"Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"

gpssonar

"Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« on October 22nd, 2016, 04:13 AM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 05:58 PM
The time has come to tell my story how Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works. October the 23th 2016

First! I want to have a disclaimer statement. I Ronnie Walker will not be responsible for anyone that uses this information in this thread to create any type of voltage and current either high or low of either of the two. You take full responsibility of your own actions and the use of any information that is discussed in this thread. "High Voltage and Current can KILL You" This thread, and the post in this thread made by me or others, is for information use only.

Second! It is assumed that anyone that uses this information has at least the basic knowledge of electronics, formulas and equations. Therefor I will not be held responsible for anyone that uses this information, and can not get a Fuel Cell to work.
In other words DON'T BLAME ME!

Thanks,
Ronnie Walker (gpssonar)


Let's get started! (October 23, 2016)

Several years back I made the discovery how Stan was able to produce gas on demand for the second time. Like everyone else I keep throwing voltage to the water hoping to see it just fall apart into Hydrogen and Oxygen with no luck at all.
Like everyone else, with very little production of the two gases. (Due to Amp Leakage)

I came across a drawing in Stan's Tech Brief that clearly shows their is amp leakage in the cell. (Which I will Post below)
Like everyone else, I thought the resonant reaction Stan talked about, was on the water itself.
When in fact the resonate action will only take place when the water is removed from within the cells.
Then an only then will the two choke coils come together and interact with one another.
As long as there is water between the cells, the two choke coils will not interact with each other which will stop any resonance to occur between the two due to the dead short. (Water)

Stan states, that you must overcome the dead short condition before resonance will occur and allow the voltage to take over and do the work.
This is were everyone including me took this statement way out of context.
It dose not mean applying a high voltage to the water and it will just go away.
It means removing the water within the cells, which is a dead short condition in order to over come it.

So the question is how do we remove the dead short condition so the coils can interact with one another?
The answer is Amp leakage within the cell.
So how do we create this Amp leakage in the cell?
The answer is with the L1 Choke Inductive Reactance and the Cell Capacitance Reactance.
When you design the choke and the cell it has to meet certain criteria.
When you subtract the two from one another you don't want the math to come out to zero.
What you want is a ohm value left over. That ohm value is what is going to cause the Amp leakage within the cell.
This is where you get into voltage leading the current or voltage lagging the current, depending on if the net value of ohms is capacitive or inductive.

So in other words as the voltage increases so does the amp leakage.
At a certain point of increased voltage the water will be remove from the cell and will be replace with gas.
This is where the resonate reaction will occur between the two chokes and the voltage will take off to infinity and the amps will drop to nearly nothing. (Voltage taking over and doing the work). Since all coils are adding one another.

In the drawing I have colored it showing the water in blue and gas in yellow.
As you can see there is amp leakage that causes the water to be removed and replaced with gas or gasses.
Once this is achieved and only when this is achieve is when you will see a resonate condition take place to make Stan Meyers Water Fuel Gas on Demand.







gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #3, on October 23rd, 2016, 01:01 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 01:19 PM
As you can see we don't want resonance to occur until the water is removed. In fact we are using the water itself to prevent it from occuring until the water is removed at the same time as the maximun applied voltage is reached.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #6, on October 23rd, 2016, 01:26 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 01:36 PM
Quote from X-Blade on October 23rd, 2016, 01:18 PM
Ronnie, and what happens in relationship to L2 before the Water being  "removed"?
The resistance in the coil of wire on the L2 choke is used as to restrict amps as well. It will not become part of aiding the voltage until resonance occurs. Only when the water is removed will the two choke interact with one another. As Stan states the water is part of the circuit, but once the water is removed you are left with the resistance of the wire used in the coils. The water itself and the amount of amp leakage gives you control to reach maxumim voltage before resonance occurs.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #8, on October 23rd, 2016, 01:38 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 02:02 PM
Quote from X-Blade on October 23rd, 2016, 01:35 PM
So, the coil behaves only resistive at this time? Or reactive to?
The L1 coke is inductive and the l2 is resistive until the water is removed then it becomes inductive and aids to the voltage when resonace occurs..

People talks about frequency doubling the wrong way. Frequency doubling will not and does not occur until the water is removed and resonance takes place.

Also step charging is taking out of context also. Step charging only occurs as the water is being removed. Once the water is removed and resonance takes place you want see step charging anymore. It's not something you will see that still stay's on your scope. All you will see on the scope is the two chokes interacting with one another and their resonate reaction with one another once resonance is achieved. You have to start the process over again in order to see step charging take place again, or lower and raise the voltage.

Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #10, on October 23rd, 2016, 02:13 PM »
Good stuff Ronnie.   :thumbsup:

So we are still after resonance, but only when the cell is empty of water.  In this condition, if things are tuned properly, we should be able to waive a fluorescent bulb near the cell and see the glow from the high voltage.  I would call that basically step one to ensure the VIC is actually working as it should.  One might want to connect a high voltage oscilloscope probe and verify, but really all that is needed is something to indicate there is a couple thousand volts per water cap (individual cell).

Step two, that you just went into is intentionally creating amp leakage, otherwise known as brute force electrolysis.  We need this to electrically separate the plates--make them a true capacitor by removing the dead short.  This is where all the bunk about coating the plates goes out the window.  The raw stainless is fine once we have gas between them and not all water.  And once we have gas, the voltage in there will prevent water from returning.  The voltage will jump and stay that way under the resonant conditions.  So here's my question about step two:  Is the amp leakage needed in proportion to the cell and/or plates?   Meaning, if the plates are large, more amp leakage is needed to create sufficient gas where the voltage can begin to rise.   But...   There is a limit, if we attempt to draw too many amps from those small gauge wires, it's game over.  So the VIC dictates the dimensions of the cell.   It would also seem the cell could be too small allowing the voltage in the VIC to climb too high, also another disaster when the wires begin to arc over.  So if you would Ronnie, can you confirm to us that there needs to be a pretty decent match between the cell and the VIC--get outside the boundaries and the VIC smokes.  Or...   Is the voltage produced by the VIC limited to the Q-factor of the resonant components--coils and water cap?

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #11, on October 23rd, 2016, 02:14 PM »
People has made the statement many times, There is no way Stan could be producing enough gas to run an engine.
The Fact is Stan doesn't have to produce a lot of gas to run a car or air plane, or rocket engine.
It's not done by producing a lot of gas.
It is done by exciting the gas to a higher voltage to make what gas he does make more powerful.
That's why it has to be diluted to equal the burn rate of gasoline or any other fuel source that is being used.

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #13, on October 23rd, 2016, 02:32 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 02:50 PM
Quote from Matt Watts on October 23rd, 2016, 02:13 PM
Good stuff Ronnie.   :thumbsup:

So we are still after resonance, but only when the cell is empty of water.  In this condition, if things are tuned properly, we should be able to waive a fluorescent bulb near the cell and see the glow from the high voltage.  I would call that basically step one to ensure the VIC is actually working as it should.  One might want to connect a high voltage oscilloscope probe and verify, but really all that is needed is something to indicate there is a couple thousand volts per water cap (individual cell).

Step two, that you just went into is intentionally creating amp leakage, otherwise known as brute force electrolysis.  We need this to electrically separate the plates--make them a true capacitor by removing the dead short.  This is where all the bunk about coating the plates goes out the window.  The raw stainless is fine once we have gas between them and not all water.  And once we have gas, the voltage in there will prevent water from returning.  The voltage will jump and stay that way under the resonant conditions.  So here's my question about step two:  Is the amp leakage needed in proportion to the cell and/or plates?   Meaning, if the plates are large, more amp leakage is needed to create sufficient gas where the voltage can begin to rise.   But...   There is a limit, if we attempt to draw too many amps from those small gauge wires, it's game over.  So the VIC dictates the dimensions of the cell.   It would also seem the cell could be too small allowing the voltage in the VIC to climb too high, also another disaster when the wires begin to arc over.  So if you would Ronnie, can you confirm to us that there needs to be a pretty decent match between the cell and the VIC--get outside the boundaries and the VIC smokes.  Or...   Is the voltage produced by the VIC limited to the Q-factor of the resonant components--coils and water cap?
Let me try and answer one question at a time.
Amp leakage needed is not due to surface area or the length of cells, It is due to the gap of the cell and the amount of water that needs to be removed and the voltage your are trying to achieve. You want the water to be removed at the same rate as voltage applied. in other words you don't want the water removed at 6 volts and resonance to occur when your wanting to apply 12 volt to the primary. The more high voltage you can apply to the gas the more excited it will be and will become a more powerful gas.It is something you have to control with math when designing the vic and cell.
The smaller the water gap, therefore it takes less amp leakage due to less water to be removed. As you see this in the water injector.

You are exactly right Matt, you can not draw more current than the wire you use will allow. This is where everyone needs to be careful, once resonance occurs the voltage will climb towards infinity even with the smallest amount of current in the secondary side, if knocked out of tune it will make toast out of your VIC in an instant. Unlike those, that allows people to set and turn knobs, You cannot allow anyone to tune anything once resonance is achieved.

And to answer your question about match between the Vic and Cell, yes it has to be a matched by design, you want all cells to have close to a perfect match as you can get. That way you have the same voltage across each cell, which will require the same Amp leakage to remove the water at the same time. You want the resonance to occur at the same time in each cell.

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #14, on October 23rd, 2016, 02:54 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 03:02 PM
Good stuff Ronnie. its funny , my conclusion before reading this was the short in the cell dose indeed keep the system from going in to that high resonance state.

so by removing the water it will go in to high resonance state. i have seen this in my own coil's and system. enough that lighting florescent bulbs is no problem at all.

and of coarse even adding a 1 meg ohm resistor over the cell is will short it out... enough to kill the resonance as it was with no resistor.

so that bring me to my current state of understanding,

We need to make gas to get the VIC to resonate. the gas is the key component to removing the " short" aka water.

the the next big step is, what method is devised start the process?

you can see in this video that they use "Brute-force" to start it then let the system find resonance.

so the question is how would you start the process... if we cant get it started it will never work as stated.

 we know / at least it seems that "thewaterenergy1" knows this same concept. this video is showing what you are describing. " use the gas"

THEWATERENERGY1

note use link below to view video


link

thanks for posting, lets keep sharing till we get everyone on the same page of understanding :)

~Russ



~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #15, on October 23rd, 2016, 03:04 PM »
and then understanding that mu running the same gas through a system such as the HGG will continue to make the gas " unstable" aka more reactive...

~Russ

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #16, on October 23rd, 2016, 03:28 PM »
What I see in that video, without know anything about his coil design. Is he has some leakage current within the cell at 30 volts applied. But it looks to me he has reached his limits before getting the cells flushed like most people is doing and not reaching the resonate action. I can tell this by him scanning the system at 30 volts. This reminds me of throwing voltage at it to make a good video. If I wanted to Russ I could show the same gas production with 3 or 4 volts to the primary because I have my choke and cell designed to do so. So when i reach around 11 volts i hit resonance and the cell really comes alive. Their isn't enough information in that video for me to make honest opinion about it. So it's best for me to not say anything about his work. All I can say is he has design issues still left to work out.

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #17, on October 23rd, 2016, 03:51 PM »
yeah, i was just saying that it seems like the same basic principle. but i could be wrong, its just the captions that seem like it is similar.

~Russ

gpssonar

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #18, on October 23rd, 2016, 03:57 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 04:30 PM
He is heading in the right direction, once he works out his deign issues he will be just fine. All I'm saying is I can do the same thing with 3 or 4 volts that he is doing with 30 volts. If everyone would work with a battery or power supply voltage of 12 volts only it would help them in the design process of everything. Maybe coming here will help him.

X-Blade

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #19, on October 23rd, 2016, 04:17 PM »
Russ Thewaterenergy1 IS NOT Meyer technology. You can ser in all of their comments he tried Meyer way but he was not able to put it to work, then he made it by his own idea with help of two physicists

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #20, on October 23rd, 2016, 06:10 PM »
ok, ok,

any way i was just implying that we still need to understand how to " jump" the system...

at least i can say i do not at the moment. any water added kills the resonance. so if we can make gas, we can get the resonance going again. that's what Ronnie is saying. 

and what i'm saying is i agree, but getting to work is the trick,

Ronnie, i believe there might be a use for the " tuning" of the secondary choke to get this balance right?

~Russ



Matt Watts

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #21, on October 23rd, 2016, 07:23 PM »
Quote from ~Russ on October 23rd, 2016, 06:10 PM
Ronnie, i believe there might be a use for the " tuning" of the secondary choke to get this balance right?
The negative choke.  The one with the wiper arm on it in the schematic.


Ronnie, kind of theoretical here, but suppose I had a high voltage setup that could easily maintain 20k volts across the cell.  If I charged a big fat capacitor and dumped that across the cell just long enough to clear the plates of water, do you suppose the high voltage present would allow the cell to keep producing gas or would the water jump back the moment I disconnected the big dump cap from the cell?   I don't even know if anyone has tried this or not, but that one video I posted on your other thread a while back...   If you listen very closely just before he does the countdown, you can hear clicks where I think the guy is doing just what I say--he's charging something then dumping it to get the reaction to start, then the voltage takes hold and continues the reaction.  My thought anyway.  No way to be sure without actually being there to see everything happening.

Enrg4life

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #22, on October 23rd, 2016, 07:28 PM »
Very nice explanation Ronnie, That make so much sense to me. A few years back i was doing a simple experiment with with a 480 to 120 volt control transformer wired backwards through a fullwave rectifier to a single electrode (carbide drill bit) in a metal can with water in it.when i started it up the brute force would draw 8 amps for about 3 seconds then drop to 1.6 amps.The gas took up the space that the water was occupying, hense dropping the amperage too, also the gas was igniting under water making a cool light show and alot of heat for only 1.6 amps for 120 volts. Thank Ronnie

Enrg4life

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #23, on October 23rd, 2016, 07:40 PM »Last edited on October 23rd, 2016, 08:01 PM by ~Russ
Quote from Matt Watts on October 23rd, 2016, 07:23 PM
The negative choke.  The one with the wiper arm on it in the schematic.


Ronnie, kind of theoretical here, but suppose I had a high voltage setup that could easily maintain 20k volts across the cell.  If I charged a big fat capacitor and dumped that across the cell just long enough to clear the plates of water, do you suppose the high voltage present would allow the cell to keep producing gas or would the water jump back the moment I disconnected the big dump cap from the cell?   I don't even know if anyone has tried this or not, but that one video I posted on your other thread a while back...   If you listen very closely just before he does the countdown, you can hear clicks where I think the guy is doing just what I say--he's charging something then dumping it to get the reaction to start, then the voltage takes hold and continues the reaction.  My thought anyway.  No way to be sure without actually being there to see everything happening.
My opinion is that might work but i think you might still have to get the gas going first with amps then unload the cap into it.

Im wondering if a 10,000 volt gas  boiler igniter transformer could do it.Without the igniter attached of course

~Russ

Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #24, on October 23rd, 2016, 08:06 PM »
Quote from Enrg4life on October 23rd, 2016, 07:40 PM
My opinion is that might work but i think you might still have to get the gas going first with amps then unload the cap into it.

Im wondering if a 10,000 volt gas  boiler igniter transformer could do it.Without the igniter attached of course
i think the key here is doing it with the VIC. its a tuning thing, a slight off balance of the choke/cell?

makes me thing the negative choke and the cell work together, and the sec and positive choke as far as restive / inductive values are in the VIC "network"

~Russ