Wanted: Creative Thinkers

Matt Watts

Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« on August 15th, 2014, 01:01 PM »Last edited on August 15th, 2014, 01:04 PM
Can anyone propose how you would get a large current through water without using any conductive plates or electrodes?

I have an answer (which I will show you later), but I want to see if we have any creative thinkers left onboard this forum.

freethisone

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #1, on August 15th, 2014, 01:54 PM »Last edited on August 15th, 2014, 01:58 PM
Quote from Matt Watts on August 15th, 2014, 01:01 PM
Can anyone propose how you would get a large current through water without using any conductive plates or electrodes?

I have an answer (which I will show you later), but I want to see if we have any creative thinkers left onboard this forum.
lol a microwave oven...

or a flame.. hehehe, how did i do? :huh: :P

i was now thinking a square foot ice water.a square foot of boiling water. and i tiny tiny wire connecting the two. probly need a least a nail sized conductor made of steel..

try a fennel lense to boil the water.. hehhe, or simply any solar energy passing through the water will place a large charge through it.

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #2, on August 15th, 2014, 02:02 PM »
Quote from freethisone on August 15th, 2014, 01:54 PM
... will place a large charge through it.
Not a charge.  Plain electrical current.  Not RF, not light.  No conductors of any sort actually in contact with the water.

Keep at it guys.  This is the kind of stuff that wakes you up at night.


Jeff Nading

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #3, on August 15th, 2014, 03:11 PM »Last edited on August 15th, 2014, 03:31 PM
Well, I would say it occurs naturally with the oceans being an electrolyte and could happen with lightening striking a body of water, don't take a shower in a lightening storm. :D  I think high ion content of the water would flow current easilly as well.

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #4, on August 15th, 2014, 04:01 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 15th, 2014, 03:11 PM
Well, I would say it occurs naturally with the oceans
Think a little smaller.  Something you could place on a desk.  ;)

element 119

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #5, on August 15th, 2014, 04:47 PM »
A HV spark from a tesla type coil ? but you would need a ground electrode.

nav

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #6, on August 15th, 2014, 05:31 PM »
I'd send it through the water via an electro magnetic flux path.

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #7, on August 15th, 2014, 05:49 PM »
Quote from nav on August 15th, 2014, 05:31 PM
I'd send it through the water via an electro magnetic flux path.
Hmmm, tell me more.

element 119

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #8, on August 15th, 2014, 07:14 PM »
yes a coil on one side of the water filled container sending pulses to another coil on the other side of the container ?

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #9, on August 15th, 2014, 08:24 PM »
Quote from element 119 on August 15th, 2014, 07:14 PM
yes a coil on one side of the water filled container sending pulses to another coil on the other side of the container ?
Not quite.

Sure like to hear nav give me a full description.  I think he almost has the idea.  Let's see if he can articulate it before someone else does.

I can assure you, once you see it, you'll never forget it.  ;)

nasser

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #10, on August 15th, 2014, 09:18 PM »
Hie there..

this is my first post..

sorry if wrong...

key point... "large current through water without using any conductive plates or electrodes?"...

at this point, I used Potassium Hydroxide as active medium for electron to pass trough water.


Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #11, on August 15th, 2014, 09:26 PM »
Quote from nasser on August 15th, 2014, 09:18 PM
I used Potassium Hydroxide as active medium for electron to pass trough water.
Yes, you may need this to get any substantial current flow.

Care to take a crack at how to devise an arrangement based on my description?

nasser

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #12, on August 15th, 2014, 11:10 PM »Last edited on August 15th, 2014, 11:15 PM
Quote from Matt Watts on August 15th, 2014, 09:26 PM
Yes, you may need this to get any substantial current flow.

Care to take a crack at how to devise an arrangement based on my description?
I need to know more details what we want to achieve... but Yes why not.

geenee

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #13, on August 15th, 2014, 11:58 PM »
Water tube, coils and koh?wind coil around water tube? Water tube transformer?

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #14, on August 16th, 2014, 12:37 AM »
Quote from geenee on August 15th, 2014, 11:58 PM
Water tube, coils and koh?wind coil around water tube? Water tube transformer?
Thank goodness geenee.  You came through in a time of need. 
Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #15, on August 16th, 2014, 12:40 AM »
Now the question is:

How does this gizmo work?

Or should I say, what do you think it does?

Gunther Rattay

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #16, on August 16th, 2014, 01:50 AM »
the water flowing thru the coil induces a voltage.

moving water creates a magnetic field. a magnetic field in the coil induces a voltage.

nasser

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #17, on August 16th, 2014, 02:22 AM »
water fracturing occur due to magnetic resonance created by toroid coil  i guess....

Jamie H.

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #18, on August 16th, 2014, 04:45 AM »
If one could generate a large amount of wind... Lol, but, I see this was not a trick question. 

Lynx

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #19, on August 16th, 2014, 05:17 AM »
So it actually induces an electric current through the water?

Interesting.

Given the poor ratio, I.E the many primary turns versus the measly 3 turns on the secondary, the current through the water would then amount to hilarious levels, virtually boiling the water in no time at all.

So what is it then?

Jeff Nading

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #20, on August 16th, 2014, 05:52 AM »
Yes, please, let the cat out of the bag, spill the beans :D :D he he.

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #21, on August 16th, 2014, 09:35 AM »
Quote from Gunther Rattay on August 16th, 2014, 01:50 AM
the water flowing thru the coil induces a voltage.

moving water creates a magnetic field. a magnetic field in the coil induces a voltage.
The water isn't moving.  So what is creating the magnetic field?

Has to be dielectricity.  You can't have magnetism without it.  But to get magnetism, something else is needed.  What would that be?

Rotation.  The dielectricity must be rotating.  Think about a coil.  It's a circular shaped object, so if something moves through it or follows its dimensions, there must be a torque at some point centered within the round shape.  And this torque would certainly create a spin, a rotation.

So what does it mean to induce?  And what is a voltage?

We throw these terms around like we actually understand them, but do we really?

Lets take a stab at induction knowing that we are dealing with a rotation.  If I do something to create a rotation centered at some point, you should be able to do the reverse of what I did as long as you use the same center point.  If you use a different center point, there will be no induction or at best only partial induction.

How about voltage?  Lets think about this in terms of rotation and the number of turns in a transformer.  Maybe we can visualize what this electrical unit is actually telling us.  Because transformer turns ratio appears to be linear, lets use the analogy of mechanical gears.

I don't know if you see what I see in this image, but I clearly see voltage being the speed of rotation at the center point of each of these two meshed gears.  Voltage must have something to do with rotational velocity or the size of the rotating object.  And what could be the object here?  Dielectricity maybe...?


Now you see why I'm looking for creative thinkers?  This is all a puzzle, but I suspect our creator has given us the tools and abilities to decipher it.  We just need to think.

Lynx

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #22, on August 16th, 2014, 09:47 AM »
So what does it do then?
Where did you find that picture and is there a clip of the in action?

Matt Watts

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #23, on August 16th, 2014, 09:56 AM »
That picture is my setup.  At the moment because of the turns ratio, I can't quite get enough voltage from mains power (110 volt here) to overcome the resistance in the water, even with fairly strong electrolyte.  If I remove turns from the primary, my toroid saturates.  So what I really need is to add some step-ups in front of it; that should tell the story.  If I use a piece of copper wire with the same number of turns as the tubing, I get about 2.6 volts and amperage that will smoke the wire when I short it in seconds.

What I haven't heard anyone say yet is, "You can't do electrolysis from AC power".   I'm guessing no one knows for sure whether that really is the case or not.

Lynx

Re: Wanted: Creative Thinkers
« Reply #24, on August 16th, 2014, 10:16 AM »
Ah, thanks.

So does the water get hot at all?