AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)

~Russ

AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« on August 5th, 2014, 03:43 PM »Last edited on August 5th, 2014, 04:10 PM


ok, well there is nothing new here if you ask me, this has been demonstrated in the past in different ways. ( bitoroid for one) 

???

Russ Analise's  demo of AuroraTek teslatech 2014

120 turns on the secondary's?

right coil is:120mH and 17 ohms.
left coil is:122mH and 15 ohms.


20 turns on the primary?

3.07mH 1.4ohms.

output connected in parrall but there outside of one connected to the out side of the other. (netruil?)
 
"its 3:1 ratio"
"all the same wire size"

it looked to be about 20-22 awg

metglas cores. found some here:

http://www.mkmagnetics.com/products.shtml

not the right core i dont think:
http://www.dextermag.com/products-page/amcc-400-core-set.html

still working on dimentions of the cores....
will do this once i get some more still shots to mesure...

~Russ
Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #1, on August 5th, 2014, 04:08 PM »
more clues here if you want them...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXno_7xXSZs#ws

add to my notes!

~Russ

i may order some metglas cores and try this out...

to easy to pass up.

~Russ

Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #2, on August 5th, 2014, 04:34 PM »Last edited on August 5th, 2014, 04:43 PM
Quote from ~Russ on August 5th, 2014, 04:08 PM
i may order some metglas cores and try this out...

to easy to pass up.
If you could just find me the Si-Steel for the core in my builder area, we could knock this out in a week and have the answer guaranteed.  I still have the guy downtown ready to cut the laminates with his CNC water cutter.  I have the bobbins and the wire too.

Personally I think the MetGlas cores are overkill.  The whole trick is to make sure the core between the secondaries is much larger (easier flux path) than the two cores used by the primary winding.  That's really all there is to it.  Nature will take the path of least resistance and you'll see the COP > 1 effect.

Where I really want to go with this is to go big and get it to run at 60Hz, then hook it to my M/G and see how the generator reacts.  If it doesn't lug down the motor, we're in business.  And...   If it outputs enough power to run the motor, it's game, set, match.

The question I have for you Russ is:  You were there, you saw the calculations.  Did Bill do them correctly?

Gunther Rattay

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #3, on August 5th, 2014, 05:56 PM »
Quote from Matt Watts on August 5th, 2014, 04:34 PM
...
The question I have for you Russ is:  You were there, you saw the calculations.  Did Bill do them correctly?
Using excel there should be more appropriate ...

Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #6, on August 5th, 2014, 11:32 PM »
Found something else Russ.  Remember Don Smith?

Have a look at this device using just a single C-Core.  Primary wrapped on the outside.  Works the same way or possibly even better.

~Russ

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #7, on August 7th, 2014, 07:21 AM »
Quote from Matt Watts on August 5th, 2014, 04:34 PM
The question I have for you Russ is:  You were there, you saw the calculations.  Did Bill do them correctly?
this is why i took such close up shots of his math...  so everyone could reevaluate. ( i did have a PHD in mathematics looking over my shoulder... part of our group, he  would have pointed out any mistakes)

just got done taking with my buddy David, ( 70 year old researcher)

he explained it like this,

once you are at 90 degrees,

your " fly wheeling"

as in the same concept of having a massive a mount of weight spinning at high speed,

now, remove the input,

it will spin for a ling long time,

now pulse it every once in a while to keep it going.

there you just set up that 90degree phase shift.

or slightly above,

ok, now lets try to extract power from that shaft...

( even with that slight pulse it will sloe down.)

this was the way he explained it, i thought it was a good thought
 
so our options are to make a generator that has no "bogging" "eddy currents" something that will make power with out dragging down the " rpm" of the " fly wheel"

so to do this solid state and maybe you will have something to play with...

if you have the stuff Matt, put it together and let er rip! would love to see your results of drawing the load...

~Russ

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #8, on August 7th, 2014, 07:23 AM »
what interests me the most is the use of coils only, no magnets ( Floyd sweet) and no caps... like others use.

~Russ


shzradz

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #9, on August 8th, 2014, 09:42 AM »
I Really liked the Video Russ, Thanks for sharing all the links too. While many good comments on the aspects of alternatives as well. I understand the principal and love the simplicity of the example he used with the Gyros. I have a Fluke 97 scopemeter but his was really nice.

Like analogy of water to electricity this demonstrates the basis of the dynamics involved here.

Thanks again for posting! Scott

freethisone


Lynx

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #11, on August 8th, 2014, 11:20 PM »
Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:

Am I looking at a "modified" heat pump kind of mechanism here, which, according to the heat pump principle, first amplifies the energy used to heat water, which then together with the rotating mechanism and compressed air helps turning around a typical motor/alternator setup which in the end powers traditional heat elements rated at a total of 3 times the active input power needed to power the whole machine to start with?

In that case they've cracked the code regarding how to efficiently convert heat energy into mechanical energy, something that which "always" has been considered to be impossible according the the books of physics.

Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #12, on September 3rd, 2014, 05:00 PM »
Guess it's time for me to build one of these guys.  The only way to know is to do...

Thanks Russ for getting such good video of it.
Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #14, on October 11th, 2014, 09:05 PM »
Take a close look at this:

https://vimeo.com/99107648

Seems Bill was able to fabricate his SmartPak system.  Notice the big SFT mounted on top of his circuitry.  Looks just like the image above.

~Russ

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #15, on October 13th, 2014, 02:54 PM »
hummm. i'm optimistic...

i did however did see that guy with the hat in that magazine that was on the table. lol

Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #16, on November 6th, 2014, 08:45 PM »
Need some help guys.

That SFT you see in the attachment above, I built one and have been testing with it.

Came across a strange (to me) behavior that I cannot explain.

I'm using a sine wave signal generator driving my 300 watt audio amp.  This amp has an output transformer with selectable impedance matching.  I'm using the 4 ohm output.

With the SFT connected to the amp and no connections on either secondary, I get a typical 90 phase shift with voltage leading current.  When I connect a load (a 12 volt automotive headlamp), the input phase shift drops back to approximately 20 degrees.  This is with the two secondaries in series, in phase.  This transformer seems to transfer power using the Amorphous C-Cores quite nicely, unlike the silicon steel C-cores that couldn't run above 200 Hz.

What I have been doing is adjusting the frequency to develop the maximum voltage across the load.  This is typically been in the 500Hz to 2500Hz range.  Also notable the frequency needs to be set higher as more power is added, indicating the core is at the point of saturation.

So next I started playing with adding capacitors.  First thing I did was to add a capacitor in parallel with the load.  This produced a voltage lagging current phase shift on the input of the SFT.  With the right combination of capacitors, I could get the input phase shift a full 90 degrees, however with these capacitors, the phase shift is a full 180 opposite of the original test--that being current leading by 90 instead of lagging by 90.  Doing this led to...

Pop!

The audio amp blew a fuse and illuminated its protection indicator.

So I'm not sure what the heck is going on here.  If a phase shift is negative 90 degrees, what exactly does that mean?  And why would the amplifier respond different than when the phase shift is positive 90 degrees?  My thought was that if the phase shift is 90 degrees, it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative, it still is a zero power factor, which is the spot I'm trying to focus on.

So before I can test more, I need to replace a fuse and get some answers, because I'm a little stumped.

Lynx, I know you understand this stuff.  Can you help me get past this current hurdle?   Anyone?


Many thanks gang,


M@

Smoky

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #17, on November 6th, 2014, 10:12 PM »
Hi Matt,
I am on my 7th rewind of this design, using a pair of small Metglas cores and a large Metglas on output stage.
The highest efficiency I have been able to achieve is in the high ninety percent range. At 5KHz into 2 off 1 Ohm resistive loads, one on each output coil.
I agree with you about the strange behavior at all loads input phase shift looks inductive and current lags by up to 90 Degrees.
At intermediate loads I too get 45 degrees shift and when operating into the 1 Ohm loads above I get close to 90 degrees shift (inductive).

So both open and short phase shift approaches 90 degrees.

For Mr Alec to get a shift of greater than 90 degrees as claimed in the Tesla conference videos,
It is necessary for the resistance component of the input impedance to go negative.

To supply energy back to the source the phase shift has lie between >90 and < 270 degrees because Cos phi is negative value under these conditions.

Noting the very high resistances in the windings in his transformer, leads me to think that the wire is somehow special.
I have tried winding with insulated steel wire performance deteriorates badly.

Good luck Matt, we just have to keep trying ...I hope this feedback helps you.
Gerry




Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #18, on November 6th, 2014, 11:42 PM »Last edited on November 6th, 2014, 11:50 PM
Quote from Smoky on November 6th, 2014, 10:12 PM
Hi Matt,
I am on my 7th rewind of this design, using a pair of small Metglas cores and a large Metglas on output stage.
The highest efficiency I have been able to achieve is in the high ninety percent range. At 5KHz into 2 off 1 Ohm resistive loads, one on each output coil.
I agree with you about the strange behavior at all loads input phase shift looks inductive and current lags by up to 90 Degrees.
At intermediate loads I too get 45 degrees shift and when operating into the 1 Ohm loads above I get close to 90 degrees shift (inductive).

So both open and short phase shift approaches 90 degrees.

For Mr Alec to get a shift of greater than 90 degrees as claimed in the Tesla conference videos,
It is necessary for the resistance component of the input impedance to go negative.

To supply energy back to the source the phase shift has lie between >90 and < 270 degrees because Cos phi is negative value under these conditions.

Noting the very high resistances in the windings in his transformer, leads me to think that the wire is somehow special.
I have tried winding with insulated steel wire performance deteriorates badly.

Good luck Matt, we just have to keep trying ...I hope this feedback helps you.
Gerry
Thank you a bunch for your reply and welcome aboard OSE.

I haven't been quite so fortunate to get the 90 degree shift with my current windings when heavily loaded.  I'm seeing pretty much standard transformer behavior.  My setup compared to yours has two differences that I see straight away:
(1)  I'm using heavy gauge insulated wire with much fewer turns.
(2)  My shunt is a 0.12 ohm.

Dave over at Energetic Forum discovered that using a too high value shunt resistor threw his readings way off, so I went as small as I could find.

Very good to know others are working on this thing too.  Maybe if we compare notes, we'll have a chance of getting this to work as hoped.  My goal was to run the SFT at the 90 degree mark and optimize how much power can be pulled from the secondaries while running at a power factor of zero.  I haven't even attempted to try going beyond 90 degrees.

Attached is the pic of my SFT I took tonight.  It has no problem illuminating automotive lamps which I couldn't do before with the large silicon steel C-cores.  The bad side is that when it does this, the power factor is probably close to 80%, which is way far away from my target.

Smoky

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #19, on November 7th, 2014, 12:14 AM »
Hi Matt, thanks for the welcome :)

Have attached a pic of my phase shift at 1 Ohm load per side. 
I think you can know if your design is working properly when loading or shorting one side produces a significant increase in the other.

This means that the majority of Lenz flux is taking the shorter route over to the opposite secondary coil. 
If output core is already saturated or there's not much output current, not much increase will be seen.

If our setups were perfect our output loads would not affect our input impedance, though even Auroratek's loads affected their input impedance.

The true beauty in this design lies in the "apparent superconductivity" or more accurately apparent negative resistance of the windings.
 
Am researching this aspect, I wrote to Mr Alec but he politely declined to comment. 
In previous years he was far more accommodating with help in form of pdf's.

Gerry
 

Lynx

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #20, on November 7th, 2014, 10:19 AM »
Connecting caps to the output of your amplifier will indeed compensate the inductive component, aamof you can even impedance match the two and get the voltage completely in phase with the current, this is common occurance when it comes to compensate for instance inductionmotor groups in industries, just to increase the power factor to close to 1, making the apparent current (almost) equal to the sum of all the active currents, both for the sake of decreasing the apparent current and also for the industry at hand to avoid paying penalty fees on account of taking all too high reactive loads on the lines feeding the industry to start with.

You should actually be able to see "perfect" impedance matching by measuring, I.E looking at, both the voltage directly through a probe and the current through a shunt, on your scope,  and then by attaching a not too high valued AC capacitor on the output of your amp and then by adjusting the frequency of your sine generator see the current and the voltage approaching eachother on the scope as you change the frequency at hand.

As an AC capacitor also makes an electric load, which increases, I.E the current running through it also increases as the frequency increases, this means that you can't attach a however big a capacitor as you want to to the output of your amplifier, simply because you then also will increase the output current from it, to the cap, all along as you increase the frequency on the sine gen.
Ultimately the current through the cap will get too high for the amp's fuse and catastrophe will ensue just because.

Smoky

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #21, on November 7th, 2014, 01:40 PM »
Hi Matt & Lynx,
In the SFT's by Auroratek and Heinz Thane BiToroid..... they are trying to maximise the phase shift between current and applied voltage, not minimise it
As applied power is E times I times Cosine of phase shift. 
Auroratek are able to push their phase shift beyond 90 degrees.
At greater than 90 degrees and less than 270 degrees Cosine becomes a negative value. So E times I times -ve Cosine value gives negative power value. 
This means power is being created rather than dissipated and therefore feeding back into the source rather than taking from source.
I am driving my setup with a 300 + 300 watts car amp setup in bridged mode.  Output impedance is very low with most of these amps.
Am using 50 turns on each output coil double wound so can series or parallel em up.  Input winding is 20 turns. 
Have tried inserting air gaps in input toroids to raise permeability but overall efficiency is reduced.

Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #22, on November 7th, 2014, 03:21 PM »
Yes Gerry, I went back to basics and now I'm seeing exactly what you see with your setup.  I'm getting the 90 phase shift at no load and dead short.  Anything in between I see the phase shift diminish.  I can also see the power transfer from one secondary to the other.  I have yet to see a phase shift in excess of 90 degrees.  Frequency doesn't seem to help.  At 3200Hz I see the most balanced performance.  I have also tried air gaps which seem to just make the SFT perform less efficient.

I think my next step is to wander into the pulsed DC arena.  What I'm going to do here is run the SFT with dead shorted secondaries and try to collect excess power on the primary.  By creating a tank circuit on the primary and pulsing at key intervals in phase with the natural resonance, I'm hoping to see some indication of a circuit that has power gain.  Actually, seeing a runaway condition would be sweet, though I don't expect to.

To be quite honest, I have no idea how Bill is getting phase shifts greater than 90 degrees unless his amp probe behaves far different than using a shunt resistor.  If that's the case, which way is correct?  And if a shunt resistor isn't correct, what does that tell us?

I have also tried to contact Bill and his response was very terse.  The only small piece of information I got from him is that the SFT must run in a step-up configuration, which is something I could try, but I'm not too hopeful.

Smoky

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #23, on November 7th, 2014, 06:33 PM »
Hi Matt,
Yes me too........ not getting greater than 90 degrees.
At least your Lenz flux paths are re-enforcing the opposite output coil, this energy is normally wasted  by finding it's way back to primary lowering primary impedance and sucking more energy from source.

Pulsing the core input ON/OFF will only step magnetise it toward saturation, unless it has an air gap which allows core to "relax" back to ambient state between pulses
If you have a H Bridge setup you can try pulsing to saturate primary first in one direction say N to S then in the other S to N, by switching between +ve and +ve rails.
Saturation should makes drive core impedance go up increasing reluctance to Lenz flux getting back to primary. I found my efficiency dropped though, when placing thin spacers in between drive toroid halves. So not too sure of my facts here..... as you said it does behave strangely.

Re the input phase delay. 
If we think of a cross on a piece of graph paper... the vertical line would be X L above the horizontal axis and X C below the horizontal axis,
Now from the centre of the cross to the right along the horizontal axis is +ve Resistance and from centre of cross to left is -ve resistance.
A perfect X L inductor with zero resistance can only lie upon the +ve vertical axis at right angles to the horizontal.
Hence it's best highest angle is 90 degrees to horizontal.

In order to plot an impedance on the negative side of the horizontal resistance line the resistance has to appear to be negative, no matter if we are dealing with X L or X C, the resistive component has to be negative. To place it in the 2nd or 3rd quadrants going anti clockwise around our graph.

Hope this makes sense to you.

I used about 14 metres of copper wire in each output coil and the DC resistance was less than 2 Ohms. Though the inductance was close to Auroratek value stated. 
It seems the special wire used in the video doesn't have many free electrons to support normal current flow so it's resistance reads high.

More than this I don't know am in the dark also, but researching on these effects.

Gerry

.

 

Matt Watts

Re: AuroraTek demonstion tesla tech 2014 overunity? (Russ's View)
« Reply #24, on November 7th, 2014, 07:27 PM »
Quote from Smoky on November 7th, 2014, 06:33 PM
Pulsing the core input ON/OFF will only step magnetise it toward saturation, unless it has an air gap which allows core to "relax" back to ambient state between pulses
If you have a H Bridge setup you can try pulsing to saturate primary first in one direction say N to S then in the other S to N, by switching between +ve and +ve rails.
Saturation should makes drive core impedance go up increasing reluctance to Lenz flux getting back to primary. I found my efficiency dropped though, when placing thin spacers in between drive toroid halves. So not too sure of my facts here..... as you said it does behave strangely.
Got an idea for this one.  Wrap the primary bifilar and use two switches, so they alternate the flux direction.
Quote from Smoky on November 7th, 2014, 06:33 PM
It seems the special wire used in the video doesn't have many free electrons to support normal current flow so it's resistance reads high.
Oh no, not another case of magic pixie dust wire.  There are still a few talking about how Stan Meyer used this special wire too.

From the demo video, I sure couldn't see anything out of the ordinary with the wire used.  But I will say, if Bill was willing to show us everything out in the open, he quite possibly could have hid something in plain sight we would have never picked up on.  It did make me a bit suspicious when he started talking about Cooper Pairs though.  I took it as something that happens when the device is powered-up, not something built into the device.  Again, it's possible he put the wire through some sort of process before using it to wrap his SFT.  If this is the case, lord help us figuring it out.