Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"

~Russ

Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
«  »
 I was just thinking. But havent time to go read the papers again.

Stan often mentions this "electron bounce phenomenon"

Is this the "electrical cavataion" I have been thinking about.

Or somthing else.

If it is. Then it makes sence to the other ideas discussed in the "disruptive discharge" thred.

If it's not. Then it's...  Well not. Lol

~Russ

haxar

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #1,  »Last edited
It is a phenomenon.

It is undefined, by current literature.

Data is required to describe *it*, the phenomenon.

~Russ

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #2,  »
Quote from haxar on October 7th, 2017, 11:04 AM
It is a phenomenon.

It is undefined, by current literature.

Data is required to describe *it*, the phenomenon.
Stan describes it. That's what I'm saying. Dose he describe it.

I have to re read what Stan said  ezcatly .

~Russ

haxar

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #3,  »
Here's this gem from Memo 427:
Quote
Resonant Charging Chokes ... Thereby, preventing coil-ringing during each pulse off-time ... allowing Electron Bounce Phenomenon (EbP) to occur without amp influxing within VIC Matrix Circuit (690) of Figure (7-8) as so governed by Circuit Resistance Equations (Eq. 9) which, in activated electrical-state, allows positive Voltage Pulse-Wave (583) to be duplicated in succession to form Voltage Pulse Train (66 - 583a xxx 583n), as illustrated in (770) of Figure (8-1). Opposite negative Voltage Pulse Train (67 - 602a xxx 602n) is similarly formed since "Electron Clustering Effect" (631) of Figure (7-9) produces a "Negative Electrical Voltage Intensity (67) in equal magnitude to the "Positive Electrical Voltage Intensity (66) during each/repetitious magnetic pulsecycle (Rp/71). Remember, Secondary Voltage pickup coil (52) of Figure (7-8) displaces and separates Resonant Charging Chokes (56/62) on opposite end of said Secondary Pickup Coil (52).
I'm sure that only happens with the diode on, with your research, which may describe it.

~Russ

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #4,  »
With out amp influxing

So not alowing amps to rush in

Governd by resistance

Positive voltage pulse wave.

 "Electron Clustering Effect" aka charge on both plates. The reverse of a capacitor.

I think he talked more about the "electron bounce phenomenon" else where  as well.

Thanks for the post haxar. I'm only on my phone.

~Russ
Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #5,  »Last edited
I think I need a bigger chunck of that it starts to soon

". Resonant Charging Chokes ... Thereby, preventing coil-ringin... "

What about the chokes

I'll have to dig in to it later. At least it's noted.

haxar

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #6,  »Last edited
Yep, I can't copy the page off the phone.

"Amp influx inhibit" is also known as "electron bounce phenomenon."

Only happens during pulsing.
Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #7,  »Last edited
The full paragraph:
Quote
Electrical Voltage-Pulse Wave-Transmission (583a xxx 583n), now formed, occurs along Electrical Conductance Zone (587) since applied Electrical Pulse Voltage amplitude (Vo – 64a – 64b – 64c – Vn) is time responsive (T1/T2a – T3 – T1/T2n) to incoming gated Voltage Pulse Frequency (49a xxx – 1’3 – xxx 49n). Each Voltage Pulse duration time-period (T1 on time) from start to finish is directly related to applied Voltage-Pulse Amplitude (Vo xxx Vn) and reoccurring Voltage Pulse Frequency (49a xxx 49n) forming “Unipolar Voltage Pulse-Wave” (583) from zero voltage ground state (Vo) to a predetermined Voltage Level ( xxx 64 x – 64y – 64z – Vn) on the leading edge of the Voltage Pulse-Wave (Vpa) and, then, reversing voltage up swing to drop on the trailing edge (Vpb), completing Voltage-wave (583). The newly established leading voltage edge (Vpa) and trailing voltage edge (Vpb) being uniform in shape/configuration since both Resonant Charging Chokes (56/Z2 – 62/Z3) resistive values are the same (Typically 11.6 k each) and incoming signal (49a xxx 49n) is electrically linked with Water-Gap Capacitor (Cp) of Figure (7-8) having dielectric liquid of Water (85) there between … Thereby, preventing coil-ringing during each pulse off-time … allowing Electron Bounce Phenomenon (EbP) to occur without amp influxing within VIC Matrix Circuit (690) of Figure (7-8) as so governed by Circuit Resistance Equations (Eq. 9) which, in activated electrical-state, allows positive Voltage Pulse-Wave (583) to be duplicated in succession to form Voltage Pulse Train (66 – 583a xxx 583n), as illustrated in (770) of Figure (8-1). Opposite negative Voltage Pulse Train (67 – 602a xxx 602n) is similarly formed since “Electron Clustering Effect” (631) of Figure (7-9) produces a “Negative Electrical Voltage Intensity (67) in equal magnitude to the “Positive Electrical Voltage Intensity (66) during :=ach/repetitious magnetic pulsecycle (Rp/71). Remember, Secondary Voltage pickup coil (52) of Figure (7-8) displaces and separates Resonant Charging Chokes (56/62) on opposite end of said Secondary Pickup Coil (52).
The paragraph missed a mention of the diode.

Further down...
Quote
Blocking Diode (618) functions as an “Electrical Isolator” that prevents electrical discharge of Dual Secondary Coil (616A / B) during applied Pulsing Operations (49a xxx 49n).
"Electron Bounce Phenomenon" only happens during pulsing, especially at the pulse off-time.

Then the diode should be included in the phenomenon, if it's not just the coils and water capacitor contributing to the phenomenon.

warj1990

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #9,  »
I know this is an old post, but I have just read over this section and wanted to state what I think Meyer is talking about.  If this has already been solved then please share.

A normal transformer you will have a primary and a secondary.  So 10 volts in and just say 100 volts out.
If your load (water) was 1 ohm and you didn’t want 100 amps you needed to add a resistor to the circuit.
This resistor now has voltage drop with “electron clustering” at the resistor.

Stanley decided to use resistive wire to allow XXX voltage directly placed on the water with no voltage drop.  The resistance is each foot of the wire, but each foot also creates the voltage source…

The magnetic field created voltage (as a normal transformer), but with resistive SS Wire these electrons could not “move” and produce current flow.

I think he explains…create a transformer that has a high resistance to current flow. During the magnetic field the electron alignment will produce a high voltage potential and limit current flow. (due to resistance).
This resistance no longer being external to the transformer….so no voltage drop.

The Electron Bounce Phenomenon (EbP) is the magnetic field cutting the wires, releasing electrons...but they "bounce" back into place

The EbP could be very clear with an open circuit on the secondary of the transformer. 
In this case you would have 100 volts created by the magnetic field and flux lines... but no where to go on open circuit.
Once the field is gone you don't have 100 volts on the secondary anymore...due to EbP


I personally believe Stainless Steel wire was used because of heat issues in the wire. 

W.

haxar

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #10,  »Last edited
Quote from warj1990 on February 20th, 12:59 PM
I personally believe Stainless Steel wire was used because of heat issues in the wire.
Stainless steel 430FR coated wire was shown to have more resistance per foot, hence "resistive wire," than copper wire, displacing copper by about 40 times, making the wire efficient for magnetic applications. I've not confirmed this displacement figure yet and will need to place an order for the wire once I obtain funding.

If you wound a secondary plus chokes with a total of 100 pounds of copper wire, for example, you would only need 2.5 pounds of stainless steel 430FR wire, to have the same magnetic field strength at the same resistance and at the same bare diameter.
Quote from warj1990 on February 20th, 12:59 PM
I think he explains…create a transformer that has a high resistance to current flow.
Stan mentions in a video that to increase the gas output, is to add more turns to the secondary. This wire would make it easier to obtain those results.
Quote from warj1990 on February 20th, 12:59 PM
During the magnetic field the electron alignment will produce a high voltage potential and limit current flow. (due to resistance).
This resistance no longer being external to the transformer….so no voltage drop.
You'll need a ferromagnetic core to generate the magnetic field and keep it there, at the resonant-peak frequency via a feedback mechanism (VIC's phase lock loop circuit or a simpler joule thief feedback circuit). Once the cell is connected to the VIC output, the resonant-peak frequency of the core should shift a bit, and the feedback mechanism would compensate.

warj1990

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #11,  »
Ebay has "nichrome," "kanthal" and "316 SS - non resistive" wire.... no 430 found.

How do we successfully coat them? ... as all are not insulated.

I think this goes a little beyond a can of varnish repair and spraying the wire in your back yard for successful results.

P.S.  What is the cost of the 430 insulated for about 500 ft? 

W.

haxar


patrick1

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #13,  »
just use nicrome, some heatshrink, and oil dipped traffo..... and a fuse ;-D

Matt Watts

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #14,  »Last edited
My feeling is the word "bounce" refers to reflection.  And the master of such phenomena documented it quite well back in 1959:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DovunOxlY1k

The trick to all this is coming up with the proper topology where the reflection aids the process.  Resonance is energy storage; what we want is energy transfer, which can clearly be had by proper impedance matching.

Lynx

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #15,  »
Why aren't there any modern clips around, which, just like this 1959 tutorial, explains in great detail how stuff works?
This is a real gem, many thanks for sharing Matt :thumbsup:

Matt Watts

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #16,  »
Quote from Lynx on February 21st, 09:56 AM
Why aren't there any modern clips around, which, just like this 1959 tutorial, explains in great detail how stuff works?
I think the average IQ has dropped so low it would be a very rare thing to find even an engineer that could whip out a documentary like John Shive's.  I'm sure he did this in an evening after a hard days work.  Now days it would take someone a month to match it, if they even could.
Quote from Lynx on February 21st, 09:56 AM
This is a real gem, many thanks for sharing Matt :thumbsup:
Yeap, you're welcome Lynx.  I downloaded this video years ago and go back to it quite often as reference.

I've been focused on transmission lines for some time now.  Particularly ones that are close looped.  A very interesting kind of close looped transmission line is one that resembles a mobius strip.  if you think of the strip as being the dielectric between a pair of conductors with a wave travelling down and around this ring, it becomes rather obvious this is not your normal transmission line.  You can intentionally create dynamic impedance mismatches along the circumference of this ring and get reflections along with super-position.  The waves that can form become very complex, but the interesting part of it is that for each 360 degree revolution, the polarity of the wave will flip.  It's my feeling these waves can be manipulated in a different kind of resonance--instead of back-n-forth, they go round and round.  In doing this, I have a feeling energy can be extracted without lessening the energy stored in the dielectric.  Still can't prove this theory, it's just a hunch.
Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #17,  »Last edited
Here's another interesting condition, especially if we talk about open-systems.

haxar

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #19,  »
Quote from Matt Watts on February 21st, 05:12 PM
Here's another interesting condition, especially if we talk about open-systems.
A transmission line is always an inductor.

If one is shorter than the other, there's lesser inductance, and vice versa.

When doing high frequency measurements, you would want the oscilloscope probe on the shortest path.

Matt Watts

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #20,  »
I want to know what the wave does when it hits the short end and if it disperses, where does the wave go?  I also want to know how the reflection is distorted by this asymmetric termination.

warj1990

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #21,  »
So I at least have a quote on 32 AWG 430 FR wire at $1.21 a foot.... Triple coating with Pyre-ML (4800 volt rating)

Before investing $2000 into this wire (saving up for it)... has anyone tested this wire yet?  Is this accurate for size, length (2 spools at 1000ft) etc... for an accurate build spec?

Just saying I don't want to buy this and in two weeks find out it should have been 30 awg, or end up 30 ft shy of a good build.

Lots of testing and research before going directly into "Resistive" wire.

W.

patrick1

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #22,  »
QUOTE : , that i like,

Stanley decided to use resistive wire to allow XXX voltage directly placed on the water with no voltage drop.  The resistance is each foot of the wire, but each foot also creates the voltage source…

warj1990,  i am having wire issues all over the shop too, - though this is my biggest prob...  how too insulate your own wire, -   because i cant find iron or stainless wire, pre treated.   ..    im really about too bite the bullet and buy 30ft of heatshrink,. 

chuff1

Re: Thoughts about "electron bounce phenomenon"
« Reply #23,  »
what i did with my ss wire was to stretch it across a long room and coated it with liquid electrical
tape.