#### sonnet

So that was a pipe open to the atm...
now a looped pipe flow return works different. i.e. a circuit....
Your pressure drops....unless we put our looped pipework into the lake....i.e.submerged in the lake.
by doing this we sort of have a electrical circuit....if you start believing some of my explanations.....
This scenario will take a post on its own and takes a lot of effort to describe just as this journey has taken 8 videos to just start getting it out to people about 'Does energy consume the load'
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so your saying that there IS more energy in the system at the point of the transient and it STAYS in the circuit???
If you followed my water explanation, you see in a open system No! no more energy is in your circuit...Just like no more water is in the pipe...some entered some left...it balanced
In a closed system you loose that energy....
In a open / closed system like with a spark gap (the circuit current leaves the closed system and for a brief instance of time is running through the air in a open system (how long the time is depends on the Voltage. i.e. how far the spark can jump)and also if the system is in the lake submerged in the energy so to speak).
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if it can be captured..
Yes to above but with caveats i.e, if you put a resistance to the energy getting into the system then the energy  is lost...energy will flow back into the system through the path of least resistance, only while the door is open to the open system..i.e. whilst the spark gap is open, but not necessarily enter at the location of the spark. but I'm open to change my views on this.
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and you're saying that this does not follow some energy conservation law within the circuit as in a an isolated system???

if thats true. i should not see a spike in a vacuum??? ( or at lease less? if there are less free electrons? )
charge as far as I understand moves in a vacuum russ
'People say yes, and give a wonderful example of vacuum tubes, CRTs. But can we really say that vacuum (..as in space) is a good conductor of electricity in a very basic sense?'
'The conductivity of the vacuum is not a very trivial issue. In fact, depending on how you look at it, it behaves in two different ways.

Firstly, there is no retarding force on any charged particle with constant velocity in vacuum. To this extent, no extra work is required in maintaining a constant current through any surface in vacuum.

In stark contrast however, is the presence of free charges in conductors. Normally, when an electric field E is applied across a conductor, we get a current density due to the 'internal' charge flow, given by:
J=σE
where σ is the conductivity. Clearly, σ=0 in a vacuum - electric fields do not spontaneously cause currents to flow. Thus, in this sense, the vacuum is not a conductor at all. Even everyday insulators have low but non-zero values of σ.

Thus, the resistance of the vacuum is in fact, infinite, as long as we define resistance in terms of the response of the charge carriers of a material. In this sense, we might say that it is an insulator - there are no charge carriers.'
'No, in the very basic sense it is not a good conductor, because very high voltages are required to shoot them through. But yes it still is a conductor, because it allows the flow of current.

Compare this to a diode, which similarly only allows current (in the same very basic sense) to flow if a certain voltage is applied.

Such non linear behaviour exceeds anything one would describe as basic, but if the basic sense of a conductor is that it allows current to flow, then it is a conductor indeed.'
So if you do try this pls make sure the surface of the vacuum chamber is conductive and not glass.
and a magnetic field is present to give the electron moment in a direction and hold a path through the vacuum the electron will be trapped within.and the potential tested at different levels @ least equal to the distance of the inner measurement of the length or diameter of the vacuum chamber minus the magnetic field length. That is length equal to voltage thru air resistance.
Regards

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so i have to ask, if plasma is where the energy is " lost" then that is a 180 from my thinking. where the plasma is where the energy gets in..

why? because in a plasma "electrons" are accelerated and there for more can be drawn in to the system to generate some effect ( i don know yet what that is)  etc.  dont forget a plasma has a lot less resistance that a wire... there for a plasma is a negative resistance.
The spark gap ...would it be hot enough for plasma??? plasma never enter my mind, but i'll chew that for a while...In the mean time I saw a vid...think you have it in you collections...A candle between to charged plates...The heat enables Ions to flow across across from one side to the other and the distance was widen further than a normal spark could flow when the air is hot...even working over a greater distance once the flame goes out...

plasma exists...need more enlightenment.is this our vortex of energy in and heat out?? I say it happens because of the spark...we are now thinking it transfers at the spark. And as the plasma has a magnetic field the electrons have a flow and are held within the field to enable quantised energy transfers to be more frequent as non-localised electrons don't wonder off because the field keeps them...love it. Long way to prove it...lol.

#### ~Russ

Quote from sonnet on October 27th, 2017, 05:41 PM
@Russ Reply #13The spark gap ...would it be hot enough for plasma??? plasma never enter my mind, but i'll chew that for a while...In the mean time I saw a vid...think you have it in you collections...A candle between to charged plates...The heat enables Ions to flow across across from one side to the other and the distance was widen further than a normal spark could flow when the air is hot...even working over a greater distance once the flame goes out...
plasma exists...need more enlightenment.is this our vortex of energy in and heat out?? I say it happens because of the spark...we are now thinking it transfers at the spark.
yes i have seen this.

so plasma, a negative resistance... ( in air its a huge resistance, but once the plasma channel is formed... its extremely low, and the bigger the channel the more it can flow. so it is indeed a negative resistance. more current =lower resistance.)

so have asked before the question of... why dose an electrical short under high power potential ( such as in a power station) generate so much destruction. its like TNT going off...

the question is... is all that power coming from the system or drawn in to the arc???

as Tesla said.
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Nikola Tesla

“The condenser is the most wonderful instrument, as I have stated in my writings, because it enables us to attain greater activities than are practical with explosives. There is no limit to the energy which you can develop with a condenser. There is a limit to the energy which you can develop with an explosive.”

Tesla -  “....I recognized that it was of tremendous advantage to break at the peak of the wave…”

Counsel -  Whenever you say "the break", you mean "a spark gap"? Tesla - Yes; otherwise I use the term "circuit controller," preferably.

Tesla - “...I would take energy out of a circuit at rates of hundreds or thousands of horsepower. In Colorado, I reached 18 million horsepower activities, but that was always by this device: Energy stored in the condenser and discharged in an inconceivably small interval of time. You could not produce that activity with an undamped wave. The damped wave is of advantage because it gives you, with a generator of 1 kilowatt, an activity of 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, or 5,000 kilowatts; whereas, if you have a continuous or undamped wave, 1 kilowatt gives you only wave energy at the rate of 1 kilowatt and nothing more. That is the reason why the system with a quenched gap has become popular. I have refined this so that I have been able to take energy out of engines by drawing on their momentum. For instance, if the engine is of 200 horsepower, I take the energy out for a minute interval of time, at a rate of 5,000 or 6,000 horsepower, then I store [it] in a condenser and discharge the same at the rate of several millions of horsepower. That is how these wonderful effects are produced.”
i'm under the impression that energy CAN get in to the system with a spark gap.

also interesting is that if i have a spark gap, i can generate a lot of amounts of heat. however with a short across the same system its just resistance...  such as this experiment:

shorted... no worries, it dose not blow up, but let it arc and it gets HOT!!!!! AND once it gets hot it conducts BETTER!

~Russ

#### sonnet

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i'm under the impression that energy CAN get in to the system with a spark gap.
me too russ me too...
We need to keep the arc open and running for as long as possible is our answer to test this, that's how i see the direction we might go....all things considered...
very excited...wont sleep now....
Cooling the spark is good, think if our power source is capacitors we will need variable cap to adjust the system impedance and keep plasma going...just wished I had you electronics knowledge right now...keep up the good work.
breaking is good at the peak of the wave to disable the plasma run...not if we want it to run and run

#### talisman

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yes i have seen this.

so plasma, a negative resistance... ( in air its a huge resistance, but once the plasma channel is formed... its extremely low, and the bigger the channel the more it can flow. so it is indeed a negative resistance. more current =lower resistance.)

so have asked before the question of... why dose an electrical short under high power potential ( such as in a power station) generate so much destruction. its like TNT going off...
The most basic explanation given to me is about the large scale electrical short mainly giving off due to air plasma shock wave if you refer to transformers in a storm etc., there is also the possibility of a LENR like reaction, what is most documented is that there are many forms of rays; light and heat energy released.

Shorting with the eddy heat effect is mostly explained by capacity of material used, with  less capacity than stable resulting in heat energy by transfer.

So perfect balance capacity is stability with no rise or drop in temperature.

my first (very small) capacitor in a circuit blew up quick and ....... with dramatic

does tesla refer to the time interval in the context?