back emf via relais to stepup tranformer

Matt Watts

Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #25,  »
Quote from evostars on June 28th, 2017, 09:37 AM
hmm maybe. I dont know.
if nothing is connected to the switch, there still is the pulse from the relais coil bemf as the igbt turns it of.
I'm seeing similar artifacts with my setup when I turn the power supply off--there are still spikes on the scope with no input power, just the IGBTs opening and closing.  This has to mean there are dielectric fields present that are being messed with; these fields continually try to equalize themselves.  With no current present, they don't do much, but they are certainly registering on the scope.  Open circuit systems like these are just a bit difficult to explain away as noise.  As you can see in my first scopeshot above, there are moments when both switches are open.  During that time, something is finding its way into the coils and/or capacitors.

evostars

Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #26,  »
Nice work Matt! Good to see those scope shots.
How do you create that signal? I never understood how to create those alternating pulses, that are phase locked. That's so essential, for switching.

Would the collapsing field drag the ether in, due to its inertia? resulting in more in...

distancing the coils, is there a sweet spot? I found the radius of the center hole, to be the distance between to coils.

Another thing. those are speaker wire coils. side by side, isnt it? 
To pulse them correct for resonance effects. You now are only pulsing one winding.

make 2 more coils, but as in the tesla patent. and place them above and below. Then both windings of the center speaker wire coil are pulsed. This results in a lower resonant frequency.

If the speaker coil is only loaded on one side, the "open" other side is mismatched.
The coils influence eachothers capacitance and inductance. by being nearby. Therefor you need both sides with a speaker wire coil.

Simplest would be using the tesla patent design coil, as the windings are always influenced equally.

Maybe thats why Nelson used the black ferrite on the side of the coil. To correct this anomaly in the exiter coil.
Matt's Universal switch info
« Reply #27,  »
Matt I collected the universal switch info and put them here, hope thats fine with you.
On page 3 of the universal switch:
page 3

are the schematics and all.
schematic 1.5

pcb

instruction video



Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #28,  »
Matt If you are able try playing with the duty cycle. charge time higher then the fire time.
Less ringing(time), is more pulse energy(higher voltage)
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #29,  »Last edited
Also, negative ground to the capacitor is only needed at  capacitor charge.
when the capacitor fires, I would suggest disconnecting from earth. So the capacitor dielectrcic field energy is completely fired into the coil. If no earth is there it will start ringing, but avoid that by using a small fire time.

the result of this, is the energy in the coil, cant flow to earth, but will couple to the resonant coil.
I do believe, to collect external energy, we need it to flow into somewhere. I would sugges fast rectifier diodes, and large storage caps. So the energy can flow into the caps. once they are full the process stops. So they need to be drained by a load, to keep the energy flowing

Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #30,  »
what capacitor would work best?
It should charge fast. So a low ESR probably.
The energy should be enough to maybe saturate the dielectric field of the coil?
 And as said before if the capacitor discharges to much energy via the relais, the relais would heatup and malfunction.
But its only a test...

the universal switch would be superb if it was a double switch! or even 4 :D

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bemf open dielectric field lines. torque
« Reply #31,  »Last edited
I fail to see how the collapsing magnetic field can generate such high voltage short duration spikes.
If the magnetic field is an ether vortex, then Where is the inertia of the ether vortex?
The test I did was with a transformer, where the magnetic fields where confined in the iron.
would the vortex, be opened up when the current stops. instead of circling in closed loops, the loop is opened up instantly tranforming in a dielectric field? with All the energy of the field instantly transforming into a dielectric field? And this dielectric open field lines, are then instantly terminated on the coil windings again? and the secondary has more windings, so more coil area for the dielectric energy to be captured and transformed into voltage?

If so the magnetic field collapse in a air coil isnt confined to the iron core, but surrounds the coil. when the (vortex) closed loop field lines open up, and transform into a dielectric OPEN field lines, the lines quickly try to end on a conductor (hence the spark when opening a current line).

In the process where the dielectric open field lines, close on a conductor, more energy can be captured in, due to the circlular vortex motion inertia of the previous magnetic field vortex.
 the spin drawing in the energy.

So, when a magnetic field is "opened" we have non terminated dielectric field lines? that are able to draw in more energy due to the inertia of the still rotating ether?

Is the open dielectric field line, torqued, and when it reconnects to a conductor, it induces a voltage, because it looses its torque? It unwinds?

If that is so, we should use Diodes to keep the dielectric field torque strong, and separate the dielectric field lines into a capacitor, where the torque of the field lines stays vital. To be used, when we need it...

Is that what happens in a capacitor? the dielectric field, is actualy a torqued field line. not a straigh line, but twisted up. And the rotational direction is the plus or minus?
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #32,  »
I should use a diode on the relais coil when playing with the capacitor, so there is only b mmf from the cap, and no b emf from the relais coil.
and I should try differnt caps. also in combination with a bifilar coil, and not a unifilar coil of a transformer.
probe at the bridge of the coil windings. maybe, even place a capacitor there, inbetween the windings
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #33,  »
I could also step up the voltage of the bemf with a bifilar coil by using 3 stacked coils
the center one is creating the bemf,
while the top and bottom coils collect.
these coils can be in series so they have double the windings of the primary.
this way the voltage of the bemf should be doubled.

then rectified into some caps and into my 12v battery. that same battery can be used to power the igbt that makes the bemf.
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #34,  »Last edited
now i think of it, this is what i have been doing all along. accept now with the relais both ends of the coil is disconnected.
maybe i should buy a second igbt driver.
64 gbp isnt that bad.

http://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/pulse-modulator-ocxi

errr no... its always connected to the positive voltage.

Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #35,  »
i now hooked up my cd sleeve tesla bifilar coil to the relais. dc power 1.25V
100hz 97% duty cycle

the top and bottom coils of the collector are series connected. one side to ground one side to the probe.

the spikes now show both polarities at the same time...? eh... what?
is that because the exiter coil is in the middle and both sides are collected, with one side being opposite polarity ?

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Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #36,  »
and what are those second pulses doing there?
i tried a diode over the relais to prevent the bemf, end it does change the position of the second pulse bit they are still there...

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back mmf into bifilar
« Reply #37,  »
I now did a test with the relais and the capacitor.
pulsed at 180hz 90% duty
I used a 1uF cap and 16Vdc power the amps were so low it said zero.
more voltage into the cap would be nice.
but it worked.

the discharge during the 10% off was directed in to a bifilar pancake coil. this exiter coil was the middle coil of 3 stacked coils.
the above and below coils (also bifilarpancake coils) were series connected and probed.

this time there was not a single pulse. but the voltage did rise offscale into the hundreds of volts.

when i zoomed into the signal a lot of ... noise was seen.
maybe I should use a smaller or bigger cap.

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Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #38,  »
and i tried using a diode on the inductor of the relais but this time it prevented the relais from working. dont know why.
maybe it messed with the internal diode of the igbt?
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #39,  »
I should reconnect the stepup tranformer again and see how this will again fail to work because it hasnt got enough capacitance.
back mmf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #40,  »
I added a 100uf cap. now the amps show 0.01A on the power supply.
changed back to the step up transformer.

now it does work. but still its not a straight pulse signal but a bunch of random noise.
Also the signal again is going positive and negative.

Is this what is meant by unipolar? a spike going positive and negative at the same time?

ah wait. I did a quick other test. now the secondary is probed on one end and the other end is grounded.

now there first is unipplar noise. but then the spike comes back at one polarity. strange readings...

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Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #41,  »
the scope doesnt show all on the photos because the frequency is so low...
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #42,  »
I wonder... what  kind of capacitor would be able to withstand these beatings?
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #43,  »
also... the voltage is stepped up with the discharge so it the same with bmmf as it is with bemf. both can be stepped up.
some conclusions about bmmf and bemf
« Reply #44,  »
bemf from a coil needs current but only a low voltage.

bmmf from a capacitor needs voltage but only a low current.

both can be stepped up via a transformer.

bemf(coil) is a single clear spike with only one polarity

bmmf(cap) is a distorted time stretched spike, with both polarities present.

the leads from the discharging capacitor to the coil need to be short as possible (maybe looped).


I've got 2 of these dpdt relais.  could I pulse two bifilar coils, and collect into one center bifilar coil, by using two unifilar coils in series?
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #45,  »
and again things are reversed to what i expected
I expected a clear spike with the capacitors bmmf.
and a time stretched event from the bemf of the coil.

but its in reverse. the magnetic field collapse is instant. while the discharge of the dielectric field is time stretched...

WHY?
bmmf vs bemf
« Reply #46,  »
the only thing I can understand is the bemf is dielectric instant voltage.
a instant transmutation of all magnetic field energy into a dielectric voltage.

and the bmmf is magnetic inertia current.
a slow inert transmutation of a static dielectric field potential into a dynamic magnetic current.

So a discharge of a capacitor is slower than a discharge of a magnetised coil.

this I would not have expected.
Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #47,  »
maybe I should not connect both leads of the capacitor to the coil.

what if i hooked up 2 capacitors in series and connected the middle lead to ground.

this because the 2 plates are emptied at the same time, and this leads to a ether vacuum between the plates which makes the current  between both discharging plates.

with a central ground two plates can draw in ether energy from earth so no ether vacuum exists.

or... simply keep one cap lead grounded
strange bmmf properties
« Reply #48,  »
I played some more with the capacitor discharge into the stepup tranformer.

i wondered if i really couldnt get a straight single pulse. so I made a aingle wire shortcut of the primary. and measured it.
still a time stretched noise pulse on both polarities.
strange that on the secondary there still was the stepped up voltage pulse. less in voltage but more then on the primary.

I could also ground the positive side of the capacitor (when i grounded the negative the powersupply went into protection)

but in no way i could make a straight single polarity pulse as with the back emf of the coil.

I keep wondering why that is...

Matt Watts

Re: back emf via relais to stepup tranformer
« Reply #49,  »
Quote from evostars on June 30th, 2017, 10:56 AM
and again things are reversed to what i expected
I expected a clear spike with the capacitors bmmf.
and a time stretched event from the bemf of the coil.

but its in reverse. the magnetic field collapse is instant. while the discharge of the dielectric field is time stretched...

WHY?
Third field?  A longitudinal propagation through physical space?

Remember the discharge of a dielectric field results in the build-up of a magnetic field.  This takes time.  This is curl (magnetic) and has inertia.