The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work

~Russ

The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« on June 1st, 2016, 04:48 PM »Last edited on June 2nd, 2016, 10:31 AM
@all, This past global BEM conference i was asked to come up on stage with marko and help dissect this coil and setup. Here is a photo of the event:



Here is the list of videos  Marko has posted before and after the event.,

Play list:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsiIKXpZfLKLZDEdBtaDgYeKkVN-OiwT-

This is something that i have seen before, Danial has been doing stuff for years.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJyb9tnlcaw

But Danial is not an electrical engineer. He is self thought, we have worked in the same group years ago.  He has done enough to show that he has something interesting. Also, this video is one of Manny but the others are no longer listed on his you tube page.

So why am i posting this?

Well i was asked by Marko to replicate this, so I'm going to do it. Its really not hard to do. Only thing i need is the amp he was using a

And make a coil...

Here is some notes from chance, (user, your0nlychance) he was at the conference.


I'm encouraging, your0nlychance to join the fun as he already has some coils he can work with.

I will continue to add more here as i progress. i will add schematics and other things. for now watch marko's videos.

thoughts questions concerns ect,

~Russ

PeakPositive

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #1, on June 1st, 2016, 06:30 PM »
Hi Russ
It may be a good idea to see how many watts the Insignia amp is consuming ? The meters could be tricked by the fast frequency and show less then actual watts used.

Just something to think about...:)

Look forward to seeing you test this, best of luck.

Peak Positive

Matt Watts

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #2, on June 1st, 2016, 07:01 PM »Last edited on June 1st, 2016, 09:11 PM
Some notes; more to come as I analyze the videos further:

1.  Analog meters are probably not reading RMS, so their higher reading than the flukes and scope are pretty close.
2.  "Copper Core" to me indicates that all six strands of wire are all connected together for sure at each end and maybe all together at both ends.  I will try to look close to determine which.  Very easy to try it both ways to see which works best.
3.  007 mentions the wire diameter is 0.56mm.  With insulation that is probably 24 AWG.

Not certain as yet how the L1 and L2 windings are connected.  A circuit diagram from 007 will clear this up.

2000+ amps overall circulating within the toroid windings is very curious.  In effect all electron flow is additive contrary to what would be expected with series windings going in both directions.  My feeling is that positive and negative energy is being separated similar to positive and negative charge on a capacitor.

His modified PSU could be accomplished by having many input capacitors in series and only using one of two of them to drive the internals of the PSU.

I have no idea what the multiple sine wave output traces are.  I agree with 007, I have NEVER seen that before.  Maybe an artifact of the scope...?   Simply not sure.

I also see no "intentional" ground wire, but with all the equipment connected, there is an earth ground associated with this circuit.


Summary, we (all of us that can actually acquire the means) need to build replications of this.  Marko is correct--this looks ready to go out the door.  Let's do it !

PeakPositive

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #3, on June 1st, 2016, 10:39 PM »Last edited on June 2nd, 2016, 10:32 AM by ~Russ
Is it just me ? when I click on the link Russ put up I get "video does not exist"


"Here is the list of videos  Marko has posted before and after the event.,

Play list:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsiIKXpZfLKLZDEdBtaDgYeKkVN-OiwT-

Matt Watts


Gunther Rattay

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #5, on June 2nd, 2016, 12:35 AM »
Quote from Matt Watts on June 1st, 2016, 07:01 PM
Some notes; more to come as I analyze the videos further:

1.  Analog meters are probably not reading RMS, so their higher reading than the flukes and scope are pretty close.
2.  "Copper Core" to me indicates that all six strands of wire are all connected together for sure at each end and maybe all together at both ends.  I will try to look close to determine which.  Very easy to try it both ways to see which works best.
3.  007 mentions the wire diameter is 0.56mm.  With insulation that is probably 24 AWG.

Not certain as yet how the L1 and L2 windings are connected.  A circuit diagram from 007 will clear this up.

2000+ amps overall circulating within the toroid windings is very curious.  In effect all electron flow is additive contrary to what would be expected with series windings going in both directions.  My feeling is that positive and negative energy is being separated similar to positive and negative charge on a capacitor.

His modified PSU could be accomplished by having many input capacitors in series and only using one of two of them to drive the internals of the PSU.

I have no idea what the multiple sine wave output traces are.  I agree with 007, I have NEVER seen that before.  Maybe an artifact of the scope...?   Simply not sure.

I also see no "intentional" ground wire, but with all the equipment connected, there is an earth ground associated with this circuit.


Summary, we (all of us that can actually acquire the means) need to build replications of this.  Marko is correct--this looks ready to go out the door.  Let's do it !
I agree - power has to be measured by scope to get reliable data.

Positive - there is a shop where frames and complete coils for replications can be ordered

http://1stopenergies.com/


Matt Watts

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #7, on June 2nd, 2016, 01:03 AM »
Clean-up of Chance notes.

I personally think 007 solution is more complex than necessary and have some ideas how to not only simplify it, but loop it.  This is the goal and will permanently put Marko on the map if we can be successful.  All that is needed is a COP of 1.3 and we can see there is a potential here of a COP between 3.0 and 4.0; that's more than enough leeway to get this puppy crank'n.

~Russ

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #8, on June 2nd, 2016, 10:26 AM »
quote=Matt Watts
Some notes; more to come as I analyze the videos further:

1.  Analog meters are probably not reading RMS, so their higher reading than the flukes and scope are pretty close.

~Russ - he has 3 meters for verification. so all 3 are all most spot on. that should be good enough to see that its correct...

2.  "Copper Core" to me indicates that all six strands of wire are all connected together for sure at each end and maybe all together at both ends.  I will try to look close to determine which.  Very easy to try it both ways to see which works best.

~Russ - the coils have 12 wires in a bundle (Litz wire), in each L1 and L2, DO NOT WIND IN CROSS PATTERNS, ONLY COUNTER CLOCK WISE.
 6 of the wires in the bundle are connected in parallel, that makes one coil. ( input / output)  the other 6 are "sorted out" making it a "copper core" each L1 and L2 are the same i think.

 there are only 3 main ways to " short"  theses coil's,
1. all in parallel ( open ended not looped) this one dose not make sense
 2. all in parallel (close ended, looped)
 3. all in series (close ended, looped)
I will draw some diagrams later.

it is possible that the "shorted coils" are some how connected to the other "shorted coils"... but i dought it. 


3.  007 mentions the wire diameter is 0.56mm.  With insulation that is probably 24 AWG.

~Russ - my charts agree that's 23Awg. however i don't know if that's with a coating or not. but it was mentend it was 18 AWG i think thats wrong. however .56mill is just below 23AWG on this chart:
https://bulkwire.com/help/wire-gauge-awg-reference-table

if he said it wrong it could be .65mill thats still right at 22AWG.

to be honest, i don't think it matters... we just need to calculate the resistance. the amp is a B200H, that's a 200W 4ohm load amp, transformer driven.

we know the coil is 27cm wide, the hold is 9cm, the coil is all in one direction, so insted of 12 points in the jigs, there is 24, this gives us the gap space. Danial uses 12 and over laps the winding.  that's not right according to there last dezighn ( on page 1 of the PDF marko presented) this is know. it also dose not match the math...

so that means we can calculate what 6 raps is on the torus, calculate is better be around 4 ohms. if its not it will mess up the amp ( possibly).


Not certain as yet how the L1 and L2 winding are connected.  A circuit diagram from 007 will clear this up.

~Russ - working on getting that from them. or making my own.

2000+ amps overall circulating within the toroid windings is very curious.  In effect all electron flow is additive contrary to what would be expected with series windings going in both directions.  My feeling is that positive and negative energy is being separated similar to positive and negative charge on a capacitor.

~Russ - i ignore this measurement. its not a good reading in my mined.  one cant measure current this way with all the wires in the circuit...


His modified PSU could be accomplished by having many input capacitors in series and only using one of two of them to drive the internals of the PSU.
 

I have no idea what the multiple sine wave output traces are.  I agree with 007, I have NEVER seen that before.  Maybe an artifact of the scope...?   Simply not sure.

~Russ - i i believe he left a ground off. i came to this conclusion later.


I also see no "intentional" ground wire, but with all the equipment connected, there is an earth ground associated with this circuit.


Summary, we (all of us that can actually acquire the means) need to build replications of this.  Marko is correct--this looks ready to go out the door.  Let's do it !

~Russ - lets do it. i got my amp on order and i'm already getting the bobbin jig drawn up...


~Russ
Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #10, on June 2nd, 2016, 10:40 AM »
Quote from Gunther Rattay on June 2nd, 2016, 12:35 AM
I agree - power has to be measured by scope to get reliable data.

Positive - there is a shop where frames and complete coils for replications can be ordered

http://1stopenergies.com/
these are not quite right, we need 24 slots to make it go ill in one direction.
and 36 slots for the extra gap space ( if we want to fallow the math correctly) But for now we will start with 24 slots in each outer wire holder.
and 11 holders on the main ring. the math states we need 12, but if we do that it will be 6 / 12  individual "circuits" and that's complicated, so to make it easy we  use 11, this gives us one long wrap and we are back at the start, ( going around the torus 11 ( or 12? i cant remember)  times)

this is something Danial / his friends came up with, but it is not correct with the math, again its only to make the coils easier

i have 2 of Danial's coils on my desk... been here for 8 months. just haven't had the time, now i know why. its because i needed this new information.

~Russ 
Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #11, on June 2nd, 2016, 11:57 AM »
The amp used,

Acoustic® B200H professional head

attached is some inside photos of the B200H acoustic amp i found on line. i cant find a schematic...

http://acousticamplification.com/product/b200h/
Quote
B200H

    40 Shares

200 W Bass Guitar Head

The Acoustic® B200H professional head is designed for large club and live applications where it will fill any stage with depth and definition. Used in conjunction with the B115 and/or B410 enclosures, the B200H will easily drive either one or two cabinets in any combination of your choice.

The two bass inputs are designed to accommodate both active and passive bass instruments while the Gain and Volume controls give you complete control over the character of your tone. Increase the Gain for some old school rock tones, or lower it and turn up the volume for great clean, classic or funk tones. The preamp includes a very natural and tube-like compression as well as a harmonically rich distortion circuit, which keeps your tone musical – even at high volume levels. The B200H also includes a notch filter to tailor your mids, and a six-band EQ for exact control over every nuance of your bass's tone.

Rear panel features include a parallel Effects Loop, and XLR balanced Line Out with Level Control and Ground Lift. The two speaker output jacks allow you to directly connect to each enclosure (such as the B115 and/or B410) to maximize your tone and power.

The heritage of Acoustic® comes through loud and clear in the B200H — a seriously professional stage head for serious bassists.
EXTRA GOODIES

• Ground Lift, Effect Loop
OPTIONS

• B115 1×15 Bass Cabinet
• B410 4×10 Bass Cabinet
FEATURES

• Power: 200 Watts @ 4 Ohms
• EQ: 6-Band EQ – Sweepable Frequency Notch Filter
• Channels: 1
• Inputs: Dual Inputs (Passive & Active)
• Outputs: XLR Direct Out
user manual:
http://acousticamplification.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/usermanual/B200H-Manual.pdf

also attached...

~Russ
Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #12, on June 2nd, 2016, 01:42 PM »Last edited on June 2nd, 2016, 05:33 PM
just some notes:

Circuit: ( tank circuit on output)

The output of the Sig gen is going to the passive input on the front of the amp. the Sig gen is set to 5Vpp  0v offset.
Sig gen is a Tektronics AFG1062

amp is a Acoustic® B200H professional head
 "Speaker Out: Two-conductor, 1/4” Speaker Output Jacks, 4 Ohms minimum
load
, parallel."

so the coil can be more than 4 ohms, just not less.

he has a 240V to 120V step down transformer for the amp because its American and he is in another country.

scope used is a Tektronics MDO3034 Mixed Domain Oscilloscope 350Mhz 205GSS/s

he was using a thermal cam FLUKE Ti200, IR Fusion Technology.

using a FLUKE 3000FC to measure output voltage because the scope was not high enough voltage.

L1 Connected to output from amp.

L2 is connected to a cap ( 200Vdc .15uf) ( or 450-500V 2.5uf)   to a full wave bridge rectifier to 8 caps in parallel. (420V 220uf) to a "home brewed, build with some German guys from a wind turbine company" " 2500V to 24Vdc -dc converter,

other configuration is :

 same input, but 7W LED lights connected series and parallel. "to get max out put of voltage / current" ( so tuning)

Coil:

He said there is no real inductance on this coil ( its an air coil) also don't forget because of the spaces it has very high capacitance. 

L1 and L2

L1 and L2 have 12 conductors each.

L1, there are 6 conductors shorted " copper core"
and 6 conductors in parallel making the L1

same for L2.

I stated in the posted replying to Matt.  The diagram possibility's for the "sorted" coils.

resistance is about "15 ohms".

I'm working now to make the bobbin form.

More:

frequency with dc-dc converter is 1.326Khz ( don't let this full you this needs to be tuned to your coil)
frequency with lights is 1.226Khz ( don't let this full you this needs to be tuned to your coil)

More later...

~Russ
Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #13, on June 2nd, 2016, 03:38 PM »
Attaching Danial's original Doc from his website.

~Russ
Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #15, on June 2nd, 2016, 10:32 PM »
FYI, this is not exact, but its close we have 24 points and the coil only goes the one way, but it gives us the idea on how its wound ( well gives you an idea, i already know how :) )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bafvn2JoBpg
~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #17, on June 3rd, 2016, 03:29 AM »Last edited on June 3rd, 2016, 04:18 AM
Here's my first crack at the STL (in binary mm format) files for the former and ring.

Please take a peek and see if I'm in the ballpark.

Keep in mind these are probably not optimal for 3D printing, but should be straight forward for CNC routing of the parts from sheet material using a 1/4" router bit.


~Russ

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #18, on June 3rd, 2016, 10:23 AM »
your in the ball part Matt,

some changes,

1. we need 24 slots ( wire holders) to make 2 coils in the same direction... but make a version with 12, 24, 36, this will cover all basics. ( so make it easy to change in the cad...I think some how you can set theses up easy to change with out much drawing? )

2. the "over cut"  on the slots is good, however maybe not quite as much "under cut" make the slots open more but keep the slight "under cut" it may not look quite like a circle but more of a egg shape...  am i making sense?  this is so we can still get the wire bundle in. its looking tight.

3. extra credit... make notches/ cutouts ( circular in shape )  in the ring plate to save plastic when 3d printing. or holes... between the notches...

you did really good, This will be really easy to print... 

when the changes come ill start printing and test fitting...

good work matt!

~Russ
Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #19, on June 3rd, 2016, 10:42 AM »
one more request,

instead of making the former slot go all the way to the 1/2 way point, can we make it only go 1/4 the way?

this will make the ring smaller... its almost to big to print...

also make the corners of the ring "flat" so the former sits flat agenst the ring. this will  make it better for gluing...

~Russ 

Matt Watts

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #20, on June 3rd, 2016, 11:17 AM »
Quote from ~Russ on June 3rd, 2016, 10:23 AM
1. we need 24 slots ( wire holders) to make 2 coils in the same direction... but make a version with 12, 24, 36, this will cover all basics. ( so make it easy to change in the cad...I think some how you can set theses up easy to change with out much drawing? )
When I finished I was getting a little blurry-eyed.  I thought we needed 24, 12ea for L1/L2.  Let me do the 24 cut first.  I'm thinking things are going to get a little tight for a 36 cut with the same scale.  Not exactly sure how I can prevent the slot from becoming one of the holes for the wire.  I'll have to rethink this a little.

If I understood you correctly, a 36 hole is really just a 24 hole with an evenly spaced gap, so no holes are really needed, just an offset--two holes fairly close together with a space between them.  If we do this without the hole it will make it impossible to place the wire bundle in the wrong place.
Quote from ~Russ on June 3rd, 2016, 10:23 AM
2. the "over cut"  on the slots is good, however maybe not quite as much "under cut" make the slots open more but keep the slight "under cut" it may not look quite like a circle but more of a egg shape...  am i making sense?  this is so we can still get the wire bundle in. its looking tight.
It's going to look even tighter with the 24 cut.  I'm using a bolt pattern for the cuts.  What I can do is try to use an actual circular pattern from an oval template, making the cuts a bit deeper.  You still want the center of the oval to be the 9cm diameter right?
Quote from ~Russ on June 3rd, 2016, 10:23 AM
3. extra credit... make notches/ cutouts ( circular in shape )  in the ring plate to save plastic when 3d printing. or holes... between the notches...
Lightning holes  hehe.  Sure I can do that for you 3D printer guys.    :)
Quote from ~Russ on June 3rd, 2016, 10:23 AM
4. instead of making the former slot go all the way to the 1/2 way point, can we make it only go 1/4 the way?
That should be easy, but I have some concern if the inner wire cut has to also use the slot.
Quote from ~Russ on June 3rd, 2016, 10:23 AM
5. also make the corners of the ring "flat" so the former sits flat agenst the ring. this will  make it better for gluing...
Yes, I skimped on this figuring the slot would provide all the holding necessary.  For a CNC solution, the inner-most portion of the former slot will still be rounded since my router bits can't cut square edges on the inside.  I should be able to bump-off the corners though.


We should reach out to Firepinto.  He's been up to his neck in CAD I thought; could probably knock this out in real-time if we could snag him for a few minutes.  I can do the CAD work, but I'm certainly no Pro at it like he is.

M@

~Russ

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #21, on June 3rd, 2016, 11:49 AM »Last edited on June 3rd, 2016, 01:01 PM
good news, i got the current probes ordered for the oscilloscope we have here at work.

the proves used by 007 is http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/AEMC/pdf/sl261.pdf

that's a good cheep probe. most are like over 1K each...

so good frequency response and all,.

our scope:
TPS2024B
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/tektronix/oscilloscope/tps2024b.htm
with
 TPS2PWR1 (Power Measurement and Analysis Software)
http://www.tek.com/datasheet/tps2pwr1
user manual:
http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/04c6/0900766b804c6b80.pdf
probes:
2x : P5100A
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/tektronix/accessories/oscilloscope-probe/tek-p5100a-high-voltage-probe.htm
4x : TPP0201 ( factory probes)
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/tektronix/accessories/oscilloscope-probe/tek-tpp0201-passive-probe.htm

when received we will have
2x : SL261


I'm all set for proper measurements DC to 100kHz 100ma to 100A 0-1000VRMS isolated probes...

i cant get much better than that...

~Russ

Ps.  i have been working on getting the proper equipment for a while now :) 
things we need at work to do it properly...


Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #22, on June 3rd, 2016, 12:05 PM »
Matt, i have a cad guy who offered to help this morning. let me get him to finish it
upload what you have here in the proper formats for cad...

~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #23, on June 3rd, 2016, 12:26 PM »
Quote from ~Russ on June 3rd, 2016, 12:05 PM
Matt, i have a cad guy who offered to help this morning. let me get him to finish it
upload what you have here in the proper formats for cad...

~Russ
STEP files attached for each piece in millimeter units.

~Russ

Re: The Rodin Coil Over Unity Energy Amplifier. Russ's Work
« Reply #24, on June 3rd, 2016, 12:52 PM »
ok, buddy Jim is working on the drawing, he is going to try to get it done before 5 his time ( I think that's in like 3 hrs)  i'm going to try to start printing the stuff tonight if it done.

Matt, are you wanting my to make some for you or are going to CNC?