The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #25, on August 18th, 2011, 08:06 PM »Last edited on August 18th, 2011, 08:21 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 18th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Ha Will, the picture you posted with your switching problem did not come out, all I see is a blank page and your text, is this a schematic or something else, Jeff.
Here it is. I can see it ok on here
http://www.dir-t-will.com/filesharing/files/4N35.bmp


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Russ, I think I can give that circuit a go... Ill try to skype soon so we can clarify some things

Jeff Nading

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #26, on August 18th, 2011, 08:20 PM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 18th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 18th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Ha Will, the picture you posted with your switching problem did not come out, all I see is a blank page and your text, is this a schematic or something else, Jeff.
Here it is. I can see it ok on here
http://www.dir-t-will.com/filesharing/files/4N35.bmp
Hi Will, thanks, all I got this time to was a white screen, so I thought a minute and saved the image to my doc. and there it was your scope picture. Next question is, what scope do you have? I have been looking for one USB compatible to use the laptop as the scope screen, is that what you have? How much did it cost and how do you like it, if you don't mind my asking, thanks, Jeff.

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #27, on August 19th, 2011, 07:37 AM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 18th, 2011, 08:20 PM
Quote from dirtwill on August 18th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 18th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Ha Will, the picture you posted with your switching problem did not come out, all I see is a blank page and your text, is this a schematic or something else, Jeff.
Here it is. I can see it ok on here
http://www.dir-t-will.com/filesharing/files/4N35.bmp
Hi Will, thanks, all I got this time to was a white screen, so I thought a minute and saved the image to my doc. and there it was your scope picture. Next question is, what scope do you have? I have been looking for one USB compatible to use the laptop as the scope screen, is that what you have? How much did it cost and how do you like it, if you don't mind my asking, thanks, Jeff.
http://www.hantek.com/english/produce.asp?classid=29&page=2
Just got my first oscilloscope a few weeks ago and lovin it... This is the same brand Russ has. I payed only $130-$150 on ebay for the 2090 model from china $20 duties... Russ has the 5200 model Which is like $350


Jeff Nading

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #28, on August 19th, 2011, 03:08 PM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 19th, 2011, 07:37 AM
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 18th, 2011, 08:20 PM
Quote from dirtwill on August 18th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 18th, 2011, 01:57 PM
Ha Will, the picture you posted with your switching problem did not come out, all I see is a blank page and your text, is this a schematic or something else, Jeff.
Here it is. I can see it ok on here
http://www.dir-t-will.com/filesharing/files/4N35.bmp
Hi Will, thanks, all I got this time to was a white screen, so I thought a minute and saved the image to my doc. and there it was your scope picture. Next question is, what scope do you have? I have been looking for one USB compatible to use the laptop as the scope screen, is that what you have? How much did it cost and how do you like it, if you don't mind my asking, thanks, Jeff.
http://www.hantek.com/english/produce.asp?classid=29&page=2
Just got my first oscilloscope a few weeks ago and lovin it... This is the same brand Russ has. I payed only $130-$150 on ebay for the 2090 model from china $20 duties... Russ has the 5200 model Which is like $350
Thanks Will, I will check it out, Jeff.

txqNL

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #29, on August 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM »Last edited on August 19th, 2011, 08:20 PM by txqNL
Quote from Rwg42985 on August 18th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Quote from dirtwill on August 17th, 2011, 11:36 PM
I have everything working nicely up to the 4N35. Seems like I cant get a clean signal threw the 4N35... kinda like its not switching fast enough or something. Check it out
i am having the same kind of problems...
~Russ
The 4N35 is working fine, I think you see slow voltage leaking of the base current of the transistor until its off.

Try to make in active pull down with pull up transistor by changing;
- Use the 4.7K r as pull up between base of transistor and supply voltage.
- Pin4 of 4N35 to ground
- Pin5 to base of transistor (with resistor if using transistor)
- And because using normal transistor base current needs to calculated for full on what the resistor value needs to be between base of transistor and Pin5 of 4N35 maybe try 4.7K. (mosfets are a lot easer they have trashold)

(Or the inverse but i see mostly active pull down being used on mosfets(voltage controlled) and TIP is normal transistor so is current controlled)
If on high freq off time is not fast enough then lower the pull up resistor value.

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #30, on August 21st, 2011, 02:38 PM »Last edited on August 21st, 2011, 03:01 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
Quote from txqNL on August 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Quote from Rwg42985 on August 18th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Quote from dirtwill on August 17th, 2011, 11:36 PM
I have everything working nicely up to the 4N35. Seems like I cant get a clean signal threw the 4N35... kinda like its not switching fast enough or something. Check it out
i am having the same kind of problems...
~Russ
The 4N35 is working fine, I think you see slow voltage leaking of the base current of the transistor until its off.

Try to make in active pull down with pull up transistor by changing;
- Use the 4.7K r as pull up between base of transistor and supply voltage.
- Pin4 of 4N35 to ground
- Pin5 to base of transistor (with resistor if using transistor)
- And because using normal transistor base current needs to calculated for full on what the resistor value needs to be between base of transistor and Pin5 of 4N35 maybe try 4.7K. (mosfets are a lot easer they have trashold)

(Or the inverse but i see mostly active pull down being used on mosfets(voltage controlled) and TIP is normal transistor so is current controlled)
If on high freq off time is not fast enough then lower the pull up resistor value.
There is no transistor hooked up. This is just running the 5v signal to either pin 4 or 5 and reading off the other
Quote from txqNL on August 11th, 2011, 10:23 AM
Or even just connect to gating output to the RST input of the 555 timer U1 but again with and gates of output of U1 so gating is synced.

So gating only begins when signal in in defined state so the 50% duty pulse of main freq will be completed before gating is turning signal on or off.
So are you saying to connect U5 pin3 out to U1 pin 4 rst to keep them synced? what do I do with the and gate?? you lost me on that part?
RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #31, on August 22nd, 2011, 06:42 PM »Last edited on August 22nd, 2011, 06:45 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
Cell Driver Circuit



Russ I have not seen the image that you traced... My schematic is missing the one resistor, Your image has the extra 22K Resistor at the bottom... I';m wondering if thats the one?? Link for picture?
RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #32, on August 22nd, 2011, 08:00 PM »
IRFP 260 ... Getting a lesson on transistors :)

~Russ

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #33, on August 23rd, 2011, 09:27 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 22nd, 2011, 06:42 PM
Cell Driver Circuit



Russ I have not seen the image that you traced... My schematic is missing the one resistor, Your image has the extra 22K Resistor at the bottom... I';m wondering if thats the one?? Link for picture?
i took the Real Card and drew it up and what i have is what i found on the card...

the driver circuit is a separate system its on the VIC CARD but is not really connected to anything else on that card...

this is why its hard to see what is really going on in stand GMS system... thus it is going to take a long time to get a full system working correctly even with all the cards in hand... (No I done have the cards... just photos you can find online... )

see attachments ~Russ

i havent had much luck with this driver circuit... but i need to try it again with new parts... :) POOF!

txqNL

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #34, on August 27th, 2011, 12:52 PM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 21st, 2011, 02:38 PM
There is no transistor hooked up. This is just running the 5v signal to either pin 4 or 5 and reading off the other



So are you saying to connect U5 pin3 out to U1 pin 4 rst to keep them synced? what do I do with the and gate?? you lost me on that part?
I tried some simulations of gating with the rst line and inverter on clr line but the start pulse was then not synced so that was not a good idea.
With the gating on the clock divider with the AND port, both first and last pulse are synced while gated on/off.

Have you tried a ~10K resistor from the opto output to the ground ? That forces a discharge of the output to zero when transistor goes off.

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #35, on August 30th, 2011, 05:05 PM »Last edited on August 30th, 2011, 05:05 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
Quote from : http://www.edaboard.com/thread30985.html...

4N35 has rising and falling time in the range of 2µs.
It's main use is: digital logic inputs, microprocessor inputs, ...etc.
For driving MOSFETs there are special options called Gate Drive Optoisolators, example TLP250/1 from Toshiba..
http://www.futurlec.com/LED/TLP250.shtml

Parts:
http://www.futurlec.com/LEDOpto.shtml

firepinto

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #36, on August 30th, 2011, 05:28 PM »
I'm almost done with my ExpressPCB file of The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator.  I have it attached in the zip file.  I haven't received the parts I ordered to test fit any parts as of yet.   I hope I have everything mapped out correctly and didn't miss anything!
  I wish I could find a project box that had screw holes that would work with the radioshack board.  The holes I put in the board design are unique to it's self.  I'd like to keep the design a sort of "bolt on" type part, so that not much fabrication would be needed.  Is there a good dual sided blank PCB/project box combo out there?

Nate

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #37, on August 30th, 2011, 07:54 PM »Last edited on August 30th, 2011, 08:04 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving


Output of the IRFP264 Mosfet. With 12V threw and a 25 Ohm 10W Resistor.  1K resistor Between G and D.

I still have some work to do... The signal goes on instead of off with the gating.

Almost a clean signal except for the waviness... I'm not sure if a cap can clean that up...?

~Russ

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #38, on August 31st, 2011, 04:54 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 30th, 2011, 07:54 PM


Output of the IRFP264 Mosfet. With 12V threw and a 25 Ohm 10W Resistor.  1K resistor Between G and D.

I still have some work to do... The signal goes on instead of off with the gating.

Almost a clean signal except for the waviness... I'm not sure if a cap can clean that up...?
good job will!

 and everyone else.

when we get this working with the opto, we need to re due the schematic. ans Firepento's PCB.

~Russ

firepinto

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #39, on August 31st, 2011, 01:09 PM »
Quote from Rwg42985 on August 31st, 2011, 04:54 AM
Quote from dirtwill on August 30th, 2011, 07:54 PM
Output of the IRFP264 Mosfet. With 12V threw and a 25 Ohm 10W Resistor.  1K resistor Between G and D.

I still have some work to do... The signal goes on instead of off with the gating.

Almost a clean signal except for the waviness... I'm not sure if a cap can clean that up...?
good job will!

 and everyone else.

when we get this working with the opto, we need to re due the schematic. ans Firepento's PCB.

~Russ
I left extra room on the board in that area just in case. :) Also some of the room is for a heat sink, not sure what size will be needed?

Nate

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #40, on August 31st, 2011, 04:35 PM »
Quote from firepinto on August 31st, 2011, 01:09 PM
Quote from Rwg42985 on August 31st, 2011, 04:54 AM
Quote from dirtwill on August 30th, 2011, 07:54 PM
Output of the IRFP264 Mosfet. With 12V threw and a 25 Ohm 10W Resistor.  1K resistor Between G and D.

I still have some work to do... The signal goes on instead of off with the gating.

Almost a clean signal except for the waviness... I'm not sure if a cap can clean that up...?
good job will!

 and everyone else.

when we get this working with the opto, we need to re due the schematic. ans Firepento's PCB.

~Russ
I left extra room on the board in that area just in case. :) Also some of the room is for a heat sink, not sure what size will be needed?

Nate
This IRFP264 mosfet I am using can handle 250V. I guess it depends on what voltage you want to run threw it...(IRFP250 IRFP260 would also work with a lowere voltage, but same basew voltage ;).

I am thinking to mount the mosfet seperatly so your not drawing the high voltage threw your board. On something like a cpu Heatsink maybe even with a fan too... I am new to this so i dont know if this is overkill or not.

Jeff Nading

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #41, on August 31st, 2011, 04:45 PM »
Quote from firepinto on August 30th, 2011, 05:28 PM
I'm almost done with my ExpressPCB file of The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator.  I have it attached in the zip file.  I haven't received the parts I ordered to test fit any parts as of yet.   I hope I have everything mapped out correctly and didn't miss anything!
  I wish I could find a project box that had screw holes that would work with the radioshack board.  The holes I put in the board design are unique to it's self.  I'd like to keep the design a sort of "bolt on" type part, so that not much fabrication would be needed.  Is there a good dual sided blank PCB/project box combo out there?

Nate
Ha firepinto, I just found something that will knock your socks off, you were asking about a box to mount the board in, well watch this video on a free 3d printing machine, desktop style, here is the link  http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page  , it is all open source, Jeff.:cool::D:idea:

firepinto

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #42, on August 31st, 2011, 05:42 PM »
Quote from Jeff Nading on August 31st, 2011, 04:45 PM
Quote from firepinto on August 30th, 2011, 05:28 PM
I'm almost done with my ExpressPCB file of The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator.  I have it attached in the zip file.  I haven't received the parts I ordered to test fit any parts as of yet.   I hope I have everything mapped out correctly and didn't miss anything!
  I wish I could find a project box that had screw holes that would work with the radioshack board.  The holes I put in the board design are unique to it's self.  I'd like to keep the design a sort of "bolt on" type part, so that not much fabrication would be needed.  Is there a good dual sided blank PCB/project box combo out there?

Nate
Ha firepinto, I just found something that will knock your socks off, you were asking about a box to mount the board in, well watch this video on a free 3d printing machine, desktop style, here is the link  http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page  , it is all open source, Jeff.:cool::D:idea:
That is awesome!  I like the part about conductive materials for circuit boards.:cool:  Now someone needs to make the open source 3D scanner so we can replicate and print out WFC's and HGG's  and and... I need to go find my socks.  Thanks for the link Jeff:exclamation:
It looks like the plastic parts would not be water/HHO tight, but maybe a sealer coating could deal with that?

Nate

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #43, on August 31st, 2011, 08:43 PM »

Yellow (Pulse from circuit)
Green (IRFP265 12V output)

So I was able to invert the signal and get the gated pulses we are looking for. Russ I removed the first inverter and everything still works fine(I am not using the first two leds though)

So the Tops of the Pulses are very choppy... I tried capacitors all over the place with no luck :(. But besides that, it seems great :)

~Russ

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #44, on September 1st, 2011, 09:23 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on August 31st, 2011, 08:43 PM

Yellow (Pulse from circuit)
Green (IRFP265 12V output)

So I was able to invert the signal and get the gated pulses we are looking for. Russ I removed the first inverter and everything still works fine(I am not using the first two leds though)

So the Tops of the Pulses are very choppy... I tried capacitors all over the place with no luck :(. But besides that, it seems great :)
cool will, can you sketch up the driver circuit your using for thin? thanks bro!!!

Good Work!

~Russ

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #45, on September 1st, 2011, 08:52 PM »
Output Circuit



Put in a 75Ω instead of 25Ω and getting a nice clean signal. Mosfet Running cool



:)

I had another thought to get finer tuning from freq gen side. Replace the frequency gen pot with a smaller rated one and add more capacitors to switch. Just a though, could be a nice add on.

~Russ

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #46, on September 2nd, 2011, 07:14 AM »
Quote from dirtwill on September 1st, 2011, 08:52 PM
Output Circuit



Put in a 75Ω instead of 25Ω and getting a nice clean signal. Mosfet Running cool



:)

I had another thought to get finer tuning from freq gen side. Replace the frequency gen pot with a smaller rated one and add more capacitors to switch. Just a though, could be a nice add on.
thanks will,

ill be trying this some time when i get there!
also on the i had the same type thought. i did some calculations and it seems that the pot i chose was for a reason... but this circuit it open to change and that's what i posted it for in the development stages so we can change it up!!!

good work will, i can now do some out put testing.

also what about your opto isolator??

can you post a schematic of that part also!!!

thanks!

~Russ

Jeff Nading

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #47, on September 2nd, 2011, 12:38 PM »Last edited on September 2nd, 2011, 12:38 PM by Jeff Nading
Ha Will, I ordered the Hantek DSO-5200A Oscilloscope, can't wait to get it but it's going to take about 4 weeks, oh well, but in the mean time, could you post the complete schematic that you have come up with so I can start again from that point, really appreciate your good work on this, thank you, Jeff.:cool::D

KevinW_EnhancedLiving

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #48, on September 2nd, 2011, 04:43 PM »Last edited on September 2nd, 2011, 04:50 PM by KevinW_EnhancedLiving
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/32418/TOSHIBA/TLP250.html

Russ there is no opto on the circuit. The U10d I show in my schematic is where is connects to your circuit.

I was told opto wasn't really needed with the IRFP, and is just more switching which can degrade signal.... The IRFP Is suppose to Isolate, but then the resistor conects the two sides...?... There Is this TLP250 I was looking at but my parts store didn't have it. It is entitled inverter, so i would think It can replace that inverter I added maybe.

Russ I sent you a IRFP 264 along with your chips :). Im gunna try and order the TLP250.

Jeff my schematic just attached onto Russ. Were still testing so we cant give you any solid data changes are still happening...  Awesome news about the Oscilloscope, you'll love it :)
TLP250 Transistor Inverter PhotoCoupler
http://www.futurlec.com/LEDOpto.shtml

Jeff Nading

RE: The Russtic WFC Frequency Generator. True 50% Duty Frequency Generator W Gating.
« Reply #49, on September 2nd, 2011, 06:20 PM »
Quote from dirtwill on September 2nd, 2011, 04:43 PM
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/32418/TOSHIBA/TLP250.html

Russ there is no opto on the circuit. The U10d I show in my schematic is where is connects to your circuit.

I was told opto wasn't really needed with the IRFP, and is just more switching which can degrade signal.... The IRFP Is suppose to Isolate, but then the resistor conects the two sides...?... There Is this TLP250 I was looking at but my parts store didn't have it. It is entitled inverter, so i would think It can replace that inverter I added maybe.

Russ I sent you a IRFP 264 along with your chips :). Im gunna try and order the TLP250.

Jeff my schematic just attached onto Russ. Were still testing so we cant give you any solid data changes are still happening...  Awesome news about the Oscilloscope, you'll love it :)

TLP250 Transistor Inverter PhotoCoupler

http://www.futurlec.com/LEDOpto.shtml
Thanks Will, i'll start from there, the u10d.