he could do that, why did they need a spaceship?

Are you gullible enough to believe Frank Stranges' claim that Valiant Thor could walk through walls?

Are you gullible enough to believe Frank Stranges' claim that Valiant Thor had an IQ of 1200 and two hearts?

Are you gullible enough to believe Frank Stranges' claim that the Earth is hollow and contains many civilizations, several from outer space?

Are you gullible enough to believe Phillip Schneider's claims that Val Thor is 6 feet tall... and 8 feet tall? And has 6 fingers on each hand? And one giant lung? And copper oxide blood like an octopus? And he never aged?

Are you gullible enough to believe Frank Stranges, who got caught in a couple lies (he claimed he worked for the FBI, he didn't; the 3 pictures (taken and manipulated by August 'Augie' Roberts) he claims are Valiant Thor are actually Frank Stranges himself, Jessie Womble and Otto Schneider (Phillip Schneider's father)).

Now some of these crackpots are claiming Obama is Valiant Thor! Unbelievable. The 6 foot tall, 8 foot tall, blonde haired, black haired, white, black, two-hearted, six-fingered, one-lunged, octopus-blood Venusian. LOL

If you believe this story, you're buying into a whole lot of pseudoscience crackpottery, including hollow earth. This is not a science-fiction forum. Stop wasting everyone's time.

If you don't believe in something (ie: if you follow Descartes hyperbolic doubt wherein you believe that all theories must be doubted, and since all beliefs are equally doubted, all beliefs are equally valid), then you're liable to fall for anything.

Try the scientific method. It works.
Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #97,  »Last edited by Cycle
Quote from nav on July 21st, 2018, 04:36 PM
Here's a question:
Two men are in separate spacecraft, Fred is sat near a huge gravitational force in his ship and his clock is running at half the speed of Jim who sits out of reach of the gravitational force in his ship. To both men, their respective clock seems normal because time is relative to each of them but Jim in real terms is aging twice as fast as Fred. They decide to do an experiment by firing lasers at a target exactly half way between the two of them. Slight problem, if Jim's clock in real terms is moving at twice the rate of Fred's clock then surely the speed of light of both lasers won't be the same. Although the speed of light seems normal for both men, one laser beam will surely hit the target before the other? Very confusing isn't it?
Define "half way between the two of them", Nav. If you're using a geodesic metric to place your target, then both beams will indeed meet at the target at the exact same time because the curvature of space-time by the gravity well is taken into account (or didn't you know that the curvature of space-time by gravity is a distortion of how we measure distance and duration?). If you're using a Cartesian metric, then they won't. Your confusion lies in the fact that you refuse to do any mathematics.

You're attempting to apply a Cartesian coordinate system to a geodesic surface, and thus your measurements are off, leading you to an incorrect conclusion.

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity addresses this.

Thus the speed of light can only be deemed to be variable if you use an incorrect coordinate system. The correct mathematical formalism always gives the correct result.

I encourage you to do the math which proves this, Nav, if you're able.

Something to blow your mind... the orbit of Earth around the sun is curved in space, but in space-time, it is straight (barring any external influences (other than gravity) which cause course deviations, of course). The planet is in a straight-line free-fall around the sun under the correct (geodesic) coordinate system.

Matt Watts

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #98,  »Last edited
Quote from Cycle on July 21st, 2018, 08:46 PM
My "box" is reality and the scientific method. Feel free to unhinge yourself from reality at your own risk.
...

Try the scientific method. It works.
Roger that Cycle.  If in 50 years from now you happen to change your mind, it's okay, we won't hold it against you.  Different strokes for different folks.


So Lynx, what was the question again?  Travelling to the stars in no time at all?

I think Cycle has made it clear, even if you became a photon, you'd still be limited to covering distance at 300,000 kilometers per second and since the stars are so far away, you'll be dead long before you get there.  Case closed.

Oh and by the way, Tesla's LMD waves don't actually penetrate a Faraday Cage.  That was just an measurement artifact due to a poorly constructed test apparatus.  If Cycle redid the test properly, all would see clearly no electromagnetic radiation escapes.


You know, sometimes I forget why I joined this forum.  It seems all the really good stuff has already been solved.  The scientific method gave us the answers.  Let's deal with it since there is really very little left to learn about our little world, our prison planet.  We don't need any instincts, creativity or imagination, science is the bomb.  Let's just spin our wheels in circles until we blow ourselves up.  There's nothing else out there and if there is, it's way too far away to worry about.  Eat, sleep, work, sh1t, shower, shave, pay taxes and die.  I'm all in.  What's not to like about this world.  It's scientifically perfect.  Ah man, got to love it, while you cry yourself to sleep.......zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ    :offtobed:

And dream about reality.  Hopefully my heart stops in the process.

nav

Re: Abstract workshop challenge: Travel to the stars in no time at all
« Reply #99,  »
Quote from Cycle on July 21st, 2018, 09:22 PM
Define "half way between the two of them", Nav. If you're using a geodesic metric to place your target, then both beams will indeed meet at the target at the exact same time because the curvature of space-time by the gravity well is taken into account (or didn't you know that the curvature of space-time by gravity is a distortion of how we measure distance and duration?). If you're using a Cartesian metric, then they won't. Your confusion lies in the fact that you refuse to do any mathematics.

You're attempting to apply a Cartesian coordinate system to a geodesic surface, and thus your measurements are off, leading you to an incorrect conclusion.

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity addresses this.

Thus the speed of light can only be deemed to be variable if you use an incorrect coordinate system. The correct mathematical formalism always gives the correct result.

I encourage you to do the math which proves this, Nav, if you're able.

Something to blow your mind... the orbit of Earth around the sun is curved in space, but in space-time, it is straight (barring any external influences (other than gravity) which cause course deviations, of course). The planet is in a straight-line free-fall around the sun under the correct (geodesic) coordinate system.
By half way I mean each craft is the same distance from the detector relatively speaking. Jim measures the distance and gets the same measurement as what Fred does.
I see your logic actually but I have another question and i'm not really good with maths. Both men measure the speed of light to be the Universal constant but what happens when Fred observes Jim's laser which is visible as red light and Jim observes Fred's laser?
Fred's clock is running at half the speed of Jim's and if Jim looks through a telescope at Fred will he see the clock running slower, if he see's the clock running slower will he see Fred's laser running slower?