Russ's Burn Rate Testing

~Russ

Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« on December 27th, 2011, 09:11 AM »Last edited on December 27th, 2011, 09:18 AM by ~Russ/Rwg42985
This thread is for my burn rate testing. basically i will be posting the video updates here with any other information i have the time to post!

all is welcome to put the thoughts here about what im doing...

Enjoy!

~Russ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh-VTh8dCBE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUmAMvue_jc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXLNnRxRE2I


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LE0XBTinb0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZE5VHeObiU


Forum Administrator

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #2, on December 30th, 2011, 11:14 PM »
Nice work!  Looking forward to this year and the development on this work that will come.  Thanks everyone for working together.

~Russ

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #3, on January 3rd, 2012, 11:00 PM »
Quote from admin on December 30th, 2011, 11:14 PM
Nice work!  Looking forward to this year and the development on this work that will come.  Thanks everyone for working together.
yes! i agree! we all must continue doing what we can!!! thanks matt!!! ~Russ

BRUXXUS

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #6, on February 29th, 2012, 08:23 PM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hey Russ! I *think* I'm following your instructions to post a reply on here rather than on YouTube ;o)

I read through the comments to see if anyone else has suggested it and I think one person was close, and you replied to them.  In the video you're adding ambient air using a pump of some sort.  Now I know you said it's not pressurized, but if it's being pumped into a closed system when the solenoid opens it would pressurize the chamber, even if it's just a little.

Now my question, and I'm sorry if I've just overlooked this, but if there's a positive pressure change in the chamber when filling, could this be pushing the cylinder out a bit BEFORE the spark fires?

I guess the way to see if this is happening would be to make sure the cylinder is pushed in all the way after filling but before ignition. OR using a clear tube  ;o)

B

Blazer

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #7, on February 29th, 2012, 09:14 PM »
See pat# 1,096,991 Page 8  sec 36 "Ozone differs chemically from atmosferic oxygen in that the molecule of the latter is composed of 2 atoms while the ozone molecule consist of 3 atoms of oxygen.  Ozone is an endothermic compound 36.2 calories of heat being absorbed in its formation from oxygen.  For this reason ozone is very unstable and reverts readily into ordinary oxygen, during which change, 1 atom of the oxygen is set free, together with 36.2 calories"  Section 50 further states  "As the electric action changes the oxygen into ozone, a decrease in the VOLUME of the gas becomes evident, due to the fact that the ozone molecule occupies the same space as the oxygen molecule."                 So it seems that if the cell is producing any oxygen in a decreased volume state and is unstable would it not increase volume as it becomes stable?? Would it not also create heat to further expand the atmospheric air?
RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #8, on February 29th, 2012, 09:14 PM »
See pat# 1,096,991 Page 8  sec 36 "Ozone differs chemically from atmosferic oxygen in that the molecule of the latter is composed of 2 atoms while the ozone molecule consist of 3 atoms of oxygen.  Ozone is an endothermic compound 36.2 calories of heat being absorbed in its formation from oxygen.  For this reason ozone is very unstable and reverts readily into ordinary oxygen, during which change, 1 atom of the oxygen is set free, together with 36.2 calories"  Section 50 further states  "As the electric action changes the oxygen into ozone, a decrease in the VOLUME of the gas becomes evident, due to the fact that the ozone molecule occupies the same space as the oxygen molecule."                 So it seems that if the cell is producing any oxygen in a decreased volume state and is unstable would it not increase volume as it becomes stable?? Would it not also create heat to further expand the atmospheric air?

~Russ

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #9, on February 29th, 2012, 11:29 PM »
Quote from BRUXXUS on February 29th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hey Russ! I *think* I'm following your instructions to post a reply on here rather than on YouTube ;o)

I read through the comments to see if anyone else has suggested it and I think one person was close, and you replied to them.  In the video you're adding ambient air using a pump of some sort.  Now I know you said it's not pressurized, but if it's being pumped into a closed system when the solenoid opens it would pressurize the chamber, even if it's just a little.

Now my question, and I'm sorry if I've just overlooked this, but if there's a positive pressure change in the chamber when filling, could this be pushing the cylinder out a bit BEFORE the spark fires?

I guess the way to see if this is happening would be to make sure the cylinder is pushed in all the way after filling but before ignition. OR using a clear tube  ;o)

B
piston is not being displeased by anything being pressurized.

thanks for replying here, also, we will see better once i have the clear tube!!!

thanks man!!! ~Russ

chrisvan

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #10, on March 1st, 2012, 05:05 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:29 PM
Quote from BRUXXUS on February 29th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hey Russ! I *think* I'm following your instructions to post a reply on here rather than on YouTube ;o)

I read through the comments to see if anyone else has suggested it and I think one person was close, and you replied to them.  In the video you're adding ambient air using a pump of some sort.  Now I know you said it's not pressurized, but if it's being pumped into a closed system when the solenoid opens it would pressurize the chamber, even if it's just a little.

Now my question, and I'm sorry if I've just overlooked this, but if there's a positive pressure change in the chamber when filling, could this be pushing the cylinder out a bit BEFORE the spark fires?

I guess the way to see if this is happening would be to make sure the cylinder is pushed in all the way after filling but before ignition. OR using a clear tube  ;o)

B
piston is not being displeased by anything being pressurized.

thanks for replying here, also, we will see better once i have the clear tube!!!

thanks man!!! ~Russ
Russ the reason why the piston moves further with axtra ambient air is because you are not getting a complete combustion if you just have hho in the cumbustion chamber there is not enough ambient air or oxygen to complete the process so when the ratio is correct you get a compete burn and the piston moves further in other words your running rich with just hho

phil

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #11, on March 1st, 2012, 02:35 PM »
How about the nitrogen/co2/oxygen mix in the atmospheric is absorbing the heat and expanding and your getting a higher reading on the burn-o-meter. Try another gas like freon (refrigeration gas) one that aborbs heat readily, look for a trashed refridgerator and crimp either side of the cannister then cut the canister off and take it home. You'd have to devise a way of getting the gas into your bom tho.

Have to admit my first thought was it was being pushed halfway before firing but if you say you checked that then its good enough for me, cant wait to se the clear tube.

I got a meter thats got a decibel reading on it thats got a hold function (captures the peak reading) i was thinking of using that to do a bit of testing with. More dB's = more energy.

Could you get cold water mist from a pond fogger or a spray jet into the mix, rumour has it that 1ml expands to 1.8liter when its converted to flash steam.

You could weigh the pistons and measure the distance it goes and im sure theres a formula out there to calculate the amount of energy it took to move a known weight a known distance to give you the joules it took to move it. My minds gone blank as to what it might be.

TinMan

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #12, on March 2nd, 2012, 06:52 AM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hi Russ
I did leave a comment on youtube, but will post one here aswell.
Hi Russ,As you know i am into the HHO game aswell,and there has been much discusion on our forum about HHO.The reason your pure HHO dosnt push the pistion out as far is this-As you know HHO is unburnt water and a small amount of watter make's a large amount of HHO.When you ignight the HHO there is a rapid expansion follow'd by a major contraction as the Small amount of HHO turns back to an even smaller amount of watter.1 ltr of HHO will return to 5ml's of H2o-this is why you get a big vacume
PT2-when you add atomspheric air you increase the burn time causing more heat.This eliminates most of the vacume when the HHO returns to it water state as the now mixed gases remain hotter for longer.A guy by the name of Kultus on our forum has been to a seminar were they show'd this happening in a sealed ram.When they filled it with HHO fully extended and ignighted the HHO-the ram actualy went back inside the cylender.
Hope this help's.




Blazer

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #13, on March 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM »
Looking in terms of a combustion engine the vaccume could be a desired effect if you can retard the opening of the exhaust port.  Combustion engines lose a lot of efficientcy due to the fact that they fire as the crank  is in its nearest position.  If you were to retard the spark and fire and expand before the 90 degree position of the crank (for better efficiency) and the vaccum would begin as the piston hits its lowpoint.  So an ideal gas may be total piston travel in both directions.  We may also look at using the most ambient possible (since that is the free gas)
RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #14, on March 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM »
Looking in terms of a combustion engine the vaccume could be a desired effect if you can retard the opening of the exhaust port.  Combustion engines lose a lot of efficientcy due to the fact that they fire as the crank  is in its nearest position.  If you were to retard the spark and fire and expand before the 90 degree position of the crank (for better efficiency) and the vaccum would begin as the piston hits its lowpoint.  So an ideal gas may be total piston travel in both directions.  We may also look at using the most ambient possible (since that is the free gas)

Boots-2b1

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #15, on March 2nd, 2012, 07:44 PM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hi Russ,
 HH and O ignited in its ratio (2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen) causes an explosion and then an implosion. The implosion is limiting the movement because it is inhabiting some of the explosive power.

Boots-2b1

~Russ

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #16, on March 3rd, 2012, 03:11 AM »
Quote from TinMan on March 2nd, 2012, 06:52 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hi Russ
I did leave a comment on youtube, but will post one here aswell.
Hi Russ,As you know i am into the HHO game aswell,and there has been much discusion on our forum about HHO.The reason your pure HHO dosnt push the pistion out as far is this-As you know HHO is unburnt water and a small amount of watter make's a large amount of HHO.When you ignight the HHO there is a rapid expansion follow'd by a major contraction as the Small amount of HHO turns back to an even smaller amount of watter.1 ltr of HHO will return to 5ml's of H2o-this is why you get a big vacume
PT2-when you add atomspheric air you increase the burn time causing more heat.This eliminates most of the vacume when the HHO returns to it water state as the now mixed gases remain hotter for longer.A guy by the name of Kultus on our forum has been to a seminar were they show'd this happening in a sealed ram.When they filled it with HHO fully extended and ignighted the HHO-the ram actualy went back inside the cylender.
Hope this help's.
thanks TinMan!

yeah i can try this with my setup... that will be a good test. and makes sense.

as always i have a lot of my own theory's and in that video i did not really say any.. lol but that makes sense!  also the time it takes to burn has more push when all the nitrogen is introduced. this also will slow the burn rate, and also have more " time" to push the piston.

i cant wait to get my clear tube in and then we will be able to see what is really going on!

and sense i can make the explosion in that small chamber and not the full tube... we should really be able to see this reaction.  

i really like the Burn O Meter as a home built way to do some of these interesting tests...

thanks for your time and hope to speak more about this fun hydroxy madness...

thanks for all the reply's guys! more tests to be done this weekend.  

~Russ

zcsaba

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #17, on March 3rd, 2012, 01:33 PM »
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:29 PM
Quote from BRUXXUS on February 29th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hey Russ! I *think* I'm following your instructions to post a reply on here rather than on YouTube ;o)

I read through the comments to see if anyone else has suggested it and I think one person was close, and you replied to them.  In the video you're adding ambient air using a pump of some sort.  Now I know you said it's not pressurized, but if it's being pumped into a closed system when the solenoid opens it would pressurize the chamber, even if it's just a little.

Now my question, and I'm sorry if I've just overlooked this, but if there's a positive pressure change in the chamber when filling, could this be pushing the cylinder out a bit BEFORE the spark fires?

I guess the way to see if this is happening would be to make sure the cylinder is pushed in all the way after filling but before ignition. OR using a clear tube  ;o)

B
piston is not being displeased by anything being pressurized.

thanks for replying here, also, we will see better once i have the clear tube!!!

thanks man!!! ~Russ
hi men

One question. You tried add vaporized water to burn o meter?

rgrds zcsaba

Mrfreedom50

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #18, on March 4th, 2012, 03:28 AM »Last edited on March 4th, 2012, 03:49 AM by Mrfreedom50
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”

Hi!
Russ your not increasing combustion!  You’re giving your cylinder a non combustible gas, Nitrogen. Heat from the combustion is being transferred to your ambient air. So what you’re seeing is the thermal properties of your HHO, causing the thermal expansion of all the gases in your cylinder. 78% Nitrogen, 21% oxygen and trace gases.  HHO can burn at several thousand degrees. What would be interesting, is to measure the temperature difference between pure HHO and the ambient addition in a burner or torche head.
Keep up the great work! Love watching you progess.
God Bless
Russ :)


Quote from Mrfreedom50 on March 4th, 2012, 03:28 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”

Sorry! forgot to mention that the secret to SM's device was causing the HHO to explode! Not Inplode. So once you strip the Oxygen electrons, the testing should show a different result from just the simple HHO test. SM also mentioned that the HHO explosion was several times HOTTER than normal HHO. I think I remember in his speech about 15,000 Degrees potential. This is why he was diluting the HHO as not to burn a hole throught the top of the piston LOL.
God Bless
Russ :)

~Russ

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #19, on March 6th, 2012, 01:18 AM »
Quote from zcsaba on March 3rd, 2012, 01:33 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:29 PM
Quote from BRUXXUS on February 29th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVuFbKNal_U

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
Hey Russ! I *think* I'm following your instructions to post a reply on here rather than on YouTube ;o)

I read through the comments to see if anyone else has suggested it and I think one person was close, and you replied to them.  In the video you're adding ambient air using a pump of some sort.  Now I know you said it's not pressurized, but if it's being pumped into a closed system when the solenoid opens it would pressurize the chamber, even if it's just a little.

Now my question, and I'm sorry if I've just overlooked this, but if there's a positive pressure change in the chamber when filling, could this be pushing the cylinder out a bit BEFORE the spark fires?

I guess the way to see if this is happening would be to make sure the cylinder is pushed in all the way after filling but before ignition. OR using a clear tube  ;o)

B
piston is not being displeased by anything being pressurized.

thanks for replying here, also, we will see better once i have the clear tube!!!

thanks man!!! ~Russ
hi men

One question. You tried add vaporized water to burn o meter?

rgrds zcsaba
no i have not.
RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #20, on March 6th, 2012, 01:23 AM »
Quote from Mrfreedom50 on March 4th, 2012, 03:28 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”
Hi!
Russ your not increasing combustion!  You’re giving your cylinder a non combustible gas, Nitrogen. Heat from the combustion is being transferred to your ambient air. So what you’re seeing is the thermal properties of your HHO, causing the thermal expansion of all the gases in your cylinder. 78% Nitrogen, 21% oxygen and trace gases.  HHO can burn at several thousand degrees. What would be interesting, is to measure the temperature difference between pure HHO and the ambient addition in a burner or torche head.
Keep up the great work! Love watching you progess.
God Bless
Russ :)


Quote from Mrfreedom50 on March 4th, 2012, 03:28 AM
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”

Sorry! forgot to mention that the secret to SM's device was causing the HHO to explode! Not Inplode. So once you strip the Oxygen electrons, the testing should show a different result from just the simple HHO test. SM also mentioned that the HHO explosion was several times HOTTER than normal HHO. I think I remember in his speech about 15,000 Degrees potential. This is why he was diluting the HHO as not to burn a hole throught the top of the piston LOL.
God Bless
Russ :)
good stuff man!

yeah i agree thats it creating more "push" by being able to expand more gas with out the POP...

the 15.000 degrease i have not heard of... but yeah. as thus far... no real deference  with the GG... but still need more controlled experiments.

thanks for the feed back Russ!
~Russ

Gambino

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #21, on March 13th, 2012, 06:36 PM »
Russ, here is my guess on the dilution effect you are seeing where the gas with ambient air causes the piston to move further.

Ambient air is 79% is inert gases. So the mixture will slow the burn rate down on the H2 burn. The military teaches a few things about burn rates in explosive compounds. The slower burners are classified as movers while the fast burners are classified as crackers. This is a very simplistic look at explosive compounds but may be useful in determining your burn rate and movement issue.

I am guessing that because you diluted the gas down with inert it slowed the burn rate of the hydrogen down which caused it to expand in the pressure chamber over a longer period of time. While that is taking place the piston is moving forward and the pressure behind it starts to drop, but the gas is still expanding and exerting a force on the backside of the piston which will produce more workforce.

additionally, in one of Stan Meyer's videos he states that he recycles exhaust gases to control the rate of burn in the cylinder of the engine so its burn rate closely matches gasoline. This causes me to consider also some other guy on youtube that showed a civic running on HHO or browns gas. In that guys process he had to retard the ignition to TDC or just before TDC because the HHO burned so quick, under normal timing it would fire before the piston reached TDC. Need I say that is a very bad idea in an ICE?

Anyway I think you have found why the military is constantly looking at new complex chemical compounds with various burn rates. They design explosives for different purposes. I will give you an example they showed me in school. C4 placed under a tree trunk did nothing to move the trunk away from the ground. However, when they used TNT of the same size it moved the tree a very long way from its starting position. They were using this scenario to teach us the difference between a cracker and a mover explosive. C4 burns very fast when ignited and TNT burns much slower, so it builds up pressure over a longer period of time from the point of ignition.

Hope that helps. Keep up the great work.
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ

~Russ

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #22, on March 13th, 2012, 10:08 PM »
Quote from Gambino on March 13th, 2012, 06:36 PM
Russ, here is my guess on the dilution effect you are seeing where the gas with ambient air causes the piston to move further.

Ambient air is 79% is inert gases. So the mixture will slow the burn rate down on the H2 burn. The military teaches a few things about burn rates in explosive compounds. The slower burners are classified as movers while the fast burners are classified as crackers. This is a very simplistic look at explosive compounds but may be useful in determining your burn rate and movement issue.

I am guessing that because you diluted the gas down with inert it slowed the burn rate of the hydrogen down which caused it to expand in the pressure chamber over a longer period of time. While that is taking place the piston is moving forward and the pressure behind it starts to drop, but the gas is still expanding and exerting a force on the backside of the piston which will produce more workforce.

additionally, in one of Stan Meyer's videos he states that he recycles exhaust gases to control the rate of burn in the cylinder of the engine so its burn rate closely matches gasoline. This causes me to consider also some other guy on youtube that showed a civic running on HHO or browns gas. In that guys process he had to retard the ignition to TDC or just before TDC because the HHO burned so quick, under normal timing it would fire before the piston reached TDC. Need I say that is a very bad idea in an ICE?

Anyway I think you have found why the military is constantly looking at new complex chemical compounds with various burn rates. They design explosives for different purposes. I will give you an example they showed me in school. C4 placed under a tree trunk did nothing to move the trunk away from the ground. However, when they used TNT of the same size it moved the tree a very long way from its starting position. They were using this scenario to teach us the difference between a cracker and a mover explosive. C4 burns very fast when ignited and TNT burns much slower, so it builds up pressure over a longer period of time from the point of ignition.

Hope that helps. Keep up the great work.
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
that's it, and that's the same conclusion i had, i also like the other info and references! good stuff!

also, yes, Stan did indeed use recycled  exhaust gasses or "non combustible" gasses... so all this makes sense and is also the stuff i'm trying to verify. all the tests are looking good so far. the Gas Gun is seeming to have no effect on the burn rate... but i.m also not pressurizing it...  and i still have some work to do on the GG.

thanks for the reply!!! ~Russ

securesupplies

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #23, on April 16th, 2012, 11:23 AM »
Quote from Blazer on March 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM
Looking in terms of a combustion engine the vaccume could be a desired effect if you can retard the opening of the exhaust port.  Combustion engines lose a lot of efficientcy due to the fact that they fire as the crank  is in its nearest position.  If you were to retard the spark and fire and expand before the 90 degree position of the crank (for better efficiency) and the vaccum would begin as the piston hits its lowpoint.  So an ideal gas may be total piston travel in both directions.  We may also look at using the most ambient possible (since that is the free gas)
Nice quote Blazer ,

It is very interesting, Stephen Meyer said in his interview  posted on tony site that engines are 1 % effiecient when looked at as a complete unit so every smart correction mkes huge gains.

Blazer

RE: Russ's Burn Rate Testing
« Reply #24, on April 16th, 2012, 01:41 PM »Last edited on April 16th, 2012, 01:49 PM by Blazer
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on March 13th, 2012, 10:08 PM
Quote from Gambino on March 13th, 2012, 06:36 PM
Russ, here is my guess on the dilution effect you are seeing where the gas with ambient air causes the piston to move further.

Ambient air is 79% is inert gases. So the mixture will slow the burn rate down on the H2 burn. The military teaches a few things about burn rates in explosive compounds. The slower burners are classified as movers while the fast burners are classified as crackers. This is a very simplistic look at explosive compounds but may be useful in determining your burn rate and movement issue.

I am guessing that because you diluted the gas down with inert it slowed the burn rate of the hydrogen down which caused it to expand in the pressure chamber over a longer period of time. While that is taking place the piston is moving forward and the pressure behind it starts to drop, but the gas is still expanding and exerting a force on the backside of the piston which will produce more workforce.

additionally, in one of Stan Meyer's videos he states that he recycles exhaust gases to control the rate of burn in the cylinder of the engine so its burn rate closely matches gasoline. This causes me to consider also some other guy on youtube that showed a civic running on HHO or browns gas. In that guys process he had to retard the ignition to TDC or just before TDC because the HHO burned so quick, under normal timing it would fire before the piston reached TDC. Need I say that is a very bad idea in an ICE?

Anyway I think you have found why the military is constantly looking at new complex chemical compounds with various burn rates. They design explosives for different purposes. I will give you an example they showed me in school. C4 placed under a tree trunk did nothing to move the trunk away from the ground. However, when they used TNT of the same size it moved the tree a very long way from its starting position. They were using this scenario to teach us the difference between a cracker and a mover explosive. C4 burns very fast when ignited and TNT burns much slower, so it builds up pressure over a longer period of time from the point of ignition.

Hope that helps. Keep up the great work.
Quote from ~Russ/Rwg42985 on February 29th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Hydroxy Has More Explosive Pressure With Extra Ambient Air??? “Burn-O-Meter”

thoughts? thanks!!!

~Russ
that's it, and that's the same conclusion i had, i also like the other info and references! good stuff!

also, yes, Stan did indeed use recycled  exhaust gasses or "non combustible" gasses... so all this makes sense and is also the stuff i'm trying to verify. all the tests are looking good so far. the Gas Gun is seeming to have no effect on the burn rate... but i.m also not pressurizing it...  and i still have some work to do on the GG.

thanks for the reply!!! ~Russ
I found a patent from some NASA guys.  They filed their patent at the same time frame Stan had started to file his patents.  Their pat. is basicly a recycled exhaust system with ARGON added to the closed loop exhaust recovery. Patent# 4,112,875 Titled: HYDROGEN_FUELED ENGINE  Sept. 12 1978